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Archer Attack Speed Basics

Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
edited May 2012 in Archer
-- Basics About Attack Speed --

The attack speed of your archer is the rate of attacks you make over a given interval of time. This speed can be increased due to a number of reasons: equipment, magical enhancements, Spark effects, etc. It should be obvious that the faster the attack speed, the greater the benefit.

Attack speed only applies to regular attacks. Skill attacks have cast and/or channeling time, and thus are timed in an independent way. (Not discussed here.)

Mathematically, attack speed is defined as the "number of attacks per second" or "attacks divided by time". This is the number listed in the weapon description and character menu. That value in the menu is the number of attacks made in 1 second. The attack duration (also called attack interval) is the entire time it takes to execute a single attack, including "cooldown" prior to the next attack. These values are inverses of each other.

1/Attack Speed = Attack Duration
1/Attack Duration = Attack Speed

For example, the attack speed of a regular bow is .6666666~ attacks per second. This means, two thirds of an attack is made during that one second. Thus, a single attack made by an archer has a total duration of 1.50 seconds. These two values are inverses of each other:

1/.6666666~ = 1.50
1/1.50 = .6666666~

-- The "Interval Between Hits -X seconds" Property --

There is a property amongst certain pieces of equipment that can increase your attack speed. This is listed as the "Interval Between Hits -X seconds" property, where X is usually (or always) 0.05 or 0.10. This X value is subtracted from your attack duration. It is not subtracted from your attack speed.

For example, suppose you have a normal bow with an attack speed of 0.67 attacks per second (rounded), and you have a wrist bracer that has "Interval Between Hits -0.05 seconds". In this case, your attack duration is 1.50-0.05=1.45. This results in an attack speed of 1/1.45=0.69 attacks per second.

This property stacks from multiple sources. A sample list of equipment that have this property can be found in Appendix A.

-- The Attack Interval Chart --

0.63 attacks / sec (1.60 secs / attack) Crossbow
0.65 attacks / sec (1.55 secs / attack) ☆Hurricane Spray, ☆Returning Squall
0.67 attacks / sec (1.50 secs / attack) Bow, ☆Windcatcher, ☆Punishing Thunder
0.69 attacks / sec (1.45 secs / attack) ☆Crimson Horn: Soulsmasher
0.71 attacks / sec (1.40 secs / attack) Slingshot, ☆Heaven Shatterer, ☆☆Bow of the Demonhunter
0.74 attacks / sec (1.35 secs / attack) ☆Sinister Shooter
0.77 attacks / sec (1.30 secs / attack) ☆Wind and the Clouds
0.80 attacks / sec (1.25 secs / attack)
0.83 attacks / sec (1.20 secs / attack) Dual Hammers, Dual Axes
0.87 attacks / sec (1.15 secs / attack)
0.91 attacks / sec (1.10 secs / attack) Dual Swords, Dual Blades, Polehammer, Poleaxe
0.95 attacks / sec (1.05 secs / attack)
1.00 attacks / sec (1.00 secs / attack) Poleblade, Club, Pike
1.05 attacks / sec (0.95 secs / attack)
1.11 attacks / sec (0.90 secs / attack) Sword, Blade
1.18 attacks / sec (0.85 secs / attack)
1.25 attacks / sec (0.80 secs / attack) Dagger
1.33 attacks / sec (0.75 secs / attack)
1.43 attacks / sec (0.70 secs / attack) Fist (weapon), Claw
1.54 attacks / sec (0.65 secs / attack)
1.67 attacks / sec (0.60 secs / attack)
1.82 attacks / sec (0.55 secs / attack)
2.00 attacks / sec (0.50 secs / attack)
2.22 attacks / sec (0.45 secs / attack)
2.50 attacks / sec (0.40 secs / attack)
2.86 attacks / sec (0.35 secs / attack)
3.33 attacks / sec (0.30 secs / attack)
4.00 attacks / sec (0.25 secs / attack)
5.00 attacks / sec (0.20 secs / attack) Maximum Attack Speed / Minimum Attack Interval

The chart above summarizes the attack speed and attack duration relationships, and lists corresponding Archer weapons. Simply find your weapon or equivalent (i.e. ☆Swiftwind Crossbow is a Crossbow), and, if you have equipment with the "Interval Between Hits -X seconds" property, go down the table until you reach the correct duration. This will give you the resulting attack speed. (Note: The list is by no means exhaustive.)

For example, suppose you have ☆Windcatcher and ☆Bracers of Blood Moon. Look for ☆Windcatcher, and then go down 0.10 seconds due to the ☆Bracers of Blood Moon benefit, and you'll find a speed of 0.71 attacks / second, which is equivalent to a normal slingshot.

The attack speed values are rounded to nearest 2 decimal places. For example, the attack speed of a Hurricane Spray is 0.64516129 attacks per second, which is rounded to .65 attacks per second. The attack duration values are correct with no rounding error.

-- The "Increase Attack Rate by X%" Property --

Certain abilities grant the property: "Increase Attack Rate by X%", where X is some percentage. This is typically a temporary buff on your character. The exact mathematics behind this ability is not straightforward.

A sample list of sources that give this ability can be found in Appendix A.

Note: It is not entirely known whether or not this ability stacks from multiple sources. It is commonly assumed that it does not stack, and no one has found a case in which it does. Particularly, the bonuses from Demon Spark, Demon Quickshot, and Heaven's Wrath do not stack with each other in any combination.

-- Appendix A: Sources of Speed Increase --

Sources of "Interval Between Hits -X seconds"

The following is a partial list of equipment pieces can increase your attack speed:
- Certain legendary weapons. See "The Chart" below for a list.
- Rank Chest Armors for Archers at level 60 and higher. This includes:
____- ☆Armor of the Assassin (level 60)
____- ☆Avenger's Armor (level 90)
____- ☆Armor of the Demonhunter (level 100)
- Certain legendary wrist bracers. This includes (but may not be limited to):
____- ☆Bracers of Blood Moon (level 60)
____- ☆Spirit Eater's Bracer (level 80)
____- ☆General's Bracers (level 90)
____- ☆Ashura's Bracers (level 99).
- The cape ☆Energetic Robe: Lunar Glade (level 90).
- The tome Love: Up and Down (any level).
- Acquiring two items from the TT99 Light Armor set gives an interval reduction of 0.05. Link.
- Acquiring two items from the TT99 Heavy Armor set gives an interval reduction of 0.05. Link.
- The "Interval Between Hits -X seconds" property can be randomly found on weapons above a certain Grade / Level requirement.
- The "Interval Between Hits -X seconds" property can be randomly found on wrist bracers above a certain Grade / Level requirement.

Sources of "Increase Attack Rate by X%"

The following is a sample of sources that can increase your attack rate by a certain percentage. This list is by no means exhaustive.
- The Archer's Demon Eruption ability increases attack speed by 25%.
- The Demon version of the Archer's Skill, Quickshot, has a chance to grant a 30% increase in attack speed.
- Certain Genie Skills increase attack speed. This includes (but may not be limited to):
____- Wind Shield - Amongst other benefits, this skill increases your attack speed.
____- Relentless Courage - Amongst other benefits, this skill increases your attack speed.
- The Cleric's skill, Heaven's Wrath, increases the attack speed by 20%.
Post edited by Elenacostel - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    -- Personal Thoughts --

    Everything in the above guide is factual, as opposed to opinion. It is all based on math and actual numbers found in the game.

    This portion contains my thoughts, interpretations, and conclusions when it comes to attack speed (and increasing it). Basically, some Archers wonder how useful it is to have -0.05 seconds to your attack speed. Is there really a big difference between 1.50 seconds and 1.45 seconds when making an attack?

    The answer to that depends in which situation you find yourself.

    Bosses

    In this case, it is obvious that you deal more damage over time when fighting a boss. With faster attacks, you output more damage per second. A normal slingshot makes a little over 7 attacks in 10 seconds. A Wind and the Clouds slingshot with a "Interval Between Hits -0.05 seconds" bracer makes 8 attacks in 10 seconds. Simple math.

    Just be careful of stealing aggro.

    PvP & Dueling

    I do not PvP nor Duel, so I cannot give an informed opinion about this.

    Grinding

    I must admit that it took me a while to realize the actual benefit of having faster weapons for grinding. This is best explained with an example.

    Suppose you have a normal bow. This would be an attack speed of .67 attacks / sec (1.50 secs / attack). A typical kill sequence would be:

    Frost Arrow -> Normal -> Normal -> Knockback -> Normal -> Normal -> Normal -> Normal -> Death

    We can ignore skills for the purposes of this discussion, since they are unaffected by attack speed modifiers. Here we have 6 normal attacks made. That would be 9.00 seconds (6 x 1.50 seconds) worth of Normal Attacks made to kill the monster.

    Now, if you add a bracer with the "Interval Between Hits -0.05 seconds" property, then you decrease the total duration of your normal attacks by 0.30 seconds (6 x 0.05 seconds).

    At first glance, that is not a lot of time saved. The total time to kill a monster would also include your skill cast times, finding an enemy, getting to max range, grabbing that Manganese Iron Mine, etc. In reality, you are not really grinding much faster. So what's the benefit?

    The real benefit comes from the fact that more monsters cannot get their attacks off before you kill it. How many times have started at max range, began your combo, and the mob manages to launch that extra attack right as you kill it? With a faster attack speed, the mob can't get off that last annoying attack.

    In other words, for grinding, a faster attack speed has an immediate and tangible effect of you being hit less often. On top of that, you feel the benefit of attacking faster on every normal attack and miss. Properties such as +1% to Critical Rate or Gloom do not benefit you on such a consistent basis.

    This is why Wind and the Clouds is so far superior to Unicorn for grinding. The damage output (per attack) of both weapons is fairly comparable, with Unicorn a little more. However, Wind and the Clouds is 0.20 seconds faster per normal attack. That means, if your attack sequence to kill something includes 5 normal attacks, you do it 1 whole second faster. Does that really make you grind faster? Not really. Does that allow you to kill the Huggy Hare before it can hit you? Quite often, yes, because it needs that extra second to finish making its attack.

    This is a subtle point, but I do believe it is a valid conclusion.
  • Mosz - Heavens TearMosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    rank 4 top -.05
    soulsmasher comes with -.05
  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    rank 4 top -.05
    soulsmasher comes with -.05

    Did I miss something? I have Soulsmasher listed at that speed.
  • Susaku - Heavens TearSusaku - Heavens Tear Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Interval is So Offensive! Especially in PvP!
    Slingshot FTW > Rest
  • KedgeSniper - Lost CityKedgeSniper - Lost City Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    a faster attack speed is more of a defensive measure, not an offensive one.
    b:laugh nothing looks better than a bow >maybe a xbow..

    but a slingshot always makes me giggle

    ima try this!

    Gud work b:victory
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  • Faerune - Lost CityFaerune - Lost City Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Attack speed helps in pvp, but using a sling for that is stupid, slings suck in pvp even with -x attck speed.
  • StormHydra - SanctuaryStormHydra - Sanctuary Posts: 2,221 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Nice guide...
    That annoying "last stand" attack is what makes me hate xbows.
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  • DarkSniper - Lost CityDarkSniper - Lost City Posts: 1,830 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    You might also want to mention another way to increase you attack speed is a Genie skill called Wind Sheild. It increases you attack speed along with other things. When I equiped my bow it had the standard 0.67. When I used the skill it went up to 0.74
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  • Annor - Heavens TearAnnor - Heavens Tear Posts: 330 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Not sure why I havent posted in this thread yet. Anyway, great job on this collection of information, a very interesting piece, especially love the chart ;).

    A couple of recommendations:
    -I would say that interval equipment is BOTH offensive and defensive... it has a very real and immediate effect on damage output -- as an archer though obviously attack and defense are tied.

    -(Picky aethetic thing) you could change the color of text for 3star and mold equipment to match that of the game, and use the star symbol (you can copy/paste it from my wep. guide).
    Meek with words, abrupt with arrows.
  • Sarim - DreamweaverSarim - Dreamweaver Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    This guide is brilliant, never thought of the last stand bit, then again im only low, but ill keep this in mind, I keep on meaning to make a level 2 xbow and sling shot to try out, see whats better, if my computer stops freezing ill keep this guide in mind.
  • Kusider - Heavens TearKusider - Heavens Tear Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    You might also want to mention another way to increase you attack speed is a Genie skill called Wind Sheild. It increases you attack speed along with other things. When I equiped my bow it had the standard 0.67. When I used the skill it went up to 0.74

    Relentless courage is better. Makes my 0.80 attack speed go to 1.05 and higher as I level it. Perhaps worth mentioning there are skills that can help.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Update:

    - Added the nifty ☆ icon in front of appropriate equipment, as per Lady Annor's suggestion. I kept the colors the same b/c I think the colors I chose are closer to what the equipment has in game.

    - Added more content to "The Chart" due to temporary boosts, such as Genie Skills.

    - Added "Appendix: Other Sources of Speed Increase" for temporary boosts, which thus far includes Demonic Eruption and Cleric skill Heaven's Wrath.

    - Added hyperlinks to http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/ for all listed equipment.

    Can anyone verify if the speed increases of the Genie Skills (Relentless Courage, Wind Shield) are fixed amounts, or are percentages?
  • Annor - Heavens TearAnnor - Heavens Tear Posts: 330 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Very nice :)
    Meek with words, abrupt with arrows.
  • Kusider - Heavens TearKusider - Heavens Tear Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    The genie skill attack increases are by percentages. Wind Shield doesn't increase attack speed by level, but Relentless does.

    The ecatomb genie skill page has the descriptions for them. Not sure if they are ALL accurate, but Wind Shield and Relentless are. http://ecatomb.net/genieskill.php
  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    -I would say that interval equipment is BOTH offensive and defensive... it has a very real and immediate effect on damage output -- as an archer though obviously attack and defense are tied.

    Actually, I would like to discuss this.

    Suppose you have two nearly identical archers, Asterelle and Mosz (work with me here). The only difference is that Asterelle is faster by .05 seconds per attack. Against the same monster, they both would use the same number attacks to kill it; the only difference is that Asterelle would possibly not get hit by that last attack.

    So, in practical terms, the only perceivable effect to the player is that the faster one will get hit less.

    To me, more offense means killing something with less attacks. But maybe I have an unusual way of thinking about things, since both you and Sir Susaku disagree with me.
  • Mosz - Heavens TearMosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    psh i have the higher attack speeds, usually means i do get that 1 hit less on me which makes a lot of a difference in the long run grinding, as i was a total grind haor 60-90 (with massive breaks for TT farms helping others ect) but when i did grind with -attack interval gear, i rarely got hit, made boatloads of coin lvled fast and loved it, for an archer in some aspects offense IS defense, invest in yourself (weapon, rings, attack interval) and you wont be getting hurt grind/pve wise

    and from boss experience with like geared archers, when i had more attack interval gear (bracers and chest) id pull aggro off bosses so much more easily, that damage does stack up
  • Ussichu - SanctuaryUssichu - Sanctuary Posts: 429 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Maybe include the rank 8 bow is .71 attack speed xD?
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    I tried adding the two bows and two crossbows that have -Interval, but that unnecessarily cluttered The Chart with extraneous text. I think I will keep it as is.

    If someone actually acquires any of these four weapons, I'll put it up there.

    - ☆☆Punishing Thunder
    - ☆☆Crossbow of Unknown Origin
    - ☆Heaven Shatterer
    - ☆☆Bow of the Demonhunter
  • Annor - Heavens TearAnnor - Heavens Tear Posts: 330 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    The fact is, in your scenario Asterelle killed her opponent faster (sorry Mosz), were that a boss, Asterelle would have been more likely to pull aggro, were it PVP.. Asterelle would have been more likely to kill the player before their charm ticked. The percentage added to DPS (damage per second) by interval gear is very significant.

    In other words... I think what I'm trying to say is... you're amazing Asterelle ^^



    By your model of offense = more damage per hit, slingshot wielders have very poor offense :)
    Meek with words, abrupt with arrows.
  • Fleuri - SanctuaryFleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    So, in practical terms, the only perceivable effect to the player is that the faster one will get hit less.

    I have often though "archer defense" was killing things before they could hit me.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    In other words... I think what I'm trying to say is... you're amazing Asterelle ^^

    I like where this is going XD

    In any case I would say that -interval is an offensive stat but only when you look at the aggregate effect. If I attack 0.05 seconds faster per arrow and a mob takes lets say 7 arrows to kill that means I am saving about a third of a second for every mob. If a quest requires you to kill 100 mobs. I can finish that quest 30 seconds faster than Mosz :)

    Once I am at the end of the quest I don't have to stand around bored waiting 30 seconds for Mosz to catch up. Instead I should be able to kill 2 more mobs in that time. I kill 102 in the time Mosz took to kill 100. Basically I will get 2% more XP, 2% more drops, and probably would have taken less damage.

    For completeness sake you may wish to mention Demon Quickshot has a 50% chance to increase attack rate by 30% for 6 seconds.
    Also unfortunately none of these percentage attack speed increase effects stack with eachother.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Hmm... it appears all of the high-levelers are disagreeing with me. Hopefully, this does not make me appear stubborn and hard-headed. The fact is, I agree that a faster attack is a good thing; I'm merely disagreeing on semantics, really.

    In the scenario I described earlier, both Asterelle and Mosz are attacking the same number of times and dealing the exact same damage to the monster. The only difference is that Asterelle kills it just fast enough so that it cannot attack her, while Mosz's attacks were just slow enough that the monster gets off one attack.

    So:

    After the monster has died, Asterelle's numeric damage output value is equal to Mosz's numeric damage output value. Because these values are the same, I view their respective offensive prowess as equal.

    After the monster has died, Asterelle's numeric damage-taken value is less than Mosz's numeric damage-taken value. Because these values are different, I vew Asterelle's defensive capabilities better than Mosz's.

    This is why I feel faster attack speed is more of a defensive measure (for purposes of grinding). It is a matter of a "perceivable effect" that the player can actually, well, perceive.

    One thing I should clarify: I am limiting this to grinding normal monsters. For Bosses, yes, I totally agree that faster attacks means more offense. For PvP, I know nothing about, so I won't state an opinion about that.

    Now that I think about it, if an Archer kills something faster than a Cleric, despite having used more attacks than the Cleric... argh, I need to think about this some more.
    In any case I would say that -interval is an offensive stat but only when you look at the aggregate effect. If I attack 0.05 seconds faster per arrow and a mob takes lets say 7 arrows to kill that means I am saving about a third of a second for every mob. If a quest requires you to kill 100 mobs. I can finish that quest 30 seconds faster than Mosz :)

    Once I am at the end of the quest I don't have to stand around bored waiting 30 seconds for Mosz to catch up. Instead I should be able to kill 2 more mobs in that time. I kill 102 in the time Mosz took to kill 100. Basically I will get 2% more XP, 2% more drops, and probably would have taken less damage.

    Does it really add up this much? When you take into account things like the following:
    - Moving toward a monster to attack it.
    - Moving away from a monster to get to max range.
    - Mining nearby materials.
    - Chatting with friends / faction.

    ... and then look at the sum total amount of time to kill 100 monsters, does 30 seconds really mean much?

    Although, truthfully, this could be because I am not a very good archer. After launching the initial attack, I can only kill something in 20-30 seconds. 100 monsters would be 2000-3000 seconds, which is anywhere from 33 to 50 minutes. Then, if you add the time to move away / towards monsters, as well as time to mine that convenient Manganese Mine, we'll estimate 45 minutes to 1 hour? 30 seconds does not seem to be a perceivable gain in time for me.
    I like where this is going XD
    For completeness sake you may wish to mention Demon Quickshot has a 50% chance to increase attack rate by 30% for 6 seconds.
    Also unfortunately none of these percentage attack speed increase effects stack with eachother.

    Thanx, I shall add the information about Demon Quickshot.

    Have you verified percentage attack speeds do not stack? If so, do they overwrite each other (like all other buffs), or does the highest take effect?
  • Mosz - Heavens TearMosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    annor shall we go back to fb89 and see who pulls aggro first? interval ftw
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    It is well known heaven's flame overbuffs demon spark (both in attack speed and added damage) and I can confirm that relentless overbuffs demon spark attack speed.

    If you look at everything you do while grinding 100 mobs:
    A) looking for a target
    B) clicking on the mob
    C) attacking and killing the mob
    D) picking up a drop
    E) mining a mat

    The time you spend grinding will be A+B+C+D+E. No matter what you are saving the 30 seconds from that C factor so all things being equal you grind a bit faster. Taken to the extreme if my attack speed was 3 times that of Mosz it is clear I will grind faster despite numerical damage of individual attacks being equal.

    As far as a 30s gain from a single -.05 interval stat being imperceptible, I'm sure it will compare very favorably to a stat like +1% crit or +6 dex.
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  • Mosz - Heavens TearMosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    archer lvl 8x->undines/ultrafins-> have -interval->turret killing->have loot minions

    accompanied with preclicking mobs takes out AB DE, made 80s when i actually grinded a complete joke

    but i will agree in a way attack interval is a dif defensive, taking that 1 less hit overtime of grinding out lvls adds up to a lot of saved charm/pots=lot more coin in pocket for better offensive gear :]
  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    As far as a 30s gain from a single -.05 interval stat being imperceptible, I'm sure it will compare very favorably to a stat like +1% crit or +6 dex.

    Oh, this is a good point. I had not considered comparing the decrease in time grinding to other slight benefits.

    I'd like to thank everyone for the enlightening discussion. I will try to phrase the offense / defense aspect of it in a way that is more accepting for everyone. I think we are all saying the same thing, really.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    But if we imagine Asterelle was using doing 1 damage per hit (sorry Asterrelle, but we will get you a cleric doing ironhearts on you so you can survive my example) and Mosz was doing 10000000 damage per hit and they each fought a monster with 123456 health, after the monster has died, both would have done 123456 damage?

    I believe higher offense would mean you (or whoever) would have delivered their 123456 damage sooner.

    Very good point; it is similar to what I was saying when I compared Clerics and Archers (and thus I had considered changing my mind).
  • XxX_Venm_XxX - Lost CityXxX_Venm_XxX - Lost City Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    this is a guide for PvE...
    Slingshots+PvP=fail b:chuckle
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  • Dutchman - HarshlandsDutchman - Harshlands Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    this is a guide for PvE...
    Slingshots+PvP=fail b:chuckle

    against robes, where you're using mainly normal hits anyway, slings really aren't that bad. heavy armors are a different story though, there you'll want an Xbow since you're skill spamming
  • Cal - HarshlandsCal - Harshlands Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Fist + demon spark + general braces = 2.22 attack/sec b:pleased

    (wanna try relentless with it too)
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