Demon and Sage Skills

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
edited September 2009 in Wizard
I seen a post looking for this info so i decided to post it up. This is a list of all of the sage/demon skills and was done by Taurzo so all credit to him/her.

Pyrogram - Sage wins -

Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 3620.0.

Sage version grants a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi on a successful hit.
Demon version reduces channeling time by 1.2 seconds.

(this effect is not true it reduces T.O. time not channeling according to Pandora)

---

Gush - Sage wins -

Force a powerful Water column to spew up from the ground causing enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3390.0. Has a 95% chance so slow enemy's speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds

Sage version increases chance to slow to 45% and increases duration of slow by one second.
Demon version gives an extra 600 damage.

(600 damage really ain't much further up the lvl chain)

---

Stone Rain - Sage wins -

A gigantic rock slams onto the target inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 200% of weapon damage plus 4804.0

Sage version reduces channeling time by 1.6 seconds.
Demon version gives a 20% chance to stun the enemy for 5 seconds.

(20% is a very minimal probability)

---

Pyroshell -Demon wins -

Use your energy to form a Fire-resistant barrier around you. Adds 120% Fire resistance and increases HP regeneration by 12 per second for 15 minutes.

Sage version always gives 150% Fire resistance increase.
Demon version always increases HP regeneration to 15 points per second

(much more effective earn 900 more life than the sage)

---

Glacial Embrace - Demon wins -

Uses vigorous energy to form a icy barrier around oneself. Adds 120% Water resistance and increases Mana regeneration by 12 points per second for 15 minutes.

Sage version always increases Water resistance to 150%.
Demon version always increases mana regeneration to 15 points per second.

(900 more mana earned than the sage)

---

Stone Barrier - Demon wins -

Focus all of your energy to form an Earthen Barrier around you. Adds 120% Earth resistance and an extra 120% physical defense for 15 minutes.

Sage version always increases Earth resistance to 150%.
Demon version always increases physical defense to 150%

(Demon adds an addition 30% P.Def may not seem like much but it ends up being a better help in the long run)

---

Crown of Flame - Draw -

Place a blazing crown of Fire on the opponent's head. It burns, causing Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 5693.0 over 15 seconds.

Sage version gives 15% bonus Fire damage.
Demon version decreases the duration of the burn.

(15% more fire damage or lessen the seconds of the burn still causing the same damage)
[personally i'm leaning toward Demon on this one also]

---

Hailstorm - Sage wins -

Conjure a hailstorm to rain down on the target causing it and all surrounding enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic attack plus 3160.0 of weapon damage . Has a 33% chance to freeze enemies for 4.0 seconds. Higher Lv. gives wider range

Sage version grants an extra 3160 Water damage to frozen enemies.
Demon version increases chance to freeze to 50%.

(an addition 3160 damage is AMAZING if this is correct but only has a 33% chance of working)

---

Divine Pyrogram - ??? -

Using the divine secrets of Fire cast a searing spell on the enemy to inflict Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 4903.0.

Sage version reduces enemy Fire resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
Demon version reduces channeling time.

(Due to the fact that we don't know how much the channeling time is reduced it's hard to compare; however I'm a fan of reducing channeling time allowing quicker spell casting)

---

Morning Dew - Sage wins -

Recovers target's HP by 1350 points plus 40% of base magic damage.

Sage version gives a 10% chance to fully heal the target.
Demon version also heals the target over time, recovering 200 HP three times at three second intervals.

(I say Sage wins b/c of 2 things: the first being that the chance to fully heal target is AWESOME even though it probably rarely happens; furthermore in battle your opponent can knock away 200HP regen [totaling 600] like nothing so it doesn't seem to really be that effective)

---

Pitfall - Demon wins -

Manipulate the divine force of the Earth and summon a mystic sand swirl underneath the enemy, inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic damage plus 5891.0 over 15 seconds and slowing the enemy's speed by 15%. Has a 15% chance to freeze the target for 3 seconds.

Sage version increases the slow effect to 20%.
Demon version increases freeze chance to 33%

(higher chance of freeze happening; slow only makes your opponent move slower, while freeze prevents them from moving at all)

---

The Dragon's Breath - Sage wins -

The power of the Fire God surrounds your body in a blazing vortex. All enemies 12 meters around you suffer constant Fire damage. Consumes 350 Mana every 3 seconds, inflicting Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 4800.0. Casting will not stop until Mana is depleted or the spell is canceled.

Sage version gives a 20% chance to stun.
Demon version has a 25% chance to gain 500 life.

(Using this spell stun takes the cake; stunning your opponent, making them temporary trapped in this AoE is far greater than gaining an small amount of life )

---

Wellspring Quaff - Sage wins -

A sip of Nature's Wellspring increases your maximum mana capacity. For 30 minutes maximum mana is increased by 60%.

Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack.
Demon version gives a 20% channeling speed increase for 15 seconds

(yes increasing channeling speed is awesome however a 100% magic attack increase is a no-brainer.)

---

Will of the Phoenix - Demon wins -

Launches a burning phoenix to attack all the enemies in a straight line 18.0 meters in front of you and knock them 18.0 meters back. Inflicts Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 5395.0.

Sage version has 1 second reduced cool down.
Demon version has area of effect increased by 50%.

(oh no not a one second cool down! I much rather boost the AoE over the one second cool down)

---

Frostblade - Draw -

Breathe an icy breath onto a squad member's weapon allowing giving their normal attacks extra Water damage equal to 40% of your base magic attack. Lasts 15 minutes

Sage version increases effect duration to 30 minutes.
Demon version always increases bonus damage to 50%.

(This choice strictly is in the eye of the beholder; they both are pretty balanced)

---


Sandstorm - Demon wins -

Project a powerful wave of sand onto a target. Inflicts Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 300% of weapon damage plus 6560.0 and decreases enemy's accuracy by 50% for 10 seconds.

Sage version reduced enemy accuracy by 50%.
Demon version grants an additional 1200 damage.

(I would say that 1200 damage is pretty nice stacked on to this move; furthermore I'm not to sure how the Sage move benefits b/c it already decreases enemy accuracy by 50%)
[if it makes it decrease by 100% then that would be a win for the Sage in my book].

---

Emberstorm -Sage Wins-

Charge for up to 3.2 seconds to attack enemies in a 12 meter radius at the cost of up to 60% of your HP. Inflicts 5000 Fire damage, each HP spent dealing 4.0 damage.

Sage version reduces damage taken by 25%.
Demon version has a 50% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds.

(This is tough because stunning an opponent is awesome for a wizard but reducing damage is also amazing. However, I find the reducing damage taken by 25% to be more beneficial for a wizard then possibly stunning an opponent for 3 seconds. [Sage version works every time while Demon doesn't]. I figure while using this attack you may be already taking damage so reducing damage you cause to yourself is an additional A+)

----

Glacial Snare -Demon Wins-

Launch multiple ice arrows at the enemy to trap them in an ice prison causing Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 6171.0. Has a 95% chance to slow enemy's speed by 80% for 6.0 seconds.

Sage version reduces enemy Water resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
Demon version has reduces channeling time by 2.1 seconds.

If demon really reduces the channeling time and not the T.O. time then I will say that demon trumps sage on this one. Demon's benefit causes this spell to take .4 seconds to cast; you will still have to wait for the regular cool down time.

---

Force of Will -Sage Wins-

Launches an invisible explosion at the target, interrupting it's current channeling, silencing it and making it unable to attack for 5.0 seconds.

Sage version adds the 3 meter area of effect.
Demon version reduces cool down by two seconds.

(Sage wins because a 3 meter added AoE is better than a 2 second cool down. 3 meters adds to the advantage of a wizard. If you silence your opponent for 5 seconds then they have to run 3 meters more that gives a wizard plenty of time to cast another one or two spells. Demon just doesn't compete)

---

Distance Shrink

Uses the divine force of the Earth to instantly teleport 25 meters forward.

Sage version reduces the Chi cost by 10.
Demon version increases teleport distance to 30 meters.

---

Blade Tempest

Focus all of one's vigor to create countless flames that fly towards the enemy, causing the target and all enemies 12.0 meters around the target to suffer both physical and Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 6200.0.

Sage version has a 50% chance cast at the cost of only one Spark.
Demon version has a 50% chance to interrupt enemy channeling.

---

Black Ice Dragon Strike

Focus one's energy to summon a Water dragon that soars up to the sky and smashes onto the target and all surrounding enemies. Target and enemies in a 12.0 meter radius around target suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 500% of weapon damage plus 13955.0. Has a 95% chance to slow enemies by 60% for 8.0 seconds.

Sage version gives a 50% chance to increase magic critical hit rate by 30% for 10 seconds.
Demon version gives a a 20% chance to cast without using mana

---

Mountain's Seize

Use all of one's energy to invoke the spirit of the Mountain. Slams the target and all enemies 12.0 meters around the target dealing Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 500% of weapon damage plus 12149.0. Has a 95% chance to stun all enemies for 6.0 seconds.

Sage version has a 50% chance to cast at a cost of only one Spark.
Demon version extends range by 5 meters.

---

Fire Mastery -Sage Wins-

Increases Fire magic damage by 20%.

Sage version always increases Fire damage by 25%.
Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

---

Water Mastery -Sage Wins-

Increases all Water magic damage by 20%.

Sage version always increases water damage by 25%.
Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

---

Earth Mastery -Sage Wins-

Increases Earth damage by 20%.

Sage version always increases Earth damage by 25%.
Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

Hope this helps and can a mod sticky this my computer wont let me go to ecatomb cause it is bugged. It be handy to have the whole list stickied on the forums.
Post edited by Mizuoni - Dreamweaver on
Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
«1

Comments

  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    The whole "X wins" is kind of pointless, as it's still opinionated.


    Pyro Barrier - who the hell uses it for hp regen? Sage wins.

    Glacial Barrier - toss-up, that 5 extra mp regen doesn't do much for you if you're fighting and using an mp hiero

    Divine Pyro - "More powerful than Divine Pyrogram Level 10. Channel reduced to 2.5 seconds." Sage wins, you don't use it outside of sutra anyway.

    Hailstorm - you'll NEVER use this **** for damage in pvp, 50% paralyze is MUCH better. Demon wins.

    Emberstorm - Demon wins, the stun is much better than a reduction in damage.

    Force of Will - not exactly sure what they mean with the sage one, but a 3m range AOE is a joke, it's so small you won't care/notice. I'd go with demon.

    Distance Shrink - Sage, halved cost = win, IMO. Both are good though

    All the 59 nukes - Sage

    Masteries - toss-up, critical rate is great for pvp, spike damage is important. But higher consistant damage is good too, especially for pve.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    The Dragon's Breath - DEMON wins -
    Sage version gives a 20% chance to stun.
    Demon version has a 25% chance to gain 500 life.

    Used against a group of players, and cycling every 3 seconds. The more players it hits the better your chance to gain life and last longer. Blocking a gate or on the carts...

    Also I'd argue that BIDS is won by Demon on the chance to not loose spark, Allowing a second ulti..though 1:5 isn't great, against a chance to raise 30% of crits 50% of the time....I'd choose Demon.

    Blade Tempest - Sage Wins
    Sage version has a 50% chance cast at the cost of only one Spark.
    Demon version has a 50% chance to interrupt enemy channeling.

    ---

    Black Ice Dragon Strike - Demon wins
    Sage version gives a 50% chance to increase magic critical hit rate by 30% for 10 seconds.
    Demon version gives a a 20% chance to cast without using Spark
  • Pandora - Lost City
    Pandora - Lost City Posts: 454 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    The Dragon's Breath - DEMON wins -
    Sage version gives a 20% chance to stun.
    Demon version has a 25% chance to gain 500 life.

    Used against a group of players, and cycling every 3 seconds. The more players it hits the better your chance to gain life and last longer. Blocking a gate or on the carts...

    Also I'd argue that BIDS is won by Demon on the chance to not loose spark, Allowing a second ulti..though 1:5 isn't great, against a chance to raise 30% of crits 50% of the time....I'd choose Demon.

    Blade Tempest - Sage Wins
    Sage version has a 50% chance cast at the cost of only one Spark.
    Demon version has a 50% chance to interrupt enemy channeling.

    ---

    Black Ice Dragon Strike - Demon wins
    Sage version gives a 50% chance to increase magic critical hit rate by 30% for 10 seconds.
    Demon version gives a a 20% chance to cast without using Spark

    Spoken like a true heaven's tear.

    The demon skill description is for Ice Dragon is wrong. It has a 20% chance to cast without using MANA.

    Dragon's breath Demon is **** because nobody has a hard time SURVIVING in dragon's breath because nobody tries to KILL YOU everyone's just trying to STUN YOU and regaining life won't help you with that. Stunning them before they stun you, however, will.

    Heaven wins on all 59 skills and dragon's breath.

    Though I'd argue force of will is better for Demon.

    ~90 Light Heaven Mage
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Because the bigger your damage, the bigger your epeen.
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Spoken like a true heaven's tear.

    The demon skill description is for Ice Dragon is wrong. It has a 20% chance to cast without using MANA.

    Dragon's breath Demon is **** because nobody has a hard time SURVIVING in dragon's breath because nobody tries to KILL YOU everyone's just trying to STUN YOU and regaining life won't help you with that. Stunning them before they stun you, however, will.

    Heaven wins on all 59 skills and dragon's breath.

    Though I'd argue force of will is better for Demon.

    ~90 Light Heaven Mage

    Fair enough.
    Supposition too as I don't have the spells yet, all we have to work with is the description.

    Though while TW defense is different on each server? Several times DB has been run on the catapults or at the entrances for a period of time. More often than not its a pheonix sent in to break it or archer snipes.

    Too, I can see some 2 man zhens from the Dragons Breath idea. Not sure how useful they'll be at lev 89% but should be fun to play with.
  • Taurzo - Lost City
    Taurzo - Lost City Posts: 170 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I made this guide a little bit ago; glad to see some people appreciate it and that it's getting constructive critism. However a few of my views have changed since I made that guide. Let me just state them so people can understand:

    All 3 Shells belong to Sage. Everyone wants to say that demon wins shells because it earth shell gives 150% p.def. Which is great but the other shells aren't for demon. Thus sage's shell (which gives 120% p.def) wins because the shells are more beneficial. 150% earth,fire,and water resistance and 120% p.def.

    3 Ults - Sage-


    Also sage getting additional chi is a definate plus. Wizards without chi is like a barb without extreme amounts of life.

    In my personal opinion, Sage is better than Demon. However, both have their ups and downs and it really depends on how you play ur MG.

    this is just speculation but I noticed that Sage corresponds with LA builds extremely well as Demon corresponds with Pure builds well.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    ya i think demon/sage was made to balance out your character. Sage adds more mag def and vigor which would help a LA, and demon adds more crits which would help a pure. or you can just be LA and use demon/pure use sage and just be overpoweredb:laugh
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • King_Solomon - Heavens Tear
    King_Solomon - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I seen a post looking for this info so i decided to post it up. This is a list of all of the sage/demon skills and was done by Taurzo so all credit to him/her.

    Pyrogram - Sage wins -

    Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 3620.0.

    Sage version grants a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi on a successful hit.
    Demon version reduces channeling time by 1.2 seconds.

    (this effect is not true it reduces T.O. time not channeling according to Pandora)
    I think both sides have crappy additionals... draw?
    ---

    Gush - Sage wins -

    Force a powerful Water column to spew up from the ground causing enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3390.0. Has a 95% chance so slow enemy's speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds

    Sage version increases chance to slow to 45% and increases duration of slow by one second.
    Demon version gives an extra 600 damage.

    (600 damage really ain't much further up the lvl chain)
    +600dmg is nearly nothing but 45% slow gain IS nothing. demon wins.


    ---

    Stone Rain - Sage wins -

    A gigantic rock slams onto the target inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 200% of weapon damage plus 4804.0

    Sage version reduces channeling time by 1.6 seconds.
    Demon version gives a 20% chance to stun the enemy for 5 seconds.

    (20% is a very minimal probability)

    ---

    Pyroshell -Demon wins -

    Use your energy to form a Fire-resistant barrier around you. Adds 120% Fire resistance and increases HP regeneration by 12 per second for 15 minutes.

    Sage version always gives 150% Fire resistance increase.
    Demon version always increases HP regeneration to 15 points per second

    (much more effective earn 900 more life than the sage)
    who cares about such a tiny hp recovery advantage while you have morning dew for self heal? sage wins.
    ---

    Glacial Embrace - Demon wins -

    Uses vigorous energy to form a icy barrier around oneself. Adds 120% Water resistance and increases Mana regeneration by 12 points per second for 15 minutes.

    Sage version always increases Water resistance to 150%.
    Demon version always increases mana regeneration to 15 points per second.

    (900 more mana earned than the sage)

    ---

    Stone Barrier - Demon wins -

    Focus all of your energy to form an Earthen Barrier around you. Adds 120% Earth resistance and an extra 120% physical defense for 15 minutes.

    Sage version always increases Earth resistance to 150%.
    Demon version always increases physical defense to 150%

    (Demon adds an addition 30% P.Def may not seem like much but it ends up being a better help in the long run)

    ---

    Crown of Flame - Draw -

    Place a blazing crown of Fire on the opponent's head. It burns, causing Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 5693.0 over 15 seconds.

    Sage version gives 15% bonus Fire damage.
    Demon version decreases the duration of the burn.

    (15% more fire damage or lessen the seconds of the burn still causing the same damage)
    [personally i'm leaning toward Demon on this one also]

    ---

    Hailstorm - Sage wins -

    Conjure a hailstorm to rain down on the target causing it and all surrounding enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic attack plus 3160.0 of weapon damage . Has a 33% chance to freeze enemies for 4.0 seconds. Higher Lv. gives wider range

    Sage version grants an extra 3160 Water damage to frozen enemies.
    Demon version increases chance to freeze to 50%.

    (an addition 3160 damage is AMAZING if this is correct but only has a 33% chance of working)
    considering aoe is the same for both, the only appeal to use it is the freezing chance. +3k dmg IF it freezes won't make it more appealing than gush in terms of dmg. demon wins.
    ---

    Divine Pyrogram - ??? -

    Using the divine secrets of Fire cast a searing spell on the enemy to inflict Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 4903.0.

    Sage version reduces enemy Fire resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
    Demon version reduces channeling time.

    (Due to the fact that we don't know how much the channeling time is reduced it's hard to compare; however I'm a fan of reducing channeling time allowing quicker spell casting)
    It's only worth using on metal mobs or with sutra because channel is rather absurd. I'd pick demon but in practise sandstorm and glacial snare and mostly better.
    ---

    Morning Dew - Sage wins -

    Recovers target's HP by 1350 points plus 40% of base magic damage.

    Sage version gives a 10% chance to fully heal the target.
    Demon version also heals the target over time, recovering 200 HP three times at three second intervals.

    (I say Sage wins b/c of 2 things: the first being that the chance to fully heal target is AWESOME even though it probably rarely happens; furthermore in battle your opponent can knock away 200HP regen [totaling 600] like nothing so it doesn't seem to really be that effective)
    10% chance to heal fully is ****. that won't ever save anyone's life. 200x3 over time helps filling the gap its channel leaves. demon wins.
    ---

    Pitfall - Demon wins -

    Manipulate the divine force of the Earth and summon a mystic sand swirl underneath the enemy, inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic damage plus 5891.0 over 15 seconds and slowing the enemy's speed by 15%. Has a 15% chance to freeze the target for 3 seconds.

    Sage version increases the slow effect to 20%.
    Demon version increases freeze chance to 33%

    (higher chance of freeze happening; slow only makes your opponent move slower, while freeze prevents them from moving at all)

    ---

    The Dragon's Breath - Sage wins -

    The power of the Fire God surrounds your body in a blazing vortex. All enemies 12 meters around you suffer constant Fire damage. Consumes 350 Mana every 3 seconds, inflicting Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 4800.0. Casting will not stop until Mana is depleted or the spell is canceled.

    Sage version gives a 20% chance to stun.
    Demon version has a 25% chance to gain 500 life.

    (Using this spell stun takes the cake; stunning your opponent, making them temporary trapped in this AoE is far greater than gaining an small amount of life )
    that's a zhen spell. having it at lvl higher than 1 makes your charm deplete considerably faster. gains are good but I don't think they pay the expenses.
    ---

    Wellspring Quaff - Sage wins -

    A sip of Nature's Wellspring increases your maximum mana capacity. For 30 minutes maximum mana is increased by 60%.

    Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack.
    Demon version gives a 20% channeling speed increase for 15 seconds

    (yes increasing channeling speed is awesome however a 100% magic attack increase is a no-brainer.)
    info is not accurate. the sage version also gives bonus for 15 seconds. if mana increase % info is accurate and there's no gain over lvl10, I'd rather stay at lvl10.
    ---

    Will of the Phoenix - Demon wins -

    Launches a burning phoenix to attack all the enemies in a straight line 18.0 meters in front of you and knock them 18.0 meters back. Inflicts Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 5395.0.

    Sage version has 1 second reduced cool down.
    Demon version has area of effect increased by 50%.

    (oh no not a one second cool down! I much rather boost the AoE over the one second cool down)

    ---

    Frostblade - Draw -

    Breathe an icy breath onto a squad member's weapon allowing giving their normal attacks extra Water damage equal to 40% of your base magic attack. Lasts 15 minutes

    Sage version increases effect duration to 30 minutes.
    Demon version always increases bonus damage to 50%.

    (This choice strictly is in the eye of the beholder; they both are pretty balanced)
    It's useless to our own class so it's hard to give an opinion. I just think an archer would pick 50% bonus...
    ---


    Sandstorm - Demon wins -

    Project a powerful wave of sand onto a target. Inflicts Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 300% of weapon damage plus 6560.0 and decreases enemy's accuracy by 50% for 10 seconds.

    Sage version reduced enemy accuracy by 50%.
    Demon version grants an additional 1200 damage.

    (I would say that 1200 damage is pretty nice stacked on to this move; furthermore I'm not to sure how the Sage move benefits b/c it already decreases enemy accuracy by 50%)
    [if it makes it decrease by 100% then that would be a win for the Sage in my book].

    ---

    Emberstorm -Sage Wins-

    Charge for up to 3.2 seconds to attack enemies in a 12 meter radius at the cost of up to 60% of your HP. Inflicts 5000 Fire damage, each HP spent dealing 4.0 damage.

    Sage version reduces damage taken by 25%.
    Demon version has a 50% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds.

    (This is tough because stunning an opponent is awesome for a wizard but reducing damage is also amazing. However, I find the reducing damage taken by 25% to be more beneficial for a wizard then possibly stunning an opponent for 3 seconds. [Sage version works every time while Demon doesn't]. I figure while using this attack you may be already taking damage so reducing damage you cause to yourself is an additional A+)
    I think both opts are the same in practise. sage makes it leech slightly less hp and demon buys you a little more time before mobs get close. both opts could be better...
    ----

    Glacial Snare -Demon Wins-

    Launch multiple ice arrows at the enemy to trap them in an ice prison causing Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 6171.0. Has a 95% chance to slow enemy's speed by 80% for 6.0 seconds.

    Sage version reduces enemy Water resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
    Demon version has reduces channeling time by 2.1 seconds.

    If demon really reduces the channeling time and not the T.O. time then I will say that demon trumps sage on this one. Demon's benefit causes this spell to take .4 seconds to cast; you will still have to wait for the regular cool down time.
    both gains are useful but such a huge cooldown makes demon additional far less useful in practise. sage wins.

    ---

    Force of Will -Sage Wins-

    Launches an invisible explosion at the target, interrupting it's current channeling, silencing it and making it unable to attack for 5.0 seconds.

    Sage version adds the 3 meter area of effect.
    Demon version reduces cool down by two seconds.

    (Sage wins because a 3 meter added AoE is better than a 2 second cool down. 3 meters adds to the advantage of a wizard. If you silence your opponent for 5 seconds then they have to run 3 meters more that gives a wizard plenty of time to cast another one or two spells. Demon just doesn't compete)
    3m aoe? -2 sec cooldown? 5 sec seal? developers really hate wizards!
    ---

    Distance Shrink

    Uses the divine force of the Earth to instantly teleport 25 meters forward.

    Sage version reduces the Chi cost by 10.
    Demon version increases teleport distance to 30 meters.
    very personal here. certainly a draw.
    ---

    Blade Tempest

    Focus all of one's vigor to create countless flames that fly towards the enemy, causing the target and all enemies 12.0 meters around the target to suffer both physical and Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 6200.0.

    Sage version has a 50% chance cast at the cost of only one Spark.
    Demon version has a 50% chance to interrupt enemy channeling.
    a bit hard to pick 1. channel interruption has limited usefulness but it might help a when your group is rushing to kill an entire squad but I still think the sage version is better overall, for both pvm and pvp.
    ---

    Black Ice Dragon Strike

    Focus one's energy to summon a Water dragon that soars up to the sky and smashes onto the target and all surrounding enemies. Target and enemies in a 12.0 meter radius around target suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 500% of weapon damage plus 13955.0. Has a 95% chance to slow enemies by 60% for 8.0 seconds.

    Sage version gives a 50% chance to increase magic critical hit rate by 30% for 10 seconds.
    Demon version gives a a 20% chance to cast without using mana
    sage black ice dragon owns.
    ---

    Mountain's Seize

    Use all of one's energy to invoke the spirit of the Mountain. Slams the target and all enemies 12.0 meters around the target dealing Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 500% of weapon damage plus 12149.0. Has a 95% chance to stun all enemies for 6.0 seconds.

    Sage version has a 50% chance to cast at a cost of only one Spark.
    Demon version extends range by 5 meters.
    demon mountain's seize is the true definition of nuke. massive dmg with massive range and massive stun.
    ---

    Fire Mastery -Sage Wins-

    Increases Fire magic damage by 20%.

    Sage version always increases Fire damage by 25%.
    Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

    ---

    Water Mastery -Sage Wins-

    Increases all Water magic damage by 20%.

    Sage version always increases water damage by 25%.
    Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

    ---

    Earth Mastery -Sage Wins-

    Increases Earth damage by 20%.

    Sage version always increases Earth damage by 25%.
    Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

    Hope this helps and can a mod sticky this my computer wont let me go to ecatomb cause it is bugged. It be handy to have the whole list stickied on the forums.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    If you're willing to join another online game do NOT join any hosted by K2 NETWORK. Want to know why? Check BBB complaints.
  • Ishmah - Sanctuary
    Ishmah - Sanctuary Posts: 192 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    ...and so the eternal battle between heaven and hell continues.
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Hey, it's pretty interesting to discuss. Better than another "how much vit LA add???" thread.
    All 3 Shells belong to Sage. Everyone wants to say that demon wins shells because it earth shell gives 150% p.def. Which is great but the other shells aren't for demon. Thus sage's shell (which gives 120% p.def) wins because the shells are more beneficial. 150% earth,fire,and water resistance and 120% p.def.
    This doesn't make sense. Just because Pyro/Glacial are the better choices, doesn't mean Earth Barrier is the same. Demon Earth Barrier is still much better than the Sage one. Saying Sage Earth Barrier wins because of two other barriers which are rarely used? Notrly. Besides, when grinding at metal/wood magic mobs, Demon > Sage glacial embrace.
    ya i think demon/sage was made to balance out your character. Sage adds more mag def and vigor which would help a LA, and demon adds more crits which would help a pure. or you can just be LA and use demon/pure use sage and just be overpoweredb:laugh
    No. You don't even make any sense there.
    I think both sides have crappy additionals... draw?
    It is a draw, but neither are bad in any way. Demon Pyro is good for skill spamming, and it allows you to fit more skills into a Spark eruption. Higher DPS = always better. Sage is just a filler mostly, it's nice to throw around in between other skills with a little chance to gain 30 chi instead of 10.
    +600dmg is nearly nothing but 45% slow gain IS nothing. demon wins.
    Gush is mostly used for slow/kiting, or just a weak hit in between for getting someone's HP to the ~60% mark. 600 damage is a joke. Demon doesn't win.
    It's only worth using on metal mobs or with sutra because channel is rather absurd. I'd pick demon but in practise sandstorm and glacial snare and mostly better.
    Divine pyro is strictly an opener or for sutra. In both cases, the -channel wouldn't do anything. Decreasing Fire resistances further is great for follow-ups, though. Considering you'll most likely fire off a pyrogram or two + phoenix if it's a metal mob. Sage wins, easily.
    that's a zhen spell. having it at lvl higher than 1 makes your charm deplete considerably faster. gains are good but I don't think they pay the expenses.
    TW. Not something you'll be using often in there, but it's still something to consider for people who never really zhen train, like me.
    I think both opts are the same in practise. sage makes it leech slightly less hp and demon buys you a little more time before mobs get close. both opts could be better...
    Demon Emberstorm is much better. Less HP taken? You don't let it charge, ever, you're **** if you do. It's not just suicidal, it's also a waste of time. Firing it off ASAP without charging for a 50% stun is WAY better. You could consider it an AOE stun.
    both gains are useful but such a huge cooldown makes demon additional far less useful in practise. sage wins.
    Yes, because -20% water resistance is great for... gush? No. Glacial Snare? It's cooldown **** the debuff, no. Dragon? Sure, but how often is that? Demon Snare wins by far, in pvp you'll want to be able to fire of nukes faster. Makes it all the better if you're sparking.
    demon mountain's seize is the true definition of nuke. massive dmg with massive range and massive stun.
    The AOE range doesn't increase, the casting range does. Which makes it far less useful. Firing it off from further away is nice, but 5m isn't that much. Sage wins.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    i meant,
    if a LA wiz goes demon it makes them overpowered
    if a pure goes sage they are overpowered.
    (demon adds crits and LA already have crits, sage adds more chi which makes a pure wiz deadly)

    srry i have horrible english. my english is like a LA wiz, its a joke until it crits
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Miss_Tika - Lost City
    Miss_Tika - Lost City Posts: 730 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Why are all these lowbies and randoms determining which version is better or not lol

    Anyway, the reality of this entire thread is. You ONLY GET Pyrogram, Gush, Stone Rain at 89. Then at 99, you can get Force of Will, 1 of the 3 Ultis, Glacial Snare, ... uhh missing one. But require 30 Pages of Fate to get ONE random spell. You get 1 page of fate per sucessful cube run at 90+.

    The rest are unobtainable as of now.

    Update the game PWI, kthx
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Why are all these lowbies and randoms determining which version is better or not lol
    some people manage with just common sense
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    both have their benifits. for a wiz, the extra damage and lower channeling from demon is beautiful. but, at the same time, the extra chi and debuffing from sage is just.. ungodly. there's no way to determine which is better. and saying "demon is for crits" is bs, because getting all 3 mastery books WONT be easy.
  • fluwerbas
    fluwerbas Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    To my personal view I think heaven > hell mage too but U missed the right points in some skills I think it's more like this.

    Pyrogram - Sage wins -

    Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 3620.0.

    Sage version grants a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi on a successful hit.
    Demon version reduces channeling time by 1.2 seconds.

    (the 30chi, it's alot specially when ur hunting bosses and u spam this skill, it will go up real quick.....!!!!!!!!!!)
    ---

    Gush - Sage wins -

    Force a powerful Water column to spew up from the ground causing enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3390.0. Has a 95% chance so slow enemy's speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds

    Sage version increases chance to slow to 45% and increases duration of slow by one second.
    Demon version gives an extra 600 damage.

    (longer lasting slow down is better than a whooping 600 damage that u won't even notice)

    ---

    Stone Rain - Demon Wins -

    A gigantic rock slams onto the target inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 200% of weapon damage plus 4804.0

    Sage version reduces channeling time by 1.6 seconds.
    Demon version gives a 20% chance to stun the enemy for 5 seconds.

    (20% is a very minimal probability, but it is better than reduce cast time and the stun time is 5 sec, really long, also the cooldown on this skill is very minimal no way heaven mage better than hell on this one, this is actually one of the best skills the hell mages get!)

    ---

    Pyroshell -sage wins -

    Use your energy to form a Fire-resistant barrier around you. Adds 120% Fire resistance and increases HP regeneration by 12 per second for 15 minutes.

    Sage version always gives 150% Fire resistance increase.
    Demon version always increases HP regeneration to 15 points per second

    (what? HP regen? what's that? i rather get more fire defense to tank fire bosses ;))

    ---

    Glacial Embrace - Sage Wins -

    Uses vigorous energy to form a icy barrier around oneself. Adds 120% Water resistance and increases Mana regeneration by 12 points per second for 15 minutes.

    Sage version always increases Water resistance to 150%.
    Demon version always increases mana regeneration to 15 points per second.

    (ever heard of charm? regen dont matter when u have it, and at l the vl that ur able to obtain this skill im sure u will always have them charms)

    ---

    Stone Barrier - Demon wins -

    Focus all of your energy to form an Earthen Barrier around you. Adds 120% Earth resistance and an extra 120% physical defense for 15 minutes.

    Sage version always increases Earth resistance to 150%.
    Demon version always increases physical defense to 150%

    (Demon adds an addition 30% P.Def Something mages rather lack, so yeah it's good!)

    ---

    Crown of Flame - sage wins -

    Place a blazing crown of Fire on the opponent's head. It burns, causing Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 5693.0 over 15 seconds.

    Sage version gives 15% bonus Fire damage.
    Demon version decreases the duration of the burn.

    [skill sucks may only be used to finish off a low HP mob because of fast casting time, and then i think 15% dmg is better]

    ---

    Hailstorm - demon wins -

    Conjure a hailstorm to rain down on the target causing it and all surrounding enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic attack plus 3160.0 of weapon damage . Has a 33% chance to freeze enemies for 4.0 seconds. Higher Lv. gives wider range

    Sage version grants an extra 3160 Water damage to frozen enemies.
    Demon version increases chance to freeze to 50%.

    (50% chance to AOE paralize, i gotta take it.)

    ---

    Divine Pyrogram - Sage wins-

    Using the divine secrets of Fire cast a searing spell on the enemy to inflict Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 4903.0.

    Sage version reduces enemy Fire resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
    Demon version reduces channeling time.

    (Channeling time decrease is minimal, 20% less fire defense for ur enemy is kool)

    ---

    Morning Dew - Sage wins -

    Recovers target's HP by 1350 points plus 40% of base magic damage.

    Sage version gives a 10% chance to fully heal the target.
    Demon version also heals the target over time, recovering 200 HP three times at three second intervals.

    (I say Sage wins because 10% chance to heal no matter how much HP, could insa heal a 20K+ barb if lucky.)

    ---

    Pitfall - Demon wins -

    Manipulate the divine force of the Earth and summon a mystic sand swirl underneath the enemy, inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic damage plus 5891.0 over 15 seconds and slowing the enemy's speed by 15%. Has a 15% chance to freeze the target for 3 seconds.

    Sage version increases the slow effect to 20%.
    Demon version increases freeze chance to 33%

    (higher chance of freezeis better, noone uses this skill because of the slowing effect because it doesnt stack with gush)

    ---

    The Dragon's Breath - Sage wins -

    The power of the Fire God surrounds your body in a blazing vortex. All enemies 12 meters around you suffer constant Fire damage. Consumes 350 Mana every 3 seconds, inflicting Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 4800.0. Casting will not stop until Mana is depleted or the spell is canceled.

    Sage version gives a 20% chance to stun.
    Demon version has a 25% chance to gain 500 life.

    ( AOE stunning your opponents or mobs is better than stealing little life. )

    ---

    Wellspring Quaff - Sage wins -

    A sip of Nature's Wellspring increases your maximum mana capacity. For 30 minutes maximum mana is increased by 60%.

    Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack.
    Demon version gives a 20% channeling speed increase for 15 seconds

    (if the increase channel speed was constant the it would be cool but it only lasts 15 secs, too little for a 2 sparks skill so I take then 100% bonus to magic attack, make me deal more dmg!.)

    ---

    Will of the Phoenix - Demon wins -

    Launches a burning phoenix to attack all the enemies in a straight line 18.0 meters in front of you and knock them 18.0 meters back. Inflicts Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 5395.0.

    Sage version has 1 second reduced cool down.
    Demon version has area of effect increased by 50%.

    (i take the boost to the AoE over the one second cool down)

    ---

    Frostblade - Demons wins-

    Breathe an icy breath onto a squad member's weapon allowing giving their normal attacks extra Water damage equal to 40% of your base magic attack. Lasts 15 minutes

    Sage version increases effect duration to 30 minutes.
    Demon version always increases bonus damage to 50%.

    (10% more wep dmg added to attack of my mates is cool)

    ---


    Sandstorm - Demon wins -

    Project a powerful wave of sand onto a target. Inflicts Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 300% of weapon damage plus 6560.0 and decreases enemy's accuracy by 50% for 10 seconds.

    Sage version reduced enemy accuracy by 50%.
    Demon version grants an additional 1200 damage.

    (1200 damage dont make a difference so go for the accuracy 50% make ppl miss, more)

    ---

    Emberstorm -Demon Wins-

    Charge for up to 3.2 seconds to attack enemies in a 12 meter radius at the cost of up to 60% of your HP. Inflicts 5000 Fire damage, each HP spent dealing 4.0 damage.

    Sage version reduces damage taken by 25%.
    Demon version has a 50% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds.

    (Instant AOE stun to those who get close to u at cost of 5%~10% HP not really sure, i'd take it.)

    ----

    Glacial Snare -Demon Wins-

    Launch multiple ice arrows at the enemy to trap them in an ice prison causing Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 6171.0. Has a 95% chance to slow enemy's speed by 80% for 6.0 seconds.

    Sage version reduces enemy Water resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
    Demon version has reduces channeling time by 2.1 seconds.

    I like to cast this skill quick when meele gets close to me so i snare them allowing to kite better so faster casting is better

    ---

    Force of Will -Sage Wins-

    Launches an invisible explosion at the target, interrupting it's current channeling, silencing it and making it unable to attack for 5.0 seconds.

    Sage version adds the 3 meter area of effect.
    Demon version reduces cool down by two seconds.

    (Sage wins 3 meter AOE is small but when meele mob is close to u it seal them all.)

    ---

    Distance Shrink -demon wins-

    Uses the divine force of the Earth to instantly teleport 25 meters forward.

    Sage version reduces the Chi cost by 10.
    Demon version increases teleport distance to 30 meters.

    (demon hands down, )
    ---

    Blade Tempest -Sage wins-

    Focus all of one's vigor to create countless flames that fly towards the enemy, causing the target and all enemies 12.0 meters around the target to suffer both physical and Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 6200.0.

    Sage version has a 50% chance cast at the cost of only one Spark.
    Demon version has a 50% chance to interrupt enemy channeling.

    (sage version better when it cost one spark u keep more spark that way u can cast another 59 skill)
    ---

    Black Ice Dragon Strike -Sage wins-

    Focus one's energy to summon a Water dragon that soars up to the sky and smashes onto the target and all surrounding enemies. Target and enemies in a 12.0 meter radius around target suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 500% of weapon damage plus 13955.0. Has a 95% chance to slow enemies by 60% for 8.0 seconds.

    Sage version gives a 50% chance to increase magic critical hit rate by 30% for 10 seconds.
    Demon version gives a a 20% chance to cast without using mana

    ( 30% increase in crits for 10 secs what? This is the best sage mage skill, it makes u crit if u can eat to spark pot then u'd fury burst after using this skill giving u a whopping extra 30% chance to crit while burst is game breaking, i asure u that because when mage crit, ppl die or hieros tick)

    ---

    Mountain's Seize -Sage wins-

    Use all of one's energy to invoke the spirit of the Mountain. Slams the target and all enemies 12.0 meters around the target dealing Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 500% of weapon damage plus 12149.0. Has a 95% chance to stun all enemies for 6.0 seconds.

    Sage version has a 50% chance to cast at a cost of only one Spark.
    Demon version extends range by 5 meters.

    ( same reason as Blade Tempest)
    ---

    Fire Mastery -Sage Wins-

    Increases Fire magic damage by 20%.

    Sage version always increases Fire damage by 25%.
    Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

    ---

    Water Mastery -Sage Wins-

    Increases all Water magic damage by 20%.

    Sage version always increases water damage by 25%.
    Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

    ---

    Earth Mastery -Sage Wins-

    Increases Earth damage by 20%.

    Sage version always increases Earth damage by 25%.
    Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

    Sage wins in all masteries ebcause more dmg is better than a whoopiing 1% crit chance.

    That's how its done!
  • Rinnve - Lost City
    Rinnve - Lost City Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    both have their benifits. for a wiz, the extra damage and lower channeling from demon is beautiful
    Wait-wait-wait. What is this thing about lower channeling? Demon spark eruption "increase attack rate by 25%" (http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php), does it decreases channeling as well? 0_0
    --
    PWonline.ru, Sirius: Иней, 70 cleric - off.
    PWI, Lost City: Rinnve, 7X wiz (frozen);
    Allods Online, Раскол: Риннве, 2X occultist
  • Pandora - Lost City
    Pandora - Lost City Posts: 454 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Stop saying divine pyrogram (and the other resistance debuff skills) is better for sage.


    THE RESISTANCE DEBUFF DOESN'T STACK WITH UNDINE STRIKE.

    Demon wins in ALL of those because they're ****ING USELESS as Sage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Because the bigger your damage, the bigger your epeen.
  • Amour - Lost City
    Amour - Lost City Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    GG.
    Undine ftw :3
    "Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Wait-wait-wait. What is this thing about lower channeling? Demon spark eruption "increase attack rate by 25%" (http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php), does it decreases channeling as well? 0_0

    yeah it does. combined with demon skills that already have lower channeling and you hit like you have sutra running. and, believe it or not, when people see that demon spark, they don't always stun you out of it; i've seen my friend use it and people just stand there. probably scared the **** out of them.
  • Hidden - Lost City
    Hidden - Lost City Posts: 338 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    and, believe it or not, when people see that demon spark, they don't always stun you out of it; i've seen my friend use it and people just stand there. probably scared the **** out of them.

    either that, or its because u rolled a pve server where u got a bunch of blue names running around that have nothing to fear from demon spark.
  • Orenji - Heavens Tear
    Orenji - Heavens Tear Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Stop saying divine pyrogram (and the other resistance debuff skills) is better for sage.


    THE RESISTANCE DEBUFF DOESN'T STACK WITH UNDINE STRIKE.

    Demon wins in ALL of those because they're ****ING USELESS as Sage.

    one thing im curious about though is the demon version of gush and sandstorm, description says it adds additional 600 dmg on gush and additional 1200 damage on sandstorm so does:
    Gush 3390 become 3390+600 =3990 hence

    Force a powerful Water column to spew up from the ground causing enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3990.0. Has a 95% chance so slow enemy's speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds.

    instead of just 600 extra dmg being seen on target when spell is used.
    im not 89 yet so idk and iv seen different opinions but im not sure which is right.
  • Haiz - Lost City
    Haiz - Lost City Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited April 2009
  • Amour - Lost City
    Amour - Lost City Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    It's always going to be preference. Always always always. Both are really viable. People's views on what's better are always going to be different and these debates are a little pointless.
    "Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Miss_Tika - Lost City
    Miss_Tika - Lost City Posts: 730 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Having lots of CHIIIIIIIII is my preference b:cute

    And cuz the only spells you can really obtain, sage is better in all <_<
  • Haiz - Lost City
    Haiz - Lost City Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited April 2009

    I don't think you guys understand my argument. That book in my inventory wins everything. You can't say you don't want something like that.
  • Miss_Tika - Lost City
    Miss_Tika - Lost City Posts: 730 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I don't think you guys understand my argument. That book in my inventory wins everything. You can't say you don't want something like that.

    Hopefully in 15 more pages b:thanks
  • drag0nball
    drag0nball Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I don't think you guys understand my argument. That book in my inventory wins everything. You can't say you don't want something like that.

    Well what to say...50% to get 30%..if we calculate better than 30% : 2 = 15%
    So if we use Dragon Strike we have 15% chance to do critical after that (because the 50% chance for 30% crit = 15% crit)
    but I am asking...who will survive a Dragon Strike now???really.. You do the dragon strike and no opponent to fight with to use the critical chance...unless its TW.

    I've read somewhere that Dragon strika has 80% critical chance?? It can be unbelievable...I think thats not true.


    And for mountain Size the 5 meter range is quite much..already has 30 meter at sage/demon and if get + 5 meter thats 35 meters...quite far if you sneak ppl. Still in TW its no use at all...

    But if we are talking with chi..what gives chi really now??? Only the Pyrogram and only 20% chance...and the distance shrink looseonly 10 chi.. Its not that much difference in chi... unless u use 50 chi in 30 secs or 1 minute...
    And only the 2 lvl 59 skills has chance to waste 1 spark... So sage really can get chi only by adding chi skill to themselves... So still sage does not have unlimited chi.
    Not tomention we are fighting against the same skill. And theoreticaly may be true that oneskill is bette rthan the otehr..but practicly can be different. There are combos which way the "weaker" skill may be better combining with other skills. So there are hundreds of choices.
  • Amour - Lost City
    Amour - Lost City Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Wtf.
    TW is where Mountain's Sieze shines...
    frankly I'll be using it over dragon till 99 because it only does 1200 less raw damage, but stuns in a HUGE aoe for 6 seconds.

    Your math is pretty bad, because if it procs then you have a 32+% chance to crit, where as if it doesn't you have your base chance to crit. Trying to average out the crit doesn't work for a spell that costs 2 sparks and has a 30 second cooldown...

    Sage pyrogram is something you'll be spamming because it gains a huge damage boost after getting the book for it. Pyrogram is already an amazing chi builder, 15 chi per cast, and since it's really spammable 20% for 30 extra chi can be very beneficial.

    Distance shrink is VERY spammable at level 10, so it does add up. All of these things add up to give heaven mages a LOT more chi. A mage is only as good as how many sparks he has :3
    "Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • drag0nball
    drag0nball Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I was the kind of person who believes that faster hits/skills/spells/whatever are better.
    Well for the critical I only calculated without the critical you have. I don't know how good can be the 20% chance in anything... Just like the 20% chance to get 30 chi is just as low rate as the demon stone rain for 20% chance to stun for 5 seconds. So you really cannot put your faith in that 20% chance... specaially if it is about me. because this is only luck and luck was very rarely on my side so far...
    Of course the distance shrink is spammabel but I dont know how much need to use it. Against some classes don't need to use it at all.
    And a duel or a PVP/PK rarely lasts more than 30 secs so you will use 2-3 times the distance shrink. However this is arguable...for some ppl 10 chi save is better than +5 meter and vice versa.

    I say Mountain Size shines even outside of the TW. Because that skill has the lowest casting time so with sutra is great and has high chance to use 4 spells instead of 3.

    Still in TW I always believe that sage Wizard is stronger than demon wizard and I dare to say it is the strongest than any class at any path (except the glitched phoenix where the fixing can wait forever).
    But I think where sage wizard truly gains the chi is with the 50 chi each 30 secs or 1 minute and 59 skill with saving 1 spark. And 50% chance to save 1 spark is far greater than 20% to get 30 chi... And even is with more chi. And I am talking about lvl 100...you wont use pyrgram anymore because you have the better skilled at lvl 11 too and so its not that worth it if yo have far stronger spells upgraded to lvl 11.
    In a fair fight like dueling or 1v1 fight Demon may be better.
    And I have very very and very very little faith in guilds because most of people are selfish and let me say "jerks" and even a guild is instable so I don't think that I will be selfless to do what is teh best for the guild...
    Specially if they never help me...Besides I rather like to watch in the eye of the enemy and to fight a fair fight in 1v1 than to sneak-stealth-attack.
    And maybe Demon is built for me because I don't like TW-s...
    And I believe that most of lvl 79 skills are much effective in duels and Pvp. In TW only for the most dangerous and most important ppl is worth to use it.
  • Amour - Lost City
    Amour - Lost City Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Yeah, but sutra sieze is unrealistic till 89+
    You don't like territory war? Why the heck are you playing a mage then. It's like the only place they're good.
    "Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    10 chi Distance Shrink makes building chi while kiting much easier. And it's a skill you use often, whether it's following, avoiding or kiting.


    And maybe pyrogram will end up a bit useless eventually, but the way things are now, with most books are to obtain, it'll be one of your main skills for a long time, especially if you go demon, where gush/pyro spamming will give you a good damage output.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.