We need Democracy

MissEbil - Heavens Tear

This is a calm call to the GMs and Moderators to please listen to the players.
We are your base, we pay your wages, we keep the game alive and yet it looks to us that you are ignoring our complaints and siding with the minority that are spoiling our gaming experience.

To all that agree with me, please sign my petition to get anyone who constantly KSes and bends the ToS rules. This is mentioning NO names, NO individuals or Factions because this goes for anyone who constantly bends/breaks minor rules and prevents us from enjoying the game like we should.

Peace and democracy for all! b:victory

SIGN HERE!

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

With any such petition you must mention names to get people emotionally involved. And it’s that raw emotion that’ll form the lynch mob. With that being said… lets all pk enrage.

Daialura - Heavens Tear

I'm sorry, I had to chuckle to myself when juxtaposing this statement:

This is mentioning NO names, NO individuals or Factions

with the URL link

www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stopenragenow

Maybe the petition should have been named "stopksingnow", but it's hard for me (personally) to take it seriously when the hype is that it's "not about any faction" and yet the faction name is in the name of the petition...

Just as a more extreme analogy, if I created a petition whos message was "Flying in a plane is dangerous" and titled the petition "i-hate-the-jerks-at-boeing," it might have the same effect.

Not getting into the who shoulds/who shouldn'ts. It's just my opinion based on my observation and mine alone.

Calibix - Heavens Tear

MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is a calm call to the GMs and Moderators to please listen to the players.
We are your base, we pay your wages, we keep the game alive and yet it looks to us that you are ignoring our complaints and siding with the minority that are spoiling our gaming experience.

To all that agree with me, please sign my petition to get anyone who constantly KSes and bends the ToS rules. This is mentioning NO names, NO individuals or Factions because this goes for anyone who constantly bends/breaks minor rules and prevents us from enjoying the game like we should.

Peace and democracy for all! b:victory

SIGN HERE!

FFS, if your talking about oracles, how many times must it be said that if the supposed "KS'er" has an oracle, he has every right to the mob as you. You can't kill it before him, too bad. If he sits there and kills every spawn until he's out of oracles, too bad for you. Go do something else, oracles aren't the only thing to do nowadays.

And what bending of ToS? Be more specific.

I've got a bunch of oracles, and I'm not gonna wait in line behind people that take forever to kill the boss. I'm gonna kill the first one that spawns when I'm there, then be about my merry way. If that's a problem for you, too bad because its totally within my rights to do so.

Saitada - Sanctuary

Democracy is an illusion pulled over the sheeples eyes to make them think they are free.

~S

Defected - Heavens Tear

I signed it.

Calibix - Heavens Tear

Defected - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I signed it.

That literally made me laugh out loud.

MissEbil - Heavens Tear

These people make more money then I have seen in game every day, the buy up all the oracles in game, so yeah they do have them, but its UNFAIR of the GMs to be agreeing that lower level people are worth less than 80+s when we put time and effort in too.

EDIT: All names removed.

Defected - Heavens Tear

Why am I the only name on this petition?

Calibix - Heavens Tear

MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

These people make more money then I have seen in game every day, the buy up all the oracles in game, so yeah they do have them, but its UNFAIR of the GMs to be agreeing that lower level people are worth less than 80+s when we put time and effort in too.

EDIT: All names removed.

I'm not saying that low levels are unimportant. The point is if I'm lvl 9x and want to do an oracle, I'm gonna do it and not wait in line. And its not ks'n. I have as much right to the mob as you.

When did a GM agree that lower levels are worth less than the higher levels? We all use the same cash shop.

The 80+'s have put in significantly more time and effort.

MMO's are unfair to the lower level characters. EVERY MMO. Its a fact of the game system, get used to it.

Hisui - Heavens Tear

Hey lets all vote for cash shop being free yeyeye democracy~!

MissEbil - Heavens Tear

Calibix - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not saying that low levels are unimportant. The point is if I'm lvl 9x and want to do an oracle, I'm gonna do it and not wait in line. And its not ks'n. I have as much right to the mob as you.

When did a GM agree that lower levels are worth less than the higher levels? We all use the same cash shop.

The 80+'s have put in significantly more time and effort.

MMO's are unfair to the lower level characters. EVERY MMO. Its a fact of the game system, get used to it.

Yeah I have the right, but in FFA I have no CHANCE at getting my 5 kills when the likes of you selfish people stand there killing the boss 90 times.
What happens if I want to kill my 5 and be on my merry way? THAT would make it a LOT quicker, instead I have to wait for a few SELFISH FOOLS to kill all the ones they want, cos they have money enough to buy 3000 oracles and I have a grand total of 12 because I don't waste all my RL money on PWI and lack the in-game coin that people can throw away like a used kleenex when you're a high level and you spend all your mommy's / taxpayer's money on PWI.
P.S. GMs the event idea was great. Unfortunately, theory doesn't include the selfish nature of people.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

cos they have money enough to buy 3000 oracles and I have a grand total of 12 because I don't waste all my RL money on PWI

LOL... from the looks of it, its THEY who are paying the GM's wages... NOT YOU.

Devarsi - Sanctuary

just wait until the rush dies down.. the exp doesn't get any less..

MissEbil - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

LOL... from the looks of it, its THEY who are paying the GM's wages... NOT YOU.

I have used the cash shop, I have paid the money I can afford to. Just because I can't afford to buy my way to lvl 80 in a week makes me less of a valued customer? You, my dear, do not know business.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

I'm "partially" against it. Doing everything customers like may lead to illegal actions.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have used the cash shop, I have paid the money I can afford to. Just because I can't afford to buy my way to lvl 80 in a week makes me less of a valued customer? You, my dear, do not know business.

We all (or most) use the cash shop. But they are those out there that spend more in a week then I spend since level 1. And I am pretty sure the GMs rather keep them as a customer then... say me. What you spend is pocket change for the GMs. Those who have the gold makes the rules... get use to it.

MissEbil - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We all (or most) use the cash shop. But they are those out there that spend more in a week then I spend since level 1. And I am pretty sure the GMs rather keep them as a customer then... say me. What you spend is pocket change for the GMs. Those who have the gold makes the rules... get use to it.

But 100 people that spend a little = more spent than one person spending a lot. Simple maths.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But 100 people that spend a little = more spent than one person spending a lot. Simple maths.

Its actually not simple math, only seems that way. For example, 100 people spend the same amount as a single person. That single person only uses 1 unit of server bandwidth, but on the other hand that 100 people uses 100 units of bandwidth. It’s the same reason, that given normal market conditions, high end stores outperform super cheap stores. The higher end stores are able to extract more income from less operation, even though the super cheap stores have more foot traffic/customers.

PS. I know there are people who spend over 100x of what I spent.

MissEbil - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Its actually not simple math, only seems that way. For example, 100 people spend the same amount as a single person. That single person only uses 1 unit of server bandwidth, but on the other hand that 100 people uses 100 units of bandwidth. It

MissEbil - Heavens Tear

But why should I be actively IGNORED or PUNISHED for not spending so much money?
Answer: Because F2P Games are NOT what they say on the tin.

Laters, I'm going to take solace in chocolate and Dreamweaver.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But why should I be actively IGNORED or PUNISHED for not spending so much money?
Answer: Because F2P Games are NOT what they say on the tin.

Laters, I'm going to take solace in chocolate and Dreamweaver.

The same reason that richer people (in real life) will always get preference over you.

Rillien - Heavens Tear

What I don't understand is all the complaining when the fact is that the bosses are here to stay. Always have been. Why are people so impatient to get it done? If you can't pk the kser, then wait until it all dies down. The high levels with plenty of oracles had to put in lots of time to get to the point they're at. So...put in your time. A little bit of patience goes a long way.

I'm not supporting griefing, or a sense of entitlement from high levels...but seriously, for all this talk about how childish the ksers are, it's pretty childish to get so worked up over something that can easily be rectified with a little calmness and patience.

Calibix - Heavens Tear

MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah I have the right, but in FFA I have no CHANCE at getting my 5 kills when the likes of you selfish people stand there killing the boss 90 times.
What happens if I want to kill my 5 and be on my merry way? THAT would make it a LOT quicker, instead I have to wait for a few SELFISH FOOLS to kill all the ones they want, cos they have money enough to buy 3000 oracles and I have a grand total of 12 because I don't waste all my RL money on PWI and lack the in-game coin that people can throw away like a used kleenex when you're a high level and you spend all your mommy's / taxpayer's money on PWI.
P.S. GMs the event idea was great. Unfortunately, theory doesn't include the selfish nature of people.

Ok, so many things wrong with this post.

First, it would not be quicker for you to kill your 5 and be on your way. Your lower level and take longer to kill.

Second, I said I kill one mob at a time and leave. I don't have the patience to sit there and be heckled, be called a KS'er, for killing a mob I have every right to kill.

Third, if someone wants to spend xx amount of dollars and get 3k oracles, good for them. If they got the money, who are you to say how they should spend it.

Fourth, high levels does not equal lots of coins. In fact, the higher level you are the harder it is to make coin. Yes this sounds odd. But the fact is the cost of gears/repairs/charms/teleports/angels/scrolls etc etc far outweighs the coins recieved from drops. Most people who are rich, whether high level or not are very active catshoppers.

Fifth, I'm a full-time college student who works full-time. I spend my own money. I find time to play in a very busy life. All the more reason for me to kill a mob before a whiny punk like you.

And yes, this event did kick ****.

Lessie - Lost City

Where is the rule that says a line must be made to get oracle bosses?
You expect lvl 9xs to stand behind lvl 3xs in a line ? b:laugh

Devarsi - Sanctuary

of course.. its only right .. i mean the fact that the 9X can kill 2 in the time the 3X kills one means nothing.. neither does the fact that these oracles don't expire.. its much more fun to whine and complain and make up silly rules like lines .. o.O

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear

MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah I have the right, but in FFA I have no CHANCE at getting my 5 kills when the likes of you selfish people stand there killing the boss 90 times.
What happens if I want to kill my 5 and be on my merry way? THAT would make it a LOT quicker, instead I have to wait for a few SELFISH FOOLS to kill all the ones they want, cos they have money enough to buy 3000 oracles and I have a grand total of 12 because I don't waste all my RL money on PWI and lack the in-game coin that people can throw away like a used kleenex when you're a high level and you spend all your mommy's / taxpayer's money on PWI.
P.S. GMs the event idea was great. Unfortunately, theory doesn't include the selfish nature of people.

It just sounds like you want YOURS done and you don't actually give 2 hoots about anyone elses,so i'm pretty sure if you could do the damage any high lvl can do to those oracle bosses,you wouldn't be standing in line neither.

I beg to differ btw,the event was ill thought out.

Granrey - Sanctuary

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

Where is the rule that says a line must be made to get oracle bosses?
You expect lvl 9xs to stand behind lvl 3xs in a line ? b:laugh

Look there is no rule saying such a thing. However, there are other rules to get you.

I just don't have the links anymore since this was debated weeks ago and the GM gave their opinions plus closing both treads after stating their opinions.

Acording to them, there is a different between ksing a bit and ksing a lot and it depends what are you ksing and when, as well the affected players.

Bottom line is that it does not matter much what your interpretation of the rules. It's what GM considered is too much as per their interpretation/investigation and honestly there is no other way, since this is a matter of interpretation more than anything.

Daialura - Heavens Tear

This whole situation is so odd...
On the one hand, you have people wanting to hold other players to their own social ideal (waiting in line)...
On the other hand, you have people wanting to hold other players to their own social ideal (not waiting in line)...

So how do you resolve what seems inevitably to be an unending debate between diametrically opposite perspectives?

I can see the QQ responses coming down the street. That's really too easy a response though and doesn't serve to get at the root of the issue which is: Right now, both sides are right.

Both sides are right because of the following:
1. The game's rules don't deal with the subject specifically enough which leaves it open to interpretation.
2. Enforcement of griefing instances has been erratic since determining who has oracles and who doesn't isn't possible for non-GMs
3. The game system doesn't lock out the mob from those players who don't have the quest item.

So with no rule, and no system of enforcement, and no system of prevention, how can either side say the other is incorrect?

Really though, PWI isn't a nation with a government ruling by the voice of the people, it's a private enterprise whos rules and regulations are decided solely at the discretion of PWI...

Additionally, morality is relative to the culture we're brought up in. Not everyone shares the same beliefs or sensibilities. That someone doesn't find any issue cutting in line may not mean they're missing a conscience, but perhaps just that theirs is operating under a different set of rules.

From my perspective, to the people complaining that others are ripping on their faction, well that's a legitimate argument since many in that faction have been very helpful to me and to others I've seen. The actions of a few anything doesn't create a rule for the rest of them.

However, you must realize that the appearance of endorsement of those actions will inevitably engender these kinds of feelings toward the whole group especially since most of the ones who feel they're being unfairly treated aren't able to retaliate in any effective manner in game. They ONLY have this forum for rebuttal.

For those complaining that you shouldn't have to wait in line with the rest to get the boss. Yes you have just as much right to the mob but well... It's rude. As rude as someone cutting in line at the theater or cutting someone off on the freeway. You wouldn't want to be in line at the salad bar and have someone swoop in and steal the bowl of mushrooms just as you were going to get some, would you? The one doing it would likely get kicked out of the restaurant (Or banned as it were).

For those complaining that people are KSing oracle bosses over and over, well you're right, it's rude. But until PWI officially makes it against the rules, they're free to do so. Just like someone taking any action that isn't a crime in a private business... The business owners get to decide whether to throw them out or allow it to continue. From the back and forth nature of the penalties, I'd say that PWI really hasn't made up their minds about what they think about it.

So... The people in game can say QQing in game and the people bashing them on the forum because of it can say QQing on the forum but it really doesn't help anybody by doing that.

Until PWI decides how to view the action, make a rule about it, and set up systems of enforcement, the anarchy will continue.

In the mean time, I'm steering clear of the oracle bosses and focusing on CS, WQ, DQ, normal quests, EXP scroll grinding and the myriad other fun in-game features of PWI.

,( ^_^)/

XPapewaiox - Lost City

Aw, another self-important person from a tea party server demanding everything be done their way.

The only way your little petition would work is with a dictatorial interpretation of the ToS, or it would become a popularity contest (where-as now it is a contest of strength, much better in a MMO)

This would erely increase corruption and unfair behavior. Get over the fact that other people have the same quests you do. There is NOTHING int he TOS that states they have to wait in line to do their quests. Try to grow up, or move to a PK server where cooperation is enforced, and not required.

TigerLily - Lost City

MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is a calm call to the GMs and Moderators to please listen to the players.
We are your base, we pay your wages, we keep the game alive and yet it looks to us that you are ignoring our complaints and siding with the minority that are spoiling our gaming experience.

To all that agree with me, please sign my petition to get anyone who constantly KSes and bends the ToS rules. This is mentioning NO names, NO individuals or Factions because this goes for anyone who constantly bends/breaks minor rules and prevents us from enjoying the game like we should.

Peace and democracy for all! b:victory

SIGN HERE!

You seriously took the time to make a petition b/c of a 1 week event in a videogame b:shocked

An event that btw is OVER which means the line to oracle bosses are close to 0 now lol

b:bye crazy people b:bye