Thunderball^^is it really worthless?

Corwin - Harshlands

Okay I only have this at lvl 1 but I am interested in hearing from someone who has actually maxxed it to get the true stats.

I hear alot of **** about this skill and it seems like everyone is hating on it due to the importance of leveling other skills as a priority. If you imagine the role of a cleric I believe this skill shows true potential. Lets look at my numbers:

I plume shot for ~ 530 dmg
I whirlwind for ~ 475 dmg
Thunderball ~ 750 dmg
(These are estimates that are actual damage and not the true damage before considering monster def)

All are between 50-57 mana to cast

ignoring damage/damage over time (because time and power are what seem to be held against this skill the most) lets look at the skills functionality.

I can thunderball, then continue to cast while adding to the dps.

Lets say I whirlwind then plumeshot and then I have to heal (myself or tank)
I used 100 mana w/o heal and did about 1000 damage.

Instead I thunderball then heal
I used 57 mana did 750 damage, but I get to heal (or do more damaging spells) while the ball is still working its thing.

I know the cast time is outrageous, but thats why you lead with it.

How my fights go is I thunderball, whirlwind, kite until movement debuff wears off, whirlwind, plume shot (when needed). This results in only taking damage when my whirlwind doesn't debuff speed from melee attacks. (not very often)

Keep in mind that lots of monsters will have that tiny bit of life you need to whirlwind or plume shot away, but the ball will take care of it all.

When I was under lvl20 I would stand their and take the hits from monsters instead of kiting because they didn't do much damage, this did waste alot of mp in healing that was just unnessasry. Now I can run around while the ball does all the damage keeping whirlwind up as nessacary. Its more of a utility spell than anything, because it allows you to do damage while carrying out your main role (support/healling)

please give me your specific objections to this skill for arguments sake, and if you have lvled this skill to max could you please include the discription of damage/range/mp use etc.
thanks

SATII - Lost City

Sure it's alright at that level, but 4x it's useless. Not only does it take as long as wield thunder to cast, it needs to tick at least 4 times to be of any use. Mob will be dead before then.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

SATII - Lost City wrote: »

Mob will be dead before then.

Bull's eye!b:pleased

It works over 15 seconds, but the mob should be dead long before, so the actual damage dealt is less than other spells, for longer cast time. Besides, between Plum shot, Cyclone, and Wield Thunder, grinding is pretty much covered. Whatever spirit you waste on Thunderball can be better used somewhere else.

Corwin - Harshlands

ok good point

am I doing bad now? because every mob I kill takes more than 15 seconds

solo that is, prob because I do alot of kiting.
It seems better to kite because I get hit for over 100 dmg each time a monster hits me, and when I kite I get hit 0-1 times, but when I cast away from max range, I get hit 2-4 times and almost die (w/o ironhart or pots) Do you think it is better to run around like crazy to save the dmg/mp cost to heal, or save time by casting all spells rooted like a tree?

In a strictly PvP scenerio (PK, TW, group PvP) wouldn't this skill be lovely w/ sleep/mobility debuffs. Does anyone know if the reocurring dmg in thunderball wakes an opponent up? It would be great to slow/sleep a barb, while healing with a steady 300dps + any other offensive spells you can get off. I don't have any exp in this matter, so what would stop me keeping the target at a reduced movement speed while kiting and reapplying thunderball and other dmg spells?

Shano - Lost City

piece of **** skill
mine still lv 1

Alyyy - Sanctuary

i leveled thunder ball was that a mistake should i have upgraded something else?(i max my healing skills, atack skills and my bufs as much as i can)

Echelon - Heavens Tear

I only use it when my mob is left with like......5% hp.....and the initial damage will kill it.

It's Useful against Bosses tho, as a constant damage on them type thing while someone's tanking.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

I lvled mine to 3 will probably stay there untill I get wield thunder.I do decent amount of damge at that lvl.

xxxdsmer

Echelon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

........It's Useful against Bosses tho, as a constant damage on them type thing while someone's tanking.

just what i was thinking as i was reading through this hehe. and actually, bosses is where my thunderball sees most of its use. with me being pure mag and a good wpn n rings, the mob's usually dead before it gets to me or gets 1 maybe 2 hits off. so, other than kiting in normal mobbing i dont usually use thunderball, but on bosses i keep the ball over its head (at my thunderball's current level of 2 its about 20 dmg dealt per mp spent where plumeshot n cyclone are about 10-12, going just on what the skill says it'd do for dmg)

and there's the possibility of (maybe) thunderballs stack like a barb's flesh ream or cleric's iornheart? (never have tried this out to see though)

Corwin - Harshlands

yes it does stack but with an 8 second cool down time, you wont get much overlap. at max the skill does about 4500 damage over 15 seconds, or 300 damage per second and cost a ton of mana. I think I am gonna keep it at level one and keep leading with it for now(its so expensive), until I can spark/weld

it seems like the mp cost scales up much faster than other attack skills ie plum shot and whirlwind. Thanks for the help tho. I was really wondering how it would fair in pvp but it seems like most pvp matches are decided well before that 15 second marker, and its a very valid point about the cast time, and the fact that any time they die before its used you have wasted damage which means wasted mp.

xxxdsmer

with lv1 thunderball the damage per mana was something like 20.2, and when i upped it to lv2 it went to something like 20.0.

for things that last that long (bosses or kiteing increased life mob) its a much better way to spend MP [i usually only start with it if i'm kiteing, but on bosses i keep it goin] considering plumeshot and cyclone are about 10-12 dmg.

another good thing i see about thunderball is it allows me to contribute damage to killin the boss, and i'm still adding dmg evn if i needa switch targets n iornheart someone, then cast another thunderball and oops agro went somewhere else.. heal that person, still addin dmg to the boss lol.

i dont plan to level it any more than 2 for now cause i'm saving sp for thing like gettin that sirens kiss so i can get wield thunder and tempest later on, and metal mastery and a buncha other things.

but sure, casting thunderball when the target dosent last 15 seconds is a waste of mp because the skill hadnt had its 15 seconds to do its full effect.

annnd.. for pvp maaaaybe thunderball if u caught someone completely by suprise and they didnt hear the loud sound thunderball makes while channeling/casting lol


but, like many other skills and playstyles in pw, it jus comes down to the individual's preference and how useful they find a skill (like my blessing of the purehearted, its still at lv1, and so's wellspring surge)

Nayethe - Lost City

Thunderball... moderately useful in boss fights, since those take some time. The damage certainly adds up, but it's low enough that you're not going to be stealing aggro with it, which will certainly make your tank happy! A few extra thousand damage from occasional Thunderballs from you will make the boss fight go just a little bit quicker.

However, also consider this: If you are the only healer and the tank has full control of the boss, why not cast a Great Cyclone? It does a good bunch of metal damage, but more importantly, it takes 2 seconds total to channel and cast. That is pretty quick. The less you attack the boss, the more you can devote yourself to watching the tank's health bar and making sure that he lives. The extra damage from your Great Cyclone will make the fight go faster, and you'll be able to watch the tank's health better. So, Cyclone > Thunderball. Just a thought.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

It's main use is PvP against high health cat pullers. Other than that, I don't use it. Mine is at lvl 10. Needed it when killing barbs and bms.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

It's really not useful for pve. The damage per mana for bosses just doesn't justify spending limited spirit that can otherwise be used on other spells. Boss fights are rare. Majority of players spend most of their time grinding on mobs. Skills that you'll hardly ever use, and even when you do use it, don't provide a balance-tipping advantage, are a waste of spirit.

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

Those of you who haven't clued in...Saying thunderball is useless is like saying a Veno's pet is useless. It's extra damage over time. It's a good bridge while Wield Thunder is cooling down. It's helpful with high health mobs. It's especially helpful with high defence mobs. It's helpful with Boss mobs ( as noted ). It's helpful in PvP as a spike which gets larger as your base mAtk gets larger.

I've noticed with a lot of classes that there are "useless" skills that become quite useful at later levels. This is one of them.

Enina - Heavens Tear

I've tried Thunderball, and while it was awesome on the low levels where it definitely outdamaged my other skills at the time... It just took way too long to work. The initial blast of damage is lower than for the other skills, and while the DoT from Thunderball does add up, other skills are much more useful.

Wield Thunder takes as long to cast as Thunderball, and deals half of Thunderball's total damage in its one shot. Cyclone, Plume Shot, Ironheart Blessing on myself, and then Wield Thunder again. By this time, all but metal-aligned mobs are dead - total time is around 8 or 10 seconds. If I used Thunderball, I'd increase that time to Thunderball's full duration, which would also give the mob enough time to hit me twice more...

The only time I can think of Thunderball being useful is if you kite physical, melee mobs. Thunderball a mob, Cyclone it to get it down in speed, run for your life. Rinse and repeat a few times until the mob is dead.

However, I find that kiting is much more dangerous to me than going head-to-head with a single mob. Plume Shell is a life saver against physical mobs - and you should be able to kill a monster before your Shell runs out, anyway. If I try to kite, even with monsters displayed on my minimap, I run far too great a risk of aggroing a nearby monster. And then, instead of trying to kite a single mob, I suddenly have two, three or more angry things running after me. And as I try to attack or get rid of the additional monsters, the first monster loses interest and runs back while regenerating all of its health...

Yeah. Thunderball is pretty useless save for a very, very few cases.

Inias - Heavens Tear

ok sorry but -_- it's obvious this skill is not menth for PVE it's a skill you can use in territory war against a barb that has too much healt , and his charm keeps tikking so u need to be able to deal more damage in short time so cast thunderball and start dealing some dmg

but still i think this skill is quite useless it's not worth it they should give it like 20 % more dmg then it would be kinda worth it
but now it does maybe 1/4 of enemy's health

in TW it needs to go faster XD

Mrfinland - Harshlands

It is fairly useless vs mobs.

As stated above use it on bosses, or in PvP TW on higher HP users.



But just don't go level it too soon as you'll need the SP for other things.
I think i had it level 1 until like level 76 or so in MY-EN.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ok sorry but -_- it's obvious this skill is not menth for PVE it's a skill you can use in territory war against a barb that has too much healt , and his charm keeps tikking so u need to be able to deal more damage in short time so cast thunderball and start dealing some dmg

but still i think this skill is quite useless it's not worth it they should give it like 20 % more dmg then it would be kinda worth it
but now it does maybe 1/4 of enemy's health

in TW it needs to go faster XD

Demon version gets time reduced to 12 for how quickly the dmg hits. Which means all of it should fall before next tick. Or 1 off, depending how it counts. Means more dmg per tick as well.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Well Thunderball will do 295 dmg per second for 15 seconds at level 10
and demons thunderball will do 566 dmg per second for 12 seconds

That is very good.. no doubt I left mine at 3 for far too long and I shall level it.

Inna - Heavens Tear

I agree with the TW use. Im not gonna level it to 10 until I get the book for it.

Daialura - Heavens Tear

I quietly chuckle to myself at the few extra zaps it gives Empyrean Slyther when he sleeps me. :P

Nelriel - Lost City

another question can you spark any of the DoT attacks and get the additional damage from it? or is that worthless and would only affect the intial blast?

Forp - Heavens Tear

i maxed this skill the other day just for the hell of it. definitly worth the 450k i put into it. i like how the dot isn't nerfed when you fly, so you can hit people from above and they'll still be taking full damage.

booog

I personally think Wield Thunder is pointless in grind myself the cast time is huge and the mp required is even bigger u can do 2 demon cyclones or 2 demon plums for the mp cost of WT and prolly do more dmg with those at less chance to be interrupted or dying posion flying mobs in heaven have a good interupt rate making it hard to get of this skill especially if u shoot blindly in the trees and pull 3-4 (until demon WT which is 30 pages of fate i am not there yet ) i still grind in heaven now and as we all know we eat thru mp charms but sesame is a great counter part now and as for thunderball i mostly forget to use it on bosses just cause of its limited use i dont think much about using it

ghui

Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ok sorry but -_- it's obvious this skill is not menth for PVE it's a skill you can use in territory war against a barb that has too much healt , and his charm keeps tikking so u need to be able to deal more damage in short time so cast thunderball and start dealing some dmg

but still i think this skill is quite useless it's not worth it they should give it like 20 % more dmg then it would be kinda worth it
but now it does maybe 1/4 of enemy's health

in TW it needs to go faster XD

With Metal Mastery it will do 20% more damage
I would say this skill would be a nice opener for PvE, the damage would be sweet if u have metal mastery at a fairly high lvl

Alyyy - Sanctuary

i didnt lvl metal mastery yet and i use thunderball usualy for the finish it takes the least mp

valorien

I see it being useful against bosses in TT and such. Anyone know the Damage Per Second (DPS) a cleric does with Thunderball > Cyclone > Plume > Cyclone versus just Plume > Cyclone > etc.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

booog wrote: »

I personally think Wield Thunder is pointless in grind myself the cast time is huge and the mp required is even bigger u can do 2 demon cyclones or 2 demon plums for the mp cost of WT and prolly do more dmg with those at less chance to be interrupted or dying posion flying mobs in heaven have a good interupt rate making it hard to get of this skill especially if u shoot blindly in the trees and pull 3-4 (until demon WT which is 30 pages of fate i am not there yet ) i still grind in heaven now and as we all know we eat thru mp charms but sesame is a great counter part now and as for thunderball i mostly forget to use it on bosses just cause of its limited use i dont think much about using it

Level it and youll think other wise.
Wielded thunder rocks.
And further more i dont think you are even close to sage/demon if you are saying this, guess your around ~50

Batista - Dreamweaver

I alwas use Wield Thunder as an opener skill, followed by Cyclone and multiple Plume Shots for the time being.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

valorien wrote: »

I see it being useful against bosses in TT and such. Anyone know the Damage Per Second (DPS) a cleric does with Thunderball > Cyclone > Plume > Cyclone versus just Plume > Cyclone > etc.

DPS on thunderball is terrible. It's about 2k extra damage over Cyclone and takes almost twice as long to cast. Even with alot of -channeling gear, it won't help out. Also grabs aggro better than normal damage does. It's why I pretty much only use it as a way to kill faster between charm ticks.