A BUG that needs to go bye bye

Aedril - Sanctuary

swiftlikeafox wrote: »

An archer and a BM in my guild helped me test this...... my lvl 62 sawfly with lvl4 Fleshream(maxed for the pets lvl) against a lvl 64 archer from my guild, archer had no trouble at all managing the damage and could have easily killed me in the time it took the sawfly to kill her(which was about 10 seconds)

Lvl 42 BM against that same sawfly, the BM died a little faster but it was still nothing spectacular, he still had plenty of time to nail me with a few good shots had he wanted to(he survived about 6 or 7 seconds)

Try it with a phoenix when you get higher level. 6-10 seconds? nope... more like 3-5.

XViet - Sanctuary

swiftlikeafox wrote: »

An archer and a BM in my guild helped me test this...... my lvl 62 sawfly with lvl4 Fleshream(maxed for the pets lvl) against a lvl 64 archer from my guild, archer had no trouble at all managing the damage and could have easily killed me in the time it took the sawfly to kill her(which was about 10 seconds)

Lvl 42 BM against that same sawfly, the BM died a little faster but it was still nothing spectacular, he still had plenty of time to nail me with a few good shots had he wanted to(he survived about 6 or 7 seconds)

Now keep in mind that lvl 4 fleshream is supposed to do pets base damage + 180% of base over 9 seconds, my 62 sawfly has an attack of 1754........ 1754 X 2 + 1403(80%) = 4911 over 9 seconds = 546 damage per second................. now dont you think if he was really doing that much damage, it would've taken at the most HALF as long to kill a 64 Archer(with around 2.2kHP) or a 42 BM(with barely even 2K HP)?????

Just for kicks, wanna know what a lvl 62 sawfly with maxed bleed hits on both a lvl 64 archer and a 42 BM???? He hits for 111 dmg...... THIS is what you guys are sooooo afraid of?!?!?!b:chuckle

Lol your petite sawfly must be messed up, I had a flesh ream hit me for 1.2k
every tick on ground, Id hate to see if theres any difference in the air

swiftlikeafox

Aedril - Sanctuary wrote: »

Try it with a phoenix when you get higher level. 6-10 seconds? nope... more like 3-5.

Don't have a phoenix and don't plan on getting one.... and besides wasn't the topic of this post "OMG bleed is bugged" and not "OMG phoenix is bugged"????

XViet - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lol your petite sawfly must be messed up, I had a flesh ream hit me for 1.2k
every tick on ground, Id hate to see if theres any difference in the air

Well it did seem like it was hitting a little higher, but 111 was all the any of us we're seeing.

The way flesh ream works is the base damage is dealt on the initial hit with the remaining 180%(or 200% at lvl5) being dealt over 9 seconds.

For even lvl 5 flesh ream to tick at 1.2K, it would mean the pet would have to have a base attack of 5400, now considering that at lvl 90 a phoenix only has a base attack of 4096, and a sawfly at 3297, I highly doubt that you would see flesh ream ticking at 1.2K...... what you may have been seeing is the pet still attacking and you mistook it for flesh ream ticking.

XViet - Sanctuary

swiftlikeafox wrote: »

Don't have a phoenix and don't plan on getting one.... and besides wasn't the topic of this post "OMG bleed is bugged" and not "OMG phoenix is bugged"????





Well it did seem like it was hitting a little higher, but 111 was all the any of us we're seeing.

The way flesh ream works is the base damage is dealt on the initial hit with the remaining 180%(or 200% at lvl5) being dealt over 9 seconds.

For even lvl 5 flesh ream to tick at 1.2K, it would mean the pet would have to have a base attack of 5400, now considering that at lvl 90 a phoenix only has a base attack of 4096, and a sawfly at 3297, I highly doubt that you would see flesh ream ticking at 1.2K...... what you may have been seeing is the pet still attacking and you mistook it for flesh ream ticking.

Well it might have been the ironwood scarb the veno casted on me but
she only hit me once, flesh ream did the rest

Klath - Sanctuary

Lol your petite sawfly must be messed up, I had a flesh ream hit me for 1.2k
every tick on ground, Id hate to see if theres any difference in the air

All DOTs do same damage on ground and air.
But on Air, the pet will have his full attack, delivering extra strong hits, thus killing you even faster.

Oishasan - Sanctuary

fuzzles wrote: »

The cooldown on pet bleed is longer than the duration of it.. maybe it does stack? Need multiple venos to test it.

Also, the barb bleed is completely entirely different to the pet bleed. If the barb bleed ignored 1/4 damage PvP, it would be a huge problem. But it doesn't. So it isn't. And it's not just barbs that can stack bleed. BMs can do it as well.

The issue is that the pet bleed does 4 times as much damage as it should. Other classes have nothing to do with it.

Pet bleed timers are on the same duration as the bleed itself, so you can't stack them. Multiple pet bleeds do not stack either, been tested and reported on the Veno forums.
BUT...player bleeds do stack including from multiple players on the same target(thus even 75% reduced you can easily do more damage than a single pet bleed), so nerfing pet bleeds, would only get the player bleeds nerfed as well.

bottom line:
working as intended.

Phoenix was the anomally, but it is being dealt with...
the pet, not the skill.

Evga - Sanctuary

well, i've to say it's kinda fair. people spend over 20 mil for one pet. they deserve a strong pet :P i'm sure if you spend that much money on armor or weapon, you will be able to kill people in 5 seconds.

but seriously, you can't outright nerf pheonix to hell, cause it's not fair for people who spend large amount of money for it.

Mua - Lost City

Evga - Sanctuary wrote: »

well, i've to say it's kinda fair. people spend over 20 mil for one pet. they deserve a strong pet :P i'm sure if you spend that much money on armor or weapon, you will be able to kill people in 5 seconds.

but seriously, you can't outright nerf pheonix to hell, cause it's not fair for people who spend large amount of money for it.

People spend more on g9 HP stones than on a Phoenix. As endgame "gear" goes, it's so cheap that they're practically giving it away.


I'm not even going to respond to the level 40 from Sanctuary, Someone else can tell him why his logic sucks.

I'll just say this for the 20th time or so- The Phoenix is fine. Flesh Ream just needs to be fixed.

Klath - Sanctuary

People spend more on g9 HP stones than on a Phoenix. As endgame "gear" goes, it's so cheap that they're practically giving it away.

Yep, they spend millions more and yet cant beat a phoenix if one stares at them.

Flesh Ream just needs to be fixed.

swiftlikeafox

The only purpose threads like these serve is to increase the hype....

How many Venos bought phoenixes because they somehow ended up under the impression that they were "overpowered"???

How many venos trained up fleshream on a sawfly because everyone else said "bleed is bugged"???

I bought into the hype from the later as well, only to find myself a little disappointed, the sawfly with fleshream is only marginally better(if at all) in PvP than any of my other pets.

The fact is, nothing is going to change here unless it changes in the Chinese version first, and as has already been pointed out, fleshream has not been gimped in any of the other versions, whereas the phoenix has.... this is most likely what we will see here as well.......

So unless you're trying for an "I sold 200 phoenixes today" T-shirt, it's probably time to drop the subject.

Mua - Lost City

swiftlikeafox wrote: »

I bought into the hype from the later as well, only to find myself a little disappointed, the sawfly with fleshream is only marginally better(if at all) in PvP than any of my other pets.

WTF are your other pets, all Kowlin and scorpions? Or do you just forget to click the right button? There's no "hype" about how fast Robe and LA wearers die to Flesh Ream.

swiftlikeafox

Mua - Lost City wrote: »

WTF are your other pets, all Kowlin and scorpions? Or do you just forget to click the right button? There's no "hype" about how fast Robe and LA wearers die to Flesh Ream.

Oh really???? Are they really dying to flesh ream or are they dying to a pet with a reasonably high attack???? The archer I tested my sawfly with lvl4 fleshream on(and YES fleshream was selected) has fallen just as quick before to my Golem with lvl4 bash.

There are several reasons why a Golem is not an ideal PvP pet, it's a land creature and it's sloooowwww, but if someone just stands there and lets it hit them, it WILL kill them every bit as fast as a sawfly with fleshream.

And Kowlin???? BWHAHAHAHA, the most overrated JOKE of a pet in the game.... my foxwing has a higher attack, and nearly as much speed, the kowlin comes with 1 lvl higher fleshream than the lvl 54 foxwing, that is it's ONLY real advantage

Mua - Lost City

swiftlikeafox wrote: »

Oh really???? Are they really dying to flesh ream or are they dying to a pet with a reasonably high attack???? The archer I tested my sawfly with lvl4 fleshream on(and YES fleshream was selected) has fallen just as quick before to my Golem with lvl4 bash.

There are several reasons why a Golem is not an ideal PvP pet, it's a land creature and it's sloooowwww, but if someone just stands there and lets it hit them, it WILL kill them every bit as fast as a sawfly with fleshream.

And Kowlin???? BWHAHAHAHA, the most overrated JOKE of a pet in the game.... my foxwing has a higher attack, and nearly as much speed, the kowlin comes with 1 lvl higher fleshream than the lvl 54 foxwing, that is it's ONLY real advantage

Riiiight. Well, you're one of like 2 venos I've ever known who actually thinks the whole flesh ream Bee/Phoenix thing is overrated. Good luck with that.

swiftlikeafox

Mua - Lost City wrote: »

Riiiight. Well, you're one of like 2 venos I've ever known who actually thinks the whole flesh ream Bee/Phoenix thing is overrated. Good luck with that.

That's because I prefer to dig through the hype and try to find the facts

Mua - Lost City

swiftlikeafox wrote: »

That's because I prefer to dig through the hype and try to find the facts

Wheras most people in my guild just ignore the hype and experience it themselves, courtesy of FieryDevil, Cancer and MeLoveYou.

Oishasan - Sanctuary

Mua - Lost City wrote: »

People spend more on g9 HP stones than on a Phoenix. As endgame "gear" goes, it's so cheap that they're practically giving it away.


I'm not even going to respond to the level 40 from Sanctuary, Someone else can tell him why his logic sucks.

I'll just say this for the 20th time or so- The Phoenix is fine. Flesh Ream just needs to be fixed.

This from a troll responding on a Sanctuary thread.

As for your assumption of level of a forum avatar vs. their PWI gaming experience, and/or their MMORPG gaming experience overall...
in words you can understand...

you fail.

Mua - Lost City

Oishasan - Sanctuary wrote: »

This from a troll responding on a Sanctuary thread.

As for your assumption of level of a forum avatar vs. their PWI gaming experience, and/or their MMORPG gaming experience overall...
in words you can understand...

you fail.

Yes, I'm the one who is failing here, Mr Player-Bleeds-Stack-So-They-Can-Easily-Do-More-Damage-Than-Pet-Bleed.

Have you even fought a decent Phoenix before? >.>

Oishasan - Sanctuary

Once again, yes you fail..

you fail to read and realize the Phoenix is and has been nerfed, The NA client hasn't received the update yet. Flesh Ream is not changing. There was never a debate that the Phoenix itself was OP'd, but you could have read that in this thread if you bothered to.

Other than that, yes bleeds do stack from players, ever played a melee toon in PWI? Barbarian (tiger) bleed stack just fine, and would outdamage a pet bleed if properly played. Why? because a barb can spam it every other second, whereas the pet has to wait for it's timer/effect to reset. The limitation for the barb to do this is his Chi pool (call it balance, thus it doesn't constitute nerfing).

If you want to test this, you will need to have 2 computers/accounts, but it's pretty easy to prove. Check the combat logs, the effects will show up there, and will also stay on the mob itself, but the debuffs don't always appear under the nameplate.

Mua - Lost City

Oishasan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Once again, yes you fail..

you fail to read and realize the Phoenix is and has been nerfed, Our NA client hasn't received the update yet. Flesh Ream is not changing. There was never a debate that the Phoenix itself was OP'd, but you could have read that in this thread if you bothered to.

Other than that, yes bleeds do stack from players, ever played a melee toon in PWI? Barbarian (tiger) bleed stack just fine, and would outdamage a pet bleed if properly played. Why? because a barb can spam it every other second, whereas the pet has to wait for it's timer/effect to reset. The limitation for the barb to do this is his Chi pool (call it balance, thus is doesn't constitute nerfing).

If you want to test this, you will need to have 2 computers/accounts, but it's pretty easy to prove. Check the combat logs, the effects will show up there, and will also stay on the mob itself, but the debuffs don't always appear under the nameplate.

I don't remember saying the Phoenix has NEVER been nerfed. But that doesn't mean it should be. Yes, Player bleeds stack but if you bear in mind that a 9x Phoenix can wipe you out in under 5 seconds..

swiftlikeafox

Mua - Lost City wrote: »

I don't remember saying the Phoenix has NEVER been nerfed. But that doesn't mean it should be. Yes, Player bleeds stack but if you bear in mind that a 9x Phoenix can wipe you out in under 5 seconds..

What's so surprising about that???? He's lvl 50 something, I'm 66, and you're 75, a lvl 9X archer could probably wipe all three of us out at the same time with one AOE in under 2 seconds.

Seems to me like you're trying to sell the rest of us Venos down the river in order to try and protect your own interests (Phoenix).

You're efforts will most likely be in vain, as nothing that hasn't already happened in the other versions will likely be happening here.

Psihi - Sanctuary

swiftlikeafox wrote: »

What's so surprising about that???? He's lvl 50 something, I'm 66, and you're 75, a lvl 9X archer could probably wipe all three of us out at the same time with one AOE in under 2 seconds.

Seems to me like you're trying to sell the rest of us Venos down the river in order to try and protect your own interests (Phoenix).

You're efforts will most likely be in vain, as nothing that hasn't already happened in the other versions will likely be happening here.

Archer here(ME) VERY hybrid build got wiped out in 3-5s...
You Simply CANNOT understand how frustrating it is to do have 4-7k phy attack, 4200 life 3k defense and get wiped out by a phoenix alone...in a battle vs. exactly the same level veno.

swiftlikeafox

Psihi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Archer here(ME) VERY hybrid build got wiped out in 3-5s...
You Simply CANNOT understand how frustrating it is to do have 4-7k phy attack, 4200 life 3k defense and get wiped out by a phoenix alone...in a battle vs. exactly the same level veno and archer.

No, that's the thing, I do understand how frustrating that could be. The question that comes to my mind is was it fleshream that killed you or was it the phoenixes insanely high attack??? Remember a pet does not stop attacking after it lands a skill, it just keeps attacking until either you or it are dead.

I wonder if someone took a forget scroll to a phoenix and forgot it's bleed skill and instead trained it for max level bash, would it still be deadly??? My prediction is YES, not quite AS deadly since max bash only does 2x damage whereas max bleed can do 3X damage(over time), but bash also has a shorter cooldown and can be used more often...... it would be an interesting experiment.

chipsing1234

Mind you, though venos may spend a lot for the Phoenix:
1. Venos can solo TT. No other class can. There's one infinite money method.
2. Venos have very little repair costs, seeing as their pet tanks most of the damage. Barbs/bms with high lvl weap/armor have >100k repair costs, often.
3. Venos, being the best solo PvE, grind and therefore make money faster than any other class. Even a tank veno, with her pet/debuffs took down mobs in half the time it took me, a melee, to. And after debuffs all she did was attack. That's double the number of coins and drops in the same amount of time. Once again, venos don't have to worry about few drops as their repairs have a much longer time interval wait than others.
4. Besides the ability to grind quicker than anyone else, venos are also the only class who can make pet eggs and sell them for a profit. And it seems recently the demand for pets has gone up. Snow hare for 100k? It's so hard to make money as a veno.
5. With the Phoenix, grinding becomes 3 times easier. You kill mobs in < 5 seconds, your level, with a leveled phoenix. You can grind on huggy hares even if you're lvl 6x. All that money you spent just came pouring back.

Besides the only class having debuffs, reducing damage by 75% and returning it by 200%, hp/mp switch as WELL as hp/mp recovery (with a cooldown of 5 minutes that's irrelevant in duels or TW), ability to become immune to all damage, having a stun bug longer than bms, being the only class able to solo fbs past 19 or 29 as well as other dungeons, oh, adding an overpowered pet with a bug that remakes the money spent and makes grinding 10x easier just brings them to the same level as all the other classes. I think not.

Evga - Sanctuary

every class has a potential to earn money. you just need to know how. veno being the most obvious.

ever seen those zhen squad. those stuff cost a lot. like you could spend about half a mil in 3 hours. and there are people who do it a lot. and they are not venos, so how they make that much? well it's obvious every class has a way. you just need to figure it out.

i know the best example, the guy who started this thread. he makes a lot of money. about as much as me, and that's about 50 mil by lvl 70 and he is an archer

HolyInferno - Sanctuary

<- poor veno b:surrender

Earcher - Sanctuary

actually theres a way to counter veno's pet's bleed. (for archers)
just time ur wings of grace nicely when the pet is about to attack u. u have dmg immunity during the casting of wings of grace and that blocks the bleed skill. i have used this in a duel with the veno (i think i know which veno u r refering to, psihi).

btw, is the bleed a passive skill by the pet or must veno manually casts it?

GodHatesYOU - Sanctuary

Dude just keep killing the phoenix with people, even if the veno isn't attacking you, just kill the damn phoenix.

It will **** the veno off since phoenixes ONLY eat hay and hay is bloody expensive so they will stop using the phoenix to save money

fuzzles

GodHatesYOU - Sanctuary wrote: »

Dude just keep killing the phoenix with people, even if the veno isn't attacking you, just kill the damn phoenix.

It will **** the veno off since phoenixes ONLY eat hay and hay is bloody expensive so they will stop using the phoenix to save money

I guess you're assuming that the veno is comatose, and won't heal its pet?

Have you seen the stats on a phoenix? They don't die easily.

Rundora - Lost City_1243871147

GodHatesYOU - Sanctuary wrote: »

Dude just keep killing the phoenix with people, even if the veno isn't attacking you, just kill the damn phoenix.

It will **** the veno off since phoenixes ONLY eat hay and hay is bloody expensive so they will stop using the phoenix to save money

This guy is a frickin genius. It'll work guys, let's do this go go go

Klath - Sanctuary

1. Venos can solo TT. No other class can. There's one infinite money method.
2. Venos have very little repair costs, seeing as their pet tanks most of the damage. Barbs/bms with high lvl weap/armor have >100k repair costs, often.
3. Venos, being the best solo PvE, grind and therefore make money faster than any other class. Even a tank veno, with her pet/debuffs took down mobs in half the time it took me, a melee, to. And after debuffs all she did was attack. That's double the number of coins and drops in the same amount of time. Once again, venos don't have to worry about few drops as their repairs have a much longer time interval wait than others.
4. Besides the ability to grind quicker than anyone else, venos are also the only class who can make pet eggs and sell them for a profit. And it seems recently the demand for pets has gone up. Snow hare for 100k? It's so hard to make money as a veno.
5. With the Phoenix, grinding becomes 3 times easier. You kill mobs in < 5 seconds, your level, with a leveled phoenix. You can grind on huggy hares even if you're lvl 6x. All that money you spent just came pouring back.

6. Pets do 100% damage on higher level monsters, players get it reduced up to -75% (1/4).

Dude just keep killing the phoenix with people, even if the veno isn't attacking you, just kill the damn phoenix.

It will **** the veno off since phoenixes ONLY eat hay and hay is bloody expensive so they will stop using the phoenix to save money

And thus has spoken the genius!
1) They eat HAY TYPE food, not only Hay item. That includes a couple of different items, including wild ginseng that drops a lot from mobs past lv80.
2) Phoenixes arent as easy to kill as a bee or flying pig, and they arent slow as a golem either, by the time you cast your first plume shot, you are already half dead.