Stealth is useless end game.

iamnotnormal

Type: Gameplay

Category : Skills (stealth skills by assassins)

Location: All PvP/pvE Areas

Description: Stealth. really does nothing for ? mobs and 105 nw buffs,
Basically the title says it all. At end game, stealth is useless, ? mobs can see you. 105 toons in nw can see you. I don't really see a point with sins having that skill. In league of legends, in order to make stealth not useless they remove ways of detecting it. but improves the cooldown and ways to make yourself appear again after an attack., I think this is needed in ORDER TO make the sins stand out as sins not just a freakin squishy with high damge potential. Make sins become assassins again as they are intended when they were developed. I don't really see the benefit of becoming a sin end game. since db can pretty much kill everything and everyone. "rekko pwi youtube" .
Suggestions:
1. Make sins invisible to ? mobs
2. Remove ways to reveal stealth units (In order to balance this, make cooldown longer or make stealth skills specifically for pvp and pve.)
*these suggestions are made in the assumption that it will literally improve the lifestyle of sins in general and make it more satisfying to play sins. 100% of people are abandoning sins and playing freakin db.

capnk

Okay I laughed.

dblazen1

You don't need stealth for PvE areas in general in the first place.
When it comes to PvP, last I knew the detection stuff players can use has a pretty big cooldown, so basically you're just trying to reverse that.

All I can say is git gud.​​

goldfinch47

More stealth skills for wizards please.

blazerboy

I laughed so hard at this. Duskblades for one is the biggest keyboard faceroll class ATM. If the db sucks in general he can't cause too much damage if ppl focus him/her while a sin just literally 2 spark and just sheer damage can kill even in Jsod db has exceptionally less damage. You are comparing all dbs to rekko whom videos of him killing people prior to the lastest expansions for ex crit nerf more def lvl really lmfao...

aspiringapathy

blazerboy wrote: »

I laughed so hard at this. Duskblades for one is the biggest keyboard faceroll class ATM. If the db sucks in general he can't cause too much damage if ppl focus him/her while a sin just literally 2 spark and just sheer damage can kill even in Jsod db has exceptionally less damage. You are comparing all dbs to rekko whom videos of him killing people prior to the lastest expansions for ex crit nerf more def lvl really lmfao...

o.o I might be blind...where did we start talking about DB playability?

iamnotnormal

dblazen1 wrote: »

You don't need stealth for PvE areas in general in the first place.
When it comes to PvP, last I knew the detection stuff players can use has a pretty big cooldown, so basically you're just trying to reverse that.

All I can say is git gud.​​

Y did they even created stealth if you don't need it? Sins and Stealth pretty much sum up what assassin is? 2 minutes cd (CAN THIS BE CALLED BIG COOLDOWN?) 1min:30secs + 30 secs (usage). its super short. Really. 1:30 is the real cooldown. Considering that you comment without knowing the cooldown. ur arrogant af. r9 ur way to victory nub.

iamnotnormal

aspiringapathy wrote: »

blazerboy wrote: »

I laughed so hard at this. Duskblades for one is the biggest keyboard faceroll class ATM. If the db sucks in general he can't cause too much damage if ppl focus him/her while a sin just literally 2 spark and just sheer damage can kill even in Jsod db has exceptionally less damage. You are comparing all dbs to rekko whom videos of him killing people prior to the lastest expansions for ex crit nerf more def lvl really lmfao...

o.o I might be blind...where did we start talking about DB playability?

+1 to this guy. we are talking abt sins here.

iamnotnormal

goldfinch47 wrote: »

More stealth skills for wizards please.

make ur own thread pls. im pretty sure pwi will make a magic class that can stealth soon

iamnotnormal

blazerboy wrote: »

I laughed so hard at this. Duskblades for one is the biggest keyboard faceroll class ATM. If the db sucks in general he can't cause too much damage if ppl focus him/her while a sin just literally 2 spark and just sheer damage can kill even in Jsod db has exceptionally less damage. You are comparing all dbs to rekko whom videos of him killing people prior to the lastest expansions for ex crit nerf more def lvl really lmfao...

I'm pretty sure u got killed by db. we are talking abt sins here. pls move away from this thread.

blazerboy

@aspiringapathy so the part where this person states "I don't really see the benefit of becoming a sin endgame. Since db can pretty much kill everything and everyone. "Rekko pwi YouTube" doesn't talk about db playability vs sin? Really? I'm merely saying that this is completely short sighted comment and outdated as heck seeing as that YT acc main videos were like 3 updates ago when dbs were far stronger than they are now. Just because Sins have ways to be forced out of stealth while maintaining obscene damage doesn't make stealth a problem.

@iamnotnormal "Im pretty sure yougot killed by db"? By a db as in randomly or a specific one o.o?

Also with skills like tidal which has 66% in sage of avoiding any negative effects and then just a 30 second vulnerability window and you're complaining we need less ways to force a sin to be cc/killable really? You won't hurt/or pressure any tidal sin unless you massively outgear them or they suck. Kinda proves you don't have pvp experience. Sin ultimate 20 seconds of 0 consequences unless you're stupid enough to die due to a aoe in that case get good, share stealth for a quick immediate way to get some heat off you or allies and I believe there's skills that can be glyph now to put you in stealth, think shadow jump can? Add already death link which also at max SF is extremely beneficial. You're basically asking for sins to completely lose the ability to be idk forced into a corner like the rest of us lel. Endgame Jsod/Serenity sins are harder to kill thank most bms/barbs lol. I can understand you want stealth to work more in PvE but PvP really lmfao?

"100% of sins of people are abandoning sins and playing freaking db"? Once again completely wrong most archers or range classes changed it's rare a sin changed to db first of all and second you're making it hard when you say "were talkin about sins here" when you say stuff like that. Improving stealth is going to make Sins more viable to play? If anyone even switches from sin to db it's to be able to paralyze more since Sins only have one. Stealthing has nothing to do with this factor at all why bring db into this then try and say it's not about db despite making it obvious part of your post does seem upset with dbs...

dblazen1

iamnotnormal wrote: »

dblazen1 wrote: »

You don't need stealth for PvE areas in general in the first place.
When it comes to PvP, last I knew the detection stuff players can use has a pretty big cooldown, so basically you're just trying to reverse that.

All I can say is git gud.

Y did they even created stealth if you don't need it? Sins and Stealth pretty much sum up what assassin is? 2 minutes cd (CAN THIS BE CALLED BIG COOLDOWN?) 1min:30secs + 30 secs (usage). its super short. Really. 1:30 is the real cooldown. Considering that you comment without knowing the cooldown. ur arrogant af. r9 ur way to victory nub.

Because it has it's usages, but obviously you don't know how to use it and just yell and swing your arms at people when they disagree with you.

Sins are really not in any position to complain when it comes to skills, let them fix other stuff first implying that will ever be done anyway

Also, your threads are in the wrong subsection, they should be in suggestions, not quality corner.​​

jsxshadow

I laughed as well...sins by all means don't need any more ways to protect themselves/avoid death. There are already way too many and if it would go by my will I would completely remove lvl12 stealths and also remove the CD from the stealth detection potions. Sins stealth is such BS..I don't even. Hit them right away after they've stealthed (upto 5 sec) and they won't get unstealthed, DoT's won't unstealth them...heck just CC mostly doesnt unstealth them if its without damage...

Whats your definition of an assassin anyways? You can stealth before a fight to get a surprise attack in..thats what assassins do...but you want them to vanish out of the fight completely while literally having the axe still stuck in their backs...that makes no sense, really. Midfight stealth is complete and utter BS and if such a thing exists it would have to come with massive backdraws for the sin. Heck at the current state they even gain chi/purify when stealthing and it lasts forever...10 sec max while being unable to move without gaining chi/purify would be decent and fair for midfight-stealth-skills.

I don't even know how many times sins escaped/managed to stay alive longer due to stealth which is completely unjustified for a supposedly squishy class. There is nothing to complain about at all. Quite the opposite actually.

I know, I know..ppl want easy game and easy ways to stay alive when they **** up. GG. Just blow all your stuff and then stealth for eternity until everything is out of CD. Wow. Sounds so fair and balanced...I dont even...

What can you expect from someone that puts rekko as an example of duskblades power...literally the worst of the better geared duskblades..holy mother of heck. He can PvE tho.

iamnotnormal

Most people commenting here have bigger **** than me. yes u r coz im female. ur better than me alright.
since most people r fan of rekko's r9+12 +com + wings of ascesion + devil stones...envious people and said they are better than him 99% of the time. i dont know that clicking and pointing + typing is a skill now. oh lord times. they dont really have a useful comment not one bit. lol.

jxshadow. IF SINS CAN'T STEALTH? ARE THEY DB NOW TOO? stealth defines what they are. in 2k spirit fight. the one with better gears always wins. if you can't kill the squishy sin.. that means u don't have gears. or spirit to do so. in a 1v1 fight r9 sin and g16 db. same spirit the db always wins. coz db skills animation and execution is so fast and fluid. unlike the sins slow **** skill animation. db wins coz the dev failed to make sins skills connect with each other and make it more fluid like motion.

well. its in quality corner.. coz. Stealth should work on ? mobs.​​

nightmare201

iamnotnormal wrote: »

Most people commenting here have bigger **** than me. yes u r coz im female. ur better than me alright.
since most people r fan of rekko's r9+12 +com + wings of ascesion + devil stones...envious people and said they are better than him 99% of the time. i dont know that clicking and pointing + typing is a skill now. oh lord times. they dont really have a useful comment not one bit. lol.

jxshadow. IF SINS CAN'T STEALTH? ARE THEY DB NOW TOO? stealth defines what they are. in 2k spirit fight. the one with better gears always wins. if you can't kill the squishy sin.. that means u don't have gears. or spirit to do so. in a 1v1 fight r9 sin and g16 db. same spirit the db always wins. coz db skills animation and execution is so fast and fluid. unlike the sins slow **** skill animation. db wins coz the dev failed to make sins skills connect with each other and make it more fluid like motion.

well. its in quality corner.. coz. Stealth should work on ? mobs.

You just switched between 3 different complaints. Are you saying DBs are OP, stealth needs to be buffed (it doesn't) or that sins have really slow skills?

To the main point of the thread, that being stealth needs to be buffed specifically for ? mobs to not be able to detect you and players to have less ways to remove you from stealth, I'd like to introduce you to the ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE every player faced in the months after the tideborn expansion. Stealth having zero counters was horrible and made sins basically unstoppable unless everyone turned to focus them. Now if you're trying to speak to a real-world historical friendly definition of an assassin, an unstoppable force of terror face tanking an entire TW squad is not the correct one I can assure you. Assassins are plenty powerful at what they need to be doing, if not too powerful but that's my bias, which is popping up, quickly assassinating (hey look it's the origin of the name) a key target, and disappearing in the shadows. You have all the tools to do this freely, with stealth and vanish providing the in and out, shadow jump/dash for moving around, and Tidal to remove most any chance anyone has at stopping you. This does not, and frankly I doubt it will ever be, changed for the better. If anything, it will probably get nerfed a bit to try and make since easier to target down and kill.

Now onto the PvE aspect: I really don't see the point of being able to stealth past ? level mobs. Why would you need this ability? What dungeon in the game would this benefit? Sins can already skip large portions of many dungeons in the game as is so I think that randomly adding a buff to stealth that means you can sit next to bosses is rather pointless.

Now I'll wrap this up by saying that assassins can definitely use a bit of a change in direction for their class, making it more stealth focused would be fine but that would require some tuning but it could work. But as is, the buffs you outlined are unneeded and would only serve to break sins even more.​​

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forbiddenwords

So basically what you're asking is to allow sins to be in perma stealth, against anything and anyone, with no possibility of being detected and forced out of it? Might as well ask for a GM toon and use their perma stealth cheat. It's already annoying enough that 90% of sins hide in stealth as soon as they are close to death/vulnerable. I think the way it is now is fair on both ends. There are other ways to survive in combat beside hiding in stealth like a chicken. If other classes can do it, so can sins. If you can't survive 30 seconds without depending on stealth you might wanna reconsider your playing skills.​​

blazerboy

iamnotnormal wrote: »

Most people commenting here have bigger **** than me. yes u r coz im female. ur better than me alright.
since most people r fan of rekko's r9+12 +com + wings of ascesion + devil stones...envious people and said they are better than him 99% of the time. i dont know that clicking and pointing + typing is a skill now. oh lord times. they dont really have a useful comment not one bit. lol.

jxshadow. IF SINS CAN'T STEALTH? ARE THEY DB NOW TOO? stealth defines what they are. in 2k spirit fight. the one with better gears always wins. if you can't kill the squishy sin.. that means u don't have gears. or spirit to do so. in a 1v1 fight r9 sin and g16 db. same spirit the db always wins. coz db skills animation and execution is so fast and fluid. unlike the sins slow **** skill animation. db wins coz the dev failed to make sins skills connect with each other and make it more fluid like motion.

well. its in quality corner.. coz. Stealth should work on ? mobs.​​

r9 sin vs 16 db same spirit the db wins lmfao. I just cant stop laughing....

bloodedone87

No stealth for sins. I have something better. Sins gets an ability like Hysteria in Alice Madness Returns. For those that have not play that game hysteria is an ability that can be used when Alice life drops to 10%( I guess 10% since her hp is shown in roses and hysteria can be used when she is left with half of the last rose) and for 30 seconds Alice deal double dmg and she does not take any dmg. Also we give sins Alice dodging abilities.

This is how she dodges :https://youtu.be/nNrX-hbxEBs

This is hysteria: https://youtu.be/iGP99dymDMc

Am I serious?

I think I broke some rules in the forums. Eeeh.

shopcheese

Absolutely perfect. Make it so its auto triggers as well.

ironpwner

Lol xD hello no. Sins already have many ways to kill without having to worry about being easily killed or CCed. They even have paralyze now, so nope, they do not need to nerf detection pots or anything that helps to unstealth them.

Thank Pan Gu they're nerfing Tidal a little bit.

blazerboy

I feel like this person needs more time to get to endgame to see just how powerful sins become. Please let us know what you think in 1yr when you have all passives and atleast r9 +10 maybe vit stone armor

jsxshadow

I highly doubt there is a DB out there that would beat me on a sin in a 1v1, equally geared even once out of 10 fights in the current meta of the game. Seriously. Sin's are so stupidly broken..sure a good DB ends you as soon as tidal is off and you make a mistake..but unless the db is ultra lucky and any CC goes through your Tidal then there is no way you can lose to a Duskblade. No. Nah, forget it. A selfbuffed DB, no matter his gear (if still equal) can tank even 5 seconds of a sin onslaught. Back in the day DBs could at least sport anti-stun to stay alive...but nowadays...bro with paralyze on cursed that won't save you.

KK, easy Sin vs DB fight:

Sin trip sparks + Inner Harmony right after (starts with 5 CP ofc) -> Tele Stun (with paralyze). DB has to react else he dies in the stun duration alone from just a few skills (or at least the chance is high to get a zc charm bypass). Wait out Umbral/IG or both. If the DB doesn't chain both and has AD back up ready when he leaves immunity then he is dead. If you catch any selfbuffed DB with Cursed jail outside of immunity it's gg wp and the fight it over. Cursed Interrupt -> Tackling -> Rising Dragon -> Subsea -> Throatcut -> Condensed -> Earthen and it's ggwp. Unavoidable cept through miss (and lol doesnt happen that often) and the damage is so massive...no LA/AA can survive that if all goes through.

So you tell me again that DB is broken vs Assassins? Now you can **** Purify Spell and anti stun. Trigger genie, use Cursed Jail and you've won. GG WP.

People still just can't friggin play this game decently, have no clue about CC/Combos/anything, really. If I see another thread claiming that sins are too weak I am seriously going to cry.

kalystconquerer#0876

Unless stealth suddenly has broken in a fundamental way (such as it is not working at all or the way that the skill is described is not describing whats actually happening) then this is not a bug. I'll shuttle this thread over to the Suggestion Box area, since this is looking more to recommend changes to the skill.

nightmare201

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

Unless stealth suddenly has broken in a fundamental way (such as it is not working at all or the way that the skill is described is not describing whats actually happening) then this is not a bug. I'll shuttle this thread over to the Suggestion Box area, since this is looking more to recommend changes to the skill.

I can assure you this is simply someone complaining because of a perceived fault with sins that doesn't exist. Sins are quite powerful, as many others have said.

asterelle

Stealth working against ? mobs breaks too many things. You could cross the bridge in DH without killing the Death Wards, you could walk through the entirety of jungle ruins without aggroing the flames, you could stand in the lava areas of UP or just ignore the circling flames you are supposed to dodge on the last boss. Some of the rooms in the Tower would break as well like Portal.


Furthermore stealth in this game is already much stronger than it is in other games..
Most games have mechanics in place to balance how powerful stealth is:
- A visible outline so you can see where stealthed targets are hiding.
- A distance restriction of how close you can get to a target before being spotted.
- Being detected if you travel into well-lit areas.
- Being detected if you approach an enemy from the direction they are facing.
- Speed restrictions while stealthed
- Time restrictions on stealth duration
- The ability to AOE areas where stealthed targets are known to be hiding.

PWI stealth largely doesn't really have any of that. You're just spoiled.​​

blazerboy

^ lmfao