Caster r9r4 boundless weapon

dregenfox

There was a huge thread some months back on the proc rate of R9r4 caster weps, it seemed to end with no real conclusion except to offer a reversion of the wep. Does anyone know if there has been any updates on whether or not the proc rate for purify on the caster boundless weapons is still lower? I'm wondering if it is worth it for casters to recast now, since I'm sure China is aware of it and it would be an easy income source for PWI if they were to change the proc to the US version.

capnk

That would mean changing it for China version, which would cause untold changes over there. US purify is OP, and there is zero good reason to upgrade to boundless weapon. Just go G17 if you want the damage increase since you can get a better pick of procs and stats.

dregenfox

capnk wrote: »

That would mean changing it for China version, which would cause untold changes over there. US purify is OP, and there is zero good reason to upgrade to boundless weapon. Just go G17 if you want the damage increase since you can get a better pick of procs and stats.

The g17 untarget proc is nice but it seems to have a low proc rate as well, so it would honestly be more of a side-grade in terms of proc. And for mystics trading purify for an offensive zerk would be suicide.

I suppose the only real alternative for a weapon upgrade is to wait till G17r5...

blazerboy

@dregenfox the g17 untarget proc is yes lower but cannot even be compared to our version puri spell. For one puri spell can be easily counter via your local paralyze toon now even sins have that yea GG casters now you guys aren't even safe from their thrashing. Only procs that would offer any real relief would be focus mind (but you can still be cc) or untarget which if you have that you can atleast have a chance to get out the cc or counter attack.

Although untarget is worthless unless you are adequately tanky enough to survive until it procs it's still outweighs the usefulness of our versions r9 3rd cast proc by quite a bit aswell. Atleast if you get purged then untarget you have 5 seconds to either reposition or rebuff vs puri spell and you try to but you have your local db/bm/sin/veno/sb (whom also have a aoe para now)/ and a barb who can paralyze you in your tracks and then with a SMALL amount of focus since you're purged kill you. That's 6/12 classes who can do this to you good luck there purify spell....

dregenfox

blazerboy wrote: »

@dregenfox the g17 untarget proc is yes lower but cannot even be compared to our version puri spell. For one puri spell can be easily counter via your local paralyze toon now even sins have that yea GG casters now you guys aren't even safe from their thrashing. Only procs that would offer any real relief would be focus mind (but you can still be cc) or untarget which if you have that you can atleast have a chance to get out the cc or counter attack.

Although untarget is worthless unless you are adequately tanky enough to survive until it procs it's still outweighs the usefulness of our versions r9 3rd cast proc by quite a bit aswell. Atleast if you get purged then untarget you have 5 seconds to either reposition or rebuff vs puri spell and you try to but you have your local db/bm/sin/veno/sb (whom also have a aoe para now)/ and a barb who can paralyze you in your tracks and then with a SMALL amount of focus since you're purged kill you. That's 6/12 classes who can do this to you good luck there purify spell....

Actually I'm hoping the purge proc is a balance problem that gets addressed by China eventually. There's no way venos are the #1 arena class in China when G17 purge is far more reliable in terms of keeping a target purged, and 0d isn't that useful when the target is purged anyway.

The untarget proc is pointless without +80 def lvl because casters won't survive till it procs the majority of the time, unless they're lucky enough to have multiple low-geared newbies bashing on them (but that doesn't happen in arena).

Melee classes are at the state they are in now precisely to counter all the def buffs available to casters, but now casters don't have access to those buffs anymore but melee classes were left the same.

I really hope China doesn't think forcing caster classes to consume 5-10 arigora SOD pots every match is a solution.

blazerboy

@dregenfox ok let's start with the g17 purge weapon what's the problem with it? The arguement of the high proc chance is understandable but what's the issue besides that? Most full buff casters are tankier than LA and can be near as tanky as HA so I see no issue with them having to deal with getting purged just as much as us frontline DDs X_X. Also with how little venos there are it helps with getting specific targets purged

dregenfox

blazerboy wrote: »

@dregenfox ok let's start with the g17 purge weapon what's the problem with it? The arguement of the high proc chance is understandable but what's the issue besides that? Most full buff casters are tankier than LA and can be near as tanky as HA so I see no issue with them having to deal with getting purged just as much as us frontline DDs X_X. Also with how little venos there are it helps with getting specific targets purged

When was the last time you tried to tank a sin with no buffs, and without the crit reduction? That's with LA. The average endgamed caster has a bit more than 20k p.def purged.

There's a HUGE difference between tanking with at least self buffs, vs just getting purged every 4-5 seconds and being forced to tank w/ nothing.

55k->20k p. def is a 2.5x increase in damage taken. That's stronger than HF. Take off the 30% hp bonus as well, and it gets pretty close to 3x effective damage. I've fought against G17 melee purge enough times to know it's game-changing.

It has no business proc'ing once every 5 seconds. Wizards can get a pseudo-equivalent of purge by pumping a dex genie and undine + sparking, but that's only a temporary buff reduction and also takes genie energy. But they can't remove things like ironheart, falling petals, shell, and etc, which the g17 purge is apparently capable of doing with ease.

I guess it won't really matter much until people start getting G17 and seeing for themselves. Everyone is pretty much convinced of "omg +80 def lvl casters will be immortal!!", but it's still years away.

blazerboy

@dregenfox "when was the last time you tried to tank a sin no buffs" same thing that happens everytime I'm in pvp self/purged. I'm dead, that's the whole point of purge. Due to all the passives people got to the point they were damn near immortal. You can watch full Jsod +11 mystics full buff tank 3 endgame sins and other resistance as long he/she isn't perma CC they can survive and not just them. You have wizards reaching high index of pdef due to earth shield. All purge weapons did was make it so super tanky ppl weren't damn near impossible to kill.

A purged arcane yes is at a disadvantage vs Sins and DB but other melee DDs but in fact Zerk on arcanes scale far higher than physical classes. A purge dragoonz takes 50k zerk crit from Nemki and yet both of them have g17.4, both have 2 second RB Nuema portal both have +3 based stones they are pretty equal but purge plus no amp and magic hits that hard lol can't really complain about zerk on g17 phy classes when magic zc is just insane in its own right. Arcanes can get extreme damagespikes and physical can weaken arcane I see no issue just having an80 def wep and defense proc will be scary imo

dregenfox

blazerboy wrote: »

@dregenfox "when was the last time you tried to tank a sin no buffs" same thing that happens everytime I'm in pvp self/purged. I'm dead, that's the whole point of purge. Due to all the passives people got to the point they were damn near immortal. You can watch full Jsod +11 mystics full buff tank 3 endgame sins and other resistance as long he/she isn't perma CC they can survive and not just them. You have wizards reaching high index of pdef due to earth shield. All purge weapons did was make it so super tanky ppl weren't damn near impossible to kill.

A purged arcane yes is at a disadvantage vs Sins and DB but other melee DDs but in fact Zerk on arcanes scale far higher than physical classes. A purge dragoonz takes 50k zerk crit from Nemki and yet both of them have g17.4, both have 2 second RB Nuema portal both have +3 based stones they are pretty equal but purge plus no amp and magic hits that hard lol can't really complain about zerk on g17 phy classes when magic zc is just insane in its own right. Arcanes can get extreme damagespikes and physical can weaken arcane I see no issue just having an80 def wep and defense proc will be scary imo

There's no such thing as a super-tanky caster. Casters literally get auto'ed down by an archer when purged. Stacking buffs was what made them viable. The point of balance was coordinating buffs vs purges and is what gave archers and venos their value. Can you honestly say you'd bring a veno over a DB or sin with purge?

Also, having a purged dragoonz means nemki needed outside help to hit that 50k, because he certainly isn't getting a purge by himself. Think about the setup here. Bringing an offensive caster in a 3v3 means you lose a purge, which amps kill potential by 3x.

Check the calc here. Switch it between lvl 11 buffs and unbuffed, and watch how the phy value changes. The difference is actually higher for casters because the lvl 11 buffs don't include the self-only buffs.

What happens 9/10 times when a veno purges me? I'm already in mid-cast on verdant shield and it's up ~.5 seconds after the purge, because veno can't back it up with cc, and they don't have the damage to threaten a kill aside from getting lucky on a 0 d.

DB gets the purge within 5 seconds, can follow up with uncounterable cc at the same time, then follow up with a 20k nuke. The balance in this game was already pretty bad, but this pretty much makes sins and DB meta the only viable setup.

booker27

Lol if any sin or db thinks purge wep is fine and balanced it just means they suck at playing unless they can use broken game mechs. Rerolling to one of the 2 most broken classes in pwi wasnt enough I guess.

Theres literally no reason to be any class other than sin or db right now. For mass pvp just roll alt sbs and spam vortexes (don't even need gear for that lul) while sins and dbs jump in to aoe. Why get wizards for big aoes when you can have everyone neatly grouped up together. Wel i guess cleric is still good for arena. Just get sin w/ purge, db w/ purge and a cleric for cc in arena and you're golden. Every other class is pointless. Why gamble for 0def when you can have the most effective purges, CC and dmg in one class anyway.

Dont forget lots of heals and defense skills can also be purged so other classes, esp casters have literally no way to survive once their immune is off GGWP. Should I also mention the classes with the most effective purges are those with who can avoid purge the best? Sin tidal GG and dbs have plenty of ways to avoid purge GG vs. lets say a measly veno. Yes dbs can avoid plenty of purges just learn to play.

PvP went from teamwork and coordination to get sins dbs sbs and faceroll your way through. Dam maybe joe was right all along... oh wait sins and dbs are also broken in 1v1 GG

shade13

dregenfox wrote: »

Actually I'm hoping the purge proc is a balance problem that gets addressed by China eventually. There's no way venos are the #1 arena class in China when G17 purge is far more reliable in terms of keeping a target purged, and 0d isn't that useful when the target is purged anyway.

You are hoping in vain. I can tell 10000000% there won't be done anything in that direction. Puri spell era is almost gone and who cares about obsolete weapon? Higher chance that you die in disarm or paralyze than get away on puri proc.

As for Venos Nu.1 in China... I can tell you, that venos is the class which reaches its highest potential at middle gear, not endgame. And since r9rrr is nor that widely spread in China due to expensiveness, venos expectedly rock.
While the endgame level (pwi level) is melee classes' unchallenged domain.

booker27 wrote: »

Lol if any sin or db thinks purge wep is fine and balanced it just means they suck at playing unless they can use broken game mechs. Rerolling to one of the 2 most broken classes in pwi wasnt enough I guess.

Even though I'm a miserable arcane, vulnerable to dbs and sins, this is a funny argument (: Did you ever consider possibility that ppl may sincerely like the class not just because it's OP? Ppl won't admit their class is unfairly benefited. It's natural, you wouldn't too. And of cource it's not the reason not to play the class and enjoy its pros. And if you are easily triggered by the words and bragging... oh well, you should stop being so easily triggered by that
Reminded me someone saying ages ago: "I don't want to play veno because I will purge and people will hate me for that" Silly.


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blazerboy

@dregenfox I honestly thought we were talking about g17 weapons effectively not squad matchups but alright I'm beginning to see what's actually bothering you I suppose. No such thing as a super tanky casters? Really..... what in your opinion constitutes as a reasonable amount of focus on a caster for it to go down? By reasonable I hope you dont mean 4-5+ people on one fully buffed caster w.o purge is reasonable assuming you don't have anyone in that gank who can paralyze or cc. The point I'm getting at is everyone purged is super vulnerable not just casters. I'll be honest, I can get purged by a archer and randomly a sin cursed jail me zerk crit most of the sins dead so I understand how frustrating getting purged is but I do not see how it's the weapons fault.

All classes get something new and quite dangerous to the playing field. I believe even Aeilah uploaded a video full buff dragon zerk crit him magic over 32k... On a fully buff cast? O.O I understand the gear disparity was high but still it's a caster I'm sure we all didn't see that coming from magic ZC.... Clerics who untarget can be purge weapon proc by the time they show up can fully rebuff themselves and if their support is paying attention regroup and cover them. Hell isn't there a video of a certain barb with focus mind proc being nearly unkillable by a faction a dragon in xTW and securing the win through attrition? Ijs it's just just purge which can give a massive edge.

@booker27 I think you made it obvious that you aren't here to discuss weapons but complain about sins and db. So use a alt sb to spam vortexes? Well sb ultimate is not spamable so we won't count that but we can talk about normal. So sins and db jump in to aoe? Sin Subsea earthen rift combo won't kill you anymore unless a massive disparity in gear, at that point you know the problem. Duskblade can use Eternity for chance of 2 sec stun,settling ripple for 4 sec paralyze and slash of pride for 9 sec disArm. On the bright side this is just aoe cc not too bad because these skills won't deal much damage equal geared. So all in all it's not just db/sin who can follow up this kind of combo. You can have a bm Roar for disarm and stun then DG or even veno nova instead of dg it's just coordination. You're literally just complaining about coordination there which how is that a db/sin fault what? Lol if your sb is letting you know when and where their vortex are coming up any group can capitalize on this. So sin tidal yes at 66% (let's call this the standard since most sins are sage on the majority of servers I think we can agree on that) yes tidal can block quiet a few debuff but still RnG but not to mention the many stealths they have ok. Duskblades can silence dread(stealth), shadow form and demon if you cast DEMON settling ripple BEFORE the veno clicks purge but if they already channeled more than half of it I believe you can get purged just as if you clicked AD. So what other method waste ultimate just to be able to use one of these skills to avoid purge? Ok I don't think you know much on what a skilled db is then. You're honestly saying it as if classes outside these two don't have their own methods. Archer leaps/stealth,bm leaps,wizard stealthing themselves constantly to get untargeted, Sb lunar blessing come now other classes has defenses agian venos. If you wish to make a point that's fine but making it CONPLETELY obvious you're just bias agianst db/sin just sounds like you're looking for a reason to hate

dregenfox

blazerboy wrote: »

@dregenfox I honestly thought we were talking about g17 weapons effectively not squad matchups but alright I'm beginning to see what's actually bothering you I suppose. No such thing as a super tanky casters? Really..... what in your opinion constitutes as a reasonable amount of focus on a caster for it to go down? By reasonable I hope you dont mean 4-5+ people on one fully buffed caster w.o purge is reasonable assuming you don't have anyone in that gank who can paralyze or cc. The point I'm getting at is everyone purged is super vulnerable not just casters. I'll be honest, I can get purged by a archer and randomly a sin cursed jail me zerk crit most of the sins dead so I understand how frustrating getting purged is but I do not see how it's the weapons fault.

All classes get something new and quite dangerous to the playing field. I believe even Aeilah uploaded a video full buff dragon zerk crit him magic over 32k... On a fully buff cast? O.O I understand the gear disparity was high but still it's a caster I'm sure we all didn't see that coming from magic ZC.... Clerics who untarget can be purge weapon proc by the time they show up can fully rebuff themselves and if their support is paying attention regroup and cover them. Hell isn't there a video of a certain barb with focus mind proc being nearly unkillable by a faction a dragon in xTW and securing the win through attrition? Ijs it's just just purge which can give a massive edge.

@booker27 I think you made it obvious that you aren't here to discuss weapons but complain about sins and db. So use a alt sb to spam vortexes? Well sb ultimate is not spamable so we won't count that but we can talk about normal. So sins and db jump in to aoe? Sin Subsea earthen rift combo won't kill you anymore unless a massive disparity in gear, at that point you know the problem. Duskblade can use Eternity for chance of 2 sec stun,settling ripple for 4 sec paralyze and slash of pride for 9 sec disArm. On the bright side this is just aoe cc not too bad because these skills won't deal much damage equal geared. So all in all it's not just db/sin who can follow up this kind of combo. You can have a bm Roar for disarm and stun then DG or even veno nova instead of dg it's just coordination. You're literally just complaining about coordination there which how is that a db/sin fault what? Lol if your sb is letting you know when and where their vortex are coming up any group can capitalize on this. So sin tidal yes at 66% (let's call this the standard since most sins are sage on the majority of servers I think we can agree on that) yes tidal can block quiet a few debuff but still RnG but not to mention the many stealths they have ok. Duskblades can silence dread(stealth), shadow form and demon if you cast DEMON settling ripple BEFORE the veno clicks purge but if they already channeled more than half of it I believe you can get purged just as if you clicked AD. So what other method waste ultimate just to be able to use one of these skills to avoid purge? Ok I don't think you know much on what a skilled db is then. You're honestly saying it as if classes outside these two don't have their own methods. Archer leaps/stealth,bm leaps,wizard stealthing themselves constantly to get untargeted, Sb lunar blessing come now other classes has defenses agian venos. If you wish to make a point that's fine but making it CONPLETELY obvious you're just bias agianst db/sin just sounds like you're looking for a reason to hate

You're not comparing the tankiness of casters to other classes.

LA and HA are tankier than AA will ever be. The typical LA can hit 35k+ hp easily while that requires literally maxed out full +12 + COM on a caster. Yes you need 2-3 people to take down a buffed caster but seekers/BM's/Barbs can tank an entire squad and still come out alive. I've seen DB's draw out an arena match for a full 10 minutes because they have tankiness + a million escapes. It's ridiculous.

The only thing you need to kill even a buffed caster is paralyze and a slight amount of coordination.

blazerboy

@dregenfox I wouldn't describe tankiness by overall hp correct me if I'm wrong but LA gets about 40k at full +12 CoM and AA about what 35k? 5k does not seem that much when the anyone but a psychic can wellover surpass LA pdef/mdef by quite a bit especially mystics/sb/wizards and I believe clerics and augment their pdef to reach high levels. For only 5k less hp? That doesn't sound too bad. Now I understand arcanes don't have as much cc that's the diff and sins now can control arcanes via cursed jail that certainly does give a disadvantage but that's why untarget is very nice it force some heat off of you. A million escapes where do you see a million escapes db has? Umbral 90 sec CD, silence dread 90 sec copy 60 sec for 3/5 stealth ultimate repeat but that pretty much tanks chi and at that point no chi means dead db not much difference from mystic instant heals/falling petals or wiz distant shrink every class has their exploits tbh

dregenfox

blazerboy wrote: »

@dregenfox I wouldn't describe tankiness by overall hp correct me if I'm wrong but LA gets about 40k at full +12 CoM and AA about what 35k? 5k does not seem that much when the anyone but a psychic can wellover surpass LA pdef/mdef by quite a bit especially mystics/sb/wizards and I believe clerics and augment their pdef to reach high levels. For only 5k less hp? That doesn't sound too bad. Now I understand arcanes don't have as much cc that's the diff and sins now can control arcanes via cursed jail that certainly does give a disadvantage but that's why untarget is very nice it force some heat off of you. A million escapes where do you see a million escapes db has? Umbral 90 sec CD, silence dread 90 sec copy 60 sec for 3/5 stealth ultimate repeat but that pretty much tanks chi and at that point no chi means dead db not much difference from mystic instant heals/falling petals or wiz distant shrink every class has their exploits tbh

None of those self buffs matter when people are getting purged once every 4-5 seconds. AA has the lowest phy res and the lowest hp values of all 3 armor types. The tradeoff for having such low defenses is buffs, but those are no longer relevant with G17 spam. Untarget proc makes no difference because it's available to all classes and will **** over casters just as much when it procs on a melee target.

In any case since we're talking about PWI it doesn't really matter. This game was not developed with balance considerations in mind.

DB played optimally simply has no counterplay in 1v1, the moment someone genies out of the cc chain the DB just flips the camera around and presses w for a free 50% damage reduction. Or just stealth and wait it out if they don't feel like taking damage. It doesn't matter to them because they can just instantly teleport to wherever they need to be whenever they feel like it.

There are some DB's who don't get it and just play the class like a barb but it's not hard to figure out how to break the class balance-wise.

blazerboy

@dregenfox in that respect a lot of classes in 1v1 can be very dangerous if played well let's not go there that's more a topic joe would prefer. The tradeoff for that is range and magic never misses tbh not buffs. W.o self buffs magic is the lowest but for the most part magic classes have fairly decent defense self buff except psychics can be argued there and maybe sb but then there's reaper form but that's limited selfbuffwise. Still if you're atleast equally geared with a untarget wep you can potentially get out cc untarget/focus mind proc were never meant to be able to save if your gear is sub par compared to enemies where you can literally die in one combo without genie. Even when I get purged by sins I don't die in 1 combo it's more 1-2 combos or even kill some arcanes in one combo after they purged unless I get lucky with zerk crits

dregenfox

blazerboy wrote: »

@dregenfox in that respect a lot of classes in 1v1 can be very dangerous if played well let's not go there that's more a topic joe would prefer. The tradeoff for that is range and magic never misses tbh not buffs. W.o self buffs magic is the lowest but for the most part magic classes have fairly decent defense self buff except psychics can be argued there and maybe sb but then there's reaper form but that's limited selfbuffwise. Still if you're atleast equally geared with a untarget wep you can potentially get out cc untarget/focus mind proc were never meant to be able to save if your gear is sub par compared to enemies where you can literally die in one combo without genie. Even when I get purged by sins I don't die in 1 combo it's more 1-2 combos or even kill some arcanes in one combo after they purged unless I get lucky with zerk crits

Range makes no difference to DB. They can actually start dealing damage to a target 25 meters away twice as fast as it takes a caster, because the tradeoff of magic is long channel + cast times. By the time a caster finishes channeling + casting a 2s spell the DB has already teleported + casted a skill and started his channel on the next skill. Wasting time kiting a DB is actually pretty counter-productive, tbh. Being 20m away with holy path + antistun active means nothing.

Also a purged DB is at least 40-50% tankier than a caster due to their self-buff being unpurge-able + 15% more hp + more p. def. If it takes 1-2 combos to kill you it takes 1 to kill a purged caster (unless they get really unlucky and don't zerk crit even once).

eirghan

What other class in the game has 6 escapes without genie apoth xD its effectively a million because unless the db is played badly the db will have 3 or 4 more left after youre dead. Unless youre a sin probably the only counter to db is more people.

I cant comment on g17 because i am not there yet, but if you are looking at r94, personally i would say its not worth it even with the current disarm/paralyze meta. That is my personal choice though, there are a few who have chosen r94 and they do fine with it. But if you think theres little difference make no mistake, 5% puri proc vs 15% is huge.

Here is the original thread. I know at least one of those people who were planning to keep r94 actually ended up switching back because, i would guess, the difference was too massive and negatively impacted pvp.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/pwi/#/discussion/1205686/boundless-purify-proc-and-is-boundless-worth-it

And yes, like the above, the answer was "it wont be fixed so heres a limited time option to revert your weapon (and lose the money you spent getting it)"

jsxshadow

@blazerboy I think the increase of Purge weapons is a massive issue. The reason for that is that it allows squad setups to be very potent in terms of killing people whilst they normally would struggle very hard if it wasnt for purge. Like Cleric, Mystic and Duskblade. This setup would be incredible tanky and nearly impossible to kill. Now if you give them the chance to even purge others then there is no disadvantage anymore and the win rate is over 9000!!!

Such reliable/high-chance purge messes up certain matchup very much. A majority of ppl would die oneshot without full buffs..only a minority is that tanky even buffless. Just look at my 3v3 team..if incu could purge and would be lucky about it..holy moly..we've never struggle vs clerics ever again because sin or DB with purge on a caster means that the caster is dead if genie is in CD when it procs. That is 100% guaranteed.

There just shouldnt be such easy ways to kill people without real disadvantages. Just my opinion tho I still like 1v1 far more due to obvious reasons xD

kalystconquerer#0876

CN still believes purify to be the same across all the weapons even when I did the additional in house testing and videos replicating @eirghan experiments. Before people go down that road again, no, what was provided was not insufficient, but having the additional internal confirmation alongside all of the other videos that came up in that thread made it so that we could elect to allow people a limited time change over for the specifically affected classes (purify spell weapons specifically).

dregenfox

jsxshadow wrote: »

40-50% tankier than a caster due to a SQUAD buff...

Ok. Lets leave the unpurgeable squad buff that requires a DB alone and just go for stats. DB has 15% more hp and taking 10% less physical damage than a caster when both are purged. That's still a 35% increase in survivability. Add in the crit protection and that number is way higher than 40-50%.

blazerboy

@dregenfox if we talking about purgeable buffs ig Soul of Silence of endgame psy with about every 2-3 another silence is completely broken or the fact a barb/veno can camp a tankier form w.e they feel like it. Endgame sins/dbs with purge still can struggle to kill untargeted chars due to disarm resetting the wep CD and support class defenses

eirghan

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

CN still believes purify to be the same across all the weapons even when I did the additional in house testing and videos replicating @eirghan experiments. Before people go down that road again, no, what was provided was not insufficient, but having the additional internal confirmation alongside all of the other videos that came up in that thread made it so that we could elect to allow people a limited time change over for the specifically affected classes (purify spell weapons specifically).

On whether it was sufficient... Given that we understand this was a gesture of good faith from PWE based on limited testing and in contradiction to what PWCN believes regarding their procs, i believe what was given was good. I am thankful I have my weapon back. Especially considering that we basically sign over any rights to what we purchase in the TOS and I accept that here PWE is taking the customer's word over their game creator. And thats major.

However, when looking at it from the angle of the average consumer who ignores the issues of which company owns what etc when an average consumer purchases in good faith items in the ballpark of 400$USD and receives something different than what was suggested, being given the old weapon (with shards and refines but sans the 400$USD spent on the upgrade) this is only good service when comparing it to PWE customer service in the past, and not when comparing it to other similar titles on the market OR real life purchases of goods or services. Other titles would have the ability to patch or at least label issues for customers appropriately and in accordance with advertisement laws, whether they legally have to or not. Real life, you are sold something faulty or a service isnt performed properly you get your money back and often times more as a gesture that the company values your business and they are sorry they messed up.

PWE customers beat dead horses.... because a discrepancy between two versions of the same thing at such a large price tag, with no label warning future consumers, is not something the average gamer expects to have left forgotten. Only in the strange land of PWI are these discrepancies common enough that we all must check a long forgotten trail on the forums before we buy anything.

PW players have long accepted that they freely sign over their thousands (sometimes hundreds of thousands) when they buy zen, and anything bought with it, even if it doesn't match description. We know it is basically up to the goodness in PWEs heart to fix any discrepancies, like in this case. Knowing that any gesture made to correct something mislabeled is a raaaaaaaaaare gift from the PW gods rather than something we are owed as consumers under law creates a community who is perpetually suspicious when buying things. I know I myself now do not upgrade or buy anything for a long time, sometimes months after release. I am one of the rare few seekers who have the original "Last Stand" because of my new caution with PWE changes. And I'm sorry to report that many more seekers are still stuck with this inferior "upgrade" with no ability to revert. But I digress.

Where was the public announcement made on the news page, or the changes to the labels in game, that makes customers aware there IS a likely difference between r93 and r94? There isn't one that I've seen, likely because how can you advertise something that your game creator swears up and down isn't true? But It is because of this nature of these purchases and rarity of corrections in misinformation or broken game mechanics that leave it up to us to get educated before we buy (or get stuck).

And it's for that reason you can't really blame people for wanting to triple check that nothing has changed (or that it has) before they click the buy (or upgrade) button.​​

dregenfox

eirghan wrote: »

And it's for that reason you can't really blame people for wanting to triple check that nothing has changed (or that it has) before they click the buy (or upgrade) button.​​

This is the reason I still haven't upgraded to befuddling creeper. The increased cast time + chi cost is horrendous. What mystic has 2.5 seconds to cast what basically amounts to the same slow as nature's vengenace? It does nothing to melee, and casters just purify proc out of it because of the stinging plant hitting them for 7 damage. We're spending resources to buy a downgraded skill that literally helps the enemy and consumes your chi. You can't even use it in PVE because it'll overwrite more useful buffs. And it STILL doesn't work correctly with lysing to this very day.

And, big surprise, the new update broke 3 core mystic skills so that they are non-functional. Not even slightly bugged, they just don't work. And there was nothing I can do about it even though I saw it coming in my first arena match when I tested group-select and salvation.

I wasn't even surprised when it happened and it's sad that I don't expect it to get fixed anytime soon. It honestly just broke any desire I had to support this game.

blazerboy

@dregenfox I do wish we can revert skills I got the "upgraded" everlasting ode without realizing I HAD to rune it for the 15 reduction of chi and at this state of glyph there's no reason to glyph that skill now I gain 25 chi and the enemy loses 5 chi per cast I preferred my gain 15 enemy loses 15 I dropped the ball on this one in too much a rush to get skills Ik many dbs did aswell but you are completely right we should wait and see before getting skills

jsxshadow

blazerboy wrote: »

@dregenfox I do wish we can revert skills I got the "upgraded" everlasting ode without realizing I HAD to rune it for the 15 reduction of chi and at this state of glyph there's no reason to glyph that skill now I gain 25 chi and the enemy loses 5 chi per cast I preferred my gain 15 enemy loses 15 I dropped the ball on this one in too much a rush to get skills Ik many dbs did aswell but you are completely right we should wait and see before getting skills

I've seen the disadvantages and yet I still did the upgrades because I don't mind it much. Once the glyphs reach higher levels (even 5 is already enough) it gets alot better so it's no biggy for me.

Besides if you wanna use different effects in different situations you have no choice but to "upgrade" certain skills that were a bit better before. Take BitC of Mystics for example..Demon Version gave way more chi on average but if you upgrade the rune the skill gets insane with chi and I love it..Also like the attack version of the skill for PvE content. It's good that not all skills are braindead upgrades and that they have some kind of balancing to them. Sure there are other skills which are just downright stupid..but hey Nothing unexpected here xD

blazerboy

@jsxshadow like the fact mystics can deactivate genie.... wolo get yourself a db and a mystic same squad AA something not a barb or a TIDALED sin gg wp bye