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Guard Meter Bonuses Don't Work
kreicus
Member Posts: 76
So. I've done some testing and realized that the Shield Talent, and Indomitable Armor (PVP) +Guard Meter bonuses are not working, at all. Assuming the same for the new Tier 2 PVP armor in Gauntlgrym. The total average blocked with +0% to the guard meter was 22253. The total average blocked with +35% guard meter was 21959. Resulting in 294 LESS blocked with the guard meter bonuses. So we can safely say that there is 0 change with the "bonuses" added.
Bonus:
0%
1675
1658
1671
2584
2080
836
796
846
4015
4210
1978
796
846
3964
4072
836
3938
4039
1999
3982
836
4098
4083
5144
4067
4245
796
846
3933
3939
3992
3985
4142
2031
4222
4058
3945
4077
1998
Average
20383
24366
22529
21639
22350
22253
Bonus:
+35%
1663
1990
1670
1627
1581
798
4019
823
831
829
798
4093
2026
831
829
4146
2049
823
4019
4140
4173
4225
4066
3978
4229
798
4225
823
831
829
2028
4216
2500
4080
4093
2025
4111
4046
4162
4116
4188
2469
Average
22659
20601
20588
22916
23032
21959
Bonus:
0%
1675
1658
1671
2584
2080
836
796
846
4015
4210
1978
796
846
3964
4072
836
3938
4039
1999
3982
836
4098
4083
5144
4067
4245
796
846
3933
3939
3992
3985
4142
2031
4222
4058
3945
4077
1998
Average
20383
24366
22529
21639
22350
22253
Bonus:
+35%
1663
1990
1670
1627
1581
798
4019
823
831
829
798
4093
2026
831
829
4146
2049
823
4019
4140
4173
4225
4066
3978
4229
798
4225
823
831
829
2028
4216
2500
4080
4093
2025
4111
4046
4162
4116
4188
2469
Average
22659
20601
20588
22916
23032
21959
Post edited by kreicus on
0
Comments
LOL. This is quite sad.
gooby
y
pls
Now I'm wondering wtf these responses even mean. One made no sense, the other might make sense if i knew what it was saying.
EDIT: I read all of toughguylol's GF posts,...they're all anti GF Tank. In case you read this again. I'm full Conqueror Spec with Stalwart/Timeless Sets. I play DPS...just thought I'd test the guard mechanics
thank you for working out the math for it, lord knows my lazy *** wouldnt have
Thanks for taking the time to actually get #'s but figured it was like this anyways since I never noticed any benefit to block%.
Because of the diminishing returns the only thing that a GF has going for it for tanking is the shield. I wanted to see how much you could buff a shield and if it'd be worth going that route to be more of a tank, but without the the +guard meter working, I really cant tell for sure.
For simply math, say you block ~20,000 damage, ~8 hits with a full guard meter.
+15% From Talent: ~23,000 - 1 to 2 more hits
+35% From Talent and Tier 1 PvP: ~27,000 - 2 to 3 more hits.
+40% From Talent and Tier 2 PvP: ~28,000 - 3 to 4 more hits.
+40% as above and Shieldmaster Talent (10% reduced guard loss): ~30,000 - 4 more hits.
So, obviously, fully specced for it you can block 50% more stuff. But only the last talent, Shieldmaster, which is the lowest gain, is the only thing you'd need to spec out of conqueror to get. So it doesn't seem like a good reason to not go conqueror.
Sorry for the long explanation, much of it was giving myself proof of why its really not worth it
Really?? Bud did you also test with shield talent alone? I always slot it for boss fights and pvp but never actually tried to go without it and see if i'll survive less =/
With no shield talent they hit me on average for 09-10 times before guard is broken.
With shield talent on they hit me on average for 12-13 times before guard is broken.
With no shield talent + Set bonus from Indomitable (+20% guard meter) they hit me on average for 13-14 times before guard is broken.
With shield talent + Set bonus from Indomitable (+20 guard meter) they hit me on average for 12-13 times before guard is broken.
Using both Shield talent + Set bonus from Indomitable seems to nullify each other in some way.
I suggest you ONLY use the set bonus from Indomitable (+20 guard meter) and another Class Feature than Shield Talent until this bug is fixed. I think i will go for Reactive armor, the one that reflects 3% damage back to attacker.
Shield Talent do give you extra guard meter but it wont stack with set bonus from Indomitable. If you use another GF armor set then using shield talent should be fine.
i tried protector build before its guard meter last longer ( up to 1/3) than GF without guard improving feat
but it is still useless everyone knows that guard is useless against lots of mobs i only use it to block boss strong skills and knocking skills
most usefull path for GF are tactician and conqueror
protector? makes you just a little tougher still cant protect yourself from lots of mobs
This doesn't make much sense to me. It's not the amount of hits you're blocking it's the amount of damage. In my testing it was against Drow Assassins, all the small numbers were their throwing knife/poison abilities and the big numbers were their big slow sword swings. Where I took up to 9 hits, many of them were small damages, whereas when i took ~6 hits it was more larger damaging attacks. Both my examples show 6-9 hits doing ~ same damage before the guard fell. Going by number of hits doesn't really prove anything.
Did you read that i wrote on AVERAGE.. this means i took the average from 10 encounters with EACH setup on the exact same grp of mobs. I saw the difference and see no need to put down numbers. Point is Shield Talent and Indomitable do NOT stack, but they should!
Sure they stack, 0 plus 0 is 0.
In my numbers they hit 6-9 times. But the times they hit 9 times is pretty much doe to those 3 smaller numbers, which I'm 90% sure is the poison dot they put on me. So I guess they hit 6 times with instant damage. They do this with or without any bonuses.
The thing that is likely throwing people off is that Guard can prevent WAY more damage than it looks like, which can mess up tests trying to count total damage, or number of hits. You can only lose so much Guard meter in a single hit, past that amount and the damage is thrown away. The Combat log does not display this information terribly well, and there is no ETA on when it would.
Currently having more meter allows you to soak up that many more smaller attacks, but will have less impact when you are hit by very damaging attacks, since much of that damage is ignored rather than absorbed by your guard meter.
It's possible that Guard Max needs to have a bigger impact on how much meter you can lose at once, but right this moment it does not. Certainly will be considered though.
Guard uses this "Guard chunk" approach since if Guard was actually an incredibly deep pool, soaking up every point of damage, it would mean that smaller attacks could never move the meter. With the chunk approach, both big and small attacks can actually affect your Guard meter.
Hope this helps clears it up a bit.
The chunks are currently based on percentage of your guard, so are less impacted by Guard increases.
The chunks likely need to be a bit more tied into Guard bonuses so that extra guard can be better appreciated in more circumstances.
Thanks for keepin an eye on the forums and for the reply lordgallen!
EDIT: Anyone still following this thread, more information can be found here: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?380032-This-is-how-Block-works