Control Wizards primarily focus on controlling the battlefield and dealing damage to a large number of creatures simultaneously. Because of the wizard's role as a controller, they possess more crowd control options than any other class. Their ability to deal high amounts of damage gives them the secondary role of striker. They wield a magical orb and are capable of unleashing torrents of damage on enemy parties. They can only wear cloth armor. - Direct from Neverwinter Wiki Control Wizard page
No one has said that CWs shouldn't be able to do good dps, good players/good geared players find ways to do good dps but average players with mediocre gear should not be able to do the best damage in a dungeon.
You fail to understand why DG was a problem. It was because with one feat you could get plenty of DPS then go IV sent and be nigh invulnerable too. GWfs now get great DPS but can be kind of fragile. If you think CW's controlis bad you whould try...... EVERY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME. I happen to know their control was fine past Mod4 because I was using one. Everyone's control is dimi9nished Mod6 this is true. But when you play a class that has a dozen utility powers complaining about a loss of DPS just sounds like whining.
+1. and that gwfs in general are expensive destroyers-sword masters, by the way. using a very specific rotation. is like a one eye guy complain because the mute can see... pure revenge or pride. no one objective argument.
Here's a very simple example off the top of my head.
Ranger uses Rain of Arrows.
CW then uses Oppressive Force.
Oh look, the mobs are now not only spread all over the place (The complete Opposite of control by the way), but you've actually messed up what your party is attempting to do.
Compared to say, a CW that uses Singularity or Furious Immolation to bring the mobs closer together, then the HR fires his Arrows into the pack of mobs instead of missing completely due to one CW wanting to get top DPS.
yes, cws and rogues have the behaviour to "run to the inside" the mobs and use your cc . but rogues will daze/aggro (good thing for the party). cws, spread and sustain that position (it+of+st). every video about cw is the same behaviour. in game, in fact you see a lot of cws using very well your range/cc to do the general job better. is not something about "what power use" but how use that power. but is really, really hard do a mess using Singularity or Furious Immolation. give more easy cc tools is not a problem im my opinion.
back to the main problem: i dont will have much things to do w/o the farm things. well, i will wait for some 2xrp event and see if the effort will have return.
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited June 2015
Is CW's SS nerf equivilent to GWF's prone being taken away at Mod 3 or CAGI/DS being nerfed at mod5 and again mod6?
This change is not a surprise to me. The entire philosophy behind game balance in this game is the opposite you see in a lot of other games, the idea of 'Power Creep'. This is something I've stated a lot in PE main chat but I think this change should really strike home with people, and finally get them to face up to this design philosophy.
However, having said that, I'm fine with this change. CW should be more about control, in many ways they have had it easy up until now, comparative with other classes, so the fact that people have to change the way they play to be more control focused can only be a good thing. I do expect other things will get buffed if this is too much of a change in the negative, but SS was a far too generous feature, and I say this as a CW player primarily.
Is CW's SS nerf equivilent to GWF's prone being taken away at Mod 3 or CAGI/DS being nerfed at mod5 and again mod6?
^ This.
Classes get buffed, Classes get nerfed,
I wasn't happy with the GWF nerfs in mod 4 and 5 and the CAGI/DS nerf in mod 6, But I adapted. The ONLY thing GWF does is phat DPS, it doesn't really control, It doesn't tank (reliably) Its "buff" skills are pretty <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (other than HD, which is far too strong imo) and its debuff is just copied from GF.
Suck it up, try out other builds that don't rely on all the damage coming from one passive, and stick to the class roots. When Lostmauth gets its nerf (I mean, seriously, this set IS SO OP, that classes that dont even benefit from its stats use it!) Everyone will complain again, but they know its going to happen. People who try out other strategies or think outside the box are the ones who help shape the new meta. I remember when CW had the mindset that Thaum was the only way to go, and that renegade was useless, Now everyone loves renegade because someone tried something different. People still say bad things about Oppressor, yet theres multiple videos of a CW using an oppressor build successfully. and hey, you can still go Negation + shield and be pretty much magneto.
Live, Learn, Adapt.
People who try out other strategies or think outside the box are the ones who help shape the new meta. I remember when CW had the mindset that Thaum was the only way to go, and that renegade was useless. People still say bad things about oppressor, yet theres multiple videos of a CW using an oppressor build successfully.
Live, Learn, Adapt.
Did you ever hear about the guy who killed his parents and wanted sympathy for being an orphan? Stormspell got buffed because they took so much damage off the encounters. It was a compensation.
As for adapt. I hate to break it to you but switching to renegade wasn't an adaptation the devs buffed it, we saw it was more efficient and we moved. This isn't rocketscience. Your roleplaying a strategic thinker is pretty amusing though. After an unpleasant nerf announcement its most welcome. Have an apple.
Icewind Dale: Heroic Encounter rewards have been reduced.
Trickster Rogue Rare primary weapons level 61+ are not only usable in the main hand.
I see. So people farm to much and stop to buy from bots. So now drop is reduced. That's makes sense.
Is that a fixing of bug, that Tr's can use enchants (vorpals for example) on both - main and offhand? Or something else?
Seems like he is saying "You just upgraded the RP drops 2 days ago and made it something we could farm but you comically decided to take it away for no reason, so why did you add it in the first place?"
I predicted, about 4 patches ago when AoS stopped working that if anything like that ever happened to CWs you would hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth across Faerun. I want to thank the devs and contributers to this thread for confirming once again how brilliant I am
Only reason i played Spellstorm Mage was for Storm Spell and previous for Eye of the Storm (before the nerf).
Without StormSpell there is no real reason to play it. Storm Pillar? Maelstrom of Chaos? Maybe Storm Fury in pvp if you are tanky enough.
MoF Critical Conflagration just looks better and better.
I predicted, about 4 patches ago when AoS stopped working that if anything like that ever happened to CWs you would hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth across Faerun. I want to thank the devs and contributers to this thread for confirming once again how brilliant I am
Only reason i played Spellstorm Mage was for Storm Spell and previous for Eye of the Storm (before the nerf).
Without StormSpell there is no real reason to play it. Storm Pillar? Maelstrom of Chaos? Maybe Storm Fury in pvp if you are tanky enough.
MoF Critical Conflagration just looks better and better.
That's right but nothing cw has test MoF just need try ^^
Finally a patch that worth this name.
Cw had rly too much burst dmg and in the same time too much tanky, so nothing to say about this nerf, 100% agree.
The hope all we have is to nerf piercing dmg of tr now, coz it s rly embarassing, they just press 1 button and kill evrything,and this is something that in mmo/rpg games should never exist,so let s hope DEVS finally understand that.
If they will do it, and fix trascendent enchant bug, after 1 years, finally, we had more or less all classes balanced!!!!
So this time 10 stars for this patch.
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lukejones77Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
edited June 2015
Sooooo disappointed with the CW SS change.
This is a *massive* change to the build, and to all the time, effort and cost that has been put into switching to the Lostmauth/crit build virtually mandated by the changes of mod 6.
Why do it?
For PvP? To make those who like playing Mof/Controller happier and more justified/wanted? To make other classes happy? Anyone who knows what's going on knows that TRs and SWs are readily out-DPSing equivalent geared (and less geared) CWs, and that GWFs are way in excess of the CW, even with *significantly* less gear.
Cryptic sent a clear message that CWs do have a damage tree previous 2 mods (saved a massive PR issue when all else got nerfed, by saving it with SS). Now, SS is getting nerfed in a manner that looks set to kill off the SpellStorm damage tree. So, we're back to that. It's even worse this time, since much has been done to reduce Control effectiveness, and by the way, notice how many significant Control capability is now available to other classes?
To put this massive change to CWs into context, many put huge effort into making epic gear from mod 5, then we trashed that to move to Lostmauth for mod 6, and now another massive wasting of our efforts even before module 7?
The backdrop to that being how extremely difficult it is to make AD now, and how difficult it is to get the necessary RP (IWD RP nerfed this patch).
Can somebody take on honest stab at describing how this can be fair to the player that has taken his CW through these changes? This at a time when I thought PR would be the company focus (massively troubled mod 6 release), rather than taking a sledge hammer to a significant part of the playing community.
I really don't have the energy to do it all again anywhere near this soon, and I'm pretty sure there's a massive CW community that will feel the same way.
A long control duration is not permitted because pve/pvp would be too easy.
If one CW could control for a long time, then 2-3 CW could do permanent or almost permanent control.
Icy Terrain is an exception.
Trapper HR roots is an exception.
Any other exceptions?
By the way, I use a GWF. I´m waiting for a patch that buff that class because I´m week as a leaf since you decide that the Life Steal was too much OP.
Mmmhhhh...GWF is one of the best classes. Espacially since mod 6. I guess you do something wrong. A good gwf got no problems at all to level/quest or kill mobs.
Comments
where is nerf of GF super damage?? and thief permanent stealth??
+1. and that gwfs in general are expensive destroyers-sword masters, by the way. using a very specific rotation. is like a one eye guy complain because the mute can see... pure revenge or pride. no one objective argument.
yes, cws and rogues have the behaviour to "run to the inside" the mobs and use your cc . but rogues will daze/aggro (good thing for the party). cws, spread and sustain that position (it+of+st). every video about cw is the same behaviour. in game, in fact you see a lot of cws using very well your range/cc to do the general job better. is not something about "what power use" but how use that power. but is really, really hard do a mess using Singularity or Furious Immolation. give more easy cc tools is not a problem im my opinion.
back to the main problem: i dont will have much things to do w/o the farm things. well, i will wait for some 2xrp event and see if the effort will have return.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Thanks for the changes to tenacity too
However, having said that, I'm fine with this change. CW should be more about control, in many ways they have had it easy up until now, comparative with other classes, so the fact that people have to change the way they play to be more control focused can only be a good thing. I do expect other things will get buffed if this is too much of a change in the negative, but SS was a far too generous feature, and I say this as a CW player primarily.
thats correct, 90% of stuns dont work when work its for 1s wtf
^ This.
Classes get buffed, Classes get nerfed,
I wasn't happy with the GWF nerfs in mod 4 and 5 and the CAGI/DS nerf in mod 6, But I adapted. The ONLY thing GWF does is phat DPS, it doesn't really control, It doesn't tank (reliably) Its "buff" skills are pretty <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (other than HD, which is far too strong imo) and its debuff is just copied from GF.
Suck it up, try out other builds that don't rely on all the damage coming from one passive, and stick to the class roots. When Lostmauth gets its nerf (I mean, seriously, this set IS SO OP, that classes that dont even benefit from its stats use it!) Everyone will complain again, but they know its going to happen. People who try out other strategies or think outside the box are the ones who help shape the new meta. I remember when CW had the mindset that Thaum was the only way to go, and that renegade was useless, Now everyone loves renegade because someone tried something different. People still say bad things about Oppressor, yet theres multiple videos of a CW using an oppressor build successfully. and hey, you can still go Negation + shield and be pretty much magneto.
Live, Learn, Adapt.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Ha ha ha...i think i found my new top signatur quote ^^. Thx.
Did you ever hear about the guy who killed his parents and wanted sympathy for being an orphan? Stormspell got buffed because they took so much damage off the encounters. It was a compensation.
As for adapt. I hate to break it to you but switching to renegade wasn't an adaptation the devs buffed it, we saw it was more efficient and we moved. This isn't rocketscience. Your roleplaying a strategic thinker is pretty amusing though. After an unpleasant nerf announcement its most welcome. Have an apple.
I see. So people farm to much and stop to buy from bots. So now drop is reduced. That's makes sense.
Is that a fixing of bug, that Tr's can use enchants (vorpals for example) on both - main and offhand? Or something else?
.Suicide Squad.
not = now?
Maybe it's still ok. We'll have to test and see. If it's not, maybe move to MoF.
MoF ? what it's this ? and maybe it's ok but idk for now, 0 crit on SS now as not good
Master of Flame
ah yeah not bad idea but it's not best you also know
Without StormSpell there is no real reason to play it. Storm Pillar? Maelstrom of Chaos? Maybe Storm Fury in pvp if you are tanky enough.
MoF Critical Conflagration just looks better and better.
LoL, yes it's normal it's cw :P don't touch cw !!!
That's right but nothing cw has test MoF just need try ^^
Cw had rly too much burst dmg and in the same time too much tanky, so nothing to say about this nerf, 100% agree.
The hope all we have is to nerf piercing dmg of tr now, coz it s rly embarassing, they just press 1 button and kill evrything,and this is something that in mmo/rpg games should never exist,so let s hope DEVS finally understand that.
If they will do it, and fix trascendent enchant bug, after 1 years, finally, we had more or less all classes balanced!!!!
So this time 10 stars for this patch.
This is a *massive* change to the build, and to all the time, effort and cost that has been put into switching to the Lostmauth/crit build virtually mandated by the changes of mod 6.
Why do it?
For PvP? To make those who like playing Mof/Controller happier and more justified/wanted? To make other classes happy? Anyone who knows what's going on knows that TRs and SWs are readily out-DPSing equivalent geared (and less geared) CWs, and that GWFs are way in excess of the CW, even with *significantly* less gear.
Cryptic sent a clear message that CWs do have a damage tree previous 2 mods (saved a massive PR issue when all else got nerfed, by saving it with SS). Now, SS is getting nerfed in a manner that looks set to kill off the SpellStorm damage tree. So, we're back to that. It's even worse this time, since much has been done to reduce Control effectiveness, and by the way, notice how many significant Control capability is now available to other classes?
To put this massive change to CWs into context, many put huge effort into making epic gear from mod 5, then we trashed that to move to Lostmauth for mod 6, and now another massive wasting of our efforts even before module 7?
The backdrop to that being how extremely difficult it is to make AD now, and how difficult it is to get the necessary RP (IWD RP nerfed this patch).
Can somebody take on honest stab at describing how this can be fair to the player that has taken his CW through these changes? This at a time when I thought PR would be the company focus (massively troubled mod 6 release), rather than taking a sledge hammer to a significant part of the playing community.
I really don't have the energy to do it all again anywhere near this soon, and I'm pretty sure there's a massive CW community that will feel the same way.
Why? How is it fair?
If one CW could control for a long time, then 2-3 CW could do permanent or almost permanent control.
Icy Terrain is an exception.
Trapper HR roots is an exception.
Any other exceptions?
Edit: imprisonment and Geas
Mmmhhhh...GWF is one of the best classes. Espacially since mod 6. I guess you do something wrong. A good gwf got no problems at all to level/quest or kill mobs.