People need to get over it. Sure items may no longer be BIS but who really expected them to be. People complain left and right that the original armors released were still the best in slot armors for some classes. People need to make up their mind, do they want new better items, or more items released that are not as good as what they have? Games that do not release new content and new items to upgrade their characters die. Stuff cannot be BIS forever or really even a full year. No one wants a dead game where everyone has BIS everything.
What I don't get is where the gear that you have to actively work on improving fits into all this.
Like I said, I can totally understand the idea of new gear that drops or involves a one-shot crafting task and therefore arrives totally ready to equip and be awesome getting replaced about as frequently as new content comes out. Maybe some being side-grades with different stats that will work better for some builds than others.
Neverwinter didn't do that though. They introduced items where the gear arrives at rank 1 and you improve it by spending many, many, MANY hours attending to it, both obtaining the fodder (can shortcut by buying it) and refining it (can only shortcut by using items that give a lot of points... which are pretty much only reliably available by buying them).
A lot of people aren't anywhere close to having legendary quality artifact gear, in spite of putting a lot of time and effort into their existing pieces, and it is a slap in the face to tell them all those hours and all that repetitive strain was basically for nothing.
Or if you didn't actually make it to legendary, then you're not allowed to fret about your wasted time and effort because starting over isn't as bad for you, except of course that you're probably never going to catch up at all.
I am ok with the idea that there's new gear that you can loot or craft, especially for people who really don't want to refine. I'm not so ok with new refinable gear that is miles better than the old stuff.
I don't think a dev has ever sat down with a bunch of blue gear and peridots and actually gone through the process of manual refinement, and they absolutely no-way-no-how tested how long it would take to farm your own RP.
What I don't get is where the gear that you have to actively work on improving fits into all this.
Like I said, I can totally understand the idea of new gear that drops or involves a one-shot crafting task and therefore arrives totally ready to equip and be awesome getting replaced about as frequently as new content comes out. Maybe some being side-grades with different stats that will work better for some builds than others.
Neverwinter didn't do that though. They introduced items where the gear arrives at rank 1 and you improve it by spending many, many, MANY hours attending to it, both obtaining the fodder (can shortcut by buying it) and refining it (can only shortcut by using items that give a lot of points... which are pretty much only reliably available by buying them).
A lot of people aren't anywhere close to having legendary quality artifact gear, in spite of putting a lot of time and effort into their existing pieces, and it is a slap in the face to tell them all those hours and all that repetitive strain was basically for nothing.
Or if you didn't actually make it to legendary, then you're not allowed to fret about your wasted time and effort because starting over isn't as bad for you, except of course that you're probably never going to catch up at all.
I am ok with the idea that there's new gear that you can loot or craft, especially for people who really don't want to refine. I'm not so ok with new refinable gear that is miles better than the old stuff.
I don't think a dev has ever sat down with a bunch of blue gear and peridots and actually gone through the process of manual refinement, and they absolutely no-way-no-how tested how long it would take to farm your own RP.
Yep. First of all, the refinement process is cumbersome. Second, players do not like the devs introducing massive powercreep that drop as a green version from dungeons and you have to spend millions of ad through the AH upgrading it. What happened to the days where BIS gear dropped in dungeons gated through challenging content?
A level 60 legendary offhand is worth 1,858,772 refinement points for the level 70 offhand.
This is enough to get the new offhand to level 48 (purple quality).
Probably worth waiting for double refinement weekend before ever considering the new equipment.
That being said, at lvl 48, it is comperable to the 60 at legendary with 2 enchantments in it.
What I don't get is where the gear that you have to actively work on improving fits into all this.
Like I said, I can totally understand the idea of new gear that drops or involves a one-shot crafting task and therefore arrives totally ready to equip and be awesome getting replaced about as frequently as new content comes out. Maybe some being side-grades with different stats that will work better for some builds than others.
Neverwinter didn't do that though. They introduced items where the gear arrives at rank 1 and you improve it by spending many, many, MANY hours attending to it, both obtaining the fodder (can shortcut by buying it) and refining it (can only shortcut by using items that give a lot of points... which are pretty much only reliably available by buying them).
A lot of people aren't anywhere close to having legendary quality artifact gear, in spite of putting a lot of time and effort into their existing pieces, and it is a slap in the face to tell them all those hours and all that repetitive strain was basically for nothing.
Or if you didn't actually make it to legendary, then you're not allowed to fret about your wasted time and effort because starting over isn't as bad for you, except of course that you're probably never going to catch up at all.
I am ok with the idea that there's new gear that you can loot or craft, especially for people who really don't want to refine. I'm not so ok with new refinable gear that is miles better than the old stuff.
I don't think a dev has ever sat down with a bunch of blue gear and peridots and actually gone through the process of manual refinement, and they absolutely no-way-no-how tested how long it would take to farm your own RP.
A level 60 legendary offhand is worth 1,858,772 refinement points for the level 70 offhand.
This is enough to get the new offhand to level 48 (purple quality).
Probably worth waiting for double refinement weekend before ever considering the new equipment.
That being said, at lvl 48, it is comperable to the 60 at legendary with 2 enchantments in it.
Thanks for that info. While, again, it is difficult to draw an objective conclusion until scaling is finalized, it is nice to see what such a product would look like should players choose to upgrade.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Thanks for that info. While, again, it is difficult to draw an objective conclusion until scaling is finalized, it is nice to see what such a product would look like should players choose to upgrade.
To reiterate what is known
We need the following amounts of RP on top of this stuff.
Enchants, Rank 10->11:600k per, 5 Greater Marks of Potency needed
Enchants, Rank 11->12:1 million per, 5 Greater Marks of Potency needed
Enchants, Perfect->Pure:600k per, 5 Greater Marks of potency needed
Enchants, Pure->Transcendent: 1 million per, 5 Greater Marks of Potency needed
Artifacts, Legendary->Mystical:6.6 million per, 5 Greater Marks of Potency needed
Artifacts, Green->Mystical: 10.4 million per for 4th artifact slot. 11 Greater marks of Potency needed.
Each enchantment from rank 10 to 12 will need 1.6 million in RP, and 1 million in AD to achieve. This is for each and every single enchant, meaning each Radiant in just 1 slot will have this requirement.
And on top of this monumental RP requirement, if we have legendary mainhands/offhands, we'll need an additional:
Artifact Offhand: 2.87 Million RP needed
Artifact Mainhand: 2.87 Million RP needed
Artifact Cloak (Projected): 2.87 Million RP needed
Artifact Belt (Projected): 2.87 Million RP needed.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2015
"Need" is relative, and I think pretty much everyone that isn't hardcore into PvP is looking at the requirements (staggering! flabbergasting!) compared to how little return you get for them and thinking that just slotting those ranks 5s is looking pretty danged good.
But I personally haven't even managed to scrape together enough GMoPs to make one of my full artifacts legendary yet (I have numerous that are ready to go) because there are always other things to spend on, and more ways of spreading the AD around than shovelling half a million into a single upgrade on one character. I've got several perfect weapon enchants and most of the resources to make more, but GMoPs don't grow on trees, much as I need an orchard of them all for me.
kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
edited February 2015
Since it looks like we'll be getting a new MH and OH for linu's (at least for the off-hand), and I don't see any reaction from the Cryptic, I'm expect as a long term pattern that any RP's that I invest in any artifact weapon/belt/cloak/off-hand is water down a rat-hole (the pattern of obsoleting RP based gears is now in play). So unlocks, augmentation cubes, stat boosts on unlocks are all going to be wasted over the medium term (1-2 modules). So looking forward to module 7, given this pattern, which gets obsoleted/superseded next? From my perspective it's time to not put RP into these items (since I don't pvp anymore).
I really hope I'm misreading the situation and there is a reasonable upgrade path.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2015
The cubes of augmentation are another galling factor in this whole thing. It potentially cost a ton of AD to get your off-hand shipshape, and you might as well have flushed it down the toilet. And I say that without having bought a single cube of augmentation because I didn't have the funds to throw around on enforced gambling. I've been living with whatever the game gave me on purchase.
Incidentally, the cost of the Golden Dragon off-hands is reduced to 10 Linu on the current preview build. I'm CHOKED about that. I've been busting my *** trying to get one off-hand for a character every week, and have been buying them as I could afford them to start refining with gear drops. Every bit of that feels like wasted effort and wasted Linu now, even though the ones I have aren't more than level 5-7 in most cases.
I think I'm pretty much in a holding pattern until they reveal the main hands... which honestly, the way they've been holding off on showing us the gear or confirming there would be any, it really feels like they've been hiding it so everyone would continue to chase their current items like I've been doing.
Thanks for that info. While, again, it is difficult to draw an objective conclusion until scaling is finalized, it is nice to see what such a product would look like should players choose to upgrade.
The way I see it, your basically exchanging a nearly similar product but the lvl 70 one has much more future upgrade. I dont mind this system as long as they do a double RP event 1-2 weeks after module launch. Just enough time to get to 70 and try and earn the lvl 70 versions which we can then roll our already orange items into the new ones.
Id love to see the GWF version. Are the artifact "bonuses" much better or different than the current ones? Such as the boost to features?
And on top of this monumental RP requirement, if we have legendary mainhands/offhands, we'll need an additional:
Artifact Offhand: 2.87 Million RP needed
Artifact Mainhand: 2.87 Million RP needed
Artifact Cloak (Projected): 2.87 Million RP needed
Artifact Belt (Projected): 2.87 Million RP needed.
This would be drastically reduced through a double RP event. If you can roll your existing ones into a new one you will only need ~1.1M per piece. Which isnt TOO terrible given we can now do RP through professions which will make them cheaper on the AH as well.
In all honesty its the artifacts that are the most daunting in this whole thing... however rank 5s will drop so you know the bots will have a field day with those rank 5s, maybe make them affordable to the average consumer though which is a good thing.
All in all itll be a VERY expensive module. I know ive given up trying to be BIS and might only upgrade weapon/armor to max along with 1-2 artifacts and a handful of enchants to 12.
Seems like taking half your enchants to 12 and half at 10 might be better than all at 11 given the RoR you get from going to rank 12?
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2015
Yeah, so they're having a double RP event *this* weekend instead.
Yeah, so they're having a double RP event *this* weekend instead.
Dunno whether to laugh or cry.
No chance I'm wasting any RP on my artifact gear but I am going to level up a 4th artifact ready for when I hit 70 so I guess it isn't completely pointless .
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
Yeah, I have some enchants I guess I can work on getting closer to R10, and some Bonding Runestones.
If Cryptic was this nice player-friendly company Id say they are doing this just to make sure the illegitimate RP stones are gone for a clean mod 6 launch. But since Cryptic are money grabbin' scammers ( yea yea , rules, dev bashing bla bla, mod notice whatever ) they are just doing this in hope of fooling as many ppl as possible to refine gear only to introduce the new and improved gear 2 weeks after that. Fu ck this
the only thing is would refine if a belt to replace the con one and i would still have many doubts about it.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
So I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but...
The Artifact Weapons have been adjusted at level 60 to be more powerful, so they're in line with the stat changes coming in Module 6. If you look at your Artifact Weapon on Live vs Preview, you'll see that the one on Preview has more stats.
However, the off-hands HAVE NOT been adjusted yet. The stats on test are identical to the stats on preview. It's very possible that what you're seeing on the vendor is the "upgraded" status of Artifact off-hands, and likely what you'll see the existing ones changed to before Module 6 launches.
So I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but...
The Artifact Weapons have been adjusted at level 60 to be more powerful, so they're in line with the stat changes coming in Module 6. If you look at your Artifact Weapon on Live vs Preview, you'll see that the one on Preview has more stats.
However, the off-hands HAVE NOT been adjusted yet. The stats on test are identical to the stats on preview. It's very possible that what you're seeing on the vendor is the "upgraded" status of Artifact off-hands, and likely what you'll see the existing ones changed to before Module 6 launches.
This a good point.
We do need clarifcation from devs really. First 2RP week before mod 6. If they do what you say, then this is ok. But If they don't and have new gear in 2.5 weeks after 2RP week - it is gonna be a huge fail for all players.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited February 2015
Unless the DEVs give 100% assurance that the level 60 weapons will scale up in every way and be 100% on par with the new ones there's no way in hell I'm wasting what RP I have.
The present artifact weapons can be leveled more, from what I understand, but the new ones are called "elemental" and the present "golden" ones are still there, so I think they're two different pairs.
Comments
What I don't get is where the gear that you have to actively work on improving fits into all this.
Like I said, I can totally understand the idea of new gear that drops or involves a one-shot crafting task and therefore arrives totally ready to equip and be awesome getting replaced about as frequently as new content comes out. Maybe some being side-grades with different stats that will work better for some builds than others.
Neverwinter didn't do that though. They introduced items where the gear arrives at rank 1 and you improve it by spending many, many, MANY hours attending to it, both obtaining the fodder (can shortcut by buying it) and refining it (can only shortcut by using items that give a lot of points... which are pretty much only reliably available by buying them).
A lot of people aren't anywhere close to having legendary quality artifact gear, in spite of putting a lot of time and effort into their existing pieces, and it is a slap in the face to tell them all those hours and all that repetitive strain was basically for nothing.
Or if you didn't actually make it to legendary, then you're not allowed to fret about your wasted time and effort because starting over isn't as bad for you, except of course that you're probably never going to catch up at all.
I am ok with the idea that there's new gear that you can loot or craft, especially for people who really don't want to refine. I'm not so ok with new refinable gear that is miles better than the old stuff.
I don't think a dev has ever sat down with a bunch of blue gear and peridots and actually gone through the process of manual refinement, and they absolutely no-way-no-how tested how long it would take to farm your own RP.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Yep. First of all, the refinement process is cumbersome. Second, players do not like the devs introducing massive powercreep that drop as a green version from dungeons and you have to spend millions of ad through the AH upgrading it. What happened to the days where BIS gear dropped in dungeons gated through challenging content?
This is enough to get the new offhand to level 48 (purple quality).
Probably worth waiting for double refinement weekend before ever considering the new equipment.
That being said, at lvl 48, it is comperable to the 60 at legendary with 2 enchantments in it.
Wonderfully said.
Thanks for that info. While, again, it is difficult to draw an objective conclusion until scaling is finalized, it is nice to see what such a product would look like should players choose to upgrade.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
To reiterate what is known
We need the following amounts of RP on top of this stuff.
Enchants, Rank 10->11:600k per, 5 Greater Marks of Potency needed
Enchants, Rank 11->12:1 million per, 5 Greater Marks of Potency needed
Enchants, Perfect->Pure:600k per, 5 Greater Marks of potency needed
Enchants, Pure->Transcendent: 1 million per, 5 Greater Marks of Potency needed
Artifacts, Legendary->Mystical:6.6 million per, 5 Greater Marks of Potency needed
Artifacts, Green->Mystical: 10.4 million per for 4th artifact slot. 11 Greater marks of Potency needed.
Each enchantment from rank 10 to 12 will need 1.6 million in RP, and 1 million in AD to achieve. This is for each and every single enchant, meaning each Radiant in just 1 slot will have this requirement.
And on top of this monumental RP requirement, if we have legendary mainhands/offhands, we'll need an additional:
Artifact Offhand: 2.87 Million RP needed
Artifact Mainhand: 2.87 Million RP needed
Artifact Cloak (Projected): 2.87 Million RP needed
Artifact Belt (Projected): 2.87 Million RP needed.
But I personally haven't even managed to scrape together enough GMoPs to make one of my full artifacts legendary yet (I have numerous that are ready to go) because there are always other things to spend on, and more ways of spreading the AD around than shovelling half a million into a single upgrade on one character. I've got several perfect weapon enchants and most of the resources to make more, but GMoPs don't grow on trees, much as I need an orchard of them all for me.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I really hope I'm misreading the situation and there is a reasonable upgrade path.
Incidentally, the cost of the Golden Dragon off-hands is reduced to 10 Linu on the current preview build. I'm CHOKED about that. I've been busting my *** trying to get one off-hand for a character every week, and have been buying them as I could afford them to start refining with gear drops. Every bit of that feels like wasted effort and wasted Linu now, even though the ones I have aren't more than level 5-7 in most cases.
I think I'm pretty much in a holding pattern until they reveal the main hands... which honestly, the way they've been holding off on showing us the gear or confirming there would be any, it really feels like they've been hiding it so everyone would continue to chase their current items like I've been doing.
I am so tired.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The way I see it, your basically exchanging a nearly similar product but the lvl 70 one has much more future upgrade. I dont mind this system as long as they do a double RP event 1-2 weeks after module launch. Just enough time to get to 70 and try and earn the lvl 70 versions which we can then roll our already orange items into the new ones.
Id love to see the GWF version. Are the artifact "bonuses" much better or different than the current ones? Such as the boost to features?
Blame all the CWs and GFs.
I play Tiamat on lowest settings and never have issues. I play normally highest settings and in PE avg 30-40 FPS maxed out.
This would be drastically reduced through a double RP event. If you can roll your existing ones into a new one you will only need ~1.1M per piece. Which isnt TOO terrible given we can now do RP through professions which will make them cheaper on the AH as well.
In all honesty its the artifacts that are the most daunting in this whole thing... however rank 5s will drop so you know the bots will have a field day with those rank 5s, maybe make them affordable to the average consumer though which is a good thing.
All in all itll be a VERY expensive module. I know ive given up trying to be BIS and might only upgrade weapon/armor to max along with 1-2 artifacts and a handful of enchants to 12.
Seems like taking half your enchants to 12 and half at 10 might be better than all at 11 given the RoR you get from going to rank 12?
Dunno whether to laugh or cry.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Whaaaaaat?
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
No chance I'm wasting any RP on my artifact gear but I am going to level up a 4th artifact ready for when I hit 70 so I guess it isn't completely pointless .
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
The Artifact Weapons have been adjusted at level 60 to be more powerful, so they're in line with the stat changes coming in Module 6. If you look at your Artifact Weapon on Live vs Preview, you'll see that the one on Preview has more stats.
However, the off-hands HAVE NOT been adjusted yet. The stats on test are identical to the stats on preview. It's very possible that what you're seeing on the vendor is the "upgraded" status of Artifact off-hands, and likely what you'll see the existing ones changed to before Module 6 launches.
This a good point.
We do need clarifcation from devs really. First 2RP week before mod 6. If they do what you say, then this is ok. But If they don't and have new gear in 2.5 weeks after 2RP week - it is gonna be a huge fail for all players.
I was just on looking at them and the new off-hands are 15 linu just like the present ones.