Actually the drops from the new Enchanted Coffer look good. I never bothered opening Leadership chests, but some R5s, Peridots are worth it imho.
We'll see how it all adds up. I think we absolutely have to get away from the fact that farming with Dragon Hoard Enchants is the only viable way to progress in the RP war and adding minor stuff to the profession is a step in the right direction.
And yes, should be BtA, please don't make them BoP like the bags.
they should give RPs as reward for hard dungeons or something like that.
it´s so idiotic that the game with one of the best action based fighting is degraded to a monoton and boring game experience through grinding and professions...
they should give RPs as reward for hard dungeons or something like that.
it´s so idiotic that the game with one of the best action based fighting is degraded to a monoton and boring game experience through grinding and professions...
I would love to hear their way of thinking here as well.
Leadership can be botted, so adding RPs to the profession is not the natural way of rewarding the legit player. We haven't seen the new dungeons yet, but at this point it's mandatory that every run nets you a substantial amount of RP from the mobs, boss or DD chest outside the enchantments they already drop. Otherwise I'd consider it a bust. The loot tables for the older dungeons should be upgraded as well.
Another minor yet very effective tweak would be letting the Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing enchants proc for every kill you contributed to and not only every killing blow. That alone would make running dungeons as effective as boring RP grind in 60 areas. That said, the enchants have to scale to the mob-level beyond level 60 to make this effective, which they currently don't.
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checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited February 2015
I have a mixed reaction to the proposed changes to leadership.
Lvls 21-25 look very interesting indeed, as shown in the above thread responses. AD + rp + a little gold (worthless, but oh well). The queue times are long, but the AD from the level 25 would only require 2 white levels to reduce it to less than 24 hours. The AD (2000) would be less than if someone could squeeze in 4x Fight Spellplague, but some of us have to sleep. So, if you did 2x Fight Spellplague + 1xCollect Taxes in a 24-hour period (which is what I do for some slots), the total AD would be 1600. Thus, I would get 400 more AD in the same amount of time, and I would not need green, blue, or epic to get it. So, lvl 25 = 3x2000 AD = 6k.
Lvl 20 is the one that concerns me. They increased the time to 16 hours for the same amount of AD and leadership reward. This is concerning because it is now easier to get AD and get more leadership exp from 4x Collect Taxes (3200 AD, 320 exp in 32 hours of queueing) than from 2x Destroy Enemy (3200 AD, 240 exp in 32 hours of queueing. Basically a level 20 task is now worth less than a level 11 one. The chest and the copper do not make up for leadership experience lost. Additionally, it would be easier to stagger the 4x Collect Taxes at 8 hours each than 2x Destroy Enemy at 16 hours each. Also, as already pointed out, to reduce the 16 hours to about 12 will require purchases of rare or epic Leadership resources.
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
A district map costs you about 300-ish AD. So subtract 1200 from that, and you get 2000 "earned" AD from 4x Collect Taxes.
DEC is free.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
Just saw this rare task, too. You need one wand of detect aberrant and one wand of detect demons as resources.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited February 2015
i think its not meaningfull that 20 lessers from 100 bags unless you have army of leadership alts, if you consider amounts for increased levels. next please ...
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
i think its not meaningfull that 20 lessers from 100 bags unless you have army of leadership alts, if you consider amounts for increased levels. next please ...
It's more than you can currently get with Leadership...that's what we're comparing it to.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited February 2015
more? what more? educate ))
peridots or minor resonance are or will be almost worthless for refining gear over 50 or 70
A district map costs you about 300-ish AD. So subtract 1200 from that, and you get 2000 "earned" AD from 4x Collect Taxes.
DEC is free.
Not exactly. Only if you buy the maps....
Basically, the 16 hours would give you 1 queue per day for the 1600. And then you would have to fill in with a 6 or 8 hour, without purchasing higher level assets. Since the district map comes from Fight Spellplague, you can probably only get 3 Collect Taxes per day anyway without buying maps. But the loss of AD in buying maps would compensate for the increase in leadership exp and the ability to stagger queues better with lower level assests.
OPTIONS for 9 slots of leadership for AD (not including rare tasks or AD from Invoking):
OPTION 1
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--twice per day, 1 epic or 2 blue assets each, 9600 AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, white asset each, 2400AD.
3x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, white asset, 2400AD (no maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of visits to Professions each day = 3***
Total AD per day = 20400.
Expenditures to get: Epic assets (1.5Mil ADish) or Blue Assets (1.8Mil ADish) per toon.
OPTION 2:
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--once per day, 1 white asset each, 4800 AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, white asset each, 2400AD.
6x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, white asset, 4800AD (3 maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of visits to Professions each day = 4***
Total AD per day - 18,000 gross (17,100 net)
Expenditures to get: 900 AD per day.
OPTION 3:
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--once per day, 1 white asset each, 4800 AD
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, 1 white asset each, 2400AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--1x per day, 1 white asset each, 1200AD (not at same time as Spellplague in previous line)
3x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, 1 white asset each, 2400AD (no maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of Visits to Professions each day = 4***
Total AD per day: 16,800 (this is the affect of the change at lvl 20)
Expenditures to get: none.
Comparing OPTION 1 to OPTION 3. It would take 416 days and 16 hours to break even on the asset purchases. Then, OPTION 1 would begin providing more AD than OPTION 3.
Comparing OPTION 2 to OPTION 3. Option 2 is superior to Option 3 as long as the price of District Maps does not go above 400 AD/map and you can self-supply 3 maps per day from the Fight Spellplague barrel rewards.
Comparing OPTION 1 to OPTION 2. It would take 454 days and 12 hours to break even on the asset purchases. Then, OPTION 1 would begin providing more AD than Option 2.
FINAL COMPARISON:
1. If one were to add the planned lvl 25 tasks to the current level 20 task (12 hour task time), one would make 20,400 AD per day, but without the need for epic or rare asset purchases.
2. If one were to compare current 9 slot AD (similar to an Option 3 at level 20 leadership) to new 9 slot AD (Option 3 at level 25 leadership), the amount of AD earned per day is exactly the same.
CONCLUSION: If you want to continue making AD at the current rate and do not plan on purchasing assets, you must level leadership to 25.
So the sky is not falling people: if you only use white assets you will get back to Mod 5 levels of AD production -- or better yet, use some of the new tasks to create the RP that is the main use for AD right now anyways.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
You can always sell them, though, instead of using them for Collect Taxes. They aren't "free" from the barrels, since using one for Collect Taxes "costs" you the 300 AD you would've gotten from selling them. So with that, it's actually better to do "Fight Spellplagued" simply because you can sell those assets in the bag and get actual Astral Diamonds, instead of RAD.
But even then, as it stands now I don't think you'll even consider doing "Collect Taxes" with the new Refinement bags that drop.
Overall, despite what people are desperately trying to spin, it looks like Leadership actually got buffed. Sure, you have to level it up to get the new benefits, but that's a given.
I for one would not mind, if cryptic decided to put an end to those leadership exploit armies (i.e. 1 leadership toon per account, would instantly solve the AD botting issue)
If by solve, you mean that people could go from directly or indirectly paying for character slots to creating multiple free accounts, then yes. Also some people have a limit on what they want to spend on pixel stuff they don't actually own. I for one have spent a fair amount and built up an army so that I didn't need to spend thousands which is ridiculous. You're also miles off from what is "driving away valuable, paying customers".
It's more than you can currently get with Leadership...that's what we're comparing it to.
It should be more considering the horrible and awful powercreep and how useless PVE farming is
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
Anyway, lots of good information posted. My feels are that Leadership is different now, but still extremely useful.
Cryptic could've taken the opportunity to nerf it into the ground, but they didn't. I think it's because their metrics show that it's overwhelmingly being used by regular players to supplement their income, and not abused by bots.
So the title of this thread is wrong.
Checkmatein3 has shown how the AD gains can be similar to the current level of Leadership, albeit level 25 is needed. And I'm pretty confident that the added Refinement stone bags are a boon for the profession.
Once you get to level 25, you should be making about the same amount of AD. There's a new 2000 AD task that takes 24 hours.
Plus there's new tasks that reward resonance and other refinement stones, so that's a plus.
I think the adjustments were pretty fair, all in all. I certain like the idea of adding in the tasks that reward RP stuff. That's a substantial boost to the profitability of Leadership.
EDIT: With the changes, Leadership might just become a "check once a day" profession for me. Which I'm fine with, honestly.
Thanks for the enlightening info. That doesn't sound all that bad indeed.
All the doom and gloom was starting to make me think it would be much worse.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Comments
We'll see how it all adds up. I think we absolutely have to get away from the fact that farming with Dragon Hoard Enchants is the only viable way to progress in the RP war and adding minor stuff to the profession is a step in the right direction.
And yes, should be BtA, please don't make them BoP like the bags.
it´s so idiotic that the game with one of the best action based fighting is degraded to a monoton and boring game experience through grinding and professions...
Yes I know, but I took the task with the Enchanted Coffers because I think many people will do this task because of the peridots and the 4h duration.
I opened 350 Resonant Bags
251x Minor Resonance Stone
98x Lesser Resonance Stone
1x Resonance Stone
I would love to hear their way of thinking here as well.
Leadership can be botted, so adding RPs to the profession is not the natural way of rewarding the legit player. We haven't seen the new dungeons yet, but at this point it's mandatory that every run nets you a substantial amount of RP from the mobs, boss or DD chest outside the enchantments they already drop. Otherwise I'd consider it a bust. The loot tables for the older dungeons should be upgraded as well.
Another minor yet very effective tweak would be letting the Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing enchants proc for every kill you contributed to and not only every killing blow. That alone would make running dungeons as effective as boring RP grind in 60 areas. That said, the enchants have to scale to the mob-level beyond level 60 to make this effective, which they currently don't.
Lvls 21-25 look very interesting indeed, as shown in the above thread responses. AD + rp + a little gold (worthless, but oh well). The queue times are long, but the AD from the level 25 would only require 2 white levels to reduce it to less than 24 hours. The AD (2000) would be less than if someone could squeeze in 4x Fight Spellplague, but some of us have to sleep. So, if you did 2x Fight Spellplague + 1xCollect Taxes in a 24-hour period (which is what I do for some slots), the total AD would be 1600. Thus, I would get 400 more AD in the same amount of time, and I would not need green, blue, or epic to get it. So, lvl 25 = 3x2000 AD = 6k.
Lvl 20 is the one that concerns me. They increased the time to 16 hours for the same amount of AD and leadership reward. This is concerning because it is now easier to get AD and get more leadership exp from 4x Collect Taxes (3200 AD, 320 exp in 32 hours of queueing) than from 2x Destroy Enemy (3200 AD, 240 exp in 32 hours of queueing. Basically a level 20 task is now worth less than a level 11 one. The chest and the copper do not make up for leadership experience lost. Additionally, it would be easier to stagger the 4x Collect Taxes at 8 hours each than 2x Destroy Enemy at 16 hours each. Also, as already pointed out, to reduce the 16 hours to about 12 will require purchases of rare or epic Leadership resources.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
DEC is free.
Which is great. At the current AH prices, that's over 1.3 million AD, or over 3800 AD/bag.
It's more than you can currently get with Leadership...that's what we're comparing it to.
peridots or minor resonance are or will be almost worthless for refining gear over 50 or 70
Not exactly. Only if you buy the maps....
Basically, the 16 hours would give you 1 queue per day for the 1600. And then you would have to fill in with a 6 or 8 hour, without purchasing higher level assets. Since the district map comes from Fight Spellplague, you can probably only get 3 Collect Taxes per day anyway without buying maps. But the loss of AD in buying maps would compensate for the increase in leadership exp and the ability to stagger queues better with lower level assests.
OPTIONS for 9 slots of leadership for AD (not including rare tasks or AD from Invoking):
OPTION 1
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--twice per day, 1 epic or 2 blue assets each, 9600 AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, white asset each, 2400AD.
3x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, white asset, 2400AD (no maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of visits to Professions each day = 3***
Total AD per day = 20400.
Expenditures to get: Epic assets (1.5Mil ADish) or Blue Assets (1.8Mil ADish) per toon.
OPTION 2:
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--once per day, 1 white asset each, 4800 AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, white asset each, 2400AD.
6x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, white asset, 4800AD (3 maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of visits to Professions each day = 4***
Total AD per day - 18,000 gross (17,100 net)
Expenditures to get: 900 AD per day.
OPTION 3:
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--once per day, 1 white asset each, 4800 AD
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, 1 white asset each, 2400AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--1x per day, 1 white asset each, 1200AD (not at same time as Spellplague in previous line)
3x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, 1 white asset each, 2400AD (no maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of Visits to Professions each day = 4***
Total AD per day: 16,800 (this is the affect of the change at lvl 20)
Expenditures to get: none.
Comparing OPTION 1 to OPTION 3. It would take 416 days and 16 hours to break even on the asset purchases. Then, OPTION 1 would begin providing more AD than OPTION 3.
Comparing OPTION 2 to OPTION 3. Option 2 is superior to Option 3 as long as the price of District Maps does not go above 400 AD/map and you can self-supply 3 maps per day from the Fight Spellplague barrel rewards.
Comparing OPTION 1 to OPTION 2. It would take 454 days and 12 hours to break even on the asset purchases. Then, OPTION 1 would begin providing more AD than Option 2.
FINAL COMPARISON:
1. If one were to add the planned lvl 25 tasks to the current level 20 task (12 hour task time), one would make 20,400 AD per day, but without the need for epic or rare asset purchases.
2. If one were to compare current 9 slot AD (similar to an Option 3 at level 20 leadership) to new 9 slot AD (Option 3 at level 25 leadership), the amount of AD earned per day is exactly the same.
CONCLUSION: If you want to continue making AD at the current rate and do not plan on purchasing assets, you must level leadership to 25.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
Checkmate, thanks for doing the math.
So the sky is not falling people: if you only use white assets you will get back to Mod 5 levels of AD production -- or better yet, use some of the new tasks to create the RP that is the main use for AD right now anyways.
You can always sell them, though, instead of using them for Collect Taxes. They aren't "free" from the barrels, since using one for Collect Taxes "costs" you the 300 AD you would've gotten from selling them. So with that, it's actually better to do "Fight Spellplagued" simply because you can sell those assets in the bag and get actual Astral Diamonds, instead of RAD.
But even then, as it stands now I don't think you'll even consider doing "Collect Taxes" with the new Refinement bags that drop.
Overall, despite what people are desperately trying to spin, it looks like Leadership actually got buffed. Sure, you have to level it up to get the new benefits, but that's a given.
Better find a comfortable couch. As of right it, it's all unbound.
If by solve, you mean that people could go from directly or indirectly paying for character slots to creating multiple free accounts, then yes. Also some people have a limit on what they want to spend on pixel stuff they don't actually own. I for one have spent a fair amount and built up an army so that I didn't need to spend thousands which is ridiculous. You're also miles off from what is "driving away valuable, paying customers".
Alright, so there's two sides. I am only against 'abusers', not against actual dedicated gamers.
Thanks for the clarification.
I don't think so. Current peridots, white pearls, and marks are not bound.
Also, you can create only a limited amount per day. Much less than with dragon hoard enchants.
Well, I guess we'll see.
http://tinypic.com/r/w1y3ya/8
L25 RARE: Wand of Detect Aberrant, Wand of Detect Demon --> Artifact Paraphenalia, 4000 AD, 250 LE
L24 RARE: Scroll of Mass Protection from Dragons --> Resonant Bag, 1000 AD, 250 LE
L23 RARE No resource needed --> Encanted Coffer, 250 LE
L22 RARE: 3x Bandit Camp Clue --> 1500 AD, 250 LE
L21 RARE: No resources needed --> Thauamturgic Bag, 500 AD, 250 LE
And by the way...
Protect Diamond Shipment = 14 hours
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
It should be more considering the horrible and awful powercreep and how useless PVE farming is
Cryptic could've taken the opportunity to nerf it into the ground, but they didn't. I think it's because their metrics show that it's overwhelmingly being used by regular players to supplement their income, and not abused by bots.
So the title of this thread is wrong.
Checkmatein3 has shown how the AD gains can be similar to the current level of Leadership, albeit level 25 is needed. And I'm pretty confident that the added Refinement stone bags are a boon for the profession.
All in all, I'm pretty happy with the changes.
212 White
86 Green
2 Blue
So about 70%/29%/1%, which still puts the expected value of the bag at over 4k AD.
Thanks for the enlightening info. That doesn't sound all that bad indeed.
All the doom and gloom was starting to make me think it would be much worse.
Welcome to the preview forums. It makes Mos Eisley look like the Romper Room.
[A Barrel of Goods]
[Large Chest of Goods]
Opened 100 of each and not a single Mod6 item/resource.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
nm, it's power stone bag
Are they bound?