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Did PVP finally die?

doriangreighdoriangreigh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 707 Arc User
edited February 2015 in PvP Discussion
A few days ago, maybe even a work or so now, I tried to see what all the flaming about TR was about, so I queued for PVP, which I have not done since the CW first got their PVP buff.

Let me first say, wow I totally understand where all the complaints about TR went, I spent the whole match stunned or tag teamed stunned. It was ridiculous. My CW control powers (freeze mainly) got seriously nerfed why is the stun duration not the same? At MOST it should be 1 second on players just like all the control powers for CW seem to be.

Then i'd say in the last 2 or 3 days i've queued just for dailys trying to get another artifact to use to refine another power artifact with should another double RP weekend show up.

What I discovered was that it would be me a 17k CW or 16k GF queued in with 2 - 4 players that had 7k or LESS GS, some dont' even have 1 artifact from the level 20 quest that gives one, many are in green gear that is not even level 50 ... seriously not even level 5 0 !!!! My opponents 3+ 20k+ GS players with lots of pretty orange bling. Yeah total waste of my time.

Then another funny thing happened, I stopped getting much of anything but 7- 10 k players ... honestly the matches ended up seemingly more balanced with same skilled players on each team... it was actually fun, good node contestation, no one one shotting each other ... some of the best matches I had but at times it literally felt like it was me with a team of bots vs. another live player and his team of bots.

So i'm wondering did all of a sudden all the craziness with TR and GS disparity between players finally make people stop doing pvp? Or maybe did all the supremely geared pvp players have nothing left to buy with glory and hit their glory cap and are now farming grym coins for the future update with drow gear?
Post edited by doriangreigh on
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Comments

  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Same as it ever was.

    when GWFs were crazy insane you saw 2 in a match

    when CWs were crazy insane you saw 2 in a match

    when DCs and TRs were crazy insane...you get how it works.

    GS Balance has always been weird as in sometimes you end up on a lowbie GS team vs a high GS team...it has never been balanced. About 10% of the time (1 in 10 matches) you will have a fun close one. That has always been the case.

    The only thing that has changed is the amount the queue pops, it is way less now, so if that is any indication, yes it is dying.
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This is similar to what I have observed as well, but from the 10k GS point of view.

    With the exception of TRs, PVP seems reasonably balanced at about the 10k-14k GS range. Matches are more likely to be competitive and fun.

    I honestly believe that the devs never thought players would have such monstrous GS's and power as the high GS crowd have and so they never contemplated even thinking about how to balance PVP at that high of level.
  • nickitysplitnickitysplit Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Imo there is nothing wrong with TR's atm, the only 2 problems i see, are those that are abusing the double SoD procs, and those that whine about it.

    Not trying to be rude or anything, i agree PvP is completely unbalanced, always has been, but my main has always been a TR, and i get wrecked in PvP, to the point that i have to actually afk at the campfire for a minute to stop myself raging lol.

    Anyway, my point is, even in lowbie PvP, there will always be those "omg LB is sooo freakin OP" players who are just there to oneshot troll you, just gotta learn how to deal with em :D
    - Carpe diem -
  • doriangreighdoriangreigh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 707 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Same as it ever was.

    when GWFs were crazy insane you saw 2 in a match

    when CWs were crazy insane you saw 2 in a match

    when DCs and TRs were crazy insane...you get how it works.

    GS Balance has always been weird as in sometimes you end up on a lowbie GS team vs a high GS team...it has never been balanced. About 10% of the time (1 in 10 matches) you will have a fun close one. That has always been the case.

    The only thing that has changed is the amount the queue pops, it is way less now, so if that is any indication, yes it is dying.

    One of my points I made in another thread was why can't the queue system auto balance players ... for instance if a queue pops and there are 3 high GS player on one team and then 1 on the other team then why not pull on player from the other team and reassign them? I know premades would pitch a fit but seriously the best matches I had in the past couple of days was when there were the same number of high GS players on each side even if it was 1 16k+ on each side full of 10k or less ... its when all the high GS players are on the same team it just sucks.

    You would think some premades might even relish this thought as it would be or should be easy to implement and premades will still play together but might find themselves on the opposing team.
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    One of my points I made in another thread was why can't the queue system auto balance players ... for instance if a queue pops and there are 3 high GS player on one team and then 1 on the other team then why not pull on player from the other team and reassign them? I know premades would pitch a fit but seriously the best matches I had in the past couple of days was when there were the same number of high GS players on each side even if it was 1 16k+ on each side full of 10k or less ... its when all the high GS players are on the same team it just sucks.

    Because the Devs don't have the resources or desire to balance the sides based on GS. If it hasn't been done 1.5yrs into the game (and countless threads on the subject) it is not going to be done.

    Many of us would like to see more balanced fun matches.
    You would think some premades might even relish this thought as it would be or should be easy to implement and premades will still play together but might find themselves on the opposing team.

    You would think, and I do think the majority of premade PvPers like a challenge, but there are lots who don't, they want the easy button. These people are the first to quit a match when they might accrue some deaths or a loss. The PvP guilds are here to feed egos, not to make a fair environment.
  • loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Imo there is nothing wrong with TR's atm

    Uhm no. That's you against the world right there.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    Imo there is nothing wrong with TR's atm

    Interesting point of view right here
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Imo there is nothing wrong with TR's atm.... but my main has always been a TR, and i get wrecked in PvP, to the point that i have to actually afk at the campfire for a minute to stop myself raging lol.

    this explains it all :D
    Paladin Master Race
  • matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Don't get angry, ironic thing coming up!

    I had all these problems too, decided there is only 1 way to ease the pain, i slowly made all classes and take the actual favorites to the match.

    This is ridiculous i know, but this way i can spare myself a lot of anger and rage.

    I do go with the others to PVP too, but only on double rewards day from the Lord.

    Of course this doesn't solve the balance and matchmaking issues, cause some of my toons are higher, some lower geared and as we all know matchmaking drops us into out of the world brackets.
    The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
    Robert E. Lee

    I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
    Winston Churchill

    The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
    David Icke

  • silence1xsilence1x Member Posts: 1,503 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The only PvP I do any more is GG PvP. Many other targets besides me :)
    I aim to misbehave
  • godlysoul2godlysoul2 Member Posts: 661 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    I tried queuing a couple times recently and it definitely seems there are longer wait times then a few months ago. I think many people are tired of the class imbalances and cost advantage imbalances that keep occurring. Although, I think there are probably many people, like myself, that still like to keep watch on the game (and probably more who like to just play PvE for now) while waiting to see if the PvP aspect of this game will ever reach a more balanced state from both of those aspects, in addition to seeing if a larger community will grow to support it, before coming back to it.
  • hfgtfsdfshfgtfsdfs Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Yes PvP died. The changes needed is taking way to long. PvE is next unless new dungeons is coming very soon.
    ZengiaH@ejziponken
  • stah01stah01 Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Guess that whole lets buff up a class so people spend alot of money is not quite working out like they wanted. GG though. Was a pretty fun game for a year and good for really casual players now. But might as well stick a pin in it.
    GShBCGl.jpg
  • loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    It's the same <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> every module. They release and don't follow up with necessary fixes. See TR and DC. See Tiamat. See Fetch Quest. See PVP kicking. See Gifts of Simril.
    Assuming gcrush is the main source of balancing, he has been busy with the Paladin and the new level cap for quite some time. No wonder we're not getting anything M5-related looked at.
    There is this "PVP surprise" looming and I personally would think it has something to do with the queue system. But that's about it until M6.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    hfgtfsdfs wrote: »
    Yes PvP died. The changes needed is taking way to long. PvE is next unless new dungeons is coming very soon.

    Next?

    Endgame PVE has been dead for months
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Imo there is nothing wrong with TR's atm, the only 2 problems i see, are those that are abusing the double SoD procs, and those that whine about it.

    Not trying to be rude or anything, i agree PvP is completely unbalanced, always has been, but my main has always been a TR, and i get wrecked in PvP, to the point that i have to actually afk at the campfire for a minute to stop myself raging lol.

    Anyway, my point is, even in lowbie PvP, there will always be those "omg LB is sooo freakin OP" players who are just there to oneshot troll you, just gotta learn how to deal with em :D

    That campfire wouldn't happen to be in tiamat, would it? :p
  • robotpolisrobotpolis Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I'm always a pvp heavy player in all games i played. But, i left PVP here; too tired of being one-shot-kill from stealth and perma-daze. It's not even a competition. I don't mind losing in a fair competition, but losing while becoming a moving dummy is just a waste of time.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    robotpolis wrote: »
    I'm always a pvp heavy player in all games i played. But, i left PVP here; too tired of being one-shot-kill from stealth and perma-daze. It's not even a competition. I don't mind losing in a fair competition, but losing while becoming a moving dummy is just a waste of time.

    Yep and I also think gearscore should have a bigger impact on matchmaking and lastly, premades shouldn't really be facing pugs
  • nickitysplitnickitysplit Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    That campfire wouldn't happen to be in tiamat, would it? :p

    Considering im only 46, i very much doubt it lol :D
    - Carpe diem -
  • loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    robotpolis wrote: »
    I'm always a pvp heavy player in all games i played. But, i left PVP here; too tired of being one-shot-kill from stealth and perma-daze. It's not even a competition. I don't mind losing in a fair competition, but losing while becoming a moving dummy is just a waste of time.

    The funny thing is. When they introduced Tenacity they said their goal was to get away from these one-shot rotations and playstyles where the attacked player has no chance fighting back. Two mods later, they still haven't achieved it. Or at least moved away from their goal again.
  • mfgamesysmfgamesys Member Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    starbigamo wrote: »
    Actually the level cap raise will make this.

    I believe that cryptic will not throw all the current late game in the trash. But the characters got too much points for its level. Raising the level will buff the characters HP and nerf most stats to level 70. I believe it will be a BLAST! :)

    You are forgetting that with increased levels at wills, encounters, and dailies also gain more damage.
    Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
  • pzg33pzg33 Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    A few days ago, maybe even a work or so now, I tried to see what all the flaming about TR was about, so I queued for PVP, which I have not done since the CW first got their PVP buff.

    Let me first say, wow I totally understand where all the complaints about TR went, I spent the whole match stunned or tag teamed stunned. It was ridiculous. My CW control powers (freeze mainly) got seriously nerfed why is the stun duration not the same? At MOST it should be 1 second on players just like all the control powers for CW seem to be.

    Then i'd say in the last 2 or 3 days i've queued just for dailys trying to get another artifact to use to refine another power artifact with should another double RP weekend show up.

    What I discovered was that it would be me a 17k CW or 16k GF queued in with 2 - 4 players that had 7k or LESS GS, some dont' even have 1 artifact from the level 20 quest that gives one, many are in green gear that is not even level 50 ... seriously not even level 5 0 !!!! My opponents 3+ 20k+ GS players with lots of pretty orange bling. Yeah total waste of my time.

    Then another funny thing happened, I stopped getting much of anything but 7- 10 k players ... honestly the matches ended up seemingly more balanced with same skilled players on each team... it was actually fun, good node contestation, no one one shotting each other ... some of the best matches I had but at times it literally felt like it was me with a team of bots vs. another live player and his team of bots.

    So i'm wondering did all of a sudden all the craziness with TR and GS disparity between players finally make people stop doing pvp? Or maybe did all the supremely geared pvp players have nothing left to buy with glory and hit their glory cap and are now farming grym coins for the future update with drow gear?

    i gave up. its just not good. very low skill cap, gs plays to much and some really dumb mechs. the pvp gear itself sux in pvp. no real reason to do it, devs way to slow on fixes. its just bad. no way around it. which sucks.
  • koalazebra1koalazebra1 Member Posts: 1,173 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    pzg33 wrote: »
    i gave up. its just not good. very low skill cap.

    this by x100000! and what's even more hilarious is the high end pvp-ers think they got skills.....LULZ. this is a game of BUILDS AND GEARS. pvp here never required the tiniest amount of skills.
  • vasdamasvasdamas Member Posts: 2,461 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    End game's PvP problem is the huge difference in skill caps for all classes. Some classes require very little skill to play and can do ridiculous stuff just standing on a node and spamming a rotation without any hard thinking or build supposedly squishy class tanky like hell without loosing even a bit of DPS. TRs shine on the top of it now, namely, executioners and scoundrels. Most of "competitive" scoundrels I encountered just Daze Strike you from stealth and then spamm cloud of steel till you die and if you don't - "ERMHAGERD! I should stealth and try again or oh wait, I got Sigil of Devoted! I can spamm bloodbath twice and make myself immune to ally negative effects I had :3!". And executioners...meh, even without CoD bugged procs those guys are annoying once they hit 15k mark. For me, as PvP SW (OMG MASOCHISM!) to stop an executioner it takes all concentration and permanent awareness of stealthy Skillful Execution. I mean, for them, all it takes to kill me is enter stealth and then shocking execute me easily because I have not got any dodges and that daily ignores all DR from my shadow slip. While I have to slot Infernal Spheres (which do very little damage without tenebrous and serve as rogue alarm most of the time), overhear start of Shocking Execution cast and then apply all my knowledge of TR's psychology (yeah guys, most of you are really predictable and ain't any special at all) to shadow slip fast to the location of stealthed rogue and use Brood of Hadar daily and prey that rogue is not MI with ITC and I was fast enough to stop SE in time. Not to mention the situations when I got no daily up...that is the time when I am basically a "sacrificial lamb".
  • thehumancodexthehumancodex Member Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    (Post Removed)
  • onecoolscatcatonecoolscatcat Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Eventually Devs'll realize skills/powers need to work differently when flagged for PvP. There's no other way of balancing both.
  • thehumancodexthehumancodex Member Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    (Post Removed)
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