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Pvp: any tactics against mod5 changes (TR,DC)?
commanderdata001
Member Posts: 307 Bounty Hunter
What's your tactics against nowadays TRs?
Steal time? Icy terrain?(they see it)Shield?(they see it)Shield on tab? Oppforce?(you are lucky if you are not cced and lose it) Entangling force? (lol almost never work against them)
Sometimes I feel like in mod1-2-3. TRs are jumping on me after noticing I am CW and one-hitting.
Even if I survive lashing blade its dots(shadow demise?) or flourish kill you after.
What's your tactics against nowadays DCs?
Pretty much the same except more focus and firepower.
Steal time? Icy terrain?(they see it)Shield?(they see it)Shield on tab? Oppforce?(you are lucky if you are not cced and lose it) Entangling force? (lol almost never work against them)
Sometimes I feel like in mod1-2-3. TRs are jumping on me after noticing I am CW and one-hitting.
Even if I survive lashing blade its dots(shadow demise?) or flourish kill you after.
What's your tactics against nowadays DCs?
Pretty much the same except more focus and firepower.
Post edited by commanderdata001 on
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Waiting for Nerf.
PS. You can use some trick like spam storm pillar and turn on your healing bonus, but it is only make your death a bit later.
Get tanky, put shield on tab. I have the fancy 2 slotted rings, but I still prefer the tenacity ring set. See what works best for you. Pile up as much HP as you can. My cw sits at 25% tenacity, 40% DR, 42k HP. I can withstand a shocking or lashing from any rogue in the game with these numbers (at least I have never been "1 shot").
For encounters I use repel, chill strike and icy rays. They all cast real fast and control and/or add chill. For passives I go chilling presence and storm fury. Storm fury I like better than storm spell in a lot of situations, but especially against scoundrel rogues. Storm fury will hit back for you even if you are controlled. Storm spell is great too, just see what works best for you.
Dance around the point like a spaz, randomly dodging and changing your direction. If you catch a glimpse of the rogue try to spam out an encounter. Worst case scenario you will take their opener and then be able to respond. Using storm pillar to try for a lucky chaotic growth proc can be a lifesaver. Getting used to dodging things like lashing and smoke bomb is just a practice thing, but it is very important as well.
Most of the time you will eventually die against the rogue, but honestly I think CW is the best counter to rogues right now.
Jeffrina Jones, GWF
Jeffrodo, CW
Jeffrogue, Rog
Jelfro, GF
Jeffrogolas Do'Urden, HR
Jeffrodo Jaggins, SW
Looak at this. Can you Tell me how long any of classes can dance with 2 CW with 1 millimeter of hp bar? This is just ridiculous and Cryptic know all about this, but they don't do anything.
Funny fact is that if you are wizard you can stay with TR quite a long time becouse TR cant penetration your shield. But if you are a GWF or SW you are all time 1 shoted by daily (SE) which "after 20% nerf" is still hitting for 50k.
PS. I think the most chance among normal class against TR has got HR- becouse of his undodgeable (?) and very long (4-5 sec) stuns and big damage.
I die. Seriously. I don't even try. When I hear the goning-into-stealth "poof", I go AFK-bio and I come back one minute later, get my char at firecamp and go back to any base.
There is no tactics. You die, period.
However you power choices dodging and overall positioning could use work
You will almost never kill a decent Tr with shield on tab
Go DPS.
tldr: If the TR cannot kill you in seconds, then the TR is undergeared and unskilled.
Why? Because I focus on survival, wearing full purified set including orb+offhand, stacking wisdom and using at least one artifact with control resist, oh!, and I have more than 1000 points of tenacity and I wear barkshield, not soulforged.
Anyway I found skilled TR that killed me more than I killed him because they know how to do, but never dominates me.
IMO every single survival ability/stat counts.
Take a look to Kaelac’s guide to damage, tenacity, resistance and debuffs in Neverwinter, it may be outdated but it's a nice point to begin.
I don't mind on control.
I don't main on damage.
I only mind on FUN.
I have reached higher state of FUNNESS!
this is the truth
bis cw pure pvp build can beat top trs
maybe not every time but has a decent chance
even that obsydian dude posted how he beat bis tr with all pots
its actuLY same as mod 4 was just opposite
top tr could kill cw but cw had better chance
same as <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tr was dying in 3 sec to cw now <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> cw die in 3 sec to tr
You can also find a Coalescent in the weekly Wondrous chest.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Are you a 20k CW who was able to kill a 12k TR?
He's actually right... at BiS levels the CW CAN give the TR a run for his money by contesting for a little bit (Before eventually dying due to Daze+CoS spam unskilled BS). Sometimes a miracle happens and you actually clear the TR. But a CW is never really "Dominated" by a TR. It takes them more.. ahem... SECONDS, to kill the CW compared to other classes.
OP, just get the full purified set and stack as much HP as possible while still having a bit of burst
I find this rotation VS TR good enough
Tab = Shield
Encounters: Repel, Icy Terrain, and Chill Strike (Yup, No Icy Rays, I find it kind of a drag to use when trying to contest a TR)
Here's what my character is like in-game.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
4.7k power lol. High end CW run arround with arround 10k power and arround 60% crit chance in PvP atm
And about 20K less HP. They die even faster.
^ This
clearly he doesn't know anything. HP is the main priority right now. Because of all the piercing damage floating around.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
Well to each his own style. Some one is built for 1v1s and someone is built for shining in group play. And i can assure you that HP is not the main priority. If you get focused as a CW you are dead anyway.
I have at 9.5k power, 55% crit chance and 42k HP when i enter domination. To sacrifice half my power and crit to get 8k more HP is out of the question. Also CON Belt for CWs basically does nothing. It ONLY gives HP. Currently im running black ice belt with +2 int and +2 cha. With pots i have 29 int and 29 cha on my charr.
This mod is basically a power creeping mod where offensive stats overrun defensive stats by miles. My ice knifes hit for arround 60k and my storm spell crits for between 15k and 25k. needless to say the extra HP for you is going to do nothing for you party in a high end premade.
But i do agree that your build might be better for solo ques and stuff because you will survive longer vs pugs, and probably your build is better in a 1v1. But in a premade? Not in a lifetime
TL:DR MOD 5: DAMAGE > DEFENCE
To each his own.
I run premades with my guild all the time, and they can confirm that I do as well as most CW's in the high-end despite the "High HP CW" being frowned upon. I have a few videos of premades even against your guild and the "other guild" as an example of how I do.
I don't need to overly stack power. Storm Spell already does its job, My Storm Spell crits 12~K and Ice Knife for around 40-45K which is plenty already. I'd rather be tougher in survivability then get slighty more damage.
I can just choose to lower my HP to 40K and switch belts and rings, but I'm not a sheep, and prefer to do my own style of an HP freak. I don't like following trends and be a clone. But like I said, to each his own.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
While i agree with the other things you say, this sentence i have to disagree on strongly. It should rather be "slightly more survivability and ALOT more damage".
Because with 8-10k more HP you will not survive much longer. But with 5k more power, aka the double of what you have, you will kill ALOT faster. Just my two cents.
About the survive thing, let's be real, the only problem right now is TR and HR to a lesser extent because of undodgeable roots. Once these two are fixed. I'll survive even longer than right now.
Sure, the damage is lower and has quite a gap.. but you have to remember that I'm not alone in a premade, it's a team game. My account offers balance between survavibility (So I don't have to be babysitted when we don't have a DC) and moderate damage. Plus you have awesome team mates who can buff you.
It's probably weird to all the other CW's. But I'm like that, CW is considered weak, I've made it so I can hold my own while providing enough firepower. So the steteotype of a CW being a frail little wizard needing help all the time can be disproven. (This is the section where I'm talking about contesting and 1v1's rather than teamplay, which you were right on.)
But yeah.... with the upcoming powecreep of module 6, I'll have even more Power while maintaining high HP.. That's Cyrptic for ya.
EDIT: I forgot to add, with the upcoming Life Steal changes (Purified BI boosts your Life Steal up to 2.4K, so I'm guessing that's around ~35% "Life Steal chance"), it's a buff to this build. A Huge buff.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
This thread is about fighting rogues and dc's as a cw. Vs a healing dc, I agree, more dps is always going to work better. Vs a dps dc or a rogue, a full dps build will leave you dead before you can even use an encounter.
I play a "tanky" cw as well. I can assure you it is viable. I do not agree with going all in on HP though, I think it is better to spread your defense stats a bit. I am at 3k defense, 1.1k incoming healing, 1.6k lifesteal, 1.6k regen, 25 AC, 1.2k tenacity, 42k and change HP. This gives me 40% DR before tenacity and not figuring in shield.
I know people will say "3k defense, nab! l2p, piercing damage, shocking ignores DR, etc." but I can tell you from experience that once you pass about the 35% dr mark defense becomes very valuable to your effective HP. I would rather have 3k deflect, but there is no reasonable way I am aware of for a cw to get it.
I also dabble with the rogue and I should add that steal time/icy terrain are not as effective as they were in previous mods vs rogue. Stealth loss is based on the amount of damage taken now, not the number of times they are hit. You would have to let steal time go through and hope the last part hits for it to be effective. For the same reason conduit does not work as well as it used to. Rogues can also dodge over icy terrain like it isn't even there. This is why I recommend repel, chill strike, icy rays, shield on tab. If you can land a repel, you can land the rest of your encounters, each of which cast very fast, apply a control effect, and deal good damage.
tldr:
dps cw is obviously good, but defensive cw is totally viable in pvp (maybe even more dangerous in the hands of an experienced player). The old encounters we used to kill rogues with do not work as well in this mod because stealth depletion works off of how much damage the rogue takes instead of the number of times they get hit like in previous mods.
Jeffrina Jones, GWF
Jeffrodo, CW
Jeffrogue, Rog
Jelfro, GF
Jeffrogolas Do'Urden, HR
Jeffrodo Jaggins, SW
Any good 21k plus TR will kill you easily
I saw some CW using your rotations and they are all being killed all the time by 20k plus TR
This is the only part that I really agree with. As for the others, based on all of my experiences and almost every other player in the game, I think it warrants our doubts regarding these claims. You also made two statements that kinda contradict each other. I don't think surviving for a few seconds longer is giving the TR a run for his money. TRs will dominate a class 1v1 doesn't matter if its a CW.
I would like to see you perform against one of the TRs on the front page such as Brollax.
Well looks like he is all decked out but like I said, I'll give him a very very slight benefit of the doubt. Let's see him do against Brollax or Sicarius.
He can win once out of 10 and I'll be impressed.
So if somebody has a new tactic in a ball game they have to beat Michael Jordan to prove its worthy? Or like, if somebody has a new theory in sabermetrics, they have to go win the World Series or its just useless?
(...or when Dersi or Brollax were in their greens, did they have to beat jerkface and keltz0r to prove they were worthy TRs?)
How is comparing general tactics ever going to prove anything or do any CW players any good when you're going to pin it on the person to "go beat the game's #1"? There's a wide spectrum of players in the game, you know.
The Michael Jordans of the PVP TR playerbase have all left the game years ago.
At this point, I'm pretty much just asking him to showcase his theory on a TR that has a brain.