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Cryptic Wants Your Feedback on The Foundry

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  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    eldarth wrote: »
    I disagree with this...I think it is a very slippery slope and descends rapidly into the "haves" and "have nots." Why play anything by a "have not" author since they can't place better rewards and/or content?

    How would you propose they police properly difficult dungeons with rewards?

    Either they can do it themselves which seems not possible with the lack of man power, or they have to build some type of "trust" system, otherwise just anyone would go in, make an easy or exploitable dungeon, throw some epic rewards and farm it until it becomes noticed?

    Its not intended to be a "haves versus have nots" but I dont see any easy solution to allow GOOD rewards without putting some type of quality control mechanism into it.

    Maybe "average run time" can = reward tiers or something...

    If run time is between 1-14 minutes: NO reward.

    Between 15-29 minutes: Tier 1 rewards

    Between 30-44 minutes: Tier 2 rewards

    45Min+: Tier 3 rewards

    Examples could be:

    Tier 1: Ranks 4 and 5 enchants. RP stones (lesser resonances x1 or Aquamarine x3 or Peridots x6 or something)

    Tier 2: Rank 5/6 enchants. Better RP stones. Companion drops perhaps? Off-tier epic rewards (like Unicorn gear) for instance.

    Tier 3: Rank 6/7 enchants. Tier 1/2 items. Epic RP stones. Companions. Mounts. Cosmetics. ETC



    These are just examples mind you.
  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Everything I think about the foundry has basically been said already, so just a few more things.
    - I love the foundry, I love creating new maps and stories, it's a great and fun way to express my creativity.
    -it falls short on having a reason to run the quests, no rewards. Also it really falls short on the attention it gets. It SHOULD be one of NW's main attractions, and yet hardly anything is being added to it, module after module.
    -It could be improved on many things. Cryptic should really understand they have a gold mine on their hands with it. it's basically free unlimited content. more attention to it, more rewards, both for players and authors and it could really blossom into something beautiful.
    for specific things I'd like to see, non linear quests, bosses, higher limit of people inside a quest, and shops (regular merchants and stuff)
    thanks a lot for creating this topic.
    2e2qwj6.jpg
  • idiotamongusidiotamongus Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I believe there was another forum that contained suggestions.

    For Q4, these are some of my suggestions from a another forum.


    •Timed events
    •A cut scene/movie animation system similar to the beginning cut scene on the shipwreck and Plague Tower
    •Multimap Transitioning instead of just one for free roaming
    •Actual moving objects instead of static
    •Fully customizable encounters



    Also, for Q5. Infamous 2, one of my favourite PS3 games has a similar system to the Foundry. There's a tutorial video of the mission creator which shows a lot of the mechanics it uses. Some of which the Foundry already has but there are some more notable ones such as moving objects and NPC scripting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHm-CIiNP_0
    Neverwinter
    STO
    Smite
    SWTOR
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    spirals999 wrote: »
    Hello foundry community!

    I am Spirals. I'm a sound designer for Cryptic studios. I am trying to do some research on The Foundry and gather data concerning the player community's thoughts on the design and implementation of The Foundry as a medium for user generated content (UGC). We are asking for your help in considering how we might improve UGC now and in future Cryptic projects.

    Please take a few minutes to answer the following questions:

    What do you feel The Foundry does right? What feels good to you and what do you have fun doing? Why are you glad The Foundry was implemented in Neverwinter?
    possibility to play user generated content. that brings more content to the game

    How do you feel The Foundry fell short? What do you absolutely hate doing in The Foundry? What are elements of The Foundry that make you wish it was never implemented in Neverwinter?
    there is not enough possibilities to create content and rewards are seriously lacking

    What would you add to The Foundry to attract more authors and incentivize content creation? How would you like to see The Foundry implemented?
    Ability to add
    • stronger monsters, bosses(with changed drops)
    • more rewards, better drops making it valuable to run foundry as a way to earn stuff like RP, Exp, gear(not top end, but if foundry is hard enough it could reward epics)
    • PvP foundry
    • allow player created dungeons, with good enough rewards

    for more incentive - best PvP maps could be added to standard queue rotation, new pvp modes could be introduced, if a lot of players play it authors can make decent AD, maybe add ability to give them ZEN instead of AD

    same could go with dungeons

    What are some other games you feel got UGC implementation right? What can Cryptic Studios learn from the UGC tools of these other games?

    Thank you so much for your time.

    - Spirals

    Warcraft 3, Counter Strike - PvP content i think there would be a lot of players willing to try foundry PvP content

    Elder scrolls series - freedom of design, ofc its unreasonable to give players freedom to add top end stuff and self designed items, but there should be more freedom in designing it, it would be great if players could design whole maps with tons of content, smth the size and scope of normal leveling maps
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  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    ayroux wrote: »

    "Design a Dungeon" CONTEST Should be implemented where Foundry Authors (maybe only authors who have authored Foundry maps in the past are eligible) create a real dungeon layout and users RATE this dungeon. The winner gets their dungeon actually inserted into the game after the contest.

    This is a great idea. Give me the ability to set mob strengths and I will learn the foundry and create a dungeon to smash 20kgs BiS players to the ground.
  • rafaelribeir0rafaelribeir0 Member Posts: 3
    edited January 2015
    If you put 500 portals in a foundry, they invoke endless mobs until they destroy them. This combined with the Dragon's Hoard generates unlimited Refinements! How to circumvent the cooldown? Just die! The time is reset.

    This is the main and worst exploit involving the Foundry.

    Already reported by the support, but was ignored ...
  • nurmoodnurmood Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    spirals999 wrote: »
    What would you add to The Foundry to attract more authors and incentivize content creation? How would you like to see The Foundry implemented?

    Thank you so much for your time.

    - Spirals

    Wow didnt see that comng! Good that you care!

    Well my idea to motivate people would be campaign based like the PvP campaign. You could have a dungeon subcampaign and a foundrysubcampaign.

    Foundry quests would reward you the same rewards you can get now (i think most peopledont even know what rewards there are) - maybe a special Fahsion set or something. The rewards shouldnt be too fancy to not encourage exploiting or should be gated behind heavy requirements.

    Example:
    Campagin progress:

    -Play the Foundry of the week 0/10 (weekly)
    -Play 100 Foundries 0/100
    -Release a Foundry 0/1 - 0/3 - 0/6 - 0/10
    -Kill 800 Enemies in the foundry 0/800
    -(Play 50 custom PvP maps)

    charononus wrote: »
    Give me the ability to set mob strengths and I will learn the foundry and create a dungeon to smash 20kgs BiS players to the ground.

    +1

    Give the tools to create really heavy enemies. Give the possibility to x2, x3, x4... HP and damage etc - people want heavy content and hard bossfights.

    This way one could create 5 player dungeons that are extremely challenging!
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    nurmood wrote: »
    Wow didnt see that comng! Good that you care!

    Well my idea to motivate people would be campaign based like the PvP campaign. You could have a dungeon subcampaign and a foundrysubcampaign.

    Foundry quests would reward you the same rewards you can get now - maybe a special Fahsion set or something. The rewards shouldnt be too fancy to not encourage exploiting or should be gated behind heavy requirements.

    Example:



    Also of course give the tools to create really heavy enemies. Give the possibility to x2, x3, x4... HP and damage etc - people want heavy content.

    Are you saying only cosmetics for rewards? Because I've seen other games do that and only a small % of players in my experience go for that as a reward structure. The rewards need to have some progression value.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    charononus wrote: »
    This is a great idea. Give me the ability to set mob strengths and I will learn the foundry and create a dungeon to smash 20kgs BiS players to the ground.

    And I would accept your challenge with my guild mates!

    I dont even think you would need a way to set monster strength aside from maybe selecting a player + X level value.

    Meaning if you scaled the monster to player + 1 level, if you go into it at lvl 42 it would be a lvl 43 mob.

    If you set it to player + 15 levels. For a lvl 60, this would be a lvl 75 monster and probably a formidable opponent for any GS character.


    THIS is what I would like to see. then when looking for Foundry maps, you could determine difficulty by the +X level variable on that map.

    Even better would be a way to select that for EACH monster - this would enable you to run like +5 levels on mobs then +20 levels for a "boss", without them having to actually MAKE a "boss".

    Thats the easiest way I see of accomplishing things in Foundry for PVE dungeons.
  • nurmoodnurmood Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    charononus wrote: »
    Are you saying only cosmetics for rewards? Because I've seen other games do that and only a small % of players in my experience go for that as a reward structure. The rewards need to have some progression value.

    Well you can add rewards 2 ways - 1. Final foundry chest 2. Campaign Structure.

    The campaign structure is adressing completionists and also makes the Foundry more visible to average players. Everytime you open your campaign window you see that Foundry campaign - big impact i would say compared to now.
    The rewards you can get now are not only cosmetical (Book Imp / Stone / Cloak transmute). Question is - add anything to that besides making the rewards more visible? Tough decision and depends on the Foundrychest rewards i guess?!
  • apocrs1980apocrs1980 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Basically everything that has been said, and everything that every Alpha and Beta Author has asked for over the past year +.

    Everyone is talking about a reward = effort. I think that the previous posts are on to something here. If you can scale the difficulty of the monsters so that it is neigh impossible for 1 person to complete, and very challenging for a group to complete, then the reward drops should reflect that effort. a change for an appropriate level purple to drop off of elite mobs and bosses.

    Let us make dungeons for you, and you could still have more content to run for PVE, still generate cash from your zen store from people gearing up to smash those dungeons to get that good loot, and give people an incentive to play foundry missions and create them as well. it's a win,win,win.

    worried about folks exploiting the boss or elite monsters? never fear, because 1 person wouldn't be able to take them down anyways. worried about 1 person with multiple accounts doing it? No problem, ban them because they are already violating your ToS.

    The more you restrict the Foundry because of exploitative players the worse it becomes. If your worried about diluting the main content as suggested some time ago "when we requested bosses and dragons" you shouldn't be concerned with that anymore, seriously everyone has farmed the content to oblivion, your not ruining anyone experience that hasn't already left in the last year. what harm is there in giving us access to a gelatinous cube!?
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    Look [email protected] or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    apocrs1980 wrote: »


    worried about folks exploiting the boss or elite monsters? never fear, because 1 person wouldn't be able to take them down anyways. worried about 1 person with multiple accounts doing it?

    actually soloing most bosses is quite easy, they could though add a trigger that if you dont kill x mobs with combined difficulty of y(you can tell the difficulty by life bar) the boss doesnt spawn.

    or boss doesnt spawn for 10 min(you can run eToS faster) so farming it for raw ad isnt viable)

    or dungeons/PvP maps must be reviewed - it could be done by other foundry authors
    Paladin Master Race
  • vadimt83vadimt83 Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I'm not a foundry author, but I still want to give some feedback from the player perspective.
    The foundry in current state is unrewarding, not while leveling and not at level cap. I understand you can't let authors decide on the reward, but something needs to be done to encourage players to play the foundry.
    Maybe select a few quests each day/week/month and make them "approved by GM" and add better rewards.
    Maybe hand out rewards for reaching achievements as a foundry player.
    Or any other idea that would give players an incentive to play the foundry.
  • spirals999spirals999 Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developers Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The feedback you are giving us here is pure gold everyone. The speed and amount of feedback in this thread is indicative of the passion of this community.

    I know that you have asked for many of these things before in separate threads but this is a great consolidation of this information and you all have presented it in very logical, eloquent ways.

    Neverwinter presents unique challenges for UGC because as far as I know.. it is the ONLY MMO with a robust and in depth UGC system. As you can see, its biggest crippling factor is presenting the opportunity for exploits which affect the live game economy and player base.

    These are not easy, quick, or cheap to address. Feedback like this is the first step to making changes which make everybody happy and justify an investment of resources into making The Foundry better for all parties involved.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    spirals999 wrote: »
    The feedback you are giving us here is pure gold everyone. The speed and amount of feedback in this thread is indicative of the passion of this community.

    I know that you have asked for many of these things before in separate threads but this is a great consolidation of this information and you all have presented it in very logical, eloquent ways.

    Neverwinter presents unique challenges for UGC because as far as I know.. it is the ONLY MMO with a robust and in depth UGC system. As you can see, its biggest crippling factor is presenting the opportunity for exploits which affect the live game economy and player base.

    These are not easy, quick, or cheap to address. Feedback like this is the first step to making changes which make everybody happy and justify an investment of resources into making The Foundry better for all parties involved.

    Thanks Spirals!

    For this concern, "its biggest crippling factor is presenting the opportunity for exploits" I think the only way to really manage that would be an "average time" on the foundry runs makes you eligible for X tier loot. Then, just like with HEs or anything really, your loot drops from a loot list within the tier of the dungeon you ran.

    If the Foundry Dungeon/Mission has an average run timer of only 35 minutes youll get a lower tier item(s) than if its avg run timer is 45 minutes.

    Avg run time = tier.


    As for what Resources you guys choose to spend on Foundry. I think the BIGGEST two things that would breathe life not only to the Foundry base but the actual game are:

    1) a PVE dungeon contest
    2) a PVP Map contest

    For this, you dont need a reward system, or really all that much. Just announce there will be a 1 month long contest for both of these. Players submit their maps. (Youd need to enable Foundry PVP). Players vote on the best ones and after 1 month, the most popular dungeon/PVP map gets inserted into the real game.

    For the PVE dungeon, this could be inside a module release, or a stand-alone release.
    For PVP maps, you can just slip it into the Que system without any real issues.

    This would be the first BIG initial push towards foundry. Then with more people making and playing Foundry (both PVE and PVP) you would then be able to more finely tune a rewards system that is appropriate as well as adding more features like boss fights etc.

    I think for the PVE dungeon contest, adding a "monster level scaler" like mentioned before would be GREAT! This would enable you to set Monster levels above the players level to make NPCs much harder and if you made this go high enough, even potentially a "boss" since you could just scale the Monster up and up until it is hard enough.
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    spirals999 wrote: »
    The feedback you are giving us here is pure gold everyone. The speed and amount of feedback in this thread is indicative of the passion of this community.

    I know that you have asked for many of these things before in separate threads but this is a great consolidation of this information and you all have presented it in very logical, eloquent ways.

    Neverwinter presents unique challenges for UGC because as far as I know.. it is the ONLY MMO with a robust and in depth UGC system. As you can see, its biggest crippling factor is presenting the opportunity for exploits which affect the live game economy and player base.

    These are not easy, quick, or cheap to address. Feedback like this is the first step to making changes which make everybody happy and justify an investment of resources into making The Foundry better for all parties involved.


    cough cough everquest next! cough cough

    either way, i dont try to be a party breaker, but the words you are sayin i dont quite bite them.
    all players that gaved you feedback, i want to see facts over them.
    cause for some reason the tone of some you devs postin and interacting with players seems a little off.
    but if you are tryin to be open friendly and do really plan to listen of our player base feedback, than you sir deserve a medal!
  • onecoolscatcatonecoolscatcat Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Take a page from Neverwinter Nights. Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 had lots of community content. The best was given official notice and repackages along with retail copies.


    I suggest you take the best foundry missions, give them official status, and, since NW is all about gear, add REAL rewards to them. Make them dungeons/campaigns/whatever.
  • iandarkswordiandarksword Member Posts: 976 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    What do you feel The Foundry does right? What feels good to you and what do you have fun doing? Why are you glad The Foundry was implemented in Neverwinter?

    I went to school to become an actor/director, telling stories has always been a passion of mine. I enjoy watching an audience, (in this instance, players) have a reaction to the story being told. I enjoy figuring out the motives of a character, their thoughts, their passions. All of this can achieved though text, but as an experience, the Foundry allows that text to become more immersive. I'm glad the Foundry was implemented because one of the core features of Dungeons and Dragons was the ability to create your own worlds, and your own stories. It's why the print rulebooks included an open license to use the material. I'm glad the Foundry was implemented because we as human beings contain the ability to create some amazing stories, and this gives us all the ability to share those stories with our peers.

    How do you feel The Foundry fell short? What do you absolutely hate doing in The Foundry? What are elements of The Foundry that make you wish it was never implemented in Neverwinter?

    I feel the Foundry fell short by lagging behind on updated materials. As the Neverwinter experience progressed through Modules, the Foundry wasn't synchronized to continue with that experience. The lack of updates left many potential stories untold because the means to tell them simply wasn't available. I feel this left many, many, potential authors unable to continue their ideas and hence they lost interest. There currently isn't something I dislike using in the Foundry, but I do feel that more options should be made available to authors as noted by Eldarth's wishlists, and the posts of other Forum members. Again, I feel storytelling is a profound component to the Dungeons and Dragons experience, hence, there is no reason I believe the Foundry should not have been implemented.

    What would you add to The Foundry to attract more authors and incentivize content creation? How would you like to see The Foundry implemented?
    Attracting more authors is not an issue, authors will create if you give them a medium to do so. The problem with incentivizing content creation is the potential for exploitation. To combat this, perhaps a better system of categorizing UGC (i.e. Story, Action, Farm) would better identify the content being created. Perhaps creating pieces to a reward that could be combined for an in game currency cost (tokens, significant AD, etc.) to create a single, player titled epic/legendary item of the user's choice via a NPC Smith completely reliant on Foundry participation. The latter does leave the option for guild exploits, but it would incentivize more players to participate.
    I'd like to see the Foundry implemented as the ability to tell stories alongside and even intermingling with the official content. To some extent that capability exists already, but I'd personally like to see more ability to interact or link with official content. The ability to create PVP maps could also help to revitalize the PVP community by keeping them active with fresh maps and new challenges. Rewards could be tweaked to better incentivize playing quests, such as including refining stones or more valuable items of rare or better quality.

    What are some other games you feel got UGC implementation right? What can Cryptic Studios learn from the UGC tools of these other games?

    Neverwinter Nights
    Neverwinter Nights 2
    Unofficial Baldur's Gate/BGII/IWD Modding communities (Not official, but still useful)
    The Sims (2,3,4)

    The game I used (and still have installed) most extensively for UGC was the original NWN. I liked the ability to create any in game creature, item, or boss and give them unique qualities within the scope of existing game mechanics. Balancing these qualities would be the most difficult task. Again, there are multiple Forum posts on the positives and improvements that many in the community would like to see. I would probably agree with many of them.
    "I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..."
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    Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
  • izatarizatar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    What do you feel The Foundry does right? What feels good to you and what do you have fun doing? Why are you glad The Foundry was implemented in Neverwinter?

    The foundry is the only part of this game or any other MMO that encourages creativity instead of mindlessness. Dungeons and Dragons is about pure creativity and imagination. Imagination drives progress and understanding, and thus the foundry is a powerful learning tool.


    How do you feel The Foundry fell short? What do you absolutely hate doing in The Foundry? What are elements of The Foundry that make you wish it was never implemented in Neverwinter?

    The Foundry falls short in that it encourages mindlessness and crushes community. Rather than promoting cooperation it pits authors against each other in competition. This is madness.


    What would you add to The Foundry to attract more authors and incentivize content creation? How would you like to see The Foundry implemented?


    The foundry does not need more authors, it needs more players. Allowing players to collaborate to build whole new worlds rather than just linear blitzes is what is required.

    What are some other games you feel got UGC implementation right? What can Cryptic Studios learn from the UGC tools of these other games?

    Neverwinter Nights got UGC right. They did this mainly by allowing full modding with players able to collorate and extend the engine with things like databases and persistence.

    Things that could be added to greatly improve the foundry:
    1) persistence. people should be able to join their friends inside a foundry quest without requiring them to reset the instance.

    2) cross-foundry linking. There should be a way to portal from one foundry to another.

    3) collaboration. there should be a way to allow multiple people to edit the same foundry quest (in sequence not simultaneously)

  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    What do you feel The Foundry does right? What feels good to you and what do you have fun doing? Why are you glad The Foundry was implemented in Neverwinter?

    It's easy to use and create some really unique and good looking environments. I was a programmer for a Persistent World in NWN 1 and I was hoping the NW Foundry would be another smashing success. Unfortunately I don't think it is there yet but I want it to be more than anything else you could bring to the table.

    Players can and do create great content. Often better than any development team does because they know what players are looking for first hand. I am happy that the foundry exists because if you give the players the correct tools this would happen.

    How do you feel The Foundry fell short? What do you absolutely hate doing in The Foundry? What are elements of The Foundry that make you wish it was never implemented in Neverwinter?

    The Foundry fell short in basically everything, sorry to say. There's so many little things in everything that even the first iteration of the Aurora Toolset did perfectly.

    For instance sound. In NWN sounds were an area of effect. If I placed a waterfall sound down it would allow me to select how far away this sound would be heard in a spherical distance from the source. In NW this sound is played throughout the entire map or not at all.

    Event Triggers can turn the sound on and off but events can only be triggered once. This means you can have the waterfall sound turn on once and turn off once but if the player walks back to the waterfall it will be silent.

    Basically how the NW event triggers work is the exact same as the NWN Audio Files. I don't understand why such a simple (and universally used) tool isn't in the Foundry's third generation especially since this is something the developers very clearly have access to in the Official Content.

    To go through some other things in a list:
    -Allow us to Disable to Fairy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> Trail
    As nice as the fairy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> trail is when players are in a rush...it's fine if you guys design content around it but better UGC doesn't have a clear cut path. If you haven't noticed already the golden trail doesn't work in many of the spotlighted and featured content to begin with and ends up just confusing players who don't understand why the trail is sending them into a cliff face.

    -Group Scaling
    Seriously needs to be done. It's likely the most important thing on the list because it makes it impossible to design a decently difficult quest right now.

    -Levers
    Need I say more?

    -Random Spawns
    Randomization is the key to replayuability. In NWN we did not place monster spawns! Let me repeat: Monsters were never placed directly in a map! We used event triggers to spawn a variety of enemies off screen. You could go through an area one day and run into nothing. You could go the next day and laugh at how measely three goblins were and the next day you could get surprised by runnin in to the rare chance of a hill giant general and his five body guards.

    Randomization needs to be embraced by the developers as well as the players but at least give us the tools to make our content that much better...



    -Repeatable Events
    Being able to respawn mobs (using the system described above) adds a lot more life to content especially when there may not be a clear cut path to the end result.

    -Instant Death Areas?
    Trolling content needs to be removed and not be a case against such tools being given to UGC. Spike Pit Walkways and falls to oblivion are things the devs use and UGC can not. Imagine how much more riveting Parkour and Maze maps would be with the ability to add consequences for falling or going down the wrong path.

    -Timers
    Complete a task within a set time? Have an event trigger after a delay. Why do players have to spawn mobs and have them fall to their deaths in order to achieve this?

    -Boolean Logic
    Let's say I want to have a door unlock only if levers are pulled in the correct order. If pulling the lever set a logic event to true or false and the logic event allowed more than one lever to be pulled to end up with a true outcome then we could create puzzles and locks without having the objective list give away the darn answer...

    -NWN Style Local Variables
    The release of these with SoU allowed NWN Scripters able to create tools which non-programmers could use to create UGC without Scripting very similar to how you create Foundry Work. The tools which the NWN Community made using Local Variables puts the NW Foundry to shame though. I mean we used these variables to set up entire quest trees. In NW local variables would mean that...at the very least...campaigns could change based on player choices.

    -Campaigns Out of Order
    This is such a minor thing which means a lot to story tellers. If we say our content comes in chapters 1-10 then why can somebody opt to play chapter 10 without playing chapters 1-9? Especially if this leads to a bad review because they didn't understand the story since they didn't play Chapter 1-9? This is yet another thing NWN and the Developers did right which is denied to Foundry Authors for no apparent reason.

    -And finally the only huge thing...Quest Trees. I don't think I have to say more...


    What would you add to The Foundry to attract more authors and incentivize content creation? How would you like to see The Foundry implemented?

    Developers need to work with UGC creators. I understand full well that not all tools can be given to everybody because of exploits but allow those tools to be earned or have some developers add finishing touches to the great UGC and make them official content or at least give improved rewards.

    For instance I do not understand why Featured and Spotlighted Content suffer from the same horrible rewards that Joe Schmoe off the street who made a 5 minute mission with 10 monsters and no story line does.

    Which goes on to the number one issue of all. People who create UGC want their stuff played. There's currently no incentive given to play UGC.

    I understand the fear of exploiting. That happens anyway. In fact I would argue measures against exploiting have hampered players from playing so much that exploiting Foundry Content is more prevalent than playing it for the intended purpose.

    Work with the players. Allow UGC players to earn better loot tables by being legitimate creators. Set up a team dedicated to removing ToS violating UGC. Perhaps set up a team of players that could get prioritized reports for exploit missions or recommend developers to review for good foundry work.

    Let the Foundry Community Moderate itself. If Cryptic follows on reports of bad behavior in a timely manner the needs to prevent exploiting will diminish naturally especially if the rewards given from quality foundry content is superior than the gains from exploiting the foundry which is not the case at this time.



    What are some other games you feel got UGC implementation right? What can Cryptic Studios learn from the UGC tools of these other games?

    Buy NWN right now. Play any Online Persistent World. That's how Neverwinter should be. A massive Persistent World with all of it's players under the same roof.

    Right now Sony is designing EQ NExt and it's planning to incorporate UGC as well. Landmark is more or less a marketed testing ground for the UGC tools and while it's still in its very early stages they already have levers, repeatable events and numerous other basic features Foundry Authors have been asking for since day one here.

    The Foundry didn't fall short because it's missing any one major thing...it fell short because of all the minor things it lacks.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    izatar wrote: »
    What are some other games you feel got UGC implementation right? What can Cryptic Studios learn from the UGC tools of these other games?

    Neverwinter Nights got UGC right. They did this mainly by allowing full modding with players able to collorate and extend the engine with things like databases and persistence.

    Things that could be added to greatly improve the foundry:
    1) persistence. people should be able to join their friends inside a foundry quest without requiring them to reset the instance.

    2) cross-foundry linking. There should be a way to portal from one foundry to another.

    3) collaboration. there should be a way to allow multiple people to edit the same foundry quest (in sequence not simultaneously)


    I have to agree with this.

    I mentioned I was a programmer for a Persistent World...but I wasn't a one man team.
    We used each person to their strengths.

    Giving the ability to create storylines to one person, designing artisticly interesting maps to another and scripting interactions to another is what made content as great as it was no differently than a development company. The Foundry right now requires a person to be an all in one builder but it really should be a collaboration.


    However I do not feel like the current incarnation pits author against author. It simply doesn't allow collaboration. Any feeling of being pitted against each other is purely from the perspective that there is no interaction.
  • zbkoldezbkolde Member Posts: 689 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    What do you feel The Foundry does right?
    Just by being there. For those who love to lead table-top D&D games, or create, write, or just tell stories, it's an amazing tool.

    What feels good to you and what do you have fun doing?
    I enjoy being able to enhance my stories by building the world, placing the characters, and allowing the "reader" to interact with everything. Text on paper (or screen) can only do that with words, not visuals, animations, and sounds.

    Why are you glad The Foundry was implemented in Neverwinter?
    Because it set Neverwinter apart from other MMOs, and gave us creative types an outlet.

    - - -

    How do you feel The Foundry fell short?
    They just gave up on it! Every MMO-oriented media outlet wanted to talk to them about Neverwinter BECAUSE of the foundry. Every other aspect of the game is just like any other MMO, the foundry is what set it apart. I started playing Neverwinter because I love R.A. Salvatore and he played a part in it. But the foundry wasn't just icing on the cake, it was like a whole other cake! But you guys just tossed it aside and walked away and left us out in the cold to focus on making Neverwinter just like all the other games out there, instead of building on the great thing you had that set it apart.

    What do you absolutely hate doing in The Foundry?
    Having to go back and fix my quests after every update. Stop changing our assets, details, NPC appearances, and rules, please.

    What are elements of The Foundry that make you wish it was never implemented in Neverwinter?
    The "adjusted rating system," whatever that is. Been playing foundries for over a year, and it's still the same ones at the top all the time. They are great quests, but don't you think in all this time, maybe, just maybe, someone else came along and made one better?

    - - -

    What would you add to The Foundry to attract more authors and incentivize content creation?
    Read the forums. Out here in the real world, businesses often have to go to where their customers are. Your customers are here, on these forums. And ask Eldarth, he gathers this feedback from all of us.

    How would you like to see The Foundry implemented?
    Ask Eldarth, and then DO what he says. He gathers this feedback from all of us.

    - - -

    What are some other games you feel got UGC implementation right?
    I don't know of any other game that has UGC in the fashion that Neverwinter does. I know there are other UGC games out there, but they are not massive or multi-player in the same sense as Neverwinter. (Yes I know there is STO, but they are in the same boat with us.)

    What can Cryptic Studios learn from the UGC tools of these other games?
    Ask Eldarth.
  • eldartheldarth Member Posts: 4,494 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    For instance sound. In NWN sounds were an area of effect. If I placed a waterfall sound down it would allow me to select how far away this sound would be heard in a spherical distance from the source. In NW this sound is played throughout the entire map or not at all.

    Actually, many (not all) sound effects have a specific radius which can be seen in the 2-d editor as a faint dark green circle showing the limits of the sound effect. It would be nice if this radius were exposed to the UI as a settable property, but at least it is usable. You can also get a little bit tricky and bury/raise the center point of the sound which would effectively reduce the radius of the event at ground level. I've tested this and it does indeed work, but it definitely is trial-and-error unless you want to calculate the height needed to create the desired circular chord radius.

    length-of-chord.png
    -Instant Death Areas?
    Trolling content needs to be removed and not be a case against such tools being given to UGC. Spike Pit Walkways and falls to oblivion are things the devs use and UGC can not. Imagine how much more riveting Parkour and Maze maps would be with the ability to add consequences for falling or going down the wrong path.


    Skymap and (most?) internal cave maps have a "death plane" that can be used, but that then limits content to requiring use of those maps -- a settable "death plane" should be an option on ANY map.
  • eldartheldarth Member Posts: 4,494 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Work with the players. Allow UGC players to earn better loot tables by being legitimate creators.

    Author A has "earned" better loot tables.
    Author B is new and also a well respected fantasy book author that tells wonderful stories.

    As "Joe Player," why would I ever bother to play any of Author B's quests when I get better rewards by playing Author A's quests?

    I think rewarding authors with improved/unlocked content/treasure/experience/etc. is an instant burden/penalty to all other others and simply creates a have/have-not mechanism. I would strongly discourage such an implementation.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    Well aware of that eldarth. Workarounds are not acceptable.

    You shouldn't have a thirty mile deep spike pit for one and it's also extremely unfriendly to use those sky maps in the editor to begin with.

    There needs to be the ability to portion off sections of the map as instant death and damage over time which I forgot to mention. Invisible walls are a lazy way to prevent players from going places they are not intended to be.

    For instance it is a far superior design to make a path through the woods surrounded by dense brush hurt a player over time and encourage them to turn (or die) than wall it off with invisible walls.

    Being able to work around a problem isn't ever a solution. See for instance, timers. You can do a ton of tom trickery and make a timer work...but timers are still one of the most requested changes in this thread...
    eldarth wrote: »
    Author A has "earned" better loot tables....snip

    You can argue all you like about wanting an even playing field, Eldarth....

    You CAN NOT trust everybody. We've been over this before.

    As you argued a few pages back...it can either be denied outright or it can be earned through trust...

    Building trust is a far better option because the current situation is directly caused by treating all players at the lowest denominator.
  • eldartheldarth Member Posts: 4,494 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    zbkolde wrote: »
    How would you like to see The Foundry implemented?
    Ask Eldarth, and then DO what he says. He gathers this feedback from all of us.

    And, as a System Architect that has been developing software on all platforms at all scale/tier levels for nearly 40 years, I'm more than willing to sign any NDA and offer any sounding-board/second-set-of-eyes/code-optimization/bug-identification services all for FREE.
    :cool:
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited January 2015

    As you argued a few pages back...it can either be denied outright or it can be earned through trust...

    Building trust is a far better option because the current situation is directly caused by treating all players at the lowest denominator.

    Honestly my perspective on this is that for the system to work. For new writers to have a shot, for maps to be worth playing rather than open world content, trust must be given and all players must be treated at the highest denominator until proven otherwise. That means having a staff dedicated to looking at reports from foundries for exploit maps, and removing the map and the author swiftly. Anything else ensures that the system is ultimately doomed to failure.
  • imaginaerum1imaginaerum1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 378 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    What do you feel The Foundry does right? What feels good to you and what do you have fun doing? Why are you glad The Foundry was implemented in Neverwinter?

    Honestly, Foundry is what brought me to Neverwinter and what keeps me here. The opportunity to tell stories within the Forgotten Realms world that other players can share and experience is much more interesting to me than doing yet another set of daily grinds for some miniscule amount of character advancement. I like creating Foundry quests, and the ability to make them is the thing that really sets the game apart from other fantasy MMOs.

    How do you feel The Foundry fell short? What do you absolutely hate doing in The Foundry? What are elements of The Foundry that make you wish it was never implemented in Neverwinter?

    For creating content, the biggest place it falls short is in the limited toolset. There are so very, very many details, animations, costumes, monsters, etc. in the live game that aren't available in the Foundry, that it's like trying to make a Lego Imperial Starcruiser using only five different types of bricks. Sure, you can get something that looks like it eventually, but it would be so much better if you had the right building blocks. The toolset should allow us more customization of regular clothing for costumes, should include animated objects already in the game like levers, should include basic functionality already in the game like timers, should include a way to dump parts of an encounter that you have no use for without wasting other resources making a kill room, etc. etc. All of this has been gone over in extreme detail in prior threads. Ask Eldarth and he'll show you exactly where.

    For playing content, it falls short in having virtually no reward system. The end chest is so insultingly junk that many authors have put in details specifically to inform/remind players not to blame them for getting a piece of junk in the end chest. You can occasionally get small amounts of AD from the daily, but most don't bother, because it's not a good investment of time to reward. The main reward people are getting from it is from something that Foundry really shouldn't be for in the first place: farms. In my opinion, using a UGC toolset to make a farm is exploiting the toolset.
    So what do we need? Again, this has been gone over in extreme detail. My suggestion is Foundry tokens similar to the PVP coins. Give some small number of them for completing a daily-eligible quest, and if you save up enough, you can get gear equivalent to the PVP gear (with sufficient comparable time investment), or perhaps some unique items like mounts, companions, or transmutes. Put in a decent reward system, and players will play. However, I would strongly suggest that some function be implemented to encourage people to try new quests instead of playing the same one over and over again. Maybe a "new quest" bonus of those tokens that you only get on first completion.

    There is NOTHING about Foundry that makes me wish it was never implemented. If it wasn't here, I wouldn't be either.

    What would you add to The Foundry to attract more authors and incentivize content creation? How would you like to see The Foundry implemented?

    Improved toolset. If it's in the game, it should be in the Foundry. More rewards for achievements. The three that are there are nice (Book Imp, Bear, Stone), but hard to get. Other than the satisfaction of creating something cool, there is basically no incentive at this time.
    A way to earn some additional budget would be a big plus, as well. I have quests I've abandoned because to make it do what I want it to do, I need another 20 NPCs or another 400 details or whatever. Meanwhile, I'm using virtually none of some of my other budgets. I'd love to able to somehow convert trap budget (for instance) into additional details.
    In addition, and this is the big one, Cryptic/PWE needs to recognize the incredible amount of work and time we the Authors are donating FOR FREE to expand the content of the game, by making Foundry one of the cornerstones of the game, instead of treating it like it has leprosy.

    What are some other games you feel got UGC implementation right? What can Cryptic Studios learn from the UGC tools of these other games?

    I haven't seen any other MMOs that did. I made quests over in City of Heroes when they implemented it, but it was clunky and cumbersome. I haven't played any other MMOs that have UGC. I really like the Oblivion/Skyrim building sets (once I got past the sharp learning curve). That's what making UGC should feel like - if it's in the game, you can put it in your UGC.

    The one thing I want you to take from this:
    Don't rely on this thread for your information. We've been answering these questions in this forum since the beginning, and those answers are all still here. Eldarth, keeper of the foundry lore, has indexes and charts and who knows what, and can point you to exactly what you need to know.

    -- @Gruffydd
  • ortzhyortzhy Member Posts: 1,103 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    to help with the exploit nature of the foundry and also the current artifact upgrade system:

    1- use a similar system as black ice to get the refinement points and not by stone drops (BI system is so much easier to use than refinement system)
    2- change the enchantments to give a chance for refinement points drop that multiply with the mob type, lets say i kill a boss i should have a chance to get 10000 refinement points , while killing a minion gives me a chance for 500
    3- add a timer for a boss to be spawn, so you wont be able to abuse it, lets say 20 min... so on any foundry map you;ll have to wait 20 min for the boss to appear.
    4- brutes should not be such easy kills, they should receive a huge boost in hp/dmg as a a player shouldnt be able to handle more than 2 of them.
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