cryptic stop 25 poeple attack one head

mamalion1234 · December 2014

hi. i liked your idea make pties too cooperate and communicate and the effort that need to complete the tiamat encounter.But are some poeple exploit the fact that they can attack each head all together no matter if is its their colour or not.My concern is why we have gems and colours if all are able to attack the same head.i suggest a pt who attack different head than its color to do 0 damage to be useless.i hate to see poeple with no effort without communication to able to get linus favor.

ironzerg79 · December 2014

What happens when you kill your head, but another group needs help on another head? Or in the last phase where you've gotten all the heads down low enough to kill, and the group knocks them out quickly one at a time to win the fight?

valwryn · December 2014

Ya can't have ZERO damage if don't have the gem for that head!!!
Some parties need help from others to slay their head. If everyone attacks each head one at a time works.....good for them!!!

rotters · December 2014

as long as the required parties take the gem when killing the summoners. that means on every head zerg you have 5 gems to pop, which everyone can stand on.

stah01 · December 2014

Why is it an exploit. Who made the rule you couldnt do that? Should it kick us from zone if more than 5 are on 1 head? Or we can call it a tactic.

I don't understand some of the posts you people put up.

gromm1t · December 2014

"Brute Force" is good tactic when teams are totally randoms and still after all heads are gone down to 20% health then team must see how to take all down on one phase and there its again teamwork, 25 man Brute force splitted and did

last phase,

+ Black to RED & White to RED

,for cleric phase all teams was well placed for protection.

So if HE design is poor, why cry if random teams find pretty good way to beat it... and still teams fails it.

ps. I too dont understand why this post is here...

ganzj · December 2014

I have no idea why you want to report this , is a tactic . The game want us to be cooperation , we show them . We focus on one head and win the fight .

mamalion1234 · December 2014

you call tactic just attack one head is that a tactic? you trolling now and you know it. only you want is to win no matter if you exploit or you cheat.

lewel555 · December 2014

Obviously Cryptic intends us to create five groups, one for each head. Gems, coloured campfires at entrance, it's all quite clear.
Unsurprisingly, 5 groups usually fail, and the completely opposite tactics of having one group of 25 or two groups of 12 is more successful.
There is no exploit here.
And there is not much choice either. The Cryptic way (five groups), if you are knowledgeable, well-coordinated but someone somewhere is below 20k gs you fail, and if all of you are over 20k gs but not all speaking the dominant language of the given timezone (say, turkish) you fail. The Cryptic way, you have to be both all 20k+ and on the same TeamSpeak..
With the Zerg technique, you can win if you are either über-geared or well-coordinated. Or both, but it's not mandatory.

If Cryptic wants to force players to play the skirmish the way Cryptic wants, they have to make the five-group option the most efficient option. For instance by improving considerably the damage your group delivers to "your" head, and improving considerably also the damage delivered to you by the other heads.

ganzj · December 2014

mamalion1234 wrote: »

you call tactic just attack one head is that a tactic? you trolling now and you know it. only you want is to win no matter if you exploit or you cheat.

yes , is a tactic .We ask them all to work together and kill 1 head 1 by 1 . Is that wrong ? Yes we want to win , you are right but we didnt cheat , we killed the dragon . If you dont like the tactic we use to kill the dragon then use your own . Next , if we use the 5 group way , a lot of people just dont wanna listen , we ask them to make group they dont want to , We make group and ask them to join they reject , and lose the fight .

onecoolscatcat · December 2014

It's not an exploit, it's a tactic.

Fact is, Tiamat is so ridiculously easy if I had the ability to invite 24 friends/guildies we'd take her down in one phase, but that's another problem....

tickdoff · December 2014

Definitely not an exploit.

My only problem with that tactic is the lack of communication in the Tiamat mission. If you can get a whole 25 man group on the same page then it can be a great way to win the mission, but I am not confident that a "Zerg" will be able to stop damaging a head at the proper time.

Running with the NW_Legit_Community we usually use the method that I suggest in my guide (Basic Guide to Killing Tiamat), and due to the generally more informed nature of the Average Legit member, we succeed at an impressive % of attempts. Once we can organize 5 man groups we might be able to switch up the basic tactics to make the run a lot smoother.

ximae · December 2014

just a short while ago we we organizing 2 sets of groups, zerg and tactics for split 5 man groups. It def is gona be more fun to do in 5 man groups ( im still zerging as i still neeed the lf for my offhand), buy for it to be smooth we really need to be able to que as a party to ensure good com and gear for a success.

I think some of the instances succeded as split groups.

grabmoore · December 2014

tickdoff wrote: »

Definitely not an exploit.

My only problem with that tactic is the lack of communication in the Tiamat mission. If you can get a whole 25 man group on the same page then it can be a great way to win the mission, but I am not confident that a "Zerg" will be able to stop damaging a head at the proper time.

I just killed Tiamat with that said tactic, where one guy -thanks Eric Cartman from Nightmare Inc.- did all the calls. It was new to me, but it worked with great success.

onecoolscatcat · December 2014

Meh, in any sizable group of people there are bad eggs. In general NW Legit is a force for good.

frishter · December 2014

How dare people experiment different ways to beat an encounter. We should punish people being creative!

tripsofthrymr · December 2014

This is not Cryptic's problem, it is the player's problem failing to coordinate. I'm glad there is finally a boss fight that requires more than a faceroll.

query523 · December 2014

If people want to zerg they should be allowed to. Every single zerg I have ended up in wiped. I'm very careful now with my timing on que...

suttsmoking · December 2014

Well but it good anyway for 25 man on 1 by 1 head!!! some low grear go in on instance to what happen when start doing 5 ppl each head it just fail and wasting time for all

vvv459 · December 2014

Best way is to have everyone attack one head. So that everyone benefits from debuffs. If you fail this way you would fail anyway.

gromm1t · December 2014

query523 wrote: »

If people want to zerg they should be allowed to. Every single zerg I have ended up in wiped. I'm very careful now with my timing on que...

Done it both way and each head own teams is most what fails, 10x succes with whole group attack heads one by one.

Most failures with Brute force came because 3 - 5 players did not understand what to do and tried SOLO per head...

Most failures with team per head came because individual team lacks DPS or slay head too early... many way to fail here.

...so both tactics will fail because individual players/teams fails work with whole team so we need "Premades" for this encounter so high DPS monsters can carry their Guildies through encounter and Guildless players got good reason find Guild.

And then all Drama after encounter is "woohooo we did it" or "...hmmm, we do it better on next run", no more trashtalk here or there, only glitches/lag/bad design stays...

:rolleyes: (until fixed)

[COLOR=#ff0000][20:19] [Zone] mestret: #60 bug[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000][20:23] [Zone] Marc: cleric bug on #18[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000][20:24] [Zone] Su Le: #63 no red head[/COLOR]

zvieris · December 2014

Zerg is the only way to go with the current design. And hey, it's not an abuse, it's a strategy! You simply can't win with random team compositions.

chrcore · December 2014

mamalion1234 wrote: »

hi. i liked your idea make pties too cooperate and communicate and the effort that need to complete the tiamat encounter.But are some poeple exploit the fact that they can attack each head all together no matter if is its their colour or not.My concern is why we have gems and colours if all are able to attack the same head.i suggest a pt who attack different head than its color to do 0 damage to be useless.i hate to see poeple with no effort without communication to able to get linus favor.

So let me get this straight. Because you don't like how some people are doing the instance, you want them to break it? What if I don't like the way you want to do it. Should I ask them to make it so only one dragon can take damage at any given time?

tickdoff · December 2014

frishter wrote: »

How dare people experiment different ways to beat an encounter. We should punish people being creative!

I am all for experimenting, and finding a better way to do the encounter. All I said was "I am not confident that you will get an average PUG to stop the zerg rush before killing a head" And I still stand by that. If everyone follows directions I am sure it is a great way to do the mission. But that is a big IF.

c1k4ml3kc3 · December 2014

tickdoff wrote: »

I am all for experimenting, and finding a better way to do the encounter. All I said was "I am not confident that you will get an average PUG to stop the zerg rush before killing a head" And I still stand by that. If everyone follows directions I am sure it is a great way to do the mission. But that is a big IF.

The average pug won't have enough DPS to kill the head to begin with.

bajornorbert · December 2014

c1k4ml3kc3 wrote: »

The average pug won't have enough DPS to kill the head to begin with.

True. Every instance where the average GS is below 15k-16k is a guaranteed failure. For the 5 team tactics you need 19k+ teams that know how to play.

I've seen people defending the low gs requirement in the feedback thread, but no matter how good you are, at 14k you just don't have enough DPS to beat Tiamat.

So until we can queue with a premade the only tactics that's guaranteed to work, if there's enough high gs ppl on your instance, is the "zerg" tactics. While after we can queue with premades no tactics will work for the pugs, since they won't have the dps to beat it.

fastrean3 · December 2014

panteleelee wrote: »

mamalion1234 why this is exploit becose u are nooob and dont win tiamat our fault?

This is a tactic no exploit learn to play and after talk here.

Some like u destroy this game...like "plz bound peridot etc" and "here a exploit tiamat".

Anyway this is a genius tactic!

And plz other time report and open topic for bugs like for no reword and no chest etc after win tiamat.

Can't agree with you anymore for your comments. And he looks like confuses the use of the gem. GEM is not use to hurt the dragon, it is use to protect player to suffer dragon's deadly aoe damage, you can stand on the green or blue dragon's aoe attack without gem protection if you like.

Current tactic is benefits everyone, low gs player can be involved. Union is strength.

Btw, if dev changes the fight methods like he suggested, it will be almost 90% of fight will be fail. Especially with current broken premade team and player able switch instance. When one group don't have enough dps, and other group player can't do damage to the dragon cuz they don't have the proper color gem. Then it is gg and everyone can leave the fight to save their time.

mutjinninja · December 2014

The zerg is the only tactic that pugs can understand. I tried over 15 times to call out heads, go 5 person per head, and do the encounter as intended. It failed. Every. Single. Time. Pugs are not intelligent enough to comprehend the notion of teamwork and inevitably, one or two heads would be neglected in this attempt to do the raid as intended. The zerg tactic is the only way that I have ever won in killing Tiamat.

I would like to do the raid properly...but that would require cryptic dumbing the raid down to insulting levels so the 10k button mashers wouldn't mess it up for the higher geared players. The zerg is the only thing that pugs seem to understand and the only thing that crosses the multiple lingual barriers. Just like the white through red rotation was developed for the dragon heralds and is now the accepted standard on how to handle the dragons, the zerg has become the standard in the raid. Whatever works the easiest and allows the most minimal of group coorperation and tactics to be used will inevitably be adopted by 90% of the nw population

query523 · December 2014

gromm1t wrote: »
Done it both way and each head own teams is most what fails, 10x succes with whole group attack heads one by one.

Most failures with Brute force came because 3 - 5 players did not understand what to do and tried SOLO per head...

Most failures with team per head came because individual team lacks DPS or slay head too early... many way to fail here.

...so both tactics will fail because individual players/teams fails work with whole team so we need "Premades" for this encounter so high DPS monsters can carry their Guildies through encounter and Guildless players got good reason find Guild.

And then all Drama after encounter is "woohooo we did it" or "...hmmm, we do it better on next run", no more trashtalk here or there, only glitches/lag/bad design stays... :rolleyes: (until fixed)
[COLOR=#ff0000][20:19] [Zone] mestret: #60 bug[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000][20:23] [Zone] Marc: cleric bug on #18[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000][20:24] [Zone] Su Le: #63 no red head[/COLOR]

Uhh,there's a standard zerg timer so you can get all-zerg players. These instances fail a lot. I maybe lose one in ten tactic matches using timed emntry. Tactic does not mean you only fight one dragon. When close to 10% you look for one that is close and has HP and break off toassist that team. Very clean if everyone is on the plan. Even with some low GS players it works out. I mean I tried zerg but there are only so many hours in a day and I need my Linus. I wasted a couple onexperiments and went back to what works. The Tactic groups I had that failed all started the same way. Someone in /say telling everyone to zerg rather than grouping up and getting to work.....

truescrambles · December 2014

bajornorbert wrote: »

I've seen people defending the low gs requirement in the feedback thread, but no matter how good you are, at 14k you just don't have enough DPS to beat Tiamat.

This is literally the most wrong thing I've ever seen someone post on these forums. The best group I ended up with so far was 5 people in the 14k range. We could have killed our head in the first round if we wanted to, yet we still had time to assist an adjacent team that struggled to keep up. Gear Score is almost meaningless. Period. End of story.

mamalion1234 · December 2014

if zerg is the only tactic they can uderstand then you make poeple more clueless how suppose to fight this encounter.also the myth 10kgs die cant do damage i dont believe it. that because wasnt `1st or 2nd or 3rd or 4th but 5 times i pt with 10k poeple only me 18k we did our head we used our gems when needed and we low our head in a fine time not super fast time but was enough to able to success the instance.Or other another time someone changed instance and left pt. then a guy from pt disconnected and changed instance too.all this when the red head had 98% life 3 poeple 18k me cw tr 10k cleric 15k faithfull how we did our head in a nice time not super fast and again win.i prefer 10k 11k 14k than 20k who think gear score and high dps is the key for any success.HOW always the 20k player is the one when he dies says lag?. anyway dont accuse poeple and its not bad to die 1 2 times because of lag because of a mistake because a teammate didnt use a gem.Οne last thing and for me very important when we enter tiamat i am 100% sure 10 of 25 are exp 100% with the fight and good players.FROM those 10 cant the 5 to start make the pties? why emo chat? " oh noone start pt fail" ooooo idiots "" if you want success take the responsibility and lead a party.teach players how to fight even if you dont know them.

cryptic stop 25 poeple attack one head

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