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Tiamat Encounter - Community Feedback Thread

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    jiubiizeekkjiubiizeekk Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 144 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I agree to everyone. Some of us have worked super hard to get to 15-18k GS and in a case like this. The tiamat encounter needs to be a high gear score encounter. There's guildmembers in my guild who are 14k who have do lots of Dps and i'd like them in the encounter but when it comes down to pugging it with 10k Gear score players it become's very annoying because they are under geared not prepared, they are still learning how to effectively use their class in a group, ect.....
    It needs a gear score requirement.
    It needs a local zone chat.
    It needs ingame instructions.
    It needs a better queue system where it allows you to group up with your guild/friends.
    I think i would of rather waited 5 more days for these to be implemented.
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    izworizwor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 238 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Why not 16k? Because:
    14k SW with acursed diabolist is better than 16k 2+2 MC/VT set,
    14k DC in high prophet is better than 16k DC in Purified BI or 2+2 VT/MC,
    15k pve GWF in Awatar is better than 20k pvp GWF, etc...
    Going high gs usualy is wors than wearing BiS pve set.
    Some classes have higher gs than other, even if they invest same amount of time/money (gf, gwf)

    GS requirement to participate should be high, I can agree,
    but most characters that completed four campaigns, have 3 artifacts, ranks 6+
    should be able to participate, this is 14k (15k max) range.
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    ucanthandleucanthandle Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    GS should be at about 14k. That is easy to get and they can contribute. 10k is just not enough. The biggest problem is not being able to do this with friends. Who wants to play a multiplayer game and not be able to play with friends. Every other MMO game allows you to do stuff with friends. This is rediculous. Is a wasted event that may could be fun. Might as well go play a single player game if i cant play with my friends.
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    hefisdohefisdo Member Posts: 709 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    izwor wrote: »
    14k DC in high prophet is better than 16k DC in Purified BI or 2+2 VT/MC

    I have a 17,3k DC with nothing more than epic artifacts, HP set and R7s. Note that R8s are not expensive for veterans, I could've bought them already if I didn't spend AD with my CW.

    It's not hard to get 16k GS as someone that played enough to have a good performance on Tiamat.
    (´・ ω ・`)
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    blazious11blazious11 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Chests and reward shouldnt drop t2 set items. Prices will be around 20k for a t2, nobody will go dungeons anymore. You just killed all the previous dungeons you created, as you did with t1 dungeons with LOL.
    My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
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    abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I just wanted to stop in and say thanks to the developers for the new content. It's challenging, requires thought and coordination, and cannot just be blasted through with an uber group. It makes teamwork important. Strong groups that are handling their head need to adjust on the fly and send members to help out other groups that are struggling. The gems that grant immunity add another layer of tactics to the fight (everyone can't blow their gem at the same time).

    All in all there are a lot of good things going on here and I appreciate the effort and creativity that went into it. I'd love to see more content similar to this.

    That said, there are a few glaring flaws that should be addressed:

    -Framerate issues seem to be prevalent.

    -Not being able to form a party before entering is a really bad feature. People like doing content with their friends/guild members. It's a social game. That this content CANNOT be completed with a party of your choosing is not good at all.

    -Adds really clump up around the middle cleric while the side clerics have very little action. Fewer adds in the middle, more to the sides would make a lot more sense.

    -Each instance needs to have its own means of communicating. There is basically no way for people on one side of the map to communicate with those on the other. "Say" doesn't reach and "Zone" talks to everyone so there's no way to know if the people talking are in your instance or not.

    -It is a really bad design to force people to enter through the doorway in Well of Dragons. If too many people crowd the door then the "hit F to enter" box won't come up. The first time I tried to go in it took 3 1/2 minutes of shuffling around at the door before I could get in. Fix this, please.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    laughingbirddddlaughingbirdddd Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    izwor wrote: »
    Why not 16k? Because:
    14k SW with acursed diabolist is better than 16k 2+2 MC/VT set,
    14k DC in high prophet is better than 16k DC in Purified BI or 2+2 VT/MC,
    15k pve GWF in Awatar is better than 20k pvp GWF, etc...
    Going high gs usualy is wors than wearing BiS pve set.
    Some classes have higher gs than other, even if they invest same amount of time/money (gf, gwf)

    GS requirement to participate should be high, I can agree,
    but most characters that completed four campaigns, have 3 artifacts, ranks 6+
    should be able to participate, this is 14k (15k max) range.

    Agree. and 14cw with hv > 16k 2+2 MC/VT set
    Tiamat is more difficult than Elol but the gs requirement is only 10k.......................................:)
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    healaryhealary Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I suggest that we don't need to donate the coffers and coins for the tiamat hoard reclamation as mostly we will fail in Tiamat.
    I only donated my coins as I had 5000 coins and I need the Linu's favor to complete the campaigns

    There aren't really many thing to get with the coffers and coins to begin with. If artifact offhands are removed too (looks like it), I doubt many people will do the grind for them. Expect fewer and fewer reclamation turn in as this campaign progreses and sorry I don't expect good buff for the Tiamat fights.

    Edit: last checked the guy still sells the offhand for linu's favor, after relogging, but still I expect the coin and coffer turn in will not be enough to get the reclamation level to T4.
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    dzonisa1dzonisa1 Member Posts: 58
    edited December 2014
    arcanaxe wrote: »
    Even with the lag, finally a worth while Raid that is hard and fun to do, not going to be easy. It will take team work and communication to finish it. Overall a good exp.

    Now the question is when is the next tiamat??? Any info

    Go check wikipedia ... this is not a raid, its 25 man heroic encounter. This is not speculation, its facts. OR WoW is doing heroic encounters, and this game "raids "

    Raid has definition what is, what needs to happen etc to make it A RAID ENCOUNTER. This is not.

    I`m not saying this is not worthwhile experiance, just correcting the term it should be called by definition. In my opinion we should call things as they are, this would not lower their meaning or worth.

    For example, if I go out, buy a loaf of bread, and stick mercedes mark, can I drive around that loaf of bread ? Or sell it for 50-100k$ ? Ofc not, so lets not mix terms
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    nobodyz91nobodyz91 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    make alliance 25ppl. we want choice our members for fight tiamat. we dont want other ppl that at the end they offence u.
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    juniorbrk#9896 juniorbrk Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Tiamat is a disaster...
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    healaryhealary Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    hefisdo wrote: »
    The only thing that got me annoyed is that about 80% of the red areas in the ground are misleading or inexistent.

    This. I think this is caused by lag. Some time I saw dragons without heads. Sometimes they did not come with wings. Sometimes I saw a lot of red spots on the ground that really did not exist.
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    tornnomartornnomar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Horrible Lag Fest. Thats all I can say.
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    Branch Lead
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    tickdofftickdoff Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Tiamat is a disaster...

    It is not that bad. Right now we have several problems. LOTS of people are trying to do the mission. There were 160+ instances of the tiamat fight last time I ran it. That is going to cause a lot of lag. Also, many people still have no clue what to do in there. That will change over time. Many MMOs have missions that are not cleared for a considerable amount of time after they are released. We have already had several kills of Tiamat today, and the encounter has only been out for 6 hours.

    Once the newness wears off a bit there will be less instances of the fight running concurrently, and once people learn the fight it will go much smoother. Just give it a little time.
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    sireuainsireuain Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    arcanaxe wrote: »
    Even with the lag, finally a worth while Raid that is hard and fun to do, not going to be easy. It will take team work and communication to finish it. Overall a good exp.

    Now the question is when is the next tiamat??? Any info

    What communication? Zone chat's full of all the other instances, party doesn't include enough people, and local chat doesn't have sufficient range.
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    demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    karakla1 wrote: »
    I had no Laggs, no FPS drop (only at the beginning some missing textures that reloaded quickly) and i think no bug (in the last 20 Seconds the clerics didn't pushed Tiamat back, but i personally think it was because to change to the next phase had take too long).
    Only dislike was that i got seperated with my guildmates, my group got split and we were in 5 different instances, it definitely needs some kind of queue system.

    Same.. I did not have lag.
    Was a fun battle..
    I also got seperated from my guild party.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    jondbxjondbx Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    So in my instance we formed up groups of 5 for each dragon and in a well coordinated effort took all 5 heads down in the 2nd round. But guess what? No one got the success award. Complete waste of time.
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    hercules125hercules125 Member Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    1. For the most part, performance was acceptable through most of the fights. However... occasionally I would get extremely low FPS and lag. The dev team needs to spend time boosting performance for large raid fights.

    2. Too much zone chat going on for the fight, which is useless since you're speaking to all instances.
    Suggestion: Create a new "RAID CHAT" option. Behaves just like zone chat, but only works for your instance.

    3. We need some way to designate a raid leader and have his chat text appear in a different color.

    4. Pre-formed groups need to be honored when entering the zone.

    5. Lose the "reclamation" stuff to increase the reward level. Wont be long before everyone is out, and not many people are going to want to continue grinding. I see this particular event dying a quick death if this isn't changed.

    6. Fix the doors so that large numbers of people can enter/exit at the same time. I had a hard time find an area of the door that I could click.
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    zaikoshenzaikoshen Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Really, what is that?
    This is a terrible queue system to consider this new event called a "Raid"
    OMG!!!
    What is the necessity to have a guild? why the devs dont create a "Guild Queue System"?
    Seriously, for PVE players dont have any necessity to have a guild and enter in a event like that
    what the devs wait for the end game players? carry the pugs in a raid? Give me a break cryptic devs... I am a old school player and all this time I see the classes become more buffed and more OP in comparison with the actual PVE level
    the great hope of all end game AND CASHER PLAYERS was the Tiamat Raid... please! rework this queue system, this is only one more "Epic Heroic Encounter"
    The game have one of the best fight mechanics in-game and better than other good named games in Games Market!
    So please I think i can talk for great part of players here.
    Change this queue system and create a way to do Astral Diamonds on game or remove the AD and do a good investment on craft sets, maybe you can clean a other problem here: The Gold Spammers.
    But seriously, look for end game players and put more dificult on both sides, PVE and PVP, we have a eternal problem of class balance with ignoring defense feats and other things.

    This is Only a little piece of a great mountain of problems we have here.

    Please Listen Old School players and do a solid content for 20k GS(or higher)
    this game is based on D&D everyone know how much content this background have to do dungeons, raids, etc.

    Oh yea, the problem of tiamat do not is the difficult, i do this raid with Deity and Phalanx Guild in 12 minutes on preview server so...seriously, stop buffs and do a investiment on difficult, casual players dont give money and pugs dont stay on game carried by higher Geared players.

    Sorry for my horrible english :)
    vP2Jm4O.png

    <Absolute>
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    zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited December 2014
    Just quoted so this isn't overlooked, as I've had to merge and move a number of threads around:
    panderus wrote: »
    Hey guys, just to let you know, a few of us fought alongside you against Tiamat already and are taking notes on what we want to do to improve this fight. This includes party/instance logistics, received loot issues and difficulty.

    I plan to play at least one more time today and collect more feedback as well as a quick meeting to discuss our plan of action over the next couple weeks.

    Thanks for your patience and ill see you in the game!
    Mod Update: Had the wrong forum selected when merging threads, moved back to General.

    Safe travels,
    Archmage Zebular of Mystryl

    PWE Community Moderator
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    marcoavaraujomarcoavaraujo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    It's simple, just put a system like GG.
    Maybe in the first 10 minutes of every hour is available in Raid of Tiamat queue.
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    healaryhealary Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Make two versions of Tiamat similar to the normal and epic versions of LoL and SoT.

    The normal version should have no gs requirement but easier and either doesn't or has lower chance to drop the best loot. Dragon Cult Packs, dragon gems, dragon bones, dragon eggs as well as T1 or once in a blue moon T2 gear are fine. This normal version can also serve as the practice mode for the epic version.

    The epic version requires 15k gs and drop everything as planned, but don't make it as hard as 17-18k gs is actually needed to complete it or else there won't be too many teams.
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    hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Wow, 15 pages already!

    After a few runs, here is my take:

    The combination of no pre-grouping and only a 4.5 minute setup time in the antechamber is problematic. To take the heads down at roughly the same rate depends on having each group be fairly equally balanced. I don't see that as possible in such a short time when no one knows anyone else starting out.

    Long ago in a place far, far away (a plane that rhymes with "fate"), we had 60-, even 72-man raids. However, it would take an hour or two to set up:

    1. Assemble everyone at the staging point.
    2. Make sure you had enough specific people to get everyone there and evac them out again (which often took several trips for those special people).
    3. Purchase the specific reagents you needed to effect the actual transport.
    4. Make sure you had enough people of certain classes for the actual raid.
    5. Once you're in-country, as it were, you had to break everyone into groups. Each group had to have at least one healer, one tank, and one nuker. There was a raid leader to command each group (e.g. "CLERICS CAMP NOW!") and a second-in-command in case the leader fell. For groups that wound up with low-level healers/nukers/tanks, they were assigned any extras. Other classes then got sprinkled around in an even fashion.

    Such a raid typically would run for 4 or 5 hours. The longest one I ever did first started organizing at 5:30pm on a Friday and ended at 7:30am the next day. The organization itself took 4 hours, though admittedly being the lone surviving cleric I was the last to leave and only after rezzing 50 people after the final wipe (a 1-2 hour process).

    Long story short, with these mechanics we really need a longer time to organize (e.g. forcing all of the HR's to group together is a recipe for disaster!).


    Edit: as far as bugs go, the one I really hate is the lack of warning before getting blasted by the blue dragon breath while defending the clerics. The electrical sparks are really hard to see against gray rock.
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    hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    -It is a really bad design to force people to enter through the doorway in Well of Dragons. If too many people crowd the door then the "hit F to enter" box won't come up. The first time I tried to go in it took 3 1/2 minutes of shuffling around at the door before I could get in. Fix this, please.

    This was a problem for me but I figured out an easy fix: aim high. The doors and the interaction area are tall and you can target it above other player's heads.

    Getting out again, though, is problematic.
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    zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited December 2014
    hustin1 wrote: »
    The funny thing is all the screaming in zone chat (yes, screaming, in caps) about how GS doesn't matter. You need high HP's for the AoE (especially the green one!), high defense for the adds, and high damage to kill the dragon heads -- ergo, high GS. As a 23k HR, I really notice it when I'm suddenly alone with the cleric, surrounded by half a dozen erinyes' and legion devils, and staring at a bunch of green crosses. Thia can do a lot with 34k HP and 4600 defense but at that point it's all she can do to kite and wait until help arrives.
    The reason GS is treated by many as a non-factor is because GS can easily be very high while one has gimped themselves by their gear choices for stat placements. Just because an item gives higher gear score than another, that doesn't mean it is the better choice for one's build.
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    hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Very, very true. I can boost my GS at the cost of 300 defense and 1200 HP, which is a bad idea in WoD. Thia is set up for (near) maximum tankiness at the moment.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
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    alkemist80alkemist80 Member Posts: 957 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Tiamat's fight mechanic is relatively easy, if you understand all the stages and what to do.

    The first problem is communication, either language barrier or people just don't plain read. Then the bug not being able to queue as a group (up to 25) makes it impossible to have a pre-made organized group.

    The second problem is that the GS required for this encounter is too low. It's been tuned for people that are IMO 14k GS or higher. These mobs hit as hard as eSoT or eLoL, then get swarmed. You need the HP's and defenses to sustain such damage. Otherwise for those players it's just a zerg deathfest which reflects negatively on the whole group. It equals to lost dps/heals/support. I understand that Cryptic doesn't want to gate this content but right now it's our "end game" content. Some effort should be put into your character before trying to win this battle.

    I have done this encounter quite a few times today and finally beat her back into the Nine Hells. I am seeing that it is progressively getting better however the encounter itself is not very intuitive. Such as the dragon orbs to help ward off the breath attacks. Perhaps after killing the summoners, something pops on the screen telling the player to pick up their respective orb and put it in their belt slot and to use it during the breath weapon phase. In this fast pace encounter, there is very little time to read tool tips.

    I believe things will start to smooth out in the next few days as everyone learns the fight, but on opening day it has been aggravating to say the least. However after beating Tiamat for the first time, I thought to myself "Wow, that was fun".
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    query523query523 Member Posts: 1,515 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    sireuain wrote: »
    What communication? Zone chat's full of all the other instances, party doesn't include enough people, and local chat doesn't have sufficient range.

    This exactly. Working our way through the game sometimes we hit content that is challenging. You sit, defeated, outside that gate and ask, "what went wrong" and you puzzle at it. You come up with a plan. If it does not work you come up with a new plan and work your way through. Maybe 30% drop out before you even get that far but over time you come up with a plan and impliment it. Tiamat has no such option. You get a zone chat where everyone in every instance is chattering like fools. I've had good parties. But one good party cannot carry the instance. And cross-communications between parties is impossible. It is a good instance that becomes awful due to the complete inability to make a coordinated attack. Yes the lag is annoying. Sure the PUG nature is frustrating at times. But really what breaks it is that we are not allowed to develop a plan and work our way through it.
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    abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    A complaint, if I may.

    For defeating Tiamat I received a Nether Mage's Pact Blade. It would sell well in the Auction House. Except it was bound to my character. I'm a CW and can't use it. A GWF in my group received a main hand weapon for a HR. It was not bound.

    Please don't make rewards my class can't use bound. And please have consistency.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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