That's because you people aren't seeing from both ends of the spectrum, and only thinking in terms of how it would benefit the TR. How good, or how easy it will be for me to take down the other guy. That's the only thing you people are thinking about right now.
In terms of competition everything that is beneficial to us, is in turn malicious towards the other. Hence a reasonable middle point must be the goal and always, you would need to think from both ends of the perspective.
Prior to these changes, while the "stealth depletion on damage" was a very difficult and annoying thing to cope with as a TR, at the same time it was one of the few effective tactics for the other classes to fight a TR in stealth. Be it a wild swing of their sword, a guesswork of AoEs fired off, or just by plain luck, a hit on the TR would shorten the stealth duration and make it worthwhile for the sacrifices and risk the other classes made in order to turn the tide of the battle in their favor. If they couldn't do that at all, every single fight would be massively in favor of any perma build, which solely relies on the protection of stealth while laying down damage.
Hence, under those conditions things were roughly equal, as the opponent would have to face TRs in stealth, and suffer under a very long duration where the initiative and flow of combat was totally dictated by the TR. On the other hand, an untimely incoming hit would screw the rotation for the TR and it was very possible things would turn drastically cascade downhill for the TR, because of one single hit coming in.
...
It wasn't until the amounts of crazy DoT damage coming from broken OP classes like the HR, a class that can not only withstand the attacks from stealth easily, but also given any opportunity would rip to shreds any stealth attempt (and doing crazy amounts of damage at the same time), that this fragile balance began to break up. That, and the frickin' cheese builds from skill-less TRs using PotB to just shave off any stealth from the TR vs TR equation.
But even when such things are considered, for the other classes, CWs, SWs, DCs, GFs etc.. etc.. hitting a TR in stealth is still one of the few viable tactics to be used against a TR in stealth. It's not something we can openly ask for without thinking balance as a whole -- not just by thinking how fun and cool and useful it would be to TRs exclusively.
Hence, the developers, whether it be from purposeful design or pure accident, managed to come up with a compromise point where they finally make it possible for us to remain IMMUNE to damage to stealth -- at the small, modest price of trading in one class feature to another...
...and you people still can't accept even that? You just NEED to have all the class features and stuff benefitting you, and you alone, with all the nice bonuses/buffs those provide, and still want to have the stealth-damage immunity?
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Greed is what led the TRs to the unending series of nerfs. Whatever the whiners think, us TRs are currently approaching the borderline of "competency" and "plain OP". For one thing WK/Scoundrels are now exactly at that point, and so is GC-reliant MI/Sabs. At least from my own 'live-fire' tests in preview, us TRs are now ready to truly claim ourselves "on par with any GWFs, HRs, GFs". With the upcoming changes to CoS I am now honestlfy afraid, that that might push my own WK builds to OP.
Think politics.
We're at a spot where it very advantageous for us to 'negotiate with' and/or 'convice' other classes, so that we retain current changes, but would voluntarily cease in asking for anything more. We're in a great spot, or closing in on one. If we push any further then its gonna soon cross the line, and have everyone standing up against the TR changes -- from which point, the only future we are gonna face is a nerf that once again takes away everything we were given.
Stop this madness and think. Do we really want to antagonize everyone else? Do you people want to fall under the situation where the greedy HR players, or mod-2 GWFs were in? We ourselves already experienced that once around mod-2 where nobody would ever match up to us TRs except the godmode mod2 GWFs. Do you people really want to repeat that mistake?
Some of you people seem to want to push us TRs upto the levels where the current Combat HRs are. Sooner or later, some aspect of their self healing/self defense is going to be nerfed.
Me, I think they're plain OP and broken as hell. That's not what I want for us TRs. I don't want some short moment of OP glory where we be kings for a shortwhile, and then be hit with a nerf-hammer two~three months after the patch.
I'd rather stop at this point where everything is generally satisfactory, and then make up for the small things with my own skill and effort, instead of asking the developers to give us every single item on our wishlist.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Im starting to doubt your intention for this class Kweassa.... seems like you dont like this class to have "EQUAL FOOTING" with other class. You want TR to stick with shadow strike, Tenacious Concealment and 10% reduction offhand? Its really hard explaining important things to narrow minded and kings of showoff.
Now you realise about this? This person won't stop until class is buried few metres underground.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
...and you people still can't accept even that? You just NEED to have all the class features and stuff benefitting you, and you alone, with all the nice bonuses/buffs those provide, and still want to have the stealth-damage immunity?
You're getting it wrong. While there are some people that ask for stealth doesn't depleting with damage, others are just asking for stealth to just normally fill when others already can see you. Tricksters aren't a tanky class and obviously you're more likely to die before stealth fills again in PvP so this idea is more likely to improve PvE performance of the class, where staying alive out of stealth for a while is easier. After one stealth, without using shadow strike or tenacious + off hand, our tab feature becomes completely useless, and this is the only class that suffers from that.
I will never never leave perma stealth without tools to survive out of it. Too many dots too much burst too many passive damage around.
I will die 100 per cent so at least i will <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> them off as long as i can.
This is the only reason for which im ok with at will depleting stealth.
It s not like have chances in any scenario.
Stealth refilling always no matter what and like 30 per cent more deflect can probably change my mind but again the whole *rework* gave us 0 boost except for lashing with lurker assault on. I was happy with gloaming tho.. well nerfed. Cloud will have some use.
However this is the path dev have choosen and i hardly think is going to change.
They are giving us something, im glad they did but the comparison tr vs any other class cant stand.
Again this rework is a "i give you one, i take back 1" addressing 0 of the core problems.
I dont flame/blame just because is funnier to play than before.
I cant say that I have tested the recent changes - but in answer to your question, No
In PVP TR's out of stealth will just be stunned / froze whatever dead, and in PVE they will be out damaged by any other class. Hell since I hate these changes I have started playing a SW and HR. Both of these around 10K GS out damage my current just below 15KTR and have more survival.
The be all and end all is that I see absolutely nothing within these changes that will help TR's survive out of stealth - which when proved true just means all TR's will pick the same route / at wills and play perma's. So I see these changes as a failure because I feel there main aim was to encourage players away from that route, which I applaud the devs for trying. But for it to work TR need a way of staying alive out of stealth - more damage (however nice) link to tab key is not an answer to this. More armour, more deflect, more regen, quicker recovery, more HP pool, these are some areas that will help. More damage does not help in terms of survival
Stealth: Using At Wills while Stealthed now drains 15% of your Stealth Meter per attack.
Stealth depleting.
Stealth gives rogues two things: Combat Advantage (nominally 15% more damage) and kind of semi-defense "untargetable" (at least on paper it should be, but this is another story :mad:)
No for draining stealth by using melee attacks. At-wills like SF, DF should works like GC(MI).
Close combat fighting rogue is/was always visible and targetable for at least one or sometime more opponents because of short distance (seems someone forgot that stealth was already nerfed.. long, long time ago). So now when after ~3 hits rouge become visible for all, what definitely means big troubles including instant death. In case of melee attacks next nerf is too much.
Ranged at-wills: CoS, DS(WK).. maybe, but something for something..
CoS should has no charges, and both at-wills should has range increased up to 80'.
In PVP TR's out of stealth will just be stunned / froze whatever dead, and in PVE they will be out damaged by any other class. Hell since I hate these changes I have started playing a SW and HR. Both of these around 10K GS out damage my current just below 15KTR and have more survival.
tested and proven this is all true, we keep on asking because we know what is enough and what is lacking. For example a HR 3 encounters 2 Atwills in melee just press Tab and you get another 3 encounters and 2 atwills hustle free! no cooldowns! simple as <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>! But for TR press Tab if you use smoke bomb that advantage becomes slow haha! pathetic! use shadow strike and you will refresh the meter and short daze for what? a grain of damage? Another issue I noticed is that some feats and passives rely too much in stealth and daily so that means without stealth its useless... without activating dailies still useless so we have lots of dead feats when we are visible why dont they make something thats is not stealth base that will solve the problem.
I understand you don't want to be OP again, because we'll get nerfed again Kweassa, but I don't think that the ability to enter stealth once ever 10-15 secs is op at all. Specially now that stealth lasts around 2-3 secs. Remember that this is for scoundrel and executioner, saboteur already has many faster ways to regain stealth and probably would never need it.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited October 2014
feedback: Please increase the damage of shocking execution, currently it does less damage than basic at wills...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Prior to these changes, while the "stealth depletion on damage" was a very difficult and annoying thing to cope with as a TR, at the same time it was one of the few effective tactics for the other classes to fight a TR in stealth. Be it a wild swing of their sword, a guesswork of AoEs fired off, or just by plain luck, a hit on the TR would shorten the stealth duration and make it worthwhile for the sacrifices and risk the other classes made in order to turn the tide of the battle in their favor. If they couldn't do that at all, every single fight would be massively in favor of any perma build, which solely relies on the protection of stealth while laying down damage.
Hence, under those conditions things were roughly equal, as the opponent would have to face TRs in stealth, and suffer under a very long duration where the initiative and flow of combat was totally dictated by the TR. On the other hand, an untimely incoming hit would screw the rotation for the TR and it was very possible things would turn drastically cascade downhill for the TR, because of one single hit coming in.
...
It wasn't until the bullshi* amounts of crazy DoT damage coming from broken OP classes like the HR, a class that can not only withstand the attacks from stealth easily, but also given any opportunity would rip to shreds any stealth attempt (and doing crazy amounts of damage at the same time), that this fragile balance began to break up. That, and the frickin' cheese builds from skill-less TRs using PotB to just shave off any stealth from the TR vs TR equation.
But even when such things are considered, for the other classes, CWs, SWs, DCs, GFs etc.. etc.. hitting a TR in stealth is still one of the few viable tactics to be used against a TR in stealth. It's not something we can openly ask for without thinking balance as a whole -- not just by thinking how fun and cool and useful it would be to TRs exclusively.
I actually agree with most of what was said here. However, I really don't see how stealth refilling naturally unhindered by damage WHILE OUT OF STEALTH affects any of that. Even if you take twilight adept into consideration someone would have at least 5 seconds to either catch a TR during his vulnerability window or afflict him with DOTS that would eat his stealth once he did re-stealth. That's all assuming the TR had full stamina to begin with, because stealth is not damage immunity and the chances are high in either PVE or PVP that the TR is going to be forced to use dodges to avoid aoes or reposition while in stealth.
Hence, the developers, whether it be from purposeful design or pure accident, managed to come up with a compromise point where they finally make it possible for us to remain IMMUNE to damage to stealth -- at the small, modest price of trading in one class feature to another...
If anything sounds broken or OP it is this, since it affects a rogue in stealth or out. Also this is entirely dependent on both gear and obscure information. Can we pretend to care about new players or casual players at least once? I for one do not want to be in the position of being a member of the class where the difference between the haves and have-nots is so brutal, it's bad enough as it is.
More to the point dots and stealth damage is key in long winded drawn out battles. Based on my first impression of the new PVP relative balance between classes, I'm not sure this is really going to happen as often.
For example using a bile enchant + dot based aoe attacks might not help a CW much if he then lacks the CC and burst to catch and heavily damage the TR when the opportunity presents itself and the TR shreds him with heavy hits.
Personally, I'm not sure I'm going to be slotting TC in PVP to begin with. Flurry is what made me need it, and gloaming is so sexy with sneak attack + skillful infiltrator.
I agree with Kwessa and my own feedback agrees with him.
You guys are asking for way too much. There will be far too few ways to even combat rogues. Even with the at will drains. With how much damage we're doing, wouldnt barely use them from stealth anyway.
We are making a slight change to stealth depletion from damage as a QoL change, and to remove the disproportionate penalty applied by having a damage over time effect on you.
Trickster Rogue: Stealth: Stealth depletion from damage is now directly related to how much damage the target deals. You lose an amount equal to the percent of HP that you lose in the attack.
This means that small hits will still block stealth regeneration for 3 seconds, but will no longer rapidly drain out the entire meter. This also conversely means that major hits and massive damage will drain far larger chunks of the meter than the previously did.
This won't be in today's preview push, but will be in for next week.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
We are making a slight change to stealth depletion from damage as a QoL change, and to remove the disproportionate penalty applied by having a damage over time effect on you.
Trickster Rogue: Stealth: Stealth depletion from damage is now directly related to how much damage the target deals. You lose an amount equal to the percent of HP that you lose in the attack.
This means that small hits will still block stealth regeneration for 3 seconds, but will no longer rapidly drain out the entire meter. This also conversely means that major hits and massive damage will drain far larger chunks of the meter than the previously did.
This won't be in today's preview push, but will be in for next week.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Sounds like a step in the right direction. Look forward to testing it out
............
................tenacius concilement my dear best friend ♥
Worst quality of life ever seen since release.
It would make more sense to refill the stealth upon damage taken.
And also whats the matter if it stops refilling? Should i see any difference in gameplay?
We are making a slight change to stealth depletion from damage as a QoL change, and to remove the disproportionate penalty applied by having a damage over time effect on you.
Trickster Rogue: Stealth: Stealth depletion from damage is now directly related to how much damage the target deals. You lose an amount equal to the percent of HP that you lose in the attack.
This means that small hits will still block stealth regeneration for 3 seconds, but will no longer rapidly drain out the entire meter. This also conversely means that major hits and massive damage will drain far larger chunks of the meter than the previously did.
This won't be in today's preview push, but will be in for next week.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
You should also block all dots from draining stealth then it would be fine.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
This also conversely means that major hits and massive damage will drain far larger chunks of the meter than the previously did.
To be honest, this sounds like punishment for the sin of being a TR on the battlefield with a bad guardian fighter (or several of them, or any other class with amazing dragon-spinning capabilities). No matter how much you try to make use of your agility, somebody is going to make sure you get a dragon tail in the face (or several of them).
The structure of heroic encounters means that this happens a lot more often than a wonderfully choreographed and controlled fight in which everyone performs their role smoothly and well.
I run pretty tanky TRs with gobs of hitpoints and decent deflection, so maybe it won't be as bad as I fear though.
blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
edited October 2014
It may fix the pvp problem, (I'm not sure about this), but I guess it won't really make a (positive) difference in PVE. May effect negatively in new HE-s and PVE content.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
I am not sure if I understand, this would basically mean that if you were under a dot that you would not be able to start regenerating stealth until 3 seconds after the last damage tick of the dot?
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shunterinoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
Doesn't feel like much of a QoL improvement, but then you didn't say it was an improvement just a change. The less stealth depletion from lower damage is good, the big depletion from higher damage is bad, so pretty much a zero sum gain. It's the inability to regen stealth when taking damage that is the problem for most TRs (3 seconds is a long time for someone to get another hit in to keep you unable to regen). Basically once you're out of stealth in a fight the only way back in is with a stealth refilling encounter. So no change there then.
I am not sure if I understand, this would basically mean that if you were under a dot that you would not be able to start regenerating stealth until 3 seconds after the last damage tick of the dot?
Yes, however, a dot, or many small hits isn't going to empty your stealth bar in a flash like it does now. Meaning in PVE you could potentially refill stealth by using GC + twilight adept and avoiding the big hits. Eager to test this, I actually like the idea that things like IBS and ice knife will rip out huge chunks of stealth, rogue on rogue combat should be...... more interesting as well.
what about path of the blade? it's a constant ticking aoe for 100 damage per sec on 3 targets and it's main purpose was just perma rogues. since the utility will soon be nonexistant.....does this mean it needs to be overhauled again?
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited October 2014
LOL imagine if the GWF lost determination while taking damage. As much sense as this makes.
This only forces you to need to slot shadow strike just to refill your meter in a fight.
The TR is the only class who's punished in a fight. DCs build divinity, GWFs build determination, GF can easily maintain their guard, TR cannot regen stealth:mad:
LOL imagine if the GWF lost determination while taking damage. As much sense as this makes.
This only forces you to need to slot shadow strike just to refill your meter in a fight.
The TR is the only class who's punished in a fight. DCs build divinity, GWFs build determination, GF can easily maintain their guard, TR cannot regen stealth:mad:
It seems this concept is hard to understand. This change brings zero
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
LOL imagine if the GWF lost determination while taking damage. As much sense as this makes.
GWFs don't get to build determination out of combat though, and it drains pretty quickly once combat is exited. Kind of the opposite problem.
(Not saying I'm thrilled with it, see an earlier post for my initial reaction. Just that they're not comparable. GWF needs to be actively in combat to access their tab at all, and it has been nerfed.)
GWFs don't get to build determination out of combat though, and it drains pretty quickly once combat is exited. Kind of the opposite problem.
(Not saying I'm thrilled with it, see an earlier post for my initial reaction. Just that they're not comparable. GWF needs to be actively in combat to access their tab at all, and it has been nerfed.)
What about cw getting their cooldowns on tab increased upon damage taken?
Yes, however, a dot, or many small hits isn't going to empty your stealth bar in a flash like it does now. Meaning in PVE you could potentially refill stealth by using GC + twilight adept and avoiding the big hits. Eager to test this, I actually like the idea that things like IBS and ice knife will rip out huge chunks of stealth, rogue on rogue combat should be...... more interesting as well.
I was thinking more in line of an executioner in PvP and that they could be pretty much neutralized by default and forced to slot SS (of course I guess they were forced to anyways). This just seems like it makes it easier for the perma stealth TR and more difficult for those that try to play the TR in the manner they intended for the paths. I can't use GC and with no improvement to SE and the nerf to ITC I was going to go WK anyways. I was trying to find justifications to choosing a path other than saboteur but I keep feeling like I am being herded to choose that and I hate playing a perma stealth rogue and as I was seeing less damage from the scoundrel than on live (I want to play scoundrel but I also want to contribute to groups too and I don't see that it offers enough). I still haven't had a chance to test the latest round of changes and hopefully there will be more later so it is yet uncertain.
Comments
In terms of competition everything that is beneficial to us, is in turn malicious towards the other. Hence a reasonable middle point must be the goal and always, you would need to think from both ends of the perspective.
Prior to these changes, while the "stealth depletion on damage" was a very difficult and annoying thing to cope with as a TR, at the same time it was one of the few effective tactics for the other classes to fight a TR in stealth. Be it a wild swing of their sword, a guesswork of AoEs fired off, or just by plain luck, a hit on the TR would shorten the stealth duration and make it worthwhile for the sacrifices and risk the other classes made in order to turn the tide of the battle in their favor. If they couldn't do that at all, every single fight would be massively in favor of any perma build, which solely relies on the protection of stealth while laying down damage.
Hence, under those conditions things were roughly equal, as the opponent would have to face TRs in stealth, and suffer under a very long duration where the initiative and flow of combat was totally dictated by the TR. On the other hand, an untimely incoming hit would screw the rotation for the TR and it was very possible things would turn drastically cascade downhill for the TR, because of one single hit coming in.
...
It wasn't until the amounts of crazy DoT damage coming from broken OP classes like the HR, a class that can not only withstand the attacks from stealth easily, but also given any opportunity would rip to shreds any stealth attempt (and doing crazy amounts of damage at the same time), that this fragile balance began to break up. That, and the frickin' cheese builds from skill-less TRs using PotB to just shave off any stealth from the TR vs TR equation.
But even when such things are considered, for the other classes, CWs, SWs, DCs, GFs etc.. etc.. hitting a TR in stealth is still one of the few viable tactics to be used against a TR in stealth. It's not something we can openly ask for without thinking balance as a whole -- not just by thinking how fun and cool and useful it would be to TRs exclusively.
Hence, the developers, whether it be from purposeful design or pure accident, managed to come up with a compromise point where they finally make it possible for us to remain IMMUNE to damage to stealth -- at the small, modest price of trading in one class feature to another...
...and you people still can't accept even that? You just NEED to have all the class features and stuff benefitting you, and you alone, with all the nice bonuses/buffs those provide, and still want to have the stealth-damage immunity?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Think politics.
We're at a spot where it very advantageous for us to 'negotiate with' and/or 'convice' other classes, so that we retain current changes, but would voluntarily cease in asking for anything more. We're in a great spot, or closing in on one. If we push any further then its gonna soon cross the line, and have everyone standing up against the TR changes -- from which point, the only future we are gonna face is a nerf that once again takes away everything we were given.
Stop this madness and think. Do we really want to antagonize everyone else? Do you people want to fall under the situation where the greedy HR players, or mod-2 GWFs were in? We ourselves already experienced that once around mod-2 where nobody would ever match up to us TRs except the godmode mod2 GWFs. Do you people really want to repeat that mistake?
Some of you people seem to want to push us TRs upto the levels where the current Combat HRs are. Sooner or later, some aspect of their self healing/self defense is going to be nerfed.
Me, I think they're plain OP and broken as hell. That's not what I want for us TRs. I don't want some short moment of OP glory where we be kings for a shortwhile, and then be hit with a nerf-hammer two~three months after the patch.
I'd rather stop at this point where everything is generally satisfactory, and then make up for the small things with my own skill and effort, instead of asking the developers to give us every single item on our wishlist.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Now you realise about this? This person won't stop until class is buried few metres underground.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
You're getting it wrong. While there are some people that ask for stealth doesn't depleting with damage, others are just asking for stealth to just normally fill when others already can see you. Tricksters aren't a tanky class and obviously you're more likely to die before stealth fills again in PvP so this idea is more likely to improve PvE performance of the class, where staying alive out of stealth for a while is easier. After one stealth, without using shadow strike or tenacious + off hand, our tab feature becomes completely useless, and this is the only class that suffers from that.
I will die 100 per cent so at least i will <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> them off as long as i can.
This is the only reason for which im ok with at will depleting stealth.
It s not like have chances in any scenario.
Stealth refilling always no matter what and like 30 per cent more deflect can probably change my mind but again the whole *rework* gave us 0 boost except for lashing with lurker assault on. I was happy with gloaming tho.. well nerfed. Cloud will have some use.
However this is the path dev have choosen and i hardly think is going to change.
They are giving us something, im glad they did but the comparison tr vs any other class cant stand.
Again this rework is a "i give you one, i take back 1" addressing 0 of the core problems.
I dont flame/blame just because is funnier to play than before.
I cant say that I have tested the recent changes - but in answer to your question, No
In PVP TR's out of stealth will just be stunned / froze whatever dead, and in PVE they will be out damaged by any other class. Hell since I hate these changes I have started playing a SW and HR. Both of these around 10K GS out damage my current just below 15KTR and have more survival.
The be all and end all is that I see absolutely nothing within these changes that will help TR's survive out of stealth - which when proved true just means all TR's will pick the same route / at wills and play perma's. So I see these changes as a failure because I feel there main aim was to encourage players away from that route, which I applaud the devs for trying. But for it to work TR need a way of staying alive out of stealth - more damage (however nice) link to tab key is not an answer to this. More armour, more deflect, more regen, quicker recovery, more HP pool, these are some areas that will help. More damage does not help in terms of survival
All the best
Stealth depleting.
Stealth gives rogues two things: Combat Advantage (nominally 15% more damage) and kind of semi-defense "untargetable" (at least on paper it should be, but this is another story :mad:)
No for draining stealth by using melee attacks. At-wills like SF, DF should works like GC(MI).
Close combat fighting rogue is/was always visible and targetable for at least one or sometime more opponents because of short distance (seems someone forgot that stealth was already nerfed.. long, long time ago). So now when after ~3 hits rouge become visible for all, what definitely means big troubles including instant death. In case of melee attacks next nerf is too much.
Ranged at-wills: CoS, DS(WK).. maybe, but something for something..
CoS should has no charges, and both at-wills should has range increased up to 80'.
ps. I hope above is in English
tested and proven this is all true, we keep on asking because we know what is enough and what is lacking. For example a HR 3 encounters 2 Atwills in melee just press Tab and you get another 3 encounters and 2 atwills hustle free! no cooldowns! simple as <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>! But for TR press Tab if you use smoke bomb that advantage becomes slow haha! pathetic! use shadow strike and you will refresh the meter and short daze for what? a grain of damage? Another issue I noticed is that some feats and passives rely too much in stealth and daily so that means without stealth its useless... without activating dailies still useless so we have lots of dead feats when we are visible why dont they make something thats is not stealth base that will solve the problem.
Please increase the damage of shocking execution, currently it does less damage than basic at wills...
I actually agree with most of what was said here. However, I really don't see how stealth refilling naturally unhindered by damage WHILE OUT OF STEALTH affects any of that. Even if you take twilight adept into consideration someone would have at least 5 seconds to either catch a TR during his vulnerability window or afflict him with DOTS that would eat his stealth once he did re-stealth. That's all assuming the TR had full stamina to begin with, because stealth is not damage immunity and the chances are high in either PVE or PVP that the TR is going to be forced to use dodges to avoid aoes or reposition while in stealth.
If anything sounds broken or OP it is this, since it affects a rogue in stealth or out. Also this is entirely dependent on both gear and obscure information. Can we pretend to care about new players or casual players at least once? I for one do not want to be in the position of being a member of the class where the difference between the haves and have-nots is so brutal, it's bad enough as it is.
More to the point dots and stealth damage is key in long winded drawn out battles. Based on my first impression of the new PVP relative balance between classes, I'm not sure this is really going to happen as often.
For example using a bile enchant + dot based aoe attacks might not help a CW much if he then lacks the CC and burst to catch and heavily damage the TR when the opportunity presents itself and the TR shreds him with heavy hits.
Personally, I'm not sure I'm going to be slotting TC in PVP to begin with. Flurry is what made me need it, and gloaming is so sexy with sneak attack + skillful infiltrator.
You guys are asking for way too much. There will be far too few ways to even combat rogues. Even with the at will drains. With how much damage we're doing, wouldnt barely use them from stealth anyway.
This means that small hits will still block stealth regeneration for 3 seconds, but will no longer rapidly drain out the entire meter. This also conversely means that major hits and massive damage will drain far larger chunks of the meter than the previously did.
This won't be in today's preview push, but will be in for next week.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Sounds like a step in the right direction. Look forward to testing it out
................tenacius concilement my dear best friend ♥
Worst quality of life ever seen since release.
It would make more sense to refill the stealth upon damage taken.
And also whats the matter if it stops refilling? Should i see any difference in gameplay?
You should also block all dots from draining stealth then it would be fine.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
To be honest, this sounds like punishment for the sin of being a TR on the battlefield with a bad guardian fighter (or several of them, or any other class with amazing dragon-spinning capabilities). No matter how much you try to make use of your agility, somebody is going to make sure you get a dragon tail in the face (or several of them).
The structure of heroic encounters means that this happens a lot more often than a wonderfully choreographed and controlled fight in which everyone performs their role smoothly and well.
I run pretty tanky TRs with gobs of hitpoints and decent deflection, so maybe it won't be as bad as I fear though.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Yes, however, a dot, or many small hits isn't going to empty your stealth bar in a flash like it does now. Meaning in PVE you could potentially refill stealth by using GC + twilight adept and avoiding the big hits. Eager to test this, I actually like the idea that things like IBS and ice knife will rip out huge chunks of stealth, rogue on rogue combat should be...... more interesting as well.
Can this be changed to 1 sec?
This only forces you to need to slot shadow strike just to refill your meter in a fight.
The TR is the only class who's punished in a fight. DCs build divinity, GWFs build determination, GF can easily maintain their guard, TR cannot regen stealth:mad:
It seems this concept is hard to understand. This change brings zero
GWFs don't get to build determination out of combat though, and it drains pretty quickly once combat is exited. Kind of the opposite problem.
(Not saying I'm thrilled with it, see an earlier post for my initial reaction. Just that they're not comparable. GWF needs to be actively in combat to access their tab at all, and it has been nerfed.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I was thinking more in line of an executioner in PvP and that they could be pretty much neutralized by default and forced to slot SS (of course I guess they were forced to anyways). This just seems like it makes it easier for the perma stealth TR and more difficult for those that try to play the TR in the manner they intended for the paths. I can't use GC and with no improvement to SE and the nerf to ITC I was going to go WK anyways. I was trying to find justifications to choosing a path other than saboteur but I keep feeling like I am being herded to choose that and I hate playing a perma stealth rogue and as I was seeing less damage from the scoundrel than on live (I want to play scoundrel but I also want to contribute to groups too and I don't see that it offers enough). I still haven't had a chance to test the latest round of changes and hopefully there will be more later so it is yet uncertain.