I'm not saying it should be like this, I'm saying it is what we'll probably get. People were asking for a more challenging content since a while and what did we get so far?
I love the idea of raiding in neverwinter. What I don't like is how easy it sounds like it's going to be. Now I hate gearscore elitism, but if it only requires a 10K GS that means this raid will be easier than epic lostmauth. That's not cool to me as we're supposed to be progressing the story, not tackling weaker bosses. Like if in Dragon Ball Z Goku had to fight Vageta for the first time after he fought Cell... that would have sucked.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
... Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
Do you really think someone with low gear should be able to kill tiamat a 5 headed dragon goddess before they have the requirements to beat lostmauth?
You start killing dragons at lvl 30 with green trash, so who cares if a goddess gets into the mix at lvl 60? This is not D&D, it just carrys the trademark for licence-costs.
I would recommend you a different non-online game if you are one for the lore. Neverwinter is a lot more fun if you do not take it as a serious D&D-game.
You start killing dragons at lvl 30 with green trash, so who cares if a goddess gets into the mix at lvl 60? This is not D&D, it just carrys the trademark for licence-costs.
I would recommend you a different non-online game if you are one for the lore. Neverwinter is a lot more fun if you do not take it as a serious D&D-game.
I'm not, but when it comes to games, it's more rewarding to have challenging end bosses than an easy yawn fest that just leaves you disappointed. Basically by allowing 10k gs people to join, if they can actually complete it they can be satisfied with beating the final content without putting barely any work in while those that did invest in their toon just wasted their time. There's no excitement in a stompfest and clearly the difference between 10 and 20k gs is major. Like I said before, is lostmauth really a more worthy enemy than tiamat? It's about making the gameplay good, rewarding and memorable.
I found it much less fun when they decided to bind the rewards, lower the drop rates (both wasting my time), inflate the gear without content appropriately scaled and be slow at fixing issues while releasing new ones.
0
Options
luxarkMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
My own idea about this dungeon. So far we know that it's a 25 Person Dungeon Raid. But we won't travel in one huge group of 25 but in 5 separate groups with 5 people in each group. Tiamat has a 5-headed dragon so each group will fight with one head.
Now for me there are 2 options - there are 5 gates for 5 parties before the last boss and we fight with her dragon at the same time on 5 platforms. Thus the first party reaching the gate needs to wait for other parties to do so.
Or each party can go in and start a fight and then next parties have separate counters for entering and still fight with one of his heads at the time.
It's also possible that each head has own abilities copied from already existing dragons in Neverdeath, Ebons, Icespire, Rothe and Whispering (5 dragons).
Dragon will turn when he loses 1/5 of his HP and party needs to fight with another head till 2/5 and so on. In that case each party has to adjust tactics to the next head and all parties have a chance to fight with each head.
Or in the end platforms merge and whole 25-person raid fights together in the last phase.
Somehow I don't see 25 people near one chest so there will be 5 chests for 5 groups of 5 people.
Of course it's just my own idea how it could look like
Plausible yes. My thoughts > Yes you will progress down different paths but you will all end up in the same room. Im not versed AT ALL on the lore of DnD so I may be speaking <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> right now but the way i envisioned this is that the last boss is a Multi Stage boss (if that makes sense). Basically it will be as you said you all fight a different head OR you all fight the dragons from the the previous campaign ie the previous five dragons. BUT You kill them.... cue cutscene.... You see valindra or whoever come in and perform some ritual which you played a part in by killing the five dragons at the same time. You enabled her to summon Tiamat from their five dead bodies. Basically a fusion type thing. Then bam all teams meet up and beat the beejeezus out of her and send her back to the hell she came from
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Zelfiron: Control Wizard
Siana: Trickster Rogue
Andromeda: Devoted Cleric
Death Strike: Guardian Fighter
Blind Fury: Great Weapon Fighter
Phantom Reaper: Hunter Ranger (To be Changed to Huntress when I figure out how to)
Helena: Oathbound Paladin
Bad Juju: Scourge Warlock
Plausible yes. My thoughts > Yes you will progress down different paths but you will all end up in the same room.
Probably not. I don't know why people keep talking about this. No game so far uses such a mechanic, because it's bad. The 5th team is late? Well too bad, you have to wait for the suckers for 20 mins. This wouldn't work. So I'm assuming it's going to be one group of 25 people; the only surprise will be 5 teams of 5 to keep buffs under control or one team of 25, which would require some UI adjustments but would make the run much more interesting for support chars provided multiple copies of the same spells/buffs can't stack. We'd have Mr Knight's valor, Mr aggro, Mr healbot, Mr buffbot, etc. Yes a 25 men team would add a lot of cool stuff to the gameplay IMO but given what gauntlgrym is I doubt it's going to be the solution the devs used. That would require a lot of adjustments to spells and class mechanics unless stuff hits so hard you'd need let's sayn multiple SWs/DCs to keep 25 people alive. We'll see.
IMO FPS drops is a very poor excuse some people seem to use because they don't want the gameplay to be expanded, if there are issues they will be fixed because the forums will be a complete mess and the devs will have to do something anyway.
We have confirmation that the Tiamat fight is set up like a HE , so I'D GUESS you run a instance with a party of five and when you finish that you get the ability to queue for the Tiamat fight where you and 24 others who have done the instance get to fight Tiamat.
The fight is set up as a Heroic Encounter as far as the mechanics of getting your loot go but there will be no reward tiers for DPS/Healing/Tanking other than a minimum threshold for participation. Not that there will be much chance of victory if some players are not participating.
We have confirmation that the Tiamat fight is set up like a HE , so I'D GUESS you run a instance with a party of five and when you finish that you get the ability to queue for the Tiamat fight where you and 24 others who have done the instance get to fight Tiamat.
Graaxl3 talking about the new raid-
He only mentionned loots are individual, nothing else. No rolls, click on collect and what drops is yours. Anything could happen, even one team of 25 people. Don't make him say what he didn't say.
I'm going to speculate that it will be like an upgraded Gravitar fight from CO. It's really the only analog I'm aware of. Gravitar is limited to 10 people but they queue in as two groups of 5. As you can expect, it has a level of organization like an HE. I have no reason to expect that Cryptic changed the UI to allow groups larger then 5. So 5 groups of 5 in an every group for themselves race for DPS seems the most likely.
He only mentionned loots are individual, nothing else. No rolls, click on collect and what drops is yours. Anything could happen, even one team of 25 people. Don't make him say what he didn't say.
iambecks1 only mentioned that the dev said the Tiamat fight resembled a heroic encounter.
The rest of his paragraph was preceded by the words "I'd GUESS".
In fairness, I think that is a pretty good guess considering their previous patterns of loot tables.
. No game so far uses such a mechanic, because it's bad.
Played a game that did this. You did start the raid together, but at some point there were multiple paths; which groups had to split up to kill particular "boss" mobs to open the gate to the next area. Worked fine. BUT
These were endgame raids meant for the top raiding guilds. So everyone was on the same voice comm, we all were geared properly for the content and had run many many runs of "dungeons", "raids", "pvp raids" together.
It can work.
Just completely depends on the game. IDK how itll work here, saving my reservations till after I do it.
Which I am kind of excited for the raid. Should be a very interesting, maybe frustrating, group dynamic.
EDIT: if there is a bug or anyway that leaders/people will be able to kick after loot drops. I will call the raid a fail. If I see 23 people get kicked, I will uninstall. nvm read that individual loot, good.
My own idea about this dungeon. So far we know that it's a 25 Person Dungeon Raid. But we won't travel in one huge group of 25 but in 5 separate groups with 5 people in each group. Tiamat has a 5-headed dragon so each group will fight with one head.
Now for me there are 2 options - there are 5 gates for 5 parties before the last boss and we fight with her dragon at the same time on 5 platforms. Thus the first party reaching the gate needs to wait for other parties to do so.
Or each party can go in and start a fight and then next parties have separate counters for entering and still fight with one of his heads at the time.
It's also possible that each head has own abilities copied from already existing dragons in Neverdeath, Ebons, Icespire, Rothe and Whispering (5 dragons).
Dragon will turn when he loses 1/5 of his HP and party needs to fight with another head till 2/5 and so on. In that case each party has to adjust tactics to the next head and all parties have a chance to fight with each head.
Or in the end platforms merge and whole 25-person raid fights together in the last phase.
Somehow I don't see 25 people near one chest so there will be 5 chests for 5 groups of 5 people.
Of course it's just my own idea how it could look like
They managed something like this for FF14: ARR with the Crystal Tower raid. Three groups of 5 taking on trash together, boss mechanics allowed groups to take on portions of a boss or fill in for another duty. One encounter called for a tank on a Behemoth, another picking up the giant add that would've cleaved the dps/heals to pieces and the other off tanks on button duty keeping the environment free from being electrically charged. The loot at the end of each boss was specific to your group, where there would be 1-2 pieces per chest and each section had at least 3 bosses.
Another encounter sometimes did lead to the other groups waiting on one or more of the groups to play catch up and when that happens everyone had to wait for them to kill the boss or wipe and try again. I'm sure if the encounter area was of decent size the 5-man groups the lag would be manageable for most players.
Pretty cool idea, tho still not quite at the same level as done in other MMOs like WoW but definitely would be great to see more like this compared the standard 5 person dungeons, even tho the last one was quite nice
What I don't want to see this 25 person raid/fight become is where just a few over-geared players can defeat it and not care for the rest of the not so well geared people who are trying to help. This should be a fight where if people don't work together like said in the description then the death of too many people would make the fight too difficult no matter how well geared you are. This might encourage people to play better instead of just caring about how much dmg they can do I expect to do something like this it would have to rely on better game mechanics, so make it for example that the enemies in the raid or at least just the boss would require a tank to survive it's attacks and not just be simple red attacks that can be dodged by anyone.
0
Options
tonyvincentMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 123Arc User
edited October 2014
I, too, do want the 25 man raid to be difficult. But, unless some kind of mechanic, such as in MC and VT, gets implemented, then I am afraid that the raid will be too easy for over-geared people. When it comes to the issue of some people running ahead fromt he rest of the under-geared people, then the devs could implement doors. Idk if I like that though.
The difference between lvl60 with legendaries and lvl60 8kGS is very big atm. Also, you just need a GS of 10 000 to continue on the Rise of Tiamat campaign. And in addition, the Temple of Tiamat is one of the big things to look forward to in the next module. I don't think developers would make content that most of the lvl60 with 10kGS could complete, for obvious reasons. I remember when my DC with 8kGS found Epic Pirate King to be very difficult, and that is just 2k below 10k.
So assuming that the raid won't be too difficult, I would wish for a qeue system where you could enter with lesser people. But that's my opinion. I don't want the rewards all for myself necessarily, but I want a challenge.
Actually, I do not have a prob w/the min gs. I mean this is no diff from Midnight and co taking on Myrkul where it took an actual martyr in the end to do a god in. If this was a fight against an avatar, imagine how things should be against the real deal. imo my only worry is a mass server lag due to a 25 man team. Unless we have a multi-instance raid where we have 5 teams of 5 accomplishing diff stages, I'm pretty sure the world wide web will be screwed.
P.S: Funnily enough, I can easily imagine an A-team emerging unscathed against every Heroic Encounter (that is if we're going by the 6-10 rule).
What I don't want to see this 25 person raid/fight become is where just a few over-geared players can defeat it and not care for the rest of the not so well geared people who are trying to help. This should be a fight where if people don't work together like said in the description then the death of too many people would make the fight too difficult no matter how well geared you are. This might encourage people to play better instead of just caring about how much dmg they can do I expect to do something like this it would have to rely on better game mechanics, so make it for example that the enemies in the raid or at least just the boss would require a tank to survive it's attacks and not just be simple red attacks that can be dodged by anyone.
I would love the new 25-man raid to be something like that as well. I think that would be a welcome challenge. I hope it isn't yet another casual heroic encounter with awful RNG-gated loot.
When I first saw this post I actually got really excited. Just thinking about 25 guys and gals from our guild going in to fight a PVE boss. Structuring some guild events much like GG could be about this.
Then I started thinking more and more about it and im starting to lose interest. Imagine 3 GFs using KV and lagging the fight worse than Epic HEs in IWD....
I would almost bet, this wont be a "CN" equivalent in "Epicness" but will probably echo the completely lack luster feel of the current HEs, with maybe some slight variation of "trash mobs" thrown in some way shape or form...
Will it take skill to complete? Again, it will probably echo similar to the current dragons in the zones.
If they want to make this good, its needs to require alot of skill and coordination. It should be VERY tough to do, and should be the CAPSTONE to a long/hard/tedious dungeon somehow... But will that work with a 25 man dungeon? Probably not.
It still BLOWS MY MIND that the DEVs dont just listen to feedback from players. WHY jump to 25 man raids and not just give us something like a 10 man fight.
Instead of pushing new and new content on players that makes old gear obsolete and just adds frustration because everything is just not polished and there is NO motivation... Why not take a little more time, read feedback and give us QUALITY content.
I am holding out for my final judgement on this "raid" but am VERY skeptical due to the lack of response we get from the DEVs about future content.
0
Options
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
I like the game mechanic, but I think it is not really suited for 25man raids, because it is a bit too simplistic. In comparison with the most successfull mmo there is simply too few diversity and not much buff management IMO. The aggro management is a mess... just look at the black ice beholder or other world bosses where 90% of all tanks can not even tank drakes properly (or hold aggro).
There is no indication of what passives people are currently using (for example in cases that other GFs shouldnt use a thread generating passive) and a raid interface is a must-have for serious raids anyways. Then the entire world is IMO not large enough... epic encounters require IMO an epic world around to explore with an epic story. Instead all we do is to sit in PE or CK on top of each other. For all who understand what I mean: Its like we all sit in orgrimmar looking for an ICC raid without having set foot into northrend in our entire lives. IMO this game needs alot more zones to explore first, and a lower rate in leveling as compensation.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I like the game mechanic, but I think it is not really suited for 25man raids, because it is a bit too simplistic. In comparison with the most successfull mmo there is simply too few diversity and not much buff management IMO. The aggro management is a mess... just look at the black ice beholder or other world bosses where 90% of all tanks can not even tank drakes properly (or hold aggro).
There is no indication of what passives people are currently using (for example in cases that other GFs shouldnt use a thread generating passive) and a raid interface is a must-have for serious raids anyways. Then the entire world is IMO not large enough... epic encounters require IMO an epic world around to explore with an epic story. Instead all we do is to sit in PE or CK on top of each other. For all who understand what I mean: Its like we all sit in orgrimmar looking for an ICC raid without having set foot into northrend in our entire lives. IMO this game needs alot more zones to explore first, and a lower rate in leveling as compensation.
Yeah True words. Game needs better, more sophisticated mechanics and a Raid UI/management is needed.
But it's a start. And we need to see what they understand by "raid".
Yeah True words. Game needs better, more sophisticated mechanics and a Raid UI/management is needed.
But it's a start. And we need to see what they understand by "raid".
Agree with the above as well. I just cant get over how EASY it is and yet they continue to fail to listen.
If they want an EZmode win, create a PVE and PVP Contest using Foundry.
Top 2 popular maps for both PVE and PVP will go live in the next module. Design a "campaign" around running dungeons (the two new ones). Player created content is the foundation, then the DEVs just need to focus on balance.
Or another option:
take the existing T1s, turn them into 10 man raids as a "Tier 3". Give Lord Neverember a daily quest allowing you to run ONE dungeon that day (on a schedule like mod 2) and then DONE.
The story/lore/base content is ALREADY there, just gut the dungeons of monsters and make UNIQUE encounters inside the dungeon with monsters rather than just a pure MOB spam. Things LIKE:
Control Immune mobs
Physical Damage Immune mobs
Elemental Damage immune mobs
Mobs that heal/resurrect other mobs if left untouched.
"Tank" Type mobs that "Knights Challenge" you (copy of IWD) with IMMENSE HP so they MUSt be "tanked"
If they want an EZmode win, create a PVE and PVP Contest using Foundry.
Top 2 popular maps for both PVE and PVP will go live in the next module. Design a "campaign" around running dungeons (the two new ones). Player created content is the foundation, then the DEVs just need to focus on balance.
Been proposing this since M3. Let players create content then fix and balance it.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Pretty cool idea, tho still not quite at the same level as done in other MMOs like WoW but definitely would be great to see more like this compared the standard 5 person dungeons, even tho the last one was quite nice
What I don't want to see this 25 person raid/fight become is where just a few over-geared players can defeat it and not care for the rest of the not so well geared people who are trying to help. This should be a fight where if people don't work together like said in the description then the death of too many people would make the fight too difficult no matter how well geared you are. This might encourage people to play better instead of just caring about how much dmg they can do I expect to do something like this it would have to rely on better game mechanics, so make it for example that the enemies in the raid or at least just the boss would require a tank to survive it's attacks and not just be simple red attacks that can be dodged by anyone.
5 heads = five tanks. Why not, after all? They could also work on telegraphs, make them more interesting. Less static, more dynamic, more varied. Some games do incredible stuff with that. We can't talk about other games, too bad, but the gameplay could be a lot more dynamic if telegraphs were worked on a bit more.
5 heads = five tanks. Why not, after all? They could also work on telegraphs, make them more interesting. Less static, more dynamic, more varied. Some games do incredible stuff with that. We can't talk about other games, too bad, but the gameplay could be a lot more dynamic if telegraphs were worked on a bit more.
Yep that would work, or at least require certain heads to require tanking so if a tank failed then the rest of the group/raid would likely die.
Could also implement things like where certain red attacks need to have the damage shared or it will kill people, however that is borrowing from another game
Other more challenging game mechanics could require certain enemies to join in on the fight that are controllable but have too much health/defense to kill effectively, or just tough control immune enemies that squish anything other than a tank.
They could even make DC buffs/protection more important by requiring people to be protected by things like temporary hp or dmg reduction from Astral Shield (altho these spells will change in mod 5).
I like the game mechanic, but I think it is not really suited for 25man raids, because it is a bit too simplistic. In comparison with the most successfull mmo there is simply too few diversity and not much buff management IMO. The aggro management is a mess... just look at the black ice beholder or other world bosses where 90% of all tanks can not even tank drakes properly (or hold aggro).
Tanks/GFs acting this way is not down to the class but the people playing them sadly. I too see far too many GF players circling around dragons try to dodge it's attacks for some reason and having no clue that they r making it harder for rest of people by making them constantly move or get hit by tail swipes and breath attacks. Would be nice if Tiamat had mechanics that if the head they were fighting isnt positioned properly cos the tank is only thinking about himself then he/she would wipe the rest of the group...harsh but we want it to be a challenge eh
Comments
We mostly got dailies every mod.
That is what I'm scared of.
...
Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
You start killing dragons at lvl 30 with green trash, so who cares if a goddess gets into the mix at lvl 60? This is not D&D, it just carrys the trademark for licence-costs.
I would recommend you a different non-online game if you are one for the lore. Neverwinter is a lot more fun if you do not take it as a serious D&D-game.
I'm not, but when it comes to games, it's more rewarding to have challenging end bosses than an easy yawn fest that just leaves you disappointed. Basically by allowing 10k gs people to join, if they can actually complete it they can be satisfied with beating the final content without putting barely any work in while those that did invest in their toon just wasted their time. There's no excitement in a stompfest and clearly the difference between 10 and 20k gs is major. Like I said before, is lostmauth really a more worthy enemy than tiamat? It's about making the gameplay good, rewarding and memorable.
I found it much less fun when they decided to bind the rewards, lower the drop rates (both wasting my time), inflate the gear without content appropriately scaled and be slow at fixing issues while releasing new ones.
I understand this, but i was talking about the lore-point you brought up.
13-15k GS to join
And then is should still bust your b*lls, maybe resulting in a temporary slight tick in your eye and chewed nails... It would be a pleasant change.
Plausible yes. My thoughts > Yes you will progress down different paths but you will all end up in the same room. Im not versed AT ALL on the lore of DnD so I may be speaking <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> right now but the way i envisioned this is that the last boss is a Multi Stage boss (if that makes sense). Basically it will be as you said you all fight a different head OR you all fight the dragons from the the previous campaign ie the previous five dragons. BUT You kill them.... cue cutscene.... You see valindra or whoever come in and perform some ritual which you played a part in by killing the five dragons at the same time. You enabled her to summon Tiamat from their five dead bodies. Basically a fusion type thing. Then bam all teams meet up and beat the beejeezus out of her and send her back to the hell she came from
Zelfiron: Control Wizard
Siana: Trickster Rogue
Andromeda: Devoted Cleric
Death Strike: Guardian Fighter
Blind Fury: Great Weapon Fighter
Phantom Reaper: Hunter Ranger (To be Changed to Huntress when I figure out how to)
Helena: Oathbound Paladin
Bad Juju: Scourge Warlock
Probably not. I don't know why people keep talking about this. No game so far uses such a mechanic, because it's bad. The 5th team is late? Well too bad, you have to wait for the suckers for 20 mins. This wouldn't work. So I'm assuming it's going to be one group of 25 people; the only surprise will be 5 teams of 5 to keep buffs under control or one team of 25, which would require some UI adjustments but would make the run much more interesting for support chars provided multiple copies of the same spells/buffs can't stack. We'd have Mr Knight's valor, Mr aggro, Mr healbot, Mr buffbot, etc. Yes a 25 men team would add a lot of cool stuff to the gameplay IMO but given what gauntlgrym is I doubt it's going to be the solution the devs used. That would require a lot of adjustments to spells and class mechanics unless stuff hits so hard you'd need let's sayn multiple SWs/DCs to keep 25 people alive. We'll see.
IMO FPS drops is a very poor excuse some people seem to use because they don't want the gameplay to be expanded, if there are issues they will be fixed because the forums will be a complete mess and the devs will have to do something anyway.
Graaxl3 talking about the new raid-
He only mentionned loots are individual, nothing else. No rolls, click on collect and what drops is yours. Anything could happen, even one team of 25 people. Don't make him say what he didn't say.
iambecks1 only mentioned that the dev said the Tiamat fight resembled a heroic encounter.
The rest of his paragraph was preceded by the words "I'd GUESS".
In fairness, I think that is a pretty good guess considering their previous patterns of loot tables.
Played a game that did this. You did start the raid together, but at some point there were multiple paths; which groups had to split up to kill particular "boss" mobs to open the gate to the next area. Worked fine. BUT
These were endgame raids meant for the top raiding guilds. So everyone was on the same voice comm, we all were geared properly for the content and had run many many runs of "dungeons", "raids", "pvp raids" together.
It can work.
Just completely depends on the game. IDK how itll work here, saving my reservations till after I do it.
Which I am kind of excited for the raid. Should be a very interesting, maybe frustrating, group dynamic.
EDIT: if there is a bug or anyway that leaders/people will be able to kick after loot drops. I will call the raid a fail. If I see 23 people get kicked, I will uninstall. nvm read that individual loot, good.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
They managed something like this for FF14: ARR with the Crystal Tower raid. Three groups of 5 taking on trash together, boss mechanics allowed groups to take on portions of a boss or fill in for another duty. One encounter called for a tank on a Behemoth, another picking up the giant add that would've cleaved the dps/heals to pieces and the other off tanks on button duty keeping the environment free from being electrically charged. The loot at the end of each boss was specific to your group, where there would be 1-2 pieces per chest and each section had at least 3 bosses.
Another encounter sometimes did lead to the other groups waiting on one or more of the groups to play catch up and when that happens everyone had to wait for them to kill the boss or wipe and try again. I'm sure if the encounter area was of decent size the 5-man groups the lag would be manageable for most players.
What I don't want to see this 25 person raid/fight become is where just a few over-geared players can defeat it and not care for the rest of the not so well geared people who are trying to help. This should be a fight where if people don't work together like said in the description then the death of too many people would make the fight too difficult no matter how well geared you are. This might encourage people to play better instead of just caring about how much dmg they can do
The difference between lvl60 with legendaries and lvl60 8kGS is very big atm. Also, you just need a GS of 10 000 to continue on the Rise of Tiamat campaign. And in addition, the Temple of Tiamat is one of the big things to look forward to in the next module. I don't think developers would make content that most of the lvl60 with 10kGS could complete, for obvious reasons. I remember when my DC with 8kGS found Epic Pirate King to be very difficult, and that is just 2k below 10k.
So assuming that the raid won't be too difficult, I would wish for a qeue system where you could enter with lesser people. But that's my opinion. I don't want the rewards all for myself necessarily, but I want a challenge.
Actually, I do not have a prob w/the min gs. I mean this is no diff from Midnight and co taking on Myrkul where it took an actual martyr in the end to do a god in. If this was a fight against an avatar, imagine how things should be against the real deal. imo my only worry is a mass server lag due to a 25 man team. Unless we have a multi-instance raid where we have 5 teams of 5 accomplishing diff stages, I'm pretty sure the world wide web will be screwed.
P.S: Funnily enough, I can easily imagine an A-team emerging unscathed against every Heroic Encounter (that is if we're going by the 6-10 rule).
I would love the new 25-man raid to be something like that as well. I think that would be a welcome challenge. I hope it isn't yet another casual heroic encounter with awful RNG-gated loot.
Then I started thinking more and more about it and im starting to lose interest. Imagine 3 GFs using KV and lagging the fight worse than Epic HEs in IWD....
I would almost bet, this wont be a "CN" equivalent in "Epicness" but will probably echo the completely lack luster feel of the current HEs, with maybe some slight variation of "trash mobs" thrown in some way shape or form...
Will it take skill to complete? Again, it will probably echo similar to the current dragons in the zones.
If they want to make this good, its needs to require alot of skill and coordination. It should be VERY tough to do, and should be the CAPSTONE to a long/hard/tedious dungeon somehow... But will that work with a 25 man dungeon? Probably not.
It still BLOWS MY MIND that the DEVs dont just listen to feedback from players. WHY jump to 25 man raids and not just give us something like a 10 man fight.
Instead of pushing new and new content on players that makes old gear obsolete and just adds frustration because everything is just not polished and there is NO motivation... Why not take a little more time, read feedback and give us QUALITY content.
I am holding out for my final judgement on this "raid" but am VERY skeptical due to the lack of response we get from the DEVs about future content.
There is no indication of what passives people are currently using (for example in cases that other GFs shouldnt use a thread generating passive) and a raid interface is a must-have for serious raids anyways. Then the entire world is IMO not large enough... epic encounters require IMO an epic world around to explore with an epic story. Instead all we do is to sit in PE or CK on top of each other. For all who understand what I mean: Its like we all sit in orgrimmar looking for an ICC raid without having set foot into northrend in our entire lives. IMO this game needs alot more zones to explore first, and a lower rate in leveling as compensation.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Yeah
But it's a start. And we need to see what they understand by "raid".
Agree with the above as well. I just cant get over how EASY it is and yet they continue to fail to listen.
If they want an EZmode win, create a PVE and PVP Contest using Foundry.
Top 2 popular maps for both PVE and PVP will go live in the next module. Design a "campaign" around running dungeons (the two new ones). Player created content is the foundation, then the DEVs just need to focus on balance.
Or another option:
take the existing T1s, turn them into 10 man raids as a "Tier 3". Give Lord Neverember a daily quest allowing you to run ONE dungeon that day (on a schedule like mod 2) and then DONE.
The story/lore/base content is ALREADY there, just gut the dungeons of monsters and make UNIQUE encounters inside the dungeon with monsters rather than just a pure MOB spam. Things LIKE:
Control Immune mobs
Physical Damage Immune mobs
Elemental Damage immune mobs
Mobs that heal/resurrect other mobs if left untouched.
"Tank" Type mobs that "Knights Challenge" you (copy of IWD) with IMMENSE HP so they MUSt be "tanked"
ETC you get the drift.
Its SO easy........ UGh!
Been proposing this since M3. Let players create content then fix and balance it.
5 heads = five tanks. Why not, after all? They could also work on telegraphs, make them more interesting. Less static, more dynamic, more varied. Some games do incredible stuff with that. We can't talk about other games, too bad, but the gameplay could be a lot more dynamic if telegraphs were worked on a bit more.
Yep that would work, or at least require certain heads to require tanking so if a tank failed then the rest of the group/raid would likely die.
Could also implement things like where certain red attacks need to have the damage shared or it will kill people, however that is borrowing from another game
Other more challenging game mechanics could require certain enemies to join in on the fight that are controllable but have too much health/defense to kill effectively, or just tough control immune enemies that squish anything other than a tank.
They could even make DC buffs/protection more important by requiring people to be protected by things like temporary hp or dmg reduction from Astral Shield (altho these spells will change in mod 5).
Tanks/GFs acting this way is not down to the class but the people playing them sadly. I too see far too many GF players circling around dragons try to dodge it's attacks for some reason and having no clue that they r making it harder for rest of people by making them constantly move or get hit by tail swipes and breath attacks. Would be nice if Tiamat had mechanics that if the head they were fighting isnt positioned properly cos the tank is only thinking about himself then he/she would wipe the rest of the group...harsh but we want it to be a challenge eh