Guys there's no need to fight each other for this. The results of the poll are clear. Now let's see what the devs give us. I bet on more artifact item gear because it's a cheap way to keep us busy instead of making new, interesting, challenging and engaging content the game desperately needs.
I like the Legendary Stuff and would not mind a full set of armor and trinkets etc...But the grinding, refining the TIME consuming, and ALL the AD that goes to does is just a little too much for even the hardcore players and the results are very questionable compare with the newer stuff that comes out in every Module... They need to either fix this ASAP! OR just make this legendary stuff so powerful with such amazing set bonuses and stats PvE/PvP wise that it literally would be and ENDGAME MAX Gear where you only worry about what stats or bonuses would you like...and be worth such an investment...or just be growth gear it levels with EXP... as you use them... or all of the above...
POINT is its an awesome idea BUT it need to be revise again... they way the Refinement goes its just too much...WAAAYYY tooo much...for veteran players...or omg toooo overwhelming for new players, they will just quit...this is not work or a shore, this is a game to have fun...PLEASE make it work or your just killing the experience!
The gap between players is a good thing. It means you always have something to work towards to progress your character no matter how long you've played. You'll probably never max it all out. Therefore I say yes, let them add more artifact style equipment. Doesn't mean I'll get it or if I do, it doesn't mean I'll max it, but at least its there and I can work towards it.
People need to stop being so elitist and REQUIRING these pieces for people to join a pug of epic karru.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
... Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
The gap between players is a good thing. It means you always have something to work towards to progress your character no matter how long you've played. You'll probably never max it all out. Therefore I say yes, let them add more artifact style equipment. Doesn't mean I'll get it or if I do, it doesn't mean I'll max it, but at least its there and I can work towards it.
People need to stop being so elitist and REQUIRING these pieces for people to join a pug of epic karru.
Agreed! Love the way you just mention it... its a really good way to put it and see it now that you said it like that.
I would say that it'd be nice to eventually get some legendary items to drop that don't need refining.
yea 0.1% chance from lockbox and 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% from a heroic encounter you spend 15 min waiting on and is done in about 5sec with 124151532 man zerg
yea 0.1% chance from lockbox and 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% from a heroic encounter you spend 15 min waiting on and is done in about 5sec with 124151532 man zerg
The current belt drop rates would probably be more justifiable than the actual belts considering legendary are supposed to be very rare and the belts need a significant investment to reach that rank so most of the work should come from the refining itself in that case rather than rely on almost non existent drop rates.
Concerning 'elitism'. Most lfm posts for CN, Epic LOL/SOT look for 15k+, thats easy to reach, if you spend some time in the game. I never look for 17+, 18+ or even 20K+ GS groups, even, when my toon has that GS.
I qued on a fresh 12kish toon for FH, was 2nd or 3rd on dmg dealt, used gr. plf. to boost group DPS and got kicked by some 14kish players, I would assume for low GS, THATS 'elitism'. I have seen more attitude by 14k players towards my 12k toon in one week, than by 18k+ players towards 14k+ in more than a year.
You will have a more noticable difference in PVP, but the thing is, a BIS team crushes 99% of the teams ELO dishes to them now. With more leg. equip, they will just kill them faster. The problem is not the gear, but ELO.
In PvE you dont need leg equip, to clear any dungeon atm. As long as it is nice to have and not mandatory I could not care less for more leg. equip. The only thing bothering me is, when it is gated by money spend or crazy RNG and not by skill or effort.
They shouldn't start this "artifact equipment" in the first place.
But since they already did I'll be ready for off-hands and necklaces. I doubt they'll make artifact armor sets because that makes no sense.
I don't know about you but, I kinda like the idea of artifact armor, equipment, etc...gear, plus this IS a D&D game...and such Legendary equipment exist in the pen and paper version of the game... I think it should be more of a choice for players you either work the classic of getting gear or just get the artifacts that will grow with you and never be outdated...
But I guess I understand some of the complain, as some people just want to have the best gear as fast as possible with little to no investment to it...
I don't know about you but, I kinda like the idea of artifact armor, equipment, etc...gear, plus this IS a D&D game...and such Legendary equipment exist in the pen and paper version of the game... I think it should be more of a choice for players you either work the classic of getting gear or just get the artifacts that will grow with you and never be outdated...
But I guess I understand some of the complain, as some people just want to have the best gear as fast as possible with little to no investment to it...
No, we just don't want every dam BIS equipment slot to be a freakin' artifact that costs 5m-10m RP each to refine... You seem to have no idea how many players this would drive away, outright, I do...
But I guess I understand some of the complain, as some people just want to have the best gear as fast as possible with little to no investment to it...
I see people who are willing and/or enjoy grinding dismissing everyone else to purely wanting instant gratification.
The issue I have has very little to do with wanting Legendary status on the fly. I'm spending 1.5hr per day doing the dragon dailies in every zone to hopefully eventually unlock the last 2 boons.
Some one said a casual player plays 1.5-2hrs a day. That leaves many with very little time to enjoy playing the game with others, much less worry about leveling legendary artifacts/gear.
Not too long ago, we started getting new weapon sets with bonuses that became short lived and superseded now. What's going to happen next? You finally get a full set of black ice equipment only to be superseded next module?
If there is going to be a changeover of gear, do it in one swift stroke. Don't waste people's time to drive profit by creating demand and then replacing them in the next two months, when content hasn't change enough to warrant the gear upgrades.
It can't be due to instant gratification that we don't want the changeover. Casuals are willing to bid their time with gear due to their limited amount of play time, but even as Legendary gear are introduced, they are somehow gated behind RNG such that working towards Legendaries from 1.5hrs of play has to first overcome 100hrs of grind (if lucky) to overcome RNG.
On top of dailies to unlock zones/skirmishes/dungeons, grinds on crafting and RNG gating. It is becoming such that there is no meaningful time frame to become 'average', when this average keeps rising despite the content difficulty has remained slow growing.
I play alone mostly. Not by choice. Every friend I have introduced to NW played, reached level cap, went on a few dungeon runs with me and then left. They had no compelling reason to grind multiple campaigns and gear for hours beyond what's available to them each day in order to unlock new but brief content and simply moved on to better games.
And therein lies another issues, the hardcore players that quickly obtained the new legendaries, unlocked the short new content and even now are on the forums proclaiming how lacklustre and easy they are.
So what then becomes of the point of grinding for casuals when they come and read such feedback? To spend time that they don't have to achieve a status that belittles inconsequential new content?
Once they figure this out and realize the gear replacement is driven more by profit than meaningful progression. Casual players will turn away from this game.
Offhand maybe, but much more will make this game a bit tedious and not very alt friendly than it used to be, already i have buried my alts because of the dragon grinding. more artifacts will make it more so...
But we need tougher content to use it in (PvE wise). As for PvP, well the more artifacts you introduce and the bigger joke PvP becomes.
But I guess I understand some of the complain, as some people just want to have the best gear as fast as possible with little to no investment to it...
Goal for 2015: make the portrait of my orb become orange in Neverwinter.
Sure, if it drops, rarely, from the end boss in some amazingly hard raid that only 1% of players can beat. You have my vote for that, because I know I can and will beat that.
Refined gear that any dude can put together without any skill necessary by buying it off the AH and the buying the RP from AH?
Well, NO.
This is a perversion of what an MMO progression should be like IMO.
Reward dedication&skill with legendaries, great.
Reward legendaries to anybody with enough AD, hell no.
I play alone mostly. Not by choice. Every friend I have introduced to NW played, reached level cap, went on a few dungeon runs with me and then left. They had no compelling reason to grind multiple campaigns and gear for hours beyond what's available to them each day in order to unlock new but brief content and simply moved on to better games.
This is an incredibly important point. You can talk friends into trying NW because it's shiny- but then they dip a toe in the waters, see the incredibly multilayered grind required and wince. Even those with whom you have played other MMOs in a "hardcore" mode see the amount of catching up and grinding, how after a year of busywork, they might have some form of equality- they shrug and play something else. They haven't invested much time or money, have nothing to lose, and no reason to put up with that.
Sadly, the current model, which is to try to appeal to casuals with a low skill ceiling, close the deal on initial Real Money purchases, and let them churn back out of the game doesn't really sit will with high quality standards and long term appeal. The artifact stuff is an attempt to marry progression for longer term players with the ability to continue to milk them, without the expense of creating much interesting or properly-tested content. It's a clever gambit, but if taken too far, it could backfire.
A lot of longterm players are somewhat unhappy, and only stay through a combination of lack of viable alternative and the "sunk cost fallacy", which is particularly true in games with such prominent cash shops. It's true that players can be pushed quite a long way if you do it slowly- an exercise in frog boiling, if you will. However, everyone has a breaking point.
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scoutmasterjMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 101Arc User
edited October 2014
I'm for more legendary gear. Just make the refining process easier. It doesn't have to be cheaper, just easier. let me refine 5 stack's of 99 at a time. Stacks of pearls aren't that hard to come by, same thing with peridots. With leadership, I can buy a stack of peridots almost every other day.
I would be for this IF the legendary equipment
1. Was BoE
2. Had drop rates like T2 gear (not like black ice arms or artifacts belts drops!!!)
3. Did NOT need to be refined, as in they came in legendary form
But seeing how there is a 0.001% chance of that happening, I would NOT want any more legendary items.
What this game needs is less skirmish, gear and RNG stuff and some more genuine Quest content for Ultra-Epic level players. Stuff that a 15k party just could never complete, with gear drops and chests like in level 60 epic dungeons, but which require a much higher GS plus at least 70 Power Points spent. Either that, or increase character level limit to 100 or something.
But this endless grind for gear is not much of a game. It is not really "content", it's just Power; with nothing to use it against except other players in PvP. But where is the fun in a 21k Party with five Legendaries going up against a 14k Party with just normal Epics?
Where are the latest Ultra-Epic Villains, Quests and dungeons?
But now we have a reworking of TR and DC, where many Paragon feats work off weapon damage, so to get the best effect you need the latest Artifact Gear. I am sure the same will happen with the design of the other classes.
It depends mostly on how hard pve will be. If they make it so you don't need artifact gear to complete pve content like where we are now I don't see a problem. PVP-wise, sure, it makes a gigantic gap between the have's and the have-not's, but actually it really makes no difference because nobody really pvp for fun. It won't make any difference to the newbies or poor pugs whether they face 20k or 25k gs teams. They just stand there for a few minutes to get the easy rough AD rewards like what they are doing now.
Not true at all. I always enjoy a good, close, well balanced match. being Perma-Stunned and Frozen by 21k teams with five Legendaries is what ticks me off.
And although my first ever level 10 character did PvP only for the Astral Diamonds from Rhix, my twelve level 60s, four of which are DCs, do PvP for the Glory and Seals for the gear and because it CAN be a lot of fun. If you are well-speced and geared for PvP, you can stomp all over PvE. THAT is one of the problems of the later stages of the game. All the Gear Grinds only serve to create a larger imbalance in PvP and there is no matching PvE content with decent rewards that do not have a ludicrously impenetrable RNG barrier. And I do not have a single Icewind Dale boon yet.
This thread is the perfect example of whats going on with Cryptic/PW.
I mean look at this poll 70% of players said no to more grind and artifacts yet they put them in anyway (with even more artifacts and grind than mod 4 by the looks of the preview server) and no one seem to get why they would do that.
Flat out Cryptic wants free to play players to quit, if your not giving them money your costing them money.
They want you to look at that grind and say "i'd rather pay" and if you don't want to pay they give 0 Fred Fuchs if you quit. I've been reading these forums and no one noticed (or the mods have removed any posts from people who did notice), that they came out with the absolute most annoying and un-fun mod at the exact same time they added pay to complete mods into the game. Making ToD as obnoxious as possible was the point. They want people to pay to unlock all this stuff.
I dunno what happened at Cryptic but at some point this year they gave up trying to be fair and equitable and just starting running their games only for the whales. And it's not just this game, STO which was one of the most fair f2p games has also become an ocean only for whales. They added a crafting system into that game that takes two years of dailies to complete or literally hundreds (thousands?) of dollars to complete. Plus the next expansion basically requires to you have completed crafting to upgrade your items if you want to continue playing. And on top of all that the ships you bought prior to the next expansion will become obsolete if you don't pay money for upgrade tokens.
From Cryptics/PW point of view it's clear they would be happy even if their games only had one player as long as that one player was willing to pay enough money to pay their bills with healthy profit for themselves.
I voted no, but even if we literally had 80-90% of the games population voting no, we will still see more legendries. The simple fact is that they generate a ton of revenue for cryptic and they probably already have done most of the work getting them ready as it is. Get used to not being heard lol
Comments
Everything as Legendaries is going to be a huge waste of players' time.
I would say nobody has that much spare time to level them all, but then there are already so many with Legendary artifacts, weapons and belts...
Thanks to double RP weekend, without double RP i would never have gotten legendary artifacts.
POINT is its an awesome idea BUT it need to be revise again... they way the Refinement goes its just too much...WAAAYYY tooo much...for veteran players...or omg toooo overwhelming for new players, they will just quit...this is not work or a shore, this is a game to have fun...PLEASE make it work or your just killing the experience!
We believe in you!
People need to stop being so elitist and REQUIRING these pieces for people to join a pug of epic karru.
...
Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
Agreed! Love the way you just mention it... its a really good way to put it and see it now that you said it like that.
Why not just call this refining imaginary pixels online?
yea 0.1% chance from lockbox and 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% from a heroic encounter you spend 15 min waiting on and is done in about 5sec with 124151532 man zerg
The current belt drop rates would probably be more justifiable than the actual belts considering legendary are supposed to be very rare and the belts need a significant investment to reach that rank so most of the work should come from the refining itself in that case rather than rely on almost non existent drop rates.
I qued on a fresh 12kish toon for FH, was 2nd or 3rd on dmg dealt, used gr. plf. to boost group DPS and got kicked by some 14kish players, I would assume for low GS, THATS 'elitism'. I have seen more attitude by 14k players towards my 12k toon in one week, than by 18k+ players towards 14k+ in more than a year.
You will have a more noticable difference in PVP, but the thing is, a BIS team crushes 99% of the teams ELO dishes to them now. With more leg. equip, they will just kill them faster. The problem is not the gear, but ELO.
In PvE you dont need leg equip, to clear any dungeon atm. As long as it is nice to have and not mandatory I could not care less for more leg. equip. The only thing bothering me is, when it is gated by money spend or crazy RNG and not by skill or effort.
But since they already did I'll be ready for off-hands and necklaces. I doubt they'll make artifact armor sets because that makes no sense.
I don't know about you but, I kinda like the idea of artifact armor, equipment, etc...gear, plus this IS a D&D game...and such Legendary equipment exist in the pen and paper version of the game... I think it should be more of a choice for players you either work the classic of getting gear or just get the artifacts that will grow with you and never be outdated...
But I guess I understand some of the complain, as some people just want to have the best gear as fast as possible with little to no investment to it...
No, we just don't want every dam BIS equipment slot to be a freakin' artifact that costs 5m-10m RP each to refine... You seem to have no idea how many players this would drive away, outright, I do...
The issue I have has very little to do with wanting Legendary status on the fly. I'm spending 1.5hr per day doing the dragon dailies in every zone to hopefully eventually unlock the last 2 boons.
Some one said a casual player plays 1.5-2hrs a day. That leaves many with very little time to enjoy playing the game with others, much less worry about leveling legendary artifacts/gear.
Not too long ago, we started getting new weapon sets with bonuses that became short lived and superseded now. What's going to happen next? You finally get a full set of black ice equipment only to be superseded next module?
If there is going to be a changeover of gear, do it in one swift stroke. Don't waste people's time to drive profit by creating demand and then replacing them in the next two months, when content hasn't change enough to warrant the gear upgrades.
It can't be due to instant gratification that we don't want the changeover. Casuals are willing to bid their time with gear due to their limited amount of play time, but even as Legendary gear are introduced, they are somehow gated behind RNG such that working towards Legendaries from 1.5hrs of play has to first overcome 100hrs of grind (if lucky) to overcome RNG.
On top of dailies to unlock zones/skirmishes/dungeons, grinds on crafting and RNG gating. It is becoming such that there is no meaningful time frame to become 'average', when this average keeps rising despite the content difficulty has remained slow growing.
I play alone mostly. Not by choice. Every friend I have introduced to NW played, reached level cap, went on a few dungeon runs with me and then left. They had no compelling reason to grind multiple campaigns and gear for hours beyond what's available to them each day in order to unlock new but brief content and simply moved on to better games.
And therein lies another issues, the hardcore players that quickly obtained the new legendaries, unlocked the short new content and even now are on the forums proclaiming how lacklustre and easy they are.
So what then becomes of the point of grinding for casuals when they come and read such feedback? To spend time that they don't have to achieve a status that belittles inconsequential new content?
Once they figure this out and realize the gear replacement is driven more by profit than meaningful progression. Casual players will turn away from this game.
But we need tougher content to use it in (PvE wise). As for PvP, well the more artifacts you introduce and the bigger joke PvP becomes.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Goal for 2015: make the portrait of my orb become orange in Neverwinter.
Sure, if it drops, rarely, from the end boss in some amazingly hard raid that only 1% of players can beat. You have my vote for that, because I know I can and will beat that.
Refined gear that any dude can put together without any skill necessary by buying it off the AH and the buying the RP from AH?
Well, NO.
This is a perversion of what an MMO progression should be like IMO.
Reward dedication&skill with legendaries, great.
Reward legendaries to anybody with enough AD, hell no.
This is an incredibly important point. You can talk friends into trying NW because it's shiny- but then they dip a toe in the waters, see the incredibly multilayered grind required and wince. Even those with whom you have played other MMOs in a "hardcore" mode see the amount of catching up and grinding, how after a year of busywork, they might have some form of equality- they shrug and play something else. They haven't invested much time or money, have nothing to lose, and no reason to put up with that.
Sadly, the current model, which is to try to appeal to casuals with a low skill ceiling, close the deal on initial Real Money purchases, and let them churn back out of the game doesn't really sit will with high quality standards and long term appeal. The artifact stuff is an attempt to marry progression for longer term players with the ability to continue to milk them, without the expense of creating much interesting or properly-tested content. It's a clever gambit, but if taken too far, it could backfire.
A lot of longterm players are somewhat unhappy, and only stay through a combination of lack of viable alternative and the "sunk cost fallacy", which is particularly true in games with such prominent cash shops. It's true that players can be pushed quite a long way if you do it slowly- an exercise in frog boiling, if you will. However, everyone has a breaking point.
Looks like we can confirm that this is happening
1. Was BoE
2. Had drop rates like T2 gear (not like black ice arms or artifacts belts drops!!!)
3. Did NOT need to be refined, as in they came in legendary form
But seeing how there is a 0.001% chance of that happening, I would NOT want any more legendary items.
But this endless grind for gear is not much of a game. It is not really "content", it's just Power; with nothing to use it against except other players in PvP. But where is the fun in a 21k Party with five Legendaries going up against a 14k Party with just normal Epics?
Where are the latest Ultra-Epic Villains, Quests and dungeons?
But now we have a reworking of TR and DC, where many Paragon feats work off weapon damage, so to get the best effect you need the latest Artifact Gear. I am sure the same will happen with the design of the other classes.
~
Not true at all. I always enjoy a good, close, well balanced match. being Perma-Stunned and Frozen by 21k teams with five Legendaries is what ticks me off.
And although my first ever level 10 character did PvP only for the Astral Diamonds from Rhix, my twelve level 60s, four of which are DCs, do PvP for the Glory and Seals for the gear and because it CAN be a lot of fun. If you are well-speced and geared for PvP, you can stomp all over PvE. THAT is one of the problems of the later stages of the game. All the Gear Grinds only serve to create a larger imbalance in PvP and there is no matching PvE content with decent rewards that do not have a ludicrously impenetrable RNG barrier. And I do not have a single Icewind Dale boon yet.
I agree with everything else you said.
I mean look at this poll 70% of players said no to more grind and artifacts yet they put them in anyway (with even more artifacts and grind than mod 4 by the looks of the preview server) and no one seem to get why they would do that.
Flat out Cryptic wants free to play players to quit, if your not giving them money your costing them money.
They want you to look at that grind and say "i'd rather pay" and if you don't want to pay they give 0 Fred Fuchs if you quit. I've been reading these forums and no one noticed (or the mods have removed any posts from people who did notice), that they came out with the absolute most annoying and un-fun mod at the exact same time they added pay to complete mods into the game. Making ToD as obnoxious as possible was the point. They want people to pay to unlock all this stuff.
I dunno what happened at Cryptic but at some point this year they gave up trying to be fair and equitable and just starting running their games only for the whales. And it's not just this game, STO which was one of the most fair f2p games has also become an ocean only for whales. They added a crafting system into that game that takes two years of dailies to complete or literally hundreds (thousands?) of dollars to complete. Plus the next expansion basically requires to you have completed crafting to upgrade your items if you want to continue playing. And on top of all that the ships you bought prior to the next expansion will become obsolete if you don't pay money for upgrade tokens.
From Cryptics/PW point of view it's clear they would be happy even if their games only had one player as long as that one player was willing to pay enough money to pay their bills with healthy profit for themselves.