Have you ever done it? I've never done it and I've never seen anyone do it whilie playing my CW.
Btw, I made a seperate thread to whine about icy rays.
I've done it once that I remember. And I've had someone dodge out of my mark when on my CW, but it was pure luck. You can also get lucky with Fox Shift or other CC immune powers.
It's really hard to dodge but that's intended. Might be more of a problem now that Orb is fixed and the root last longer than a second or so.
I've done it once that I remember. And I've had someone dodge out of my mark when on my CW, but it was pure luck. You can also get lucky with Fox Shift or other CC immune powers.
It's really hard to dodge but that's intended. Might be more of a problem now that Orb is fixed and the root last longer than a second or so.
Hmm my Icy Rays thread got canned. Guess I should've titled it "FIX Icy Rays".
All this doesnt mean a thing. In the near future u may read :"This ability did much more than we intended!" I;m sure that you dig enough you;ll see that this happen before.
We are only telling our own opinions about this and it wont change based just because on that.
But your opinion contradicts the facts. The whole thread is misleading because it assumes that PB isnt WAI. Pages full of "fix demands". You guys do that propably because u think its a stronger argument than to say "nerf that". Instead you say "fix that".
I question the kind of argumentation in this thread.
You can state ur opinion ofc, even if its stupid and missleading. Which I just have proven in my former post. But thats exactly what hinders true balancing the game.
Lets start this discussion seriously without some missleading and wrong arguments just to prove ur personal points.
The whole thread is misleading because it assumes that PB isnt WAI. Pages full of "fix demands". You guys do that propably because u think its a stronger argument than to say "nerf that". Instead you say "fix that".
It's because nerf threads are not allowed.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
So in other words, people try to sneak around the forum rules? Which means people dont really want a fair discussion or true balance? They just want their opportunistic opinions to rule?
One thing that can be said is that devs removed prones from GWF cause, and they themselves said this, following IBS was ignoring all DR and deflect, and that was not good.
They changed Assailant for the same reason.
Reason was, always, to "properly respect DR and deflect".
So it's at least to assume that it applies to every class, every power or feat in PvP.
One thing that can be said is that devs removed prones from GWF cause, and they themselves said this, following IBS was ignoring all DR and deflect, and that was not good.
They changed Assailant for the same reason.
Reason was, always, to "properly respect DR and deflect".
So it's at least to assume that it applies to every class, every power or feat in PvP.
Actually it was just deflect that they said was the concern with prones. Which still makes it puzzling that they'd then introduce new damage sources that ignore both deflect and DR.
In the case of the HR they've used PB to get around the problem that combat DPS is just too low for it to be a main style. The blades and melee encounters were never set up to be the exclusive source of DPS so when they changed the trees to make each of the stand-alone they needed to fix melee DPS. The right way to do this would have been to increase the base damage on all blades and/or buff melee encounters. My guess is they didn't have the 'bandwidth' to do this for Mod 4 so they came up with PB instead.
If PB gets removed or nerfed then they will need to increase HR melee DPS some other way. Because from levelling one recently you really struggle to do enough damage even to the levelling quest mobs until you get PB. I found myself spending more time in Archer mode than Combat until I had some points there.
But your opinion contradicts the facts. The whole thread is misleading because it assumes that PB isnt WAI. Pages full of "fix demands". You guys do that propably because u think its a stronger argument than to say "nerf that". Instead you say "fix that".
I question the kind of argumentation in this thread.
You can state ur opinion ofc, even if its stupid and missleading. Which I just have proven in my former post. But thats exactly what hinders true balancing the game.
Lets start this discussion seriously without some missleading and wrong arguments just to prove ur personal points.
I am not a part of the balance team, what i do notice is that vs very well geared players i stand 0 chance (i die in seconds without being able to drop even 10% hp of them). It may very well be cause certain bonus sets are too strong, or other items give too many advantages to certain classes(see cleric artifact on cws and trs or glyphs), but it is not my job to figure it all out. All i am required to do is yell when something seems wrong
Word of advice: what you think you;ve proven might be only for yourself and might mean nothing for another same for words as stupid or misleading.
Edit: Count the number of players of certain classes in the first 10 pages and tell me if anything seems wrong to you.
Please find here below 3 reasons why PIERCING BLADE must not be changed at all.
1) Icy Rays, Assailant and all these abilities are RANGED, while Piercing Blade is MELEE...have you never fought in melee?!?! you get into HELL, you expose yourself to mages/warlocks hits from side, you have to get totally uncovered to benefit from Piercing Blades. Mages instead, stay behind the combat line disintegrating people. CW and HR cannot be put at the same level on this point.
2) Hunter ranger does not have any damage reduction, any decent healing, nor armor. With these background conditions, bringing an hunter in melee is a TOTAL SUICIDE. The only thing that gives you a chance is lifesteal, and it's easy to understand that it CANNOT DEPEND ON WHICH CLASS YOU ARE HITTING.
The amount of damage you take from players is studied to be balanced among classes, so try to say now that Piercing Blade is affected by armor, reduction, etc. If you go against against high armored players you wont do sufficient damage to keep you alive at all. While against soft armored, you would stay alive much longer. THIS RESULTS in a COMPLETE IMPOSSIBILITY TO BALANCE HR at a general level.
HR need something hitting the same amount whichever armor/reduction it meets.
3) Too many nerfs were done to this class in the last mod. HR lost Damage Reduction of Lone Wolf, lost PVP bonus set, lost ROOTS, Fox shift was nerfed two times. Just reduce the damage now by changing piercing blade, and you will eliminate the last chance for HR to be viable in PVP.
they already stated that piercing is not WAI and will be fixed.
damage was made to be not affected by dr so it wouldnt get 2x affected by dr, but the problem is that piercing takes pre-mitigation damage not after mitigation as was intended so it deals same damage to gwf with 80% DR and naked character with 0% DR.
Guys, I wanted to step in and bring in some information about Piercing Blade.
First, I did some digging and it is currently *incorrectly* looking at damage before resistance, which is why it is going through immunity and dealing such a large amount of damage. Secondly, as to abilities piercing resistance. Most of these cases are either not intentional (WoB is a good example of this, and that is getting fixed with the rogue changes), or are designed for a pretty specific reason (like Piercing Blade intentionally being Piercing so that it doesn't get resistance applied twice).
These changes should be hitting Preview soonish, but I don't have an actual timeline yet. These changes cannot be rushed out because they do pretty drastically affect the performance of the classes in question, but we are making adjustments.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
EDIT: Regarding Icy Rays, I haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. It isn't marked as undodgable and my best guess (without a deep amount of digging) is that this is tied to how fast the actual bolts activate when fired (.4 seconds). I will have to investigate further.
Please find here below 3 reasons why PIERCING BLADE must not be changed at all.
1) Icy Rays, Assailant and all these abilities are RANGED, while Piercing Blade is MELEE...have you never fought in melee?!?! you get into HELL, you expose yourself to mages/warlocks hits from side, you have to get totally uncovered to benefit from Piercing Blades. Mages instead, stay behind the combat line disintegrating people. CW and HR cannot be put at the same level on this point.
2) Hunter ranger does not have any damage reduction, any decent healing, nor armor. With these background conditions, bringing an hunter in melee is a TOTAL SUICIDE. The only thing that gives you a chance is lifesteal, and it's easy to understand that it CANNOT DEPEND ON WHICH CLASS YOU ARE HITTING.
The amount of damage you take from players is studied to be balanced among classes, so try to say now that Piercing Blade is affected by armor, reduction, etc. If you go against against high armored players you wont do sufficient damage to keep you alive at all. While against soft armored, you would stay alive much longer. THIS RESULTS in a COMPLETE IMPOSSIBILITY TO BALANCE HR at a general level.
HR need something hitting the same amount whichever armor/reduction it meets.
3) Too many nerfs were done to this class in the last mod. HR lost Damage Reduction of Lone Wolf, lost PVP bonus set, lost ROOTS, Fox shift was nerfed two times. Just reduce the damage now by changing piercing blade, and you will eliminate the last chance for HR to be viable in PVP.
These are not arguments for keeping a broken power broken (and it IS broken right now - see GC's posts on this thread). These are arguments for tweaking the HR once PB is fixed.
These are not arguments for keeping a broken power broken (and it IS broken right now - see GC's posts on this thread). These are arguments for tweaking the HR once PB is fixed.
And we are supposed to wait an entire module for this? If piercing gets nerfed we need our other abilities boosted to provide a viable alternative build, there isn't one now.
And we are supposed to wait an entire module for this? If piercing gets nerfed we need our other abilities boosted to provide a viable alternative build, there isn't one now.
more boosts for HR coz of piercing blade fix?
lmfao.
Fix? HR will be nerfed into useless, melee won't be viable if they nerf PB. HR has already been nerfed enough so some of those old nerfs should be undone if PB is nerfed.
Fix? HR will be nerfed into useless, melee won't be viable if they nerf PB. HR has already been nerfed enough so some of those old nerfs should be undone if PB is nerfed.
Fix? HR will be nerfed into useless, melee won't be viable if they nerf PB. HR has already been nerfed enough so some of those old nerfs should be undone if PB is nerfed.
And just how are you supposed to deal with losing the only source of damage for a damage dealing class?
It will be unplayable unless other powers/feats are buffed or un-nerfed.
And just how are you supposed to deal with losing the only source of damage for a damage dealing class?
It will be unplayable unless other powers/feats are buffed or un-nerfed.
Idk, ask a rogue they've dealt with this over and over and over.
Idk, ask a rogue they've dealt with this over and over and over.
And that is justification to want to do it to another class?
After this nerf HR will have to respec to archery to have a chance to be useful in PVE, and end up becoming way too squishy to play PVP unless some earlier nerfs would be undone to compensate for loss of PB.
I have to agree with Marc on both counts and, unfortunately, archery HR usually comes second fiddle to the burst DPS of CWs, so it's not some golden trade-off, either.
CWs = we are so squishy and useless before. Please we must kill all other classes with one rotation pressing right button.
GWFs = we were kings and dominated for 2 modules! We killed HR not even noticing them. Why are thoose HR and CWs kill us ever?
GF = we werre so useless before. now we need to kill you all again and again and again. Just let me raise my shield and you kill yourself on my big red glyph
TR = we did it sneaky from behind.. just wait till we got fix.
DC = Why? what are fk we are supposed to do?
SW = Im a king now!
and to be honest about HR Id refraise it = crybabies cry again. New Nerf? again. What now they can not stand? Are we gonna get free respect at least this time? So how are we supposed to be damage dealer now if we are in full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? =D
PS obviously reading this post requires some irony. Smile it will make your life longer. Don't be perma crybaby like some below.
Lets fix ice rays. Lets make SW deal no damage. Deal with it.
ice rays is an encounter ability, piercing blade is a feat, they made assailiant resistable in pvp and its a feat, only seems natural they should do the same to piercing blade.
find the hole in my logic or agree with me. choose one
CWs = we are so squishy and useless before. Please we must kill all other classes with one rotation pressing right button.
GWFs = we were kings and dominated for 2 modules! We killed HR not even noticing them. Why are thoose HR and CWs kill us ever?
GF = we werre so useless before. now we need to kill you all again and again and again. Just let me raise my shield and you kill yourself on my big red glyph
TR = we did it sneaky from behind.. just wait till we got fix.
DC = Why? what are fk we are supposed to do?
SW = Im a king now!
and to be honest about HR Id refraise it = crybabies cry again. New Nerf? again. What now they can not stand? Are we gonna get free respect at least this time? So how are we supposed to be damage dealer now if we are in full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? =D
Learn to read... Nerf =/= fix, deal with that and stop crying.
And this is not a "GWF was OP 2 modules, now it's my turn", for the god sake, GWFs are now trash, GFs are being fixed, Assilant was fixed, etc... stop crying, seriously.
ice rays is an encounter ability, piercing blade is a feat, they made assailiant resistable in pvp and its a feat, only seems natural they should do the same to piercing blade.
find the hole in my logic or agree with me. choose one
Lol find irony in my sentance and deal with it .Guess i should have put big brackets on it. Ice rays don't require any skill btw. Same as Piecing proc. Deal with it.
Lol find irony in my sentance and deal with it .Guess i should have put big brackets on it. Ice rays don't require any skill btw. Same as Piecing proc. Deal with it.
More or less agree.
There is no "skill" involved when a power is practically undodgeable and thus, almost predestined to hit when you activate it. Skill only becomes a factor when there's a good chance the power may be dodged, and hence the player needs good timing to use it well.
Auto-hit stuff don't require skill.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I main a BiS HR and I find any HR that can defend piercing blade ridiculous.
Skill is broken OP on live as it is, same with red glyphs (and I have no respect for any HRs using red glyphs...). HR will still be strong after the Piercing Blade nerf but not as broken as it is currently. It'll mean you need to redo parts of your build possibly, and time your skills better instead of spamming things knowing you'll still get a lot of damage even if it gets dodged. At it stands, the only way to avoid damage from Fox Shift is to not be in its range when activated - you still take a lot of damage even if you dodge it because of Piercing Blade, and that's stupid. If you dodge a skill that's a dodge, not a "oh, you missed a skill, here, have a free 40% damage consolation prize".
Also one of my friends was saying that Piercing Blade sometimes actually did more damage than the original skill's damage (i.e. 5k Slasher's Mark, 7k Piercing Blade). While I haven't actually tested this or seen it, if it's true, then this is more than enough reason to fix the stupid feat. Piercing Blade is an overpowered and skill-less feat in its current form, almost as bad as red glyphs. Once PB and red glyphs are fixed then maybe skill can come into play.
I welcome this fix.
And as a final note, to anyone who's trying to defend this feat and saying that HR will be extremely weak after the fix, please learn how to build correctly and time your skills. Piercing Blade is usually around 40% damage in matches for me, and no more than 45% at maximum (ACT logs). This is because I don't waste my skills on people dodging. After the fix, Piercing Blade will still be around 30-40% damage on low defense classes such as HR and TR, and will probably drop down to around 20-30% against tankier classes such as GF/GWF (20-30% compared to live, technically, it's still a 40% bonus proportional to your damage). This is NOT the end of the world for HRs. You still have your healing and your damage is still very very good. You just need to learn to aim properly, not spam needlessly, and not attacking people that are dodging.
Instead of being a flat 40% damage bonus to all damage pre-mitigation (therefore doesn't take mitigation/deflect/dodge into effect), it's now a 40% damage increase to skills that you LAND. And that's perfectly fine and how it should be.
Comments
It's really hard to dodge but that's intended. Might be more of a problem now that Orb is fixed and the root last longer than a second or so.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Hmm my Icy Rays thread got canned. Guess I should've titled it "FIX Icy Rays".
But your opinion contradicts the facts. The whole thread is misleading because it assumes that PB isnt WAI. Pages full of "fix demands". You guys do that propably because u think its a stronger argument than to say "nerf that". Instead you say "fix that".
I question the kind of argumentation in this thread.
You can state ur opinion ofc, even if its stupid and missleading. Which I just have proven in my former post. But thats exactly what hinders true balancing the game.
Lets start this discussion seriously without some missleading and wrong arguments just to prove ur personal points.
It's because nerf threads are not allowed.
So in other words, people try to sneak around the forum rules? Which means people dont really want a fair discussion or true balance? They just want their opportunistic opinions to rule?
Would have never guessed that :-P
They changed Assailant for the same reason.
Reason was, always, to "properly respect DR and deflect".
So it's at least to assume that it applies to every class, every power or feat in PvP.
In the case of the HR they've used PB to get around the problem that combat DPS is just too low for it to be a main style. The blades and melee encounters were never set up to be the exclusive source of DPS so when they changed the trees to make each of the stand-alone they needed to fix melee DPS. The right way to do this would have been to increase the base damage on all blades and/or buff melee encounters. My guess is they didn't have the 'bandwidth' to do this for Mod 4 so they came up with PB instead.
If PB gets removed or nerfed then they will need to increase HR melee DPS some other way. Because from levelling one recently you really struggle to do enough damage even to the levelling quest mobs until you get PB. I found myself spending more time in Archer mode than Combat until I had some points there.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I am not a part of the balance team, what i do notice is that vs very well geared players i stand 0 chance (i die in seconds without being able to drop even 10% hp of them). It may very well be cause certain bonus sets are too strong, or other items give too many advantages to certain classes(see cleric artifact on cws and trs or glyphs), but it is not my job to figure it all out. All i am required to do is yell when something seems wrong
Word of advice: what you think you;ve proven might be only for yourself and might mean nothing for another same for words as stupid or misleading.
Edit: Count the number of players of certain classes in the first 10 pages and tell me if anything seems wrong to you.
1) Icy Rays, Assailant and all these abilities are RANGED, while Piercing Blade is MELEE...have you never fought in melee?!?! you get into HELL, you expose yourself to mages/warlocks hits from side, you have to get totally uncovered to benefit from Piercing Blades. Mages instead, stay behind the combat line disintegrating people. CW and HR cannot be put at the same level on this point.
2) Hunter ranger does not have any damage reduction, any decent healing, nor armor. With these background conditions, bringing an hunter in melee is a TOTAL SUICIDE. The only thing that gives you a chance is lifesteal, and it's easy to understand that it CANNOT DEPEND ON WHICH CLASS YOU ARE HITTING.
The amount of damage you take from players is studied to be balanced among classes, so try to say now that Piercing Blade is affected by armor, reduction, etc. If you go against against high armored players you wont do sufficient damage to keep you alive at all. While against soft armored, you would stay alive much longer. THIS RESULTS in a COMPLETE IMPOSSIBILITY TO BALANCE HR at a general level.
HR need something hitting the same amount whichever armor/reduction it meets.
3) Too many nerfs were done to this class in the last mod. HR lost Damage Reduction of Lone Wolf, lost PVP bonus set, lost ROOTS, Fox shift was nerfed two times. Just reduce the damage now by changing piercing blade, and you will eliminate the last chance for HR to be viable in PVP.
damage was made to be not affected by dr so it wouldnt get 2x affected by dr, but the problem is that piercing takes pre-mitigation damage not after mitigation as was intended so it deals same damage to gwf with 80% DR and naked character with 0% DR.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
And we are supposed to wait an entire module for this? If piercing gets nerfed we need our other abilities boosted to provide a viable alternative build, there isn't one now.
more boosts for HR coz of piercing blade fix?
lmfao.
I know right? Some people...
HRs = Fix all the other classes except me
These guys...
Its a fix.
Deal with it.
And just how are you supposed to deal with losing the only source of damage for a damage dealing class?
It will be unplayable unless other powers/feats are buffed or un-nerfed.
Idk, ask a rogue they've dealt with this over and over and over.
And that is justification to want to do it to another class?
After this nerf HR will have to respec to archery to have a chance to be useful in PVE, and end up becoming way too squishy to play PVP unless some earlier nerfs would be undone to compensate for loss of PB.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
CWs = we are so squishy and useless before. Please we must kill all other classes with one rotation pressing right button.
GWFs = we were kings and dominated for 2 modules! We killed HR not even noticing them. Why are thoose HR and CWs kill us ever?
GF = we werre so useless before. now we need to kill you all again and again and again. Just let me raise my shield and you kill yourself on my big red glyph
TR = we did it sneaky from behind.. just wait till we got fix.
DC = Why? what are fk we are supposed to do?
SW = Im a king now!
and to be honest about HR Id refraise it = crybabies cry again. New Nerf? again. What now they can not stand? Are we gonna get free respect at least this time? So how are we supposed to be damage dealer now if we are in full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? =D
PS obviously reading this post requires some irony. Smile it will make your life longer. Don't be perma crybaby like some below.
Lets fix ice rays. Lets make SW deal no damage. Deal with it.
ice rays is an encounter ability, piercing blade is a feat, they made assailiant resistable in pvp and its a feat, only seems natural they should do the same to piercing blade.
find the hole in my logic or agree with me. choose one
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Learn to read... Nerf =/= fix, deal with that and stop crying.
And this is not a "GWF was OP 2 modules, now it's my turn", for the god sake, GWFs are now trash, GFs are being fixed, Assilant was fixed, etc... stop crying, seriously.
Lol find irony in my sentance and deal with it .Guess i should have put big brackets on it. Ice rays don't require any skill btw. Same as Piecing proc. Deal with it.
More or less agree.
There is no "skill" involved when a power is practically undodgeable and thus, almost predestined to hit when you activate it. Skill only becomes a factor when there's a good chance the power may be dodged, and hence the player needs good timing to use it well.
Auto-hit stuff don't require skill.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Skill is broken OP on live as it is, same with red glyphs (and I have no respect for any HRs using red glyphs...). HR will still be strong after the Piercing Blade nerf but not as broken as it is currently. It'll mean you need to redo parts of your build possibly, and time your skills better instead of spamming things knowing you'll still get a lot of damage even if it gets dodged. At it stands, the only way to avoid damage from Fox Shift is to not be in its range when activated - you still take a lot of damage even if you dodge it because of Piercing Blade, and that's stupid. If you dodge a skill that's a dodge, not a "oh, you missed a skill, here, have a free 40% damage consolation prize".
Also one of my friends was saying that Piercing Blade sometimes actually did more damage than the original skill's damage (i.e. 5k Slasher's Mark, 7k Piercing Blade). While I haven't actually tested this or seen it, if it's true, then this is more than enough reason to fix the stupid feat. Piercing Blade is an overpowered and skill-less feat in its current form, almost as bad as red glyphs. Once PB and red glyphs are fixed then maybe skill can come into play.
I welcome this fix.
And as a final note, to anyone who's trying to defend this feat and saying that HR will be extremely weak after the fix, please learn how to build correctly and time your skills. Piercing Blade is usually around 40% damage in matches for me, and no more than 45% at maximum (ACT logs). This is because I don't waste my skills on people dodging. After the fix, Piercing Blade will still be around 30-40% damage on low defense classes such as HR and TR, and will probably drop down to around 20-30% against tankier classes such as GF/GWF (20-30% compared to live, technically, it's still a 40% bonus proportional to your damage). This is NOT the end of the world for HRs. You still have your healing and your damage is still very very good. You just need to learn to aim properly, not spam needlessly, and not attacking people that are dodging.
Instead of being a flat 40% damage bonus to all damage pre-mitigation (therefore doesn't take mitigation/deflect/dodge into effect), it's now a 40% damage increase to skills that you LAND. And that's perfectly fine and how it should be.