Please go create and play a HR and then tell me about not having to aim or time attacks especially since you are complaining about the melee end of the spectrum.
I have 17k Destroyer GWF and 16k Combat HR, HR is an easy mode. I can't lose even if I fail my abilities. The only real enemy is overgeared CW, that can just 1 rotation me (as well as any other character of any class except GF).
The problem is that you don't need to constantly hit your target to deal damage. Apply some dots on it and run around. And they are easy as hell to aim. I mostly run Maradeur's/Boar's/Fox or Maradeur's replaced with Rain of Arrows if there are lots of GWFs and GF. Why is it so easy to apply Boar's and Fox? Disruptive Shot. If you can't aim it, well, uninstall.
My dots will finish my target while I'll be running around, dodging, stealth maradeur's escaping and forest ghost'ing. I need to successfully hit my target once and then it's dead. Try to fight CW or combat HR with destroyer GWF and realize how easy HR is.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Blade Hurricane did most of the damage, as I said due to Rain of Swords proc'ing flurry once per second.
...and yet for some reason you don't really notice how 46% of the entire damage is dealt through a passive proc-damage - something which just automatically follows after the initial attack. Landing the initial attack, the power which is the source/origin of the proc, that may take a certain amount of skill. But in the parsed data, 46% of the entire damage dealt is simply "auto". Something that is unavoidable, unmitigated, and just simply guaranteed.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Although with an ugpraded 20' Conal Range it's probably closest to:
Roar
And maybe if we give it some shiny ground lights:
Frontline Surge
I don't have a problem with it's ability to miss. I'd just like an indication of when you're in range. Or only be able to fire it when in range. Greying out the icon would be enough.
I got ya now Crixus. I think(just a hypothesis) that the reason they gave Rangers the fast DoT capabilities was to balance out their low base damage. Look at most of their powers(with the exception of aimed shot, and seismic shot). Their ranged and melee encounter powers have such horrible damage, but its offset by the fact that theyre great speed dps cannons.
The way I look at CWs/GWFs versus HRs is this:
CWs/GWFs have WAY more powerful encounters, HRs can use theirs way more often.(I mean, compare sudden storm/Indomitable Battle Strike to HRs most powerful encounters... you cant!). I mean, look at CWs shard... despite its damage nerf for mod4, it still outweighs most DC/TR/HR powers. Is there not anything wrong with that picture?
if anyone even checked them out, yes HRs get 6 encounters, but when you add their base damage together, they still pale in comparison to the average CW/GWF power. Fox's Shift was the only standalone power HRs had, and that was nerfed kind of quickly, wasn't it?
I agree with slowing down their DoTs. But as someone said, tread lightly. The major dps classes(CWs/GWFs) have far more damaging powers, and I believe putting their speed to that level ruins the class completely. Who wants a class that ticks for 1k/sec, compared to the power of CWs/GWFs burning mobs 6k/sec(just an example)?
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
CWs/GWFs have WAY more powerful encounters, HRs can use theirs way more often.(I mean, compare sudden storm/Indomitable Battle Strike to HRs most powerful encounters... you cant!)
Now compare how hard it's to land Sudden Storm/IBS and any HR damaging encounter. Compare their animation speed, range and width.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Now compare how hard it's to land Sudden Storm/IBS and any HR damaging encounter. Compare their animation speed, range and width.
If you're talking about PvE those powers are the easiest to land since all the mobs stay in a bunch and don't move if someone is properly controlling the aggro. If you're talking about PvP nobody uses them for the same reason nobody uses rain of arrows, high reward with a higher risk of not landing it.
I dont know what your skill levels are or how your gear is, but out of the top pages i am yet to witness a gwf or gf to be able to kill a good HR. Only class that can kill a HR is CW and that is it, i have seen also top TRs that can go 1v1 with HR but only as keeping it busy.
As a GWF if i can hit all my skills and crit them all (daily also) without any dodge it is true that i did killed a HR once only to proc his soulforge and i died after that with the HR being full health. As a GWF i cant dodge HR skills and if one skill lands all the other follow. My HP goes under 50% from a single rotation and that while i am in unstoppable with 80% dmg reduction, seen the same thing with GF .
Last time i;ve checked (been some time, things may have changed) top hrs were using the cd reduction set so no glyphs were involved.
Since i wont respec my HR to test what exactly is going on, i can only say that something is very wrong from my point of view and needs some attention from the devs.
IBS is in every good gwf rotation. Right now, with fls and takedown. Read bullcrap about sentinels for module 4 pvp. Turns out the 'bis' gwf They referred to rock a destro build with close to 22k GS of stuff, 62.7k hp and that exact same rotation.
Right now the above rotation is the most 'reliable' one, and is pretty much a normal old chain- cc rotation.
The other build i'm testing instead is the sprint-based destro build. Pro is you have lots of sprint and room for footwork. Con is, it's action-centered and extremely skill-requiring cause in order to catch your enemy you need to anticipate his movements, and greatly. You must be 1 second ahead of the enemy. Else, you hit thin air.
Now, i understand it's my personal choice, but what shine the most in nWo is the action part of combat. Else, it's just like any other mmorpg.
Auto-lock and all this cheesy passive stuff only bring less action and reduces everything to, basically, a point and click game.
And people like to point and click with just little true action, then talk about 'skills'.
Perhaps cryptic changed everything to adapt the game to console players. But the action part of the game is at a minimum right now. And most pro pvper are just overgeared guys using relatively easy rotations with low risk and high reward. A game with such good action combat (potentially) imho should go for high risk-high reward/low risk-low reward/medium risk-medium reward.
But that's just my personal preference. I understand that for people who want less challenge it could be frustrating. May be i'll take some time and make a video of me pvping to better explain what i mean.
Perhaps cryptic changed everything to adapt the game to console players. But the action part of the game is at a minimum right now. And most pro pvper are just overgeared guys using relatively easy rotations with low risk and high reward. A game with such good action combat (potentially) imho should go for high risk-high reward/low risk-low reward/medium risk-medium reward.
#Bringbackshard
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I got ya now Crixus. I think(just a hypothesis) that the reason they gave Rangers the fast DoT capabilities was to balance out their low base damage. Look at most of their powers(with the exception of aimed shot, and seismic shot). Their ranged and melee encounter powers have such horrible damage, but its offset by the fact that theyre great speed dps cannons.
The way I look at CWs/GWFs versus HRs is this:
CWs/GWFs have WAY more powerful encounters, HRs can use theirs way more often.(I mean, compare sudden storm/Indomitable Battle Strike to HRs most powerful encounters... you cant!). I mean, look at CWs shard... despite its damage nerf for mod4, it still outweighs most DC/TR/HR powers. Is there not anything wrong with that picture?
if anyone even checked them out, yes HRs get 6 encounters, but when you add their base damage together, they still pale in comparison to the average CW/GWF power. Fox's Shift was the only standalone power HRs had, and that was nerfed kind of quickly, wasn't it?
I agree with slowing down their DoTs. But as someone said, tread lightly. The major dps classes(CWs/GWFs) have far more damaging powers, and I believe putting their speed to that level ruins the class completely. Who wants a class that ticks for 1k/sec, compared to the power of CWs/GWFs burning mobs 6k/sec(just an example)?
I have no problem with hr having high dps, i have seen some warlocks and full dps gwf that can kill me very quick even though i have 50k hp but i dont mind since i could do very high dmg back to them too. With hr though in a fight they can just boar charge me (i can maybe block some but if they play it right i will have to lower guard at some point) then they can land dot and from there they just keep there distance healing up and i take crazy dmg without them even doing anything. I can't really think of a better way of making it though, not sure how it could be made to be more skilled to land but in my opinion i do think it needs a change.
I have no problem with hr having high dps, i have seen some warlocks and full dps gwf that can kill me very quick even though i have 50k hp but i dont mind since i could do very high dmg back to them too. With hr though in a fight they can just boar charge me (i can maybe block some but if they play it right i will have to lower guard at some point) then they can land dot and from there they just keep there distance healing up and i take crazy dmg without them even doing anything. I can't really think of a better way of making it though, not sure how it could be made to be more skilled to land but in my opinion i do think it needs a change.
I agree with you. As 18k GS HR. I had seen good player that can kill me well)) No objection to skill. I kill them too in return.
Piercing is an issue. As I wrote here Unmitigated Damage is ok in D&D but requires changes to all defense.
On other hand look - combat HR were forced to play with offhand weapon. That gives ~ 480 base damage top. Against ~ 900 base damage main from other classes. it was different in mod 3 where we could use our bow and it worked in good combo melee 60% and bow 40%. But now we have low offhand as 90% of damage dealer and low damage melee encounter - due to all nerfs we had in mod 3 for them - and we really have like 2 good melee encounter with +- 1 or 2 depending on style and situation.
So I do wish they listened to what preview was saying before - make off hand as main for HR - give it more damage. Rework encounters for melee. Yes it is a lot of work. It is way easier to have what we have now.
I agree with you. As 18k GS HR. I had seen good player that can kill me well)) No objection to skill. I kill them too in return.
Piercing is an issue. As I wrote here Unmitigated Damage is ok in D&D but requires changes to all defense.
On other hand look - combat HR were forced to play with offhand weapon. That gives ~ 480 base damage top. Against ~ 900 base damage main from other classes. it was different in mod 3 where we could use our bow and it worked in good combo melee 60% and bow 40%. But now we have low offhand as 90% of damage dealer and low damage melee encounter - due to all nerfs we had in mod 3 for them - and we really have like 2 good melee encounter with +- 1 or 2 depending on style and situation.
So I do wish they listened to what preview was saying before - make off hand as main for HR - give it more damage. Rework encounters for melee. Yes it is a lot of work. It is way easier to have what we have now.
TR mainhand is HR offhand damage. And yet could scratch our heads over why Lashing Blade does more damage than Marauder's. But the answer is clearly that skill modifiers, feats, procs all need to be considered.
TR mainhand is HR offhand damage. And yet could scratch our heads over why Lashing Blade does more damage than Marauder's. But the answer is clearly that skill modifiers, feats, procs all need to be considered.
TR have 2 blades with ~450-480 base. So its is kinda 2 of HRs combat mains. And yes it is all in how devs made it work
TR have 2 blades with ~450-480 base. So its is kinda 2 of HRs combat mains. And yes it is all in how devs made it work
Maybe a better example would've been GF Longswords vs GWF Greatswords where Crushing Surge outdamages everything. But yes it is all in how devs designed it. And despite the low base damage on HR Swords, they're designed to have high enough modifiers, feats, and procs to make up for it.
Otherwise, we would not have this thread. If HRs did **** damage this thread would not be here, and we'd possibly have a different "Buff HR damage" thread in its place. Unmitigated damage is only part of the complaints here. The observation is that HRs are able to output a large amount of damage at low risk.
If we just "fix" Piercing Blades by reducing damage, but at the same time buff base damage to compensate, this type of thread is going to resurface in a month's time under a different title. "Fixing" these type of class imbalances is going to take more than just hot-gluing minor tweaks onto the end of the next set of patchnotes.
HRs did only piercing type damage. Would we be able to agree on a comfortable damage level that would feel balanced?
Sure, it's commonplace in many games to have these type of counter-mechanics in place. An HR could do 20% unmitigated damage with each encounter and be in a decent spot, balance-wise compared to the rest of the classes. They lop off chunks of GFs health when other classes are barely able to dent them, but they do competitively low damage compared to a TR when up against a very low armor CW.
So there should be a middleground "suitable" damage level for the current raw+piercing damage HRs are dishing out, if we're willing to accept that these kind of counter-mechanics exist. It's just a matter of completely rehauling the rest of the classes to fall in line competitively and be able to equally contribute a specific role in every PVP match. Easy, right?
You know, HR is a striker class.
And pls dont bring the argument: "HRs are so tanky". This is not mod3. There we dealt low burst but were very tanky. People were saying: buff HRs dmg and lower his tankiness.
We are now in a state were some people even say: nerf HR dmg, while others say: nerf their deflect, others say: nerf their self healing.
If every nerf would have been made people were asking about, there would be no HRs left.
It reminds me about the stupid and neverending threads about nerfing TRs and perma stealth. Mostly comming from people who have never played seriously a TR and people who just didnt know how to play against a stealthed target.
Have people here even thought about the possibility that there is also skill involved? And if u play a HR right and to full potential, guess what that class is supposed to do: hunt people down and kill them. HRs are not robin hoods hiding in bushes and make pewpew with their wooden bows. They rule naturally supreme in 1vs1 and killing stuff fast and efficient. The downside is, HRs have nearly zero group utility.
Maybe a better example would've been GF Longswords vs GWF Greatswords where Crushing Surge outdamages everything. But yes it is all in how devs designed it. And despite the low base damage on HR Swords, they're designed to have high enough modifiers, feats, and procs to make up for it.
Otherwise, we would not have this thread. If HRs did **** damage this thread would not be here, and we'd possibly have a different "Buff HR damage" thread in its place. Unmitigated damage is only part of the complaints here. The observation is that HRs are able to output a large amount of damage at low risk.
HR combat damage without PB is terrible. That's the whole point. I just levelled a Combat HR and until I got PB I spent more time using my bow than my blades - despite not having a single feat for Archery - because otherwise I struggled to kill trash mobs in the levelling quests.
Just think about that for a minute. The weakest mobs in the game were a challenge. That's how poor HR combat damage is without all the gimmicks added in Mod 4. I'm currently levelling a DC and she is actually doing more DPS than my HR did with her blades. It's that bad.
HR combat damage without PB is terrible. That's the whole point. I just levelled a Combat HR and until I got PB I spent more time using my bow than my blades - despite not having a single feat for Archery - because otherwise I struggled to kill trash mobs in the levelling quests.
Just think about that for a minute. The weakest mobs in the game were a challenge. That's how poor HR combat damage is without all the gimmicks added in Mod 4. I'm currently levelling a DC and she is actually doing more DPS than my HR did with her blades. It's that bad.
so? the problem with them isn't while leveling, it isnt while doing PVE its while doing pvp and the fact there is nothing you can do against them, its guarentee'd damage through dodges, ITC, exhaltation and other immunitys, along with DR and Deflect, which should not be the case,
The devs saw that unresistable damage was wrong with assailing force, so the same should apply to something even stronger, piercing blade.
You guys miss the point. It's not damage itself. It's how hard it is to land it. Now give a CW 90k damage on shard and take away the rest of the damage. Give a HR 200k damage on a takedown-like power for example and take away the piercing blade damage. I'd love to see it. Pure DPS with high chance to miss< easy landing low-medium damage with low chance to miss. For example, turn ibs into a 5k max damage power but with same animation as savage advance, or make takedown a auto-gap closing power with range and insta dash at your enemy+lock on target. Less damage but 90% chance to land.
But people would complain cause just like few cws were good at using shard, most 'skilled' players would suck and struggle to even land 1 hit.
But a high risk- high reward system would imho also mitigate the current excess of burst DPS cause less hits would actually land. And there would be more skill and tactic involved.
so? the problem with them isn't while leveling, it isnt while doing PVE its while doing pvp and the fact there is nothing you can do against them, its guarentee'd damage through dodges, ITC, exhaltation and other immunitys, along with DR and Deflect, which should not be the case,
The devs saw that unresistable damage was wrong with assailing force, so the same should apply to something even stronger, piercing blade.
If you can't level then nobody plays the class. Plus the Devs bas their decisions on damage numbers seen in game, not empirical feedback from the tiny minority of players in top-level PvP.
And if you look at other posts I've made on the subject you'll see that I don't agree with PB as it's been implemented. It should NEVER trigger if the base attack is dodged for a start, or pierce full damage immunity from bosses etc. It's a bad fix to a real problem. The issue I have with threads like this is that nobody offers a solution other than 'nerf NAOW plox'. Come up with some alternatives for a change. I've listed three simple changes in this and other threads - it's not that hard.
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited September 2014
HR Powers are NOT easy to land. Certainly not easier than CW powers.
Saying it is easy to land in PvP is completely and utterly wrong. And seriously if you want to say it's hard to land something in PvP comparably please use a better example than the kings of CC. If you are saying it's okay for Control Wizards to have insane damage because it's hard to hit then you are completely ignoring powers like Entangling Force.
It's easier to land Entangling Force than Boar Rush
(Equally hard to dodge and ranged has an advantage)
Additionally Boar Rush's knockdown lasts about .5-1 second and have time for ONE attack. Entangling Force lasts at least two in which the CW can cast at least two more powers (likely extending the CC).
Saying the hard to land powers on an HR is easy to land because of Boar Rush while saying CW's have a harder time landing powers is just...wrong. Sorry it is outright wrong.
Please stop posting that. It's so biased in every way it is violating the nerf request rule. I've been lenient with this thread but be realistic please. Asking for nerfs based on hyperbolic biased opinions is wrong and against the rules.
Comments
I have 17k Destroyer GWF and 16k Combat HR, HR is an easy mode. I can't lose even if I fail my abilities. The only real enemy is overgeared CW, that can just 1 rotation me (as well as any other character of any class except GF).
The problem is that you don't need to constantly hit your target to deal damage. Apply some dots on it and run around. And they are easy as hell to aim. I mostly run Maradeur's/Boar's/Fox or Maradeur's replaced with Rain of Arrows if there are lots of GWFs and GF. Why is it so easy to apply Boar's and Fox? Disruptive Shot. If you can't aim it, well, uninstall.
My dots will finish my target while I'll be running around, dodging, stealth maradeur's escaping and forest ghost'ing. I need to successfully hit my target once and then it's dead. Try to fight CW or combat HR with destroyer GWF and realize how easy HR is.
...and yet for some reason you don't really notice how 46% of the entire damage is dealt through a passive proc-damage - something which just automatically follows after the initial attack. Landing the initial attack, the power which is the source/origin of the proc, that may take a certain amount of skill. But in the parsed data, 46% of the entire damage dealt is simply "auto". Something that is unavoidable, unmitigated, and just simply guaranteed.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Great post, pando.
This is all there is to it: you should AIM, and TIME your stuff, not get point&click guaranteed candy.
Agreed.
Less passive, "guaranteed" results, more active techniques for the game.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
If you're talking about Careful Attack then it can only trigger every 1.5s already.
If you're talking about the bleeds from Rain of Swords or Aimed Strike, then they're hardly unique in the game.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
That is completely insane.
LOL!
I have two level 60 TRs, a Wood Elf Stormwarden Archer and a Halfling Pathfinder with no Feats after being reset for Module 4.
Could you post your build so I can try it out in the Siege of Neverwinter?
Cheers!
The way I look at CWs/GWFs versus HRs is this:
CWs/GWFs have WAY more powerful encounters, HRs can use theirs way more often.(I mean, compare sudden storm/Indomitable Battle Strike to HRs most powerful encounters... you cant!). I mean, look at CWs shard... despite its damage nerf for mod4, it still outweighs most DC/TR/HR powers. Is there not anything wrong with that picture?
if anyone even checked them out, yes HRs get 6 encounters, but when you add their base damage together, they still pale in comparison to the average CW/GWF power. Fox's Shift was the only standalone power HRs had, and that was nerfed kind of quickly, wasn't it?
I agree with slowing down their DoTs. But as someone said, tread lightly. The major dps classes(CWs/GWFs) have far more damaging powers, and I believe putting their speed to that level ruins the class completely. Who wants a class that ticks for 1k/sec, compared to the power of CWs/GWFs burning mobs 6k/sec(just an example)?
Now compare how hard it's to land Sudden Storm/IBS and any HR damaging encounter. Compare their animation speed, range and width.
If you're talking about PvE those powers are the easiest to land since all the mobs stay in a bunch and don't move if someone is properly controlling the aggro. If you're talking about PvP nobody uses them for the same reason nobody uses rain of arrows, high reward with a higher risk of not landing it.
As a GWF if i can hit all my skills and crit them all (daily also) without any dodge it is true that i did killed a HR once only to proc his soulforge and i died after that with the HR being full health. As a GWF i cant dodge HR skills and if one skill lands all the other follow. My HP goes under 50% from a single rotation and that while i am in unstoppable with 80% dmg reduction, seen the same thing with GF .
Last time i;ve checked (been some time, things may have changed) top hrs were using the cd reduction set so no glyphs were involved.
Since i wont respec my HR to test what exactly is going on, i can only say that something is very wrong from my point of view and needs some attention from the devs.
Right now the above rotation is the most 'reliable' one, and is pretty much a normal old chain- cc rotation.
The other build i'm testing instead is the sprint-based destro build. Pro is you have lots of sprint and room for footwork. Con is, it's action-centered and extremely skill-requiring cause in order to catch your enemy you need to anticipate his movements, and greatly. You must be 1 second ahead of the enemy. Else, you hit thin air.
Now, i understand it's my personal choice, but what shine the most in nWo is the action part of combat. Else, it's just like any other mmorpg.
Auto-lock and all this cheesy passive stuff only bring less action and reduces everything to, basically, a point and click game.
And people like to point and click with just little true action, then talk about 'skills'.
Perhaps cryptic changed everything to adapt the game to console players. But the action part of the game is at a minimum right now. And most pro pvper are just overgeared guys using relatively easy rotations with low risk and high reward. A game with such good action combat (potentially) imho should go for high risk-high reward/low risk-low reward/medium risk-medium reward.
But that's just my personal preference. I understand that for people who want less challenge it could be frustrating. May be i'll take some time and make a video of me pvping to better explain what i mean.
#Bringbackshard
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I have no problem with hr having high dps, i have seen some warlocks and full dps gwf that can kill me very quick even though i have 50k hp but i dont mind since i could do very high dmg back to them too. With hr though in a fight they can just boar charge me (i can maybe block some but if they play it right i will have to lower guard at some point) then they can land dot and from there they just keep there distance healing up and i take crazy dmg without them even doing anything. I can't really think of a better way of making it though, not sure how it could be made to be more skilled to land but in my opinion i do think it needs a change.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Couldn't you post it here?
I agree with you. As 18k GS HR. I had seen good player that can kill me well)) No objection to skill. I kill them too in return.
Piercing is an issue. As I wrote here Unmitigated Damage is ok in D&D but requires changes to all defense.
On other hand look - combat HR were forced to play with offhand weapon. That gives ~ 480 base damage top. Against ~ 900 base damage main from other classes. it was different in mod 3 where we could use our bow and it worked in good combo melee 60% and bow 40%. But now we have low offhand as 90% of damage dealer and low damage melee encounter - due to all nerfs we had in mod 3 for them - and we really have like 2 good melee encounter with +- 1 or 2 depending on style and situation.
So I do wish they listened to what preview was saying before - make off hand as main for HR - give it more damage. Rework encounters for melee. Yes it is a lot of work. It is way easier to have what we have now.
TR mainhand is HR offhand damage. And yet could scratch our heads over why Lashing Blade does more damage than Marauder's. But the answer is clearly that skill modifiers, feats, procs all need to be considered.
TR have 2 blades with ~450-480 base. So its is kinda 2 of HRs combat mains. And yes it is all in how devs made it work
Maybe a better example would've been GF Longswords vs GWF Greatswords where Crushing Surge outdamages everything. But yes it is all in how devs designed it. And despite the low base damage on HR Swords, they're designed to have high enough modifiers, feats, and procs to make up for it.
Otherwise, we would not have this thread. If HRs did **** damage this thread would not be here, and we'd possibly have a different "Buff HR damage" thread in its place. Unmitigated damage is only part of the complaints here. The observation is that HRs are able to output a large amount of damage at low risk.
If we just "fix" Piercing Blades by reducing damage, but at the same time buff base damage to compensate, this type of thread is going to resurface in a month's time under a different title. "Fixing" these type of class imbalances is going to take more than just hot-gluing minor tweaks onto the end of the next set of patchnotes.
HRs did only piercing type damage. Would we be able to agree on a comfortable damage level that would feel balanced?
Sure, it's commonplace in many games to have these type of counter-mechanics in place. An HR could do 20% unmitigated damage with each encounter and be in a decent spot, balance-wise compared to the rest of the classes. They lop off chunks of GFs health when other classes are barely able to dent them, but they do competitively low damage compared to a TR when up against a very low armor CW.
So there should be a middleground "suitable" damage level for the current raw+piercing damage HRs are dishing out, if we're willing to accept that these kind of counter-mechanics exist. It's just a matter of completely rehauling the rest of the classes to fall in line competitively and be able to equally contribute a specific role in every PVP match. Easy, right?
And pls dont bring the argument: "HRs are so tanky". This is not mod3. There we dealt low burst but were very tanky. People were saying: buff HRs dmg and lower his tankiness.
We are now in a state were some people even say: nerf HR dmg, while others say: nerf their deflect, others say: nerf their self healing.
If every nerf would have been made people were asking about, there would be no HRs left.
It reminds me about the stupid and neverending threads about nerfing TRs and perma stealth. Mostly comming from people who have never played seriously a TR and people who just didnt know how to play against a stealthed target.
Have people here even thought about the possibility that there is also skill involved? And if u play a HR right and to full potential, guess what that class is supposed to do: hunt people down and kill them. HRs are not robin hoods hiding in bushes and make pewpew with their wooden bows. They rule naturally supreme in 1vs1 and killing stuff fast and efficient. The downside is, HRs have nearly zero group utility.
Just think about that for a minute. The weakest mobs in the game were a challenge. That's how poor HR combat damage is without all the gimmicks added in Mod 4. I'm currently levelling a DC and she is actually doing more DPS than my HR did with her blades. It's that bad.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
so? the problem with them isn't while leveling, it isnt while doing PVE its while doing pvp and the fact there is nothing you can do against them, its guarentee'd damage through dodges, ITC, exhaltation and other immunitys, along with DR and Deflect, which should not be the case,
The devs saw that unresistable damage was wrong with assailing force, so the same should apply to something even stronger, piercing blade.
But people would complain cause just like few cws were good at using shard, most 'skilled' players would suck and struggle to even land 1 hit.
But a high risk- high reward system would imho also mitigate the current excess of burst DPS cause less hits would actually land. And there would be more skill and tactic involved.
And if you look at other posts I've made on the subject you'll see that I don't agree with PB as it's been implemented. It should NEVER trigger if the base attack is dodged for a start, or pierce full damage immunity from bosses etc. It's a bad fix to a real problem. The issue I have with threads like this is that nobody offers a solution other than 'nerf NAOW plox'. Come up with some alternatives for a change. I've listed three simple changes in this and other threads - it's not that hard.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Saying it is easy to land in PvP is completely and utterly wrong. And seriously if you want to say it's hard to land something in PvP comparably please use a better example than the kings of CC. If you are saying it's okay for Control Wizards to have insane damage because it's hard to hit then you are completely ignoring powers like Entangling Force.
It's easier to land Entangling Force than Boar Rush
(Equally hard to dodge and ranged has an advantage)
Additionally Boar Rush's knockdown lasts about .5-1 second and have time for ONE attack. Entangling Force lasts at least two in which the CW can cast at least two more powers (likely extending the CC).
Saying the hard to land powers on an HR is easy to land because of Boar Rush while saying CW's have a harder time landing powers is just...wrong. Sorry it is outright wrong.
Please stop posting that. It's so biased in every way it is violating the nerf request rule. I've been lenient with this thread but be realistic please. Asking for nerfs based on hyperbolic biased opinions is wrong and against the rules.