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A viable PVP rework that would do the community good.
joncans
Member Posts: 158 Bounty Hunter
Before I make my suggestions I would just like to point out that I have relevant credentials. Besides playing competitive PVP in MMO's for over a decade, I was also a semi-pro competitive FPS player who was in tournaments. In addition to that I worked at two studios in the US and was part of the multi-player level and game design for a certain flagship sci-fi FPS shooter. I worked on that title for over a year.
Let's jump in.
1. Eliminate leader board from Domination. If the mode were TDM or DM, then it makes sense. It's not, it's a 5v5 mode, where team work counts. In match leaderboards are fine, let people rock their ego then, not afterwards.
2. Eliminate pre-made from Domination. This is a big one, but I will make a suggestion where pre-made is a prerequisite in a moment, so please read through. Domination should be all Pug's all the time. This pits guilds against guilds and tests the individual. You would need to represent your guild in each match and this is why.
3. Replace leader board with Guild leader boards. Each win, loss, etc. gets tallied under the guild name. This then creates a Guild ranking system, and then lists the true top PVP guilds. It would require coding, and you could go on an on down this path, with the introduction of PVP only unlock able guild boons, etc. But the idea is solid and when you have no pre-made's effecting Domination leader board, then the top guild is truly the top guild.
4. Leaving matches effect your guild's score and standing. Each time you leave a game, this greatly impacts your guild rating. So not only are you stuck with the timer, but the guild rank suffers a penalty, lowering them in the ranking.
5. Make IWD Dom, PRE-MADE only with an event banner similar to GG. While IWD Dom is on, you can only enter the zone with a party of 5. When the Dom event is over, then of course any one can enter the zone for their dailies, but the winner of the Mother-lode gets a TT or AB boon while flagged for PVP. There are no leaderboards, but this would be the perfect proving ground to pit guild vs guild. I think the reward of just enjoying a true 20-20 all premade match would be intense and enjoyable.
There you go. Please comment, and keep it constructive. Have fun out there.
Let's jump in.
1. Eliminate leader board from Domination. If the mode were TDM or DM, then it makes sense. It's not, it's a 5v5 mode, where team work counts. In match leaderboards are fine, let people rock their ego then, not afterwards.
2. Eliminate pre-made from Domination. This is a big one, but I will make a suggestion where pre-made is a prerequisite in a moment, so please read through. Domination should be all Pug's all the time. This pits guilds against guilds and tests the individual. You would need to represent your guild in each match and this is why.
3. Replace leader board with Guild leader boards. Each win, loss, etc. gets tallied under the guild name. This then creates a Guild ranking system, and then lists the true top PVP guilds. It would require coding, and you could go on an on down this path, with the introduction of PVP only unlock able guild boons, etc. But the idea is solid and when you have no pre-made's effecting Domination leader board, then the top guild is truly the top guild.
4. Leaving matches effect your guild's score and standing. Each time you leave a game, this greatly impacts your guild rating. So not only are you stuck with the timer, but the guild rank suffers a penalty, lowering them in the ranking.
5. Make IWD Dom, PRE-MADE only with an event banner similar to GG. While IWD Dom is on, you can only enter the zone with a party of 5. When the Dom event is over, then of course any one can enter the zone for their dailies, but the winner of the Mother-lode gets a TT or AB boon while flagged for PVP. There are no leaderboards, but this would be the perfect proving ground to pit guild vs guild. I think the reward of just enjoying a true 20-20 all premade match would be intense and enjoyable.
There you go. Please comment, and keep it constructive. Have fun out there.
BladeRunner-Proud member of the BlackCloaks.
Post edited by joncans on
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Comments
I'm not sure what you want to do with people who are queuing with 1-2 friends, if PvP is either all pugs or all premades.
Break L60 into brackets and end the pitiful roflstomping and matches that are over 2 mins in with one team obliterating the other so badly that the match ticks away with 5 people sitting around the campfire waiting to lose.
2)5v5 premades is literally all the end-game this game has, if you want to take that away, then you should probably go back to PVE.
3) Guild leaderboards would neither be fair nor would they be accurate, in the regards that if someone solo q's they cannot carry a team, so the loss would not properly reflect their individual level of skill/gameplay. And this could easily be influenced by Troll comps of 1-2 KV GF's running reflect + red dragon glyph builds + 3cws/HR's.
4) yes there needs to be a penalty for leaving that is far more severe then just a 30min ban from queue's. but there also needs to be something that forces players out of their respective spawns, or they might as well quit, because afking in spawn is the same thing.
5) there is not enough players to achieve this unfortunately, the devs themselves said it many times, the reason why they dont separate the queue's is because there are not enough players and they do not want people to have to wait 30mins for a pvp match. So making an entire zone that requires 5 people from the same guild to enter would never work (look at ice wind dale pvp zones right now) you would be lucky to find 1-2 players in the pvp zones per instance as it is.
Thanks for a very insightful response! One way around this would be:
1. Create another instance channel only available during IWD PVP. It doesn't even have to be publicly accessible, but within the code.
2. Create a visible barrier during the IWD Dom that allows one to 'spectate' but give the: 'You must gather your party" message if they try and enter.
I wasn't saying it was an easy task by any means, just trying to introduce a positive mechanic to a great premise.
Thanks and great feedback! Rebuttal's:
1. In theory: by eliminating pre-made's allows coders to focus on this magical ELO thing. Hopefully it would taper off. Extreme case: raise GS for Domination to 11k+
2. I would disagree. I PVP 90% of my time in game. Trust me, there are many, many, bored level 60's that are looking for something to do. And not saying that you have not experienced IWD Dom, but in every single match I have been in it is either flooded with one or the other side. I have been ganked by roaming partied up Guilds even without the event. My fellow BlackCloaks would certainly jump on this and we are very active. Sometimes we do inter guild battles, so I think something official would certainly entice other like minded players.
2. Yes. Separate queue won't work, due to not enough people, so just make everything PUG. And take a look at matchmaking?
3. Not so sure about this. This is just encouraging people to join 1 or 2 huge PvP guilds, isn't it? Or for the really good PvP'ers to form a mega-guild.
4. No, see 3. However, I'd like them to implement penalties for leaving. I don't know why those don't exist.
5. I don't OPvP, so I can't comment.
I think at this point the PVP guilds are already very established and have 'brand loyalty'. Sure, the newer ones may jump ship, but the current top guilds would stay together.
Also, an easy fix to this is:
1. You do not accrue Guild standing points before 20 matches under the guild name.
2. When you leave a Guild you lose all 'guild standing' (yes keep individual Guild leaderboards for Guild bragging rights) and all boons associated with that Guild's current status.
3. Are placed on a 7 day penalty where you cannot join a guild during this 'freelance depression.'
It represents ELO as far as I know, which is only your wins/losses weighted against the quality of your opponent, it's mainly people misconception of what the leaderboard is that makes it toxic IMO. They list your kills and deaths, but that's not what your ranking is based on.
1. No
2. 2 separate queues, don't make premades walk to IWD.
3. Don't care.
4. If you leave and your team loses it still counts as a loss now, so this is already happening minus the guild thing.
5. I don't believe there are enough PVP players left for that to be viable.
So that in itself makes the leaderboard inaccurate, because you can go 50 matches vs terrible terrible pugs, and go down in ranking. Also the ELO is based on your effectiveness in pvp which is caps kills and deaths, not just wins.
Where are you getting that from?
It's not fun. Premades with guildies sucks. It takes forever to get a match, and when you do it's either a stomp, or we get stomped. Premades in IWD Dom would be better. Just like the GG is when you run with guildies, except without the poor layout and without the horse race of GG.
a dev posted about what ELO is exactly based off of, if you want to find it go back like 4 months to the introduction
then you are either not a max geared player, and or have never done a proper beforehand set up premade. Because as a BiS pvp player who has been playing this game since beta, after 3 or so months PVE became stale and Premades have been the only thing that has been keeping me going and even premades are dieing because most of the good old players quit so other premades are all now
A) not BiS so its a stomp
C) Zero communication so the enemy team is running around like headless chickens (again same outcome of it being a stomp)
The guild Swagmasta is recruiting!! We accept 18k+ with Perfect enchantments!! No noobs allowed!!
What is it with the fascination with having wins/loot all revolve around pure RNG?
Personally I support removing premade queing from domination completely. For a single reason, better matchups. Teamplay is no fun when 90% of matches are stomps.
In conjunction with this, a REAL type of team battle PVP mode needs to be implemented. GG and IWD haven't cut it. Domination is kind of the be all end all of pvp right now. Maybe the solution is to leave domination as is and introduce a NEW pvp mode that's pug friendly.
Way to generalize there, lol.
A: Nope I'm not in 'Bis', check my character sheet, I'm still geared.
B: Nope only Pot I run is the Fey Heroism pot.
C. Nope, we are either on TS or in game chat.
Sorry but you are part of the problem. Players like you 'won' the game. Of course it's going to be boring. I was yelling at a GWF on my team in a Pug with a 19.5 GS, who was asking for 1v1. I told him to nerf himself, or leave the game. People like that are ridiculous because they have way outgeared the content, not to mention 95% of the playerbase.
I and any other player shouldn't have to be BiS to enjoy a pre-made but since this is pretty much who is only going to roll a pre-made, then yeh, it's not fun for anyone.
Battlegrounds: No premades, all PUG queuing, no leader board either.
Arenas: ONLY premade matches, with leader board.
A pug friendly PVP mode is one that requires little skill and is based around RNG. (RNG being the pugs you get)
Look at heroic encounters. Waste of time trash events where everyone zergs and a random person gets the loot on very bad RNG
I think it is dictated by RNG because the PUGs each team gets is widely different each time. Some PUGs are fully geared, some are decently geared and others have 6k gearscore. Some PUGs read chat and know the basics of PVP, other geared PUGs just do whatever they want.
The advantages/disadvantages are RNG based.
I think a lot of player's reported experiences with player matching is that they get paired up randomly with 7k gearscore players, bots etc.
The matchmaking itself is not based on RNG, it is based on ELO. The outcome however is RNG based due to the low population of players queueing for PVP leading into mismatched teammates.
Which is why its most fun...
..and most infuriating as well. :rolleyes:
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'