hell if i know, but no other cw abilities is unresistable and cw was the only one i was really paying attention to
I do think that you offer to add 20% -30% for piercing instead of ingore resinstance is ok. really. But it does make sence to have in then to all of classes not to have unresistanble damage.
I don't think though that any of devs will care to rework it anyway) too much nerf are on HR already plus all this "nerf HR, we hate them" is getting too much.
Is Peircing now only one power that ingores resistance?
no There are some abiltiys in swordmaster tree for GF's and Gwfs that ignore resistances such as ITC and dodges, and TR whirlwind of blades + shocking execution, but those arent passive abilitys like Assailing force was, and what PB is right now.
no There are some abiltiys in swordmaster tree for GF's and Gwfs that ignore resistances such as ITC and dodges, and TR whirlwind of blades + shocking execution, but those arent passive abilitys like Assailing force was, and what PB is right now.
You can easily say Intimidation is passive, if you say the same about Piercing Blade and Assailant. You cast your abilities, and bad things happen that others pretty much can't avoid.
You can easily say Intimidation is passive, if you say the same about Piercing Blade and Assailant. You cast your abilities, and bad things happen that others pretty much can't avoid.
Would be comparable as a "passive" if assailant only procced off of Entangling/Repel.
Assailant was significantly different as it did not depend on damage done to the target. Assailant did damage based on the HP of the target and/or base weapon damage of the CW so was not affected by mitigation AT ALL.
PB, on the other hand, is 40% of the damage done to the target by the triggering power. Any mitigation that reduces the normal damage also reduces the PB damage. And if you dodge the normal attack you get zero damage from PB. So PB damage IS mitigated - just 'at source' rather than 'on application'.
PB, on the other hand, is 40% of the damage done to the target by the triggering power. Any mitigation that reduces the normal damage also reduces the PB damage. And if you dodge the normal attack you get zero damage from PB. So PB damage IS mitigated - just 'at source' rather than 'on application'.
then why i can do dmg to that sharandar lair boss that turns immune to damage at certain phases ?
The first instance is of a Rapid Strike + Piercing Blade hitting me during Stealthed-ITC (immunity)
The second instance is of a Fox Strike + Piercing Blade hitting me normally
If Piercing Blade is intended to go off of post-mitigation damage then the second instance should be doing (0.40)(2812) = 1125 dmg.
It's clearly going off of the pre-mitigation (damage), doing (0.40)(4583) = 1833 dmg
This would explain why Piercing Blade seems to be going through all damage immunities as observed in the first instance of Piercing Blade doing bonus damage (0.40)(1177) = 471 through ITC immunity.
End Result: PB bonus runs off of pre-mitigation damage, ignores all resistance, and does more than 40% of the resisted source damage.
The only Combat HR I have is still levelling, and has been for months. I only play her every now and again. My other HR is an Archer and I haven't even used him in PvP since Mod 4 launched.
Try a different ad hominem. Maybe you'll be more successful with it.
The first instance is of a Rapid Strike + Piercing Blade hitting me during Stealthed-ITC (immunity)
The second instance is of a Fox Strike + Piercing Blade hitting me normally
If Piercing Blade is intended to go off of post-mitigation damage then the second instance should be doing (0.40)(2812) = 1125 dmg.
It's clearly going off of the pre-mitigation (damage), doing (0.40)(4583) = 1833 dmg
This would explain why Piercing Blade seems to be going through all damage immunities as observed in the first instance of Piercing Blade doing bonus damage (0.40)(1177) = 471 through ITC immunity.
End Result: PB bonus runs off of pre-mitigation damage, ignores all resistance, and does more than 40% of the resisted source damage.
That's not how I understood it to have been designed, so no - I'd say that isn't WAI. Although the tooltip wording is slightly vague it definitely states 40% additional damage whereas what you're seeing is a flat 40% damage proc.
I'll fire up my L50 Combat HR and run some parses but that combat log entry looks pretty conclusive.
you dont think - Piercing dmg is unresistable dmg, but where does it come from?? 40% from NORMAL damage.
witch mean that the piercing dmg is coming from resistable dmg.
like if your dmg was suppused to be 1k, but becouse the GF it was 100 then the piercing dmg will do 40 dmg only.
understood? now stop crying..
Wrong. It's calculated of raw damage the ability deals. If you hit GF with 10k hit, and he receives 2k, Piercing Blade woud hit him for 4k piercing damage.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Yup - confirmed with some parses. Shouldn't be working that way IMO.
Would be better to either have it trigger off damage received or replace with a feat that adds to AP similar to the SW class feature that does the same.
I'd also prefer Wilds Medicine to be replaced with a feat that adds 5/10/15/20/25 to Deflection Severity.
From what I've seen, piercing damage accounts for approximately 25% of an HR's damage.
For something that skill-less, it should definitely be toned down. That amount of damage should be given to an encounter that actually requires some skill/practice/experience/brain/timing/something to land.
An elitist p2w DC talking about skill-less? Go FotM build and glyphs and just stand there, yeah, as I have said before. You have no right to ever complain about anything. And if PB does 25% of an HR's damage, that is just evidence that HR needs an overall buff in dmg.
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
Yup - confirmed with some parses. Shouldn't be working that way IMO.
Would be better to either have it trigger off damage received or replace with a feat that adds to AP similar to the SW class feature that does the same.
I'd also prefer Wilds Medicine to be replaced with a feat that adds 5/10/15/20/25 to Deflection Severity.
Actually, I did write that a couple of times, and I was quoted once. Basically, a lower Strength T2 Combat feat that gives a 5s duration, 10-15% MaxHP over that time 'Burst Heal' that cannot stack (instead of Fluid Hunter), the T4 Lifesteal Feat moved to T3 (and probably boosted in magnitude a bit) instead of current Medicine, and a redone 'Fluid Hunter' as T4 that gives 4/8/12/16/20% Deflect Severity.
Plus the same ICD Mechanic that Stormstep Action (Stormwarden) has put on Pathfinder HR's Pathfinders' Action.
It looks like when an HR is applying damage to someone that's immune (like if they're dodging), it uses the full damage without DR and than takes 40% of that and applies it.
Don't forget there are other undodgable damage sources in the game, the worst being icy roots (cc and damage can't be dodged).
At least with piercing blade, there's a reason for it in the tooltip. Nothing in the icy roots tooltip would lead one to believe it's undodgable. Combine that with an assailing proc and a stormspell proc and you're looking at a ton of potential damage from range that you can't defend against.
In any case it's pretty clear the OP's claim of a 12k Piercing Blade proc is way off base.
It looks like when an HR is applying damage to someone that's immune (like if they're dodging), it uses the full damage without DR and than takes 40% of that and applies it.
Don't forget there are other undodgable damage sources in the game, the worst being icy roots (cc and damage can't be dodged).
At least with piercing blade, there's a reason for it in the tooltip. Nothing in the icy roots tooltip would lead one to believe it's undodgable. Combine that with an assailing proc and a stormspell proc and you're looking at a ton of potential damage from range that you can't defend against.
In any case it's pretty clear the OP's claim of a 12k Piercing Blade proc is way off base.
Except this isn't about Icy Roots. It's about HR Piercing Blades... and from the looks of it, currently it's simply not working as intended.
I've always thought HRs were more efficient melees than TRs, and on average their powers hurt a lot more than any TR encounters save a few.. and for some reason no matter how well I time my moves, it always lands bullchit amounts of melee damage on me... and now I finally know why.
With a trait like that.. HR melee powers are either AoE (easy to hit), or by itself a gap-closer (again, easy to hit), or both.. and on top of that they deal percentage damage based on unmitigated base damage, so (theoretically) you can have 100% damage mitigation and shrug of a 10k hit with 0 damage, and you'd still be damaged for 4k.
So basically the HR's a better ranged than a TR, a better melee than a TR, has better attack damage than a TR, has undodgeable attacks unlike a TR, better deflection than a TR, has better DR and other defensive traits than a TR, has better self healing than a TR, moves faster than a TR, has better utilities than a TR, has better CCs than a TR.. with the only thing worse than a TR not being able to enter stealth more frequently, and shorter, at that.
Ay caramba, bless those TRs who'd ever think of going up against a HR.
:rolleyes:
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Except this isn't about Icy Roots. It's about HR Piercing Blades... and from the looks of it, currently it's simply not working as intended.
It's doing 40% of damage before DR. The tooltip doesn't specify that it shouldn't.
Unlike icy roots which says nothing about about being undodagable (both the damage and the root), or whirlwind of blades which says nothing about damage being undefensible.
If anything piercing blade is more WAI than those skills.
It's doing 40% of damage before DR. The tooltip doesn't specify that it shouldn't.
Unlike icy roots which says nothing about about being undodagable (both the damage and the root), or whirlwind of blades which says nothing about damage being undefensible.
If anything piercing blade is more WAI than those skills.
Except this isn't about Icy Roots. It's about HR Piercing Blades... and from the looks of it, currently it's simply not working as intended. :rolleyes:
Peircing Blade is WAI! Whoever states something different is either lying or doesnt read tooltips and doesnt know the history of that feat. Let me enlighten all of you.
"Melee attacks deal an additional 40% damage as Piercing damage. Piercing damage is physical damage that cannot be resisted or deflected."
This tooltip clarifies it by itself.
This tooltip is also no mistake, because of this:
We are making some adjustments to both Ranged and Melee hunters. Ranged Hunters are doing too much damage, but Melee hunters aren't quite getting into the attack and damage cadence we wanted so we are making a handful of changes. These should hit in the next week or two.
Combat:
Piercing Blade: Now deals 4/8/12/16/20% Piercing damage (up from 3/6/9/12/15%).
With the buffed piercing damage (which is unresistable bonus damage) and the easier to use cadence of Blade Hurricane it should be far easier to cause bursts of damage.
Thank you for the continued feedback everyone! Combat Rangers continue to underperform where we want them to be so we are buffing two of their key damage dealing feats so that they can make up a far more substantive portion of your damage.
Hunter Ranger: Combat: Piercing Blade: Now deals an additional 8/16/24/32/40% damage as Piercing Damage (up from 4/8/12/16/20%) Hunter Ranger: Combat: Blade Hurricane: Flurry strikes can now properly activate Piercing Blade.
So, keep that in mind. We can discuss if PB needs a tone down. We can also argue about its unresistable nature, but then u have to mention powers from other classes too (Icys, GF daily, WoB).
BUT DONT COME HERE AND SAY PB IS NOT WAI!
Because it is!
The whole title of the thread is irrelevant and misleading. And some of u just have fallen into that trap of ignorance.
All this doesnt mean a thing. In the near future u may read :"This ability did much more than we intended!" I;m sure that you dig enough you;ll see that this happen before.
We are only telling our own opinions about this and it wont change based just because on that.
All this doesnt mean a thing. In the near future u may read :"This ability did much more than we intended!" I;m sure that you dig enough you;ll see that this happen before.
We are only telling our own opinions about this and it wont change based just because on that.
Don't forget there are other undodgable damage sources in the game, the worst being icy roots (cc and damage can't be dodged).
Icy Rays can be dodged. But you have to dodge the mark and not the rays themselves. This is next to impossible to do unless by blind luck because casting the mark has almost no 'tell'. But it is theoretically possible to dodge.
It's doing 40% of damage before DR. The tooltip doesn't specify that it shouldn't.
Unlike icy roots which says nothing about about being undodagable (both the damage and the root), or whirlwind of blades which says nothing about damage being undefensible.
If anything piercing blade is more WAI than those skills.
Oh come on, ham.. really? I mean for real?
Both you and I know that's a really, really cheap-shot excuse... that the "the wording used to describe the effect [technically] does not rule out the possibility the damage might be based on unmitigated levels"..
If you're willing to drag in "other powers" to try and cloud the fact that this is about the HR and how Piercing Blades works in an appalling manner (to the receiving end), let me counter it with the fact a lot of other powers have been nerfed despite obviously WAI.
Technically, since the Blue Dragon glyphs didn't say anything about an ICD. It's not like it was bugged or anything. The wording wasn't confusing in any way. It was WORKING AS INTENDED. Except unfortunately, it just so turns out that the "INTENT itself was wrong with that particular <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of an enchant, didn't it
A damage undodgeable and inevitable, and at the same time unmitigated? I think the "intent" is broke.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Icy Rays can be dodged. But you have to dodge the mark and not the rays themselves. This is next to impossible to do unless by blind luck because casting the mark has almost no 'tell'. But it is theoretically possible to dodge.
Have you ever done it? I've never done it and I've never seen anyone do it whilie playing my CW.
Btw, I made a seperate thread to whine about icy rays.
Both you and I know that's a really, really cheap-shot excuse... that the "the wording used to describe the effect [technically] does not rule out the possibility the damage might be based on unmitigated levels"..
If you're willing to drag in "other powers" to try and cloud the fact that this is about the HR and how Piercing Blades works in an appalling manner (to the receiving end), let me counter it with the fact a lot of other powers have been nerfed despite obviously WAI.
Technically, since the Blue Dragon glyphs didn't say anything about an ICD. It's not like it was bugged or anything. The wording wasn't confusing in any way. It was WORKING AS INTENDED. Except unfortunately, it just so turns out that the "INTENT itself was wrong with that particular <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of an enchant, didn't it
A damage undodgeable and inevitable, and at the same time unmitigated? I think the "intent" is broke.
The thing is, besides piercing blade, HR doesn't get much of a boost to melee (which HR generally really sucks at without any boost). It's basically replacing feats which gave tons of crit and other boosts.
So clearly it is intended to be a meaningful boost. And obviously people's claims of 12k procs are just ridiculous.
A damage undodgeable and inevitable, and at the same time unmitigated? I think the "intent" is broke.
Comments
I do think that you offer to add 20% -30% for piercing instead of ingore resinstance is ok. really. But it does make sence to have in then to all of classes not to have unresistanble damage.
I don't think though that any of devs will care to rework it anyway) too much nerf are on HR already plus all this "nerf HR, we hate them" is getting too much.
no There are some abiltiys in swordmaster tree for GF's and Gwfs that ignore resistances such as ITC and dodges, and TR whirlwind of blades + shocking execution, but those arent passive abilitys like Assailing force was, and what PB is right now.
witch mean that the piercing dmg is coming from resistable dmg.
like if your dmg was suppused to be 1k, but becouse the GF it was 100 then the piercing dmg will do 40 dmg only.
understood? now stop crying..
You can easily say Intimidation is passive, if you say the same about Piercing Blade and Assailant. You cast your abilities, and bad things happen that others pretty much can't avoid.
Would be comparable as a "passive" if assailant only procced off of Entangling/Repel.
PB, on the other hand, is 40% of the damage done to the target by the triggering power. Any mitigation that reduces the normal damage also reduces the PB damage. And if you dodge the normal attack you get zero damage from PB. So PB damage IS mitigated - just 'at source' rather than 'on application'.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
then why i can do dmg to that sharandar lair boss that turns immune to damage at certain phases ?
he ill just defend hes OP class no matter what
More testing required.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
The first instance is of a Rapid Strike + Piercing Blade hitting me during Stealthed-ITC (immunity)
The second instance is of a Fox Strike + Piercing Blade hitting me normally
If Piercing Blade is intended to go off of post-mitigation damage then the second instance should be doing (0.40)(2812) = 1125 dmg.
It's clearly going off of the pre-mitigation (damage), doing (0.40)(4583) = 1833 dmg
This would explain why Piercing Blade seems to be going through all damage immunities as observed in the first instance of Piercing Blade doing bonus damage (0.40)(1177) = 471 through ITC immunity.
End Result: PB bonus runs off of pre-mitigation damage, ignores all resistance, and does more than 40% of the resisted source damage.
Try a different ad hominem. Maybe you'll be more successful with it.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I'll fire up my L50 Combat HR and run some parses but that combat log entry looks pretty conclusive.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Wrong. It's calculated of raw damage the ability deals. If you hit GF with 10k hit, and he receives 2k, Piercing Blade woud hit him for 4k piercing damage.
Would be better to either have it trigger off damage received or replace with a feat that adds to AP similar to the SW class feature that does the same.
I'd also prefer Wilds Medicine to be replaced with a feat that adds 5/10/15/20/25 to Deflection Severity.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
An elitist p2w DC talking about skill-less? Go FotM build and glyphs and just stand there, yeah, as I have said before. You have no right to ever complain about anything. And if PB does 25% of an HR's damage, that is just evidence that HR needs an overall buff in dmg.
Actually, I did write that a couple of times, and I was quoted once. Basically, a lower Strength T2 Combat feat that gives a 5s duration, 10-15% MaxHP over that time 'Burst Heal' that cannot stack (instead of Fluid Hunter), the T4 Lifesteal Feat moved to T3 (and probably boosted in magnitude a bit) instead of current Medicine, and a redone 'Fluid Hunter' as T4 that gives 4/8/12/16/20% Deflect Severity.
Plus the same ICD Mechanic that Stormstep Action (Stormwarden) has put on Pathfinder HR's Pathfinders' Action.
Don't forget there are other undodgable damage sources in the game, the worst being icy roots (cc and damage can't be dodged).
At least with piercing blade, there's a reason for it in the tooltip. Nothing in the icy roots tooltip would lead one to believe it's undodgable. Combine that with an assailing proc and a stormspell proc and you're looking at a ton of potential damage from range that you can't defend against.
In any case it's pretty clear the OP's claim of a 12k Piercing Blade proc is way off base.
Except this isn't about Icy Roots. It's about HR Piercing Blades... and from the looks of it, currently it's simply not working as intended.
I've always thought HRs were more efficient melees than TRs, and on average their powers hurt a lot more than any TR encounters save a few.. and for some reason no matter how well I time my moves, it always lands bullchit amounts of melee damage on me... and now I finally know why.
With a trait like that.. HR melee powers are either AoE (easy to hit), or by itself a gap-closer (again, easy to hit), or both.. and on top of that they deal percentage damage based on unmitigated base damage, so (theoretically) you can have 100% damage mitigation and shrug of a 10k hit with 0 damage, and you'd still be damaged for 4k.
So basically the HR's a better ranged than a TR, a better melee than a TR, has better attack damage than a TR, has undodgeable attacks unlike a TR, better deflection than a TR, has better DR and other defensive traits than a TR, has better self healing than a TR, moves faster than a TR, has better utilities than a TR, has better CCs than a TR.. with the only thing worse than a TR not being able to enter stealth more frequently, and shorter, at that.
Ay caramba, bless those TRs who'd ever think of going up against a HR.
:rolleyes:
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It's doing 40% of damage before DR. The tooltip doesn't specify that it shouldn't.
Unlike icy roots which says nothing about about being undodagable (both the damage and the root), or whirlwind of blades which says nothing about damage being undefensible.
If anything piercing blade is more WAI than those skills.
/10x chars
This tooltip clarifies it by itself.
This tooltip is also no mistake, because of this:
Furthermore Gentle states it:
Another while Gentle explains why:
So, keep that in mind. We can discuss if PB needs a tone down. We can also argue about its unresistable nature, but then u have to mention powers from other classes too (Icys, GF daily, WoB).
BUT DONT COME HERE AND SAY PB IS NOT WAI!
Because it is!
The whole title of the thread is irrelevant and misleading. And some of u just have fallen into that trap of ignorance.
Doesn't negate the fact that it's too much.
Maybe it's WAI that everybody in PvP rolls a 20+ Con char, with Legendary +4 Con belt, and plays with a GF with KV and a DC.
This way, Piercing Blade is nothing but a tickle to you
All this doesnt mean a thing. In the near future u may read :"This ability did much more than we intended!" I;m sure that you dig enough you;ll see that this happen before.
We are only telling our own opinions about this and it wont change based just because on that.
This right here.
But that says as much about the bad place the TR is in as it does about the HR.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Oh come on, ham.. really? I mean for real?
Both you and I know that's a really, really cheap-shot excuse... that the "the wording used to describe the effect [technically] does not rule out the possibility the damage might be based on unmitigated levels"..
If you're willing to drag in "other powers" to try and cloud the fact that this is about the HR and how Piercing Blades works in an appalling manner (to the receiving end), let me counter it with the fact a lot of other powers have been nerfed despite obviously WAI.
Technically, since the Blue Dragon glyphs didn't say anything about an ICD. It's not like it was bugged or anything. The wording wasn't confusing in any way. It was WORKING AS INTENDED. Except unfortunately, it just so turns out that the "INTENT itself was wrong with that particular <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of an enchant, didn't it
A damage undodgeable and inevitable, and at the same time unmitigated? I think the "intent" is broke.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Have you ever done it? I've never done it and I've never seen anyone do it whilie playing my CW.
Btw, I made a seperate thread to whine about icy rays.
The thing is, besides piercing blade, HR doesn't get much of a boost to melee (which HR generally really sucks at without any boost). It's basically replacing feats which gave tons of crit and other boosts.
So clearly it is intended to be a meaningful boost. And obviously people's claims of 12k procs are just ridiculous.
You talking about Icy Rays?