I say to put a stop to 3rd party sites selling money or causing havoc with the game economy, there is a simple solution. Do not allow trading at all between anyone but the characters on the persons account. Have it to were you sale the Items at a set rate depending upon the supply and demand of the items that are soled. So the market is flooded with an item the price drops to a bottom number or can rise if the said item it in high demand. No direct sale of an item at all to other players only to a vendor or a auctioneer that is ran by the game and the economy of the game is controlled as I noted above. No more gold spammers, no more people trying to sell something for inflated prices. Now for those who like to play the market and such well they loose but I really can here to play a game and not try and work and exchange of goods. Also if you buy it its bound to your account no matter what so this goes for everything from items you buy for anything with or with out zen. Ok start the hate now
I understand the problem of modern MMORPG like Neverwinter.
You simply has the problem that Bots, Hacks and Glitches are destroying the game expirence itself and over all this you must make money with the game.
Spoken openly, i have no problem if some Stuff is bound to character or account, but your problems will increase. We the players are used to, to make our own fortune, to make money with the game (Gold/Astral Diamonds) to fullfill our own desires we set in Neverwinter.
If you make ALL items restricted (bound by account/character) no one will play it because they are bound by your set of rules. I saw this in an former popular mmorpg titel too.
Warhammer Online had never an economy. No one could trade because all was bind to character only a few items was "free". It has an auctionhouse and it was filled with level 1-10 <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because it was the only stuff that wasn't bound. Maybe not the major point why it went offline, but one small step forward the crag it should fall.
If you keep going it will happen to Neverwinter too. Because the game will lack in it's flexibilty to earn stuff.
Look what a mess you created by make the coalscent wards of the Trade Bar Merchant account bound. The economy to trade AD to Zen is stuck, the prices in the AH are spinning. With only the coalscent wards you nearly killed the economy and you can't say anymore the game is free2play because the Freeplayer cannot buy stuff in the Zen-Shop.
And now you load the grudge of a mass of players that make their money with selling and reselling of keys. I mean, how stupid can someone be? Ofcourse a mass of player will leave this game. Okey, maybe some of them never spent a Cent in Neverwinter, but hell, every lost player is one too much.
I don't know the exact datas but to me it seems that more and more players are leaving Neverwinter because YOU keep them restricted and new players CAN'T fill this gap not only because there are only a few new members every day, most likely the newbies have no chance to grow up and play with the old grown ones.
Instead of make the right choice to ban some peoples for a few days and delete the hacked stuff (literally clean the mess and ground the child that makes this mess for one whole week). I mean, what about sueing this 3rd Party sides? There must be an law that they using your program illegal to make their own real money...
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
EXACTLY. We used keys as a way to motivate players or give officers in our guild a fun gift for advancing. This is soooo booooooooo
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arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
edited July 2014
It's funny our guild was discussing this the other day, there are a heap of way's they could have gone I thought locking Zen store items to the ZAX rate so the max sell price in the AH couldn't exceed ZAX rate would have been another option.
Doesn't really effect me either way, but I can feel for the people who legitimately invested in keys
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
Well now I have ZERO reason to buy Zen. I already have a rank 3 mount and all the companions I want.
How did this give you a reason to buy zen in the first place? I you want ad from your zen, use the exchange. If you want keys to use, well you can still buy and use them with zen. Confused...
This has already dropped the exchange backlog by almost a million. Some fixes though, they still need a good AD sink. I suggest selling more cosmetic choices for AD. I.e: Transmuting armor into costumes for an AD cost, selling a different zen costume every month for AD, and selling coal wards for AD. Selling coal wards for AD on the wonderous bazaar, would create a huge ad sink, would provide players with needed wards without forcing them to pay, and it would prevent people from buying coal wards for zen, and selling them on the AH above the exchange rate (which is probably one of the few remaining ways to abuse the system)
0
vampirecavyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 55Arc User
edited July 2014
... Grh. I'm personally totally unaffected by this, but... I honestly feel like the reasoning given is not the true reason why this change is being done. Cryptic overall has a mixed record when it comes to dealing with scammers in this game (a friend of mine almost quit after getting hacked and more or less ignored by support), and them making such a drastic change that if they'd thought for any amount of time would make them KNOW it would be received by anger, just... doesn't sound believable to me.
If this ends up fixing the AD exchange like some people in this thread predicted, that's fine, but... I wish they'd have told us that instead. People would still be upset, but the current explanation given kind of feels insulting to me.
How did this give you a reason to buy zen in the first place? I you want ad from your zen, use the exchange. If you want keys to use, well you can still buy and use them with zen. Confused...
They were a trading medium. Most folks selling stuff on the trade channel did so for keys. Making them BoP nullifies that and thus you can only buy them if you want to open up those rip off boxes.
Not a single **** was given. Never bought keys with real money, never will. Never cared about Lockboxes either. The number of lockboxes I opened since beta can be counted in my hands.
I wonder what the trading "Currency" will be now though.
My suggestion, since you admins decided to screw Coalescent wards and Keys over. Why don't you make them drop from dungeons? Would be a nice little addition. And it would also encourage PVP-Only players like me who despise dungeons to do them a little more often.
If this is really about stopping RMT outside the game then why not put an AD vendor selling BOP keys, or at least uncap the exchange. What should it matter to you how much we are willing to pay for zen with our in game money? We work hard for it and if you take our ability to spend it how we want what do we really have left to work for?
Right now there is 3,099,977,000 AD sitting in escrow waiting to trade ad 500. Thats a LOT of unhappy people who DO NOT use third party vendors.
how is it hurting legit players? u have to wait for zen for 2 weeks after that economy will stablise , so whats the problem , the only players its hurting are those who buy keys and then sell it off AH
how is it hurting legit players? u have to wait for zen for 2 weeks after that economy will stablise , so whats the problem , the only players its hurting are those who buy keys and then sell it off AH
Pretty much this except the job is only half done. They need to make c. wards bound now too so the economy can be fixed.
how is it hurting legit players? u have to wait for zen for 2 weeks after that economy will stablise , so whats the problem , the only players its hurting are those who buy keys and then sell it off AH
It is also hurting the player that does not want to buy Zen but instead uses AD to buy keys. It also hits the trading aspect of the game; keys for gold and such like.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
It is also hurting the player that does not want to buy Zen but instead uses AD to buy keys. It also hits the trading aspect of the game; keys for gold and such like.
You can use ad to buy keys now, it just takes a little longer but you get a better price considering they were asking above 500:1 for keys. Keys for gold? Sorry but when people want gold that badly something is fishy. Gold is only useful for unsocketing, potions, and injury kits. If you don't have the gold for all that from just playing the game something fishy is going on.
how is it hurting legit players? u have to wait for zen for 2 weeks after that economy will stablise , so whats the problem , the only players its hurting are those who buy keys and then sell it off AH
It is not just people who buy up keys then sell on AH for profit that use keys as currency. Everyone used to recognize them as currency and as possible trade material for other goods. Anyone who was using it for this purpose and had keys that they did not sell or planned to trade later are now losing lots of AD by being forced to open boxes with them rather than sell them.
You can use ad to buy keys now, it just takes a little longer but you get a better price considering they were asking above 500:1 for keys. Keys for gold? Sorry but when people want gold that badly something is fishy. Gold is only useful for unsocketing, potions, and injury kits. If you don't have the gold for all that from just playing the game something fishy is going on.
I know a few full-on PVP players that have gold issues because they did not level via quests and outside of dailies for boons they rarely come across drops that can be sold to a vendor. Swapping out enchants on your gear can be an expensive exercise if you do a complete overhaul. I once blew around 15 - 20 gold in one go reworking my character.
And as the above poster pointed out, it wasn't just gold. A stack of keys for an enchant (well, at least when enchants were still decently priced).
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
The best way to get rid of third party sites is to get rid of the players using them. Why not just perma ban said players? Perhaps losing all that money and work might make them think the next time they play.
These players do not help the game at all. They do not contribute financially to Cryptic or PWE. They are actively encouraging the currency black market.
Because they'll just make new accounts and come right back. Site ban them and they'll use a VPN to get around that. You can -not- stop these people from getting into the game and attempting to do whatever business they have in mind (which is often against the TOS or outright illegal but international law can get weird).
What you -can- do is make it difficult for them to operate and hope that, eventually, that some or all of them will simply move on to greener pastures. I've seen games do this by taking measures against botting, limiting a group's ability to monopolize good drop points, limiting access to various forms of messaging based on character level, or simply making the service nearly worthless by making in-game money easy to come by.
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ivey558Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited July 2014
this will drastically reduce the amount of sales for 3rd party sites. good stuff pwe =]
The people claiming this will drive prices down don't know mmo economy very well. Something else will take the keys place or the prices for other commodities will increase. That is how most player driven economies in mmos work. This will only hurt the economy and players in the long run.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2014
PWE won't be able to compete w/ 3rd party sites since those don't really have the kind of overhead that PWE does. The solution, IMO, is to put better checks into the game as far as how these transfers go. For instance, someone listing some random "worthless" item on the Ah for 100's of thousands or millions of AD, or these unauthorized Hero of the North and other packs, need to be addressed. Putting in a hard cap on what Zen store items can be sold for on the AH, (so it doesn't exceed their AD:Z equivalent price), would be good starts.
Throwing the players a bone, like maybe upping the chance to get a BtA coalescent ward from the 7-day invocation box, or offering a BtA version of coal wards in the Zen market for a much reduced price, would also help.
Other small steps would help alleviate people's frustration at being hit over the head by the RNG - like adding a BtA version of the companion to all CtA vendors, or by offering white, green, or blue versions of these limited time event items, (at much more reasonable prices), will certainly foster more player support, (I'm looking at you, 15-epic-asset-alchemist!).
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
The game economy cannot be stable as long as the incoming AD is bigger than the outgoing AD.
An essential part of draining AD is the 10% fee on AH.
Basically the keys evolved as a highly liquid alternate currency bypassing the AD drain. Stopping the key trading should (at least temporarily) direct more trades to the AH and help stabilize the economy, bringing Zen/AD ratio back down.
This looks like a good and necessary move to me.
Making problems for the RMT sites is a good bonus of course
This should not hurt key sales very much, the base factor for key sales should anyways be the amount of lockboxes opened, and there is no reason that should change as a consequence of this.
:mad: And You've been NERFED :mad: *TM* Cryptic Studios
Anyway , I hope it does balance the AD market a bit.
I'm all for balancing that market and making it feasable to actually get zen from your AD.
However; As of right now I believe this hurts. I think ingame loot from boxes is going to skyrocket in price, and trading r* gem for keys to get lock box loot is now severally nerfed. Idk how it will effect things in the long run. who does? but The whole Ward+gem=key's=gear x companion + fashion items equation has been thrown out of wack.
I hope you guys send out an ingame mail notifying people of this change, and perhaps a reconciliation package for those who have spent $100+ on your products (and could retroactivly be being punished now) with something (Perhaps Retaining token, red rubies, companion upgrade tokens, Colecent wards, profession packs... to take the Bitterness taste out of our mouths and keep the player base from rage quiting. ) just saying a little Public Rep couldn't hurt your case. I know I for one would be pissed beyond belief if I had just bought 100.00 worth of zen and you just made them BOA without much notice. ( I understand the lack of notice for the most part, if you caught these guys with their pants down and keys still on their accounts; you might make a big enough hole in their small business budget to sink them)
Not sure if this was pointed out, but the most likely reason why about a million AD was withdrawn from the ZAX is because those people, more than likely, took them out to buy keys from the AH with. So making the keys BoA didn't really solve the AD to Zen problem. All it did was take a little bit of AD off the ZAX for a little bit.
"If you're going to ride my HAMSTER... At least pull my hair" Taking the trash out, one badguy at a time. "Satisfaction guaranteed or twice your trash back."
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
None of us here are on the other side of the desk so we don't know what pressures caused the decisions of the Devs. Do I agree with everything the Devs do? Definitely not (case in point being GF and DC issues). Counterpoint - I don't think I'd like to be one of the Devs as they get very little credit and lots of complaints.
Walk a mile . . .
I will continue to play until it is no longer fun at which point I'll find something else to eat up my free time. This is a game folks, not a savings plan or an employment opportunity. In-game currency is a means to an end. Now that the keys are bound, find another way to fund your adventures.
I can't understand why some people get upset and rant - you don't HAVE to play NW. It's not like we're all stuck in a room behind bars being forced to logon. Take a deep breath, move forward and see how this plays out.
Fruitful discussion is based on differing viewpoints, not character assaults.
I can't understand why some people get upset and rant - you don't HAVE to play NW. It's not like we're all stuck in a room behind bars being forced to logon. Take a deep breath, move forward and see how this plays out.
Personally I'm stubborn and stick with games longer than I should. I took a lot of effort and time to get to the point where I have stable AD generation that I don't have to worry about being short on AD. It seems kind of a waste to work to get to that point only to not be able to make much use out of it. Cryptic could easily make us want to continue to play, but instead they continually make changes to hurt players and release buggy content that either isn't done to the extent people want, or isn't what we want at all. A dungeon with decent BoE equipment such as a newer equivalent of CN would've kept a lot of players happy, but instead they have to lower drop rates and character bind most of the loot making it unrewarding, enjoyable and not worth replaying.
Might have to roll a warlock, do the mod 4 stuff and accept that Cryptic aren't going to live up to my previous expectations.
None of us here are on the other side of the desk so we don't know what pressures caused the decisions of the Devs. Do I agree with everything the Devs do? Definitely not (case in point being GF and DC issues). Counterpoint - I don't think I'd like to be one of the Devs as they get very little credit and lots of complaints.
Walk a mile . . .
I will continue to play until it is no longer fun at which point I'll find something else to eat up my free time. This is a game folks, not a savings plan or an employment opportunity. In-game currency is a means to an end. Now that the keys are bound, find another way to fund your adventures.
I can't understand why some people get upset and rant - you don't HAVE to play NW. It's not like we're all stuck in a room behind bars being forced to logon. Take a deep breath, move forward and see how this plays out.
Fruitful discussion is based on differing viewpoints, not character assaults.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Comments
You simply has the problem that Bots, Hacks and Glitches are destroying the game expirence itself and over all this you must make money with the game.
Spoken openly, i have no problem if some Stuff is bound to character or account, but your problems will increase. We the players are used to, to make our own fortune, to make money with the game (Gold/Astral Diamonds) to fullfill our own desires we set in Neverwinter.
If you make ALL items restricted (bound by account/character) no one will play it because they are bound by your set of rules. I saw this in an former popular mmorpg titel too.
Warhammer Online had never an economy. No one could trade because all was bind to character only a few items was "free". It has an auctionhouse and it was filled with level 1-10 <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because it was the only stuff that wasn't bound. Maybe not the major point why it went offline, but one small step forward the crag it should fall.
If you keep going it will happen to Neverwinter too. Because the game will lack in it's flexibilty to earn stuff.
Look what a mess you created by make the coalscent wards of the Trade Bar Merchant account bound. The economy to trade AD to Zen is stuck, the prices in the AH are spinning. With only the coalscent wards you nearly killed the economy and you can't say anymore the game is free2play because the Freeplayer cannot buy stuff in the Zen-Shop.
And now you load the grudge of a mass of players that make their money with selling and reselling of keys. I mean, how stupid can someone be? Ofcourse a mass of player will leave this game. Okey, maybe some of them never spent a Cent in Neverwinter, but hell, every lost player is one too much.
I don't know the exact datas but to me it seems that more and more players are leaving Neverwinter because YOU keep them restricted and new players CAN'T fill this gap not only because there are only a few new members every day, most likely the newbies have no chance to grow up and play with the old grown ones.
Instead of make the right choice to ban some peoples for a few days and delete the hacked stuff (literally clean the mess and ground the child that makes this mess for one whole week). I mean, what about sueing this 3rd Party sides? There must be an law that they using your program illegal to make their own real money...
Doesn't really effect me either way, but I can feel for the people who legitimately invested in keys
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
How did this give you a reason to buy zen in the first place? I you want ad from your zen, use the exchange. If you want keys to use, well you can still buy and use them with zen. Confused...
This has already dropped the exchange backlog by almost a million. Some fixes though, they still need a good AD sink. I suggest selling more cosmetic choices for AD. I.e: Transmuting armor into costumes for an AD cost, selling a different zen costume every month for AD, and selling coal wards for AD. Selling coal wards for AD on the wonderous bazaar, would create a huge ad sink, would provide players with needed wards without forcing them to pay, and it would prevent people from buying coal wards for zen, and selling them on the AH above the exchange rate (which is probably one of the few remaining ways to abuse the system)
If this ends up fixing the AD exchange like some people in this thread predicted, that's fine, but... I wish they'd have told us that instead. People would still be upset, but the current explanation given kind of feels insulting to me.
They were a trading medium. Most folks selling stuff on the trade channel did so for keys. Making them BoP nullifies that and thus you can only buy them if you want to open up those rip off boxes.
I wonder what the trading "Currency" will be now though.
My suggestion, since you admins decided to screw Coalescent wards and Keys over. Why don't you make them drop from dungeons? Would be a nice little addition. And it would also encourage PVP-Only players like me who despise dungeons to do them a little more often.
Right now there is 3,099,977,000 AD sitting in escrow waiting to trade ad 500. Thats a LOT of unhappy people who DO NOT use third party vendors.
It is also hurting the player that does not want to buy Zen but instead uses AD to buy keys. It also hits the trading aspect of the game; keys for gold and such like.
You can use ad to buy keys now, it just takes a little longer but you get a better price considering they were asking above 500:1 for keys. Keys for gold? Sorry but when people want gold that badly something is fishy. Gold is only useful for unsocketing, potions, and injury kits. If you don't have the gold for all that from just playing the game something fishy is going on.
It is not just people who buy up keys then sell on AH for profit that use keys as currency. Everyone used to recognize them as currency and as possible trade material for other goods. Anyone who was using it for this purpose and had keys that they did not sell or planned to trade later are now losing lots of AD by being forced to open boxes with them rather than sell them.
I know a few full-on PVP players that have gold issues because they did not level via quests and outside of dailies for boons they rarely come across drops that can be sold to a vendor. Swapping out enchants on your gear can be an expensive exercise if you do a complete overhaul. I once blew around 15 - 20 gold in one go reworking my character.
And as the above poster pointed out, it wasn't just gold. A stack of keys for an enchant (well, at least when enchants were still decently priced).
Because they'll just make new accounts and come right back. Site ban them and they'll use a VPN to get around that. You can -not- stop these people from getting into the game and attempting to do whatever business they have in mind (which is often against the TOS or outright illegal but international law can get weird).
What you -can- do is make it difficult for them to operate and hope that, eventually, that some or all of them will simply move on to greener pastures. I've seen games do this by taking measures against botting, limiting a group's ability to monopolize good drop points, limiting access to various forms of messaging based on character level, or simply making the service nearly worthless by making in-game money easy to come by.
Throwing the players a bone, like maybe upping the chance to get a BtA coalescent ward from the 7-day invocation box, or offering a BtA version of coal wards in the Zen market for a much reduced price, would also help.
Other small steps would help alleviate people's frustration at being hit over the head by the RNG - like adding a BtA version of the companion to all CtA vendors, or by offering white, green, or blue versions of these limited time event items, (at much more reasonable prices), will certainly foster more player support, (I'm looking at you, 15-epic-asset-alchemist!).
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
An essential part of draining AD is the 10% fee on AH.
Basically the keys evolved as a highly liquid alternate currency bypassing the AD drain. Stopping the key trading should (at least temporarily) direct more trades to the AH and help stabilize the economy, bringing Zen/AD ratio back down.
This looks like a good and necessary move to me.
Making problems for the RMT sites is a good bonus of course
This should not hurt key sales very much, the base factor for key sales should anyways be the amount of lockboxes opened, and there is no reason that should change as a consequence of this.
Overall, good move by Cryptic.
Anyway , I hope it does balance the AD market a bit.
I'm all for balancing that market and making it feasable to actually get zen from your AD.
However; As of right now I believe this hurts. I think ingame loot from boxes is going to skyrocket in price, and trading r* gem for keys to get lock box loot is now severally nerfed. Idk how it will effect things in the long run. who does? but The whole Ward+gem=key's=gear x companion + fashion items equation has been thrown out of wack.
I hope you guys send out an ingame mail notifying people of this change, and perhaps a reconciliation package for those who have spent $100+ on your products (and could retroactivly be being punished now) with something (Perhaps Retaining token, red rubies, companion upgrade tokens, Colecent wards, profession packs... to take the Bitterness taste out of our mouths and keep the player base from rage quiting. ) just saying a little Public Rep couldn't hurt your case. I know I for one would be pissed beyond belief if I had just bought 100.00 worth of zen and you just made them BOA without much notice. ( I understand the lack of notice for the most part, if you caught these guys with their pants down and keys still on their accounts; you might make a big enough hole in their small business budget to sink them)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"If you're going to ride my HAMSTER... At least pull my hair"
Taking the trash out, one badguy at a time.
"Satisfaction guaranteed or twice your trash back."
Just thinking .... what are the sources of incoming AD and destinations of outgoing AD?
Incoming AD
AD from leadership.
AD from invoking.
AD from salvaging.
AD from dailies.
Outgoing AD
Purchases from the Bazaar etc.
AH 10% cut
AD left in the pockets of players that quit the game.
Am I forgetting anything?
Walk a mile . . .
I will continue to play until it is no longer fun at which point I'll find something else to eat up my free time. This is a game folks, not a savings plan or an employment opportunity. In-game currency is a means to an end. Now that the keys are bound, find another way to fund your adventures.
I can't understand why some people get upset and rant - you don't HAVE to play NW. It's not like we're all stuck in a room behind bars being forced to logon. Take a deep breath, move forward and see how this plays out.
Fruitful discussion is based on differing viewpoints, not character assaults.
My $.02
Personally I'm stubborn and stick with games longer than I should. I took a lot of effort and time to get to the point where I have stable AD generation that I don't have to worry about being short on AD. It seems kind of a waste to work to get to that point only to not be able to make much use out of it. Cryptic could easily make us want to continue to play, but instead they continually make changes to hurt players and release buggy content that either isn't done to the extent people want, or isn't what we want at all. A dungeon with decent BoE equipment such as a newer equivalent of CN would've kept a lot of players happy, but instead they have to lower drop rates and character bind most of the loot making it unrewarding, enjoyable and not worth replaying.
Might have to roll a warlock, do the mod 4 stuff and accept that Cryptic aren't going to live up to my previous expectations.
Excellent, mature advice!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."