Most polls that are centered around actual statistical figures are done by small groups. They didn't weigh every fat person in the US to come up with the numbers that: the US is the fattest county in the world.
My point is, it doesn't really matter what forum polls say or who is crying the most in a post. Cryptic is in it to make money, if pvp players are very active in game or spending the most money that is who they focus content for. STO is a pve game, pvp has been ingored since launch, they have causual pve players that drops loads of money on lockboxes and thats the focus of content in STO is to cater to them. Icewind Dale expanded pvp because its profitable to provide more content in that area according to the metrics they use.
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dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited July 2014
PvP PvE PvM RP LMNOP.... I got lost in letters there.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
I am not surprised about this poll results. Who dont have teeth dont eat. Easy as that. Percentuage are probably accurated and show that 2 upon 10 people only pvp but that is impossibile because boons are pve and money has to be made so it probably is larger. So until now we can say: 1/5 of the game population would leave without pvp content. I sure would.
0
imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
...1/5 of the game population would leave without pvp content. I sure would.
And would the game be 1) better off or 2) worse off as a result?
No more ranting *****wavers in zone chat, no more nerfs that ruin things for the pve majority because some pvpers are getting rolled by the class-of-the-day, a lot fewer cheaters and exploiters, since so many of those (like the recent command line fiasco) are firmly based in pvpers trying to get the edge over everyone else... yeah, I could do without pvp in this game.
While i'm not advocating PVP gets removed from this game. It simply would not be fair to force such a radical change to anyone who has paid for and enjoyed the game up to this point. For better or for worse, it is part of the game. And needs to continue to be supported. As any reasonable person would expect ANY advertised feature to be.
I would, however, love to see one company, just one. Make an MMO without any PVP at all. If for no other reason then to test its viability. Not that I expect it will ever happen, but a sockmunkey can dream, right?
And would the game be 1) better off or 2) worse off as a result?
No more ranting *****wavers in zone chat, no more nerfs that ruin things for the pve majority because some pvpers are getting rolled by the class-of-the-day, a lot fewer cheaters and exploiters, since so many of those (like the recent command line fiasco) are firmly based in pvpers trying to get the edge over everyone else... yeah, I could do without pvp in this game.
It'd be very much so worse off. The hardcore pvp'ers have spent a lot of money in this game. Declining revenue is how games die. 20% profit reduction yeah that will get accounting real upset. Suddenly no more modules or at most one a year.
While i'm not advocating PVP gets removed from this game. It simply would not be fair to force such a radical change to anyone who has paid for and enjoyed the game up to this point. For better or for worse, it is part of the game. And needs to continue to be supported. As any reasonable person would expect ANY advertised feature to be.
I would, however, love to see one company, just one. Make an MMO without any PVP at all. If for no other reason then to test its viability. Not that I expect it will ever happen, but a sockmunkey can dream, right?
Closest I've seen is the other dnd mmo. It technically has pvp but it's completely unused by 99.999% of the population because hp is only about 2k tops and characters can hit for over 5k with almost no effort.
It'd be very much so worse off. The hardcore pvp'ers have spent a lot of money in this game. Declining revenue is how games die. 20% profit reduction yeah that will get accounting real upset. Suddenly no more modules or at most one a year.
No idea of PvP players spend more or less than PvPers, I'd be somewhat surprised if there was a massive difference between the two groups.
Also don't forget that not everyone is a paying customer, hard-core or otherwise. I've only read about figures for pure PvP games that aren't 'traditional' MMOs. Planetside 2 at one point had a 10% conversion rate, that is 10% of players are paying customers. World of Tanks has been noted as having one of the highest conversion rates, I've seen that listed as 25-30%.
Edit: I think my line of thought got a little confused at some point writing this.
No idea of PvP players spend more or less than PvPers, I'd be somewhat surprised if there was a massive difference between the two groups.
Also don't forget that not everyone is a paying customer, hard-core or otherwise. I've only read about figures for pure PvP games that aren't 'traditional' MMOs. Planetside 2 at one point had a 10% conversion rate, that is 10% of players are paying customers. World of Tanks has been noted as having one of the highest conversion rates, I've seen that listed as 25-30%.
While I can't say any exact numbers, and it may or may not have a higher ratio of people paying than pve. It does have paying customers. Even with your thought that they're about equal, that would still mean a 15% income drop.
While I used to do both, generally now I ignore pvp as being a laggy buggy totally unbalanced mess. No real matchmaking to speak of kind of ruins any appeal pvp had for me - being put with 2 7ks a 9k and a 10k vs a premade all 16+ (this is what I mean by unbalanced mostly, to clarify), while on my higher geared chars is not my idea of fun. Neither is roflstomping undergeared players if I decide to do premade myself.
So I just PvE now and ignore PvP for the bad joke it is xD
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
My DC is 95% PVE. He is tankier than the average DO but not tanky enough for decent PVPing.
My GWF is only PVPing in order to get the artifact that buffs power and life steal (Vanguard's Banner, I think). He is a tanky PVE Destroyer so he does fairly well in PVP, but the minute I come up against decently geared PVP toons I am toast.
My GF is 50-50. I've queued with a decent PVP guild via an invite, so I can't be that bad, and I can also complete the likes of VT and MC with him.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
My point is, it doesn't really matter what forum polls say or who is crying the most in a post. Cryptic is in it to make money, if pvp players are very active in game or spending the most money that is who they focus content for. STO is a pve game, pvp has been ingored since launch, they have causual pve players that drops loads of money on lockboxes and thats the focus of content in STO is to cater to them. Icewind Dale expanded pvp because its profitable to provide more content in that area according to the metrics they use.
No one can really say for certain if PvPers are the top dollar spenders in this game. My observation is that majority of spenders try to maximize their dollar, and would find all means necessary to skip a handicap in spending (ie game economy flaws) and go directly to a discounted source. Aslo PvPers tend to recycle and obsorb, so a lot that has been spent get passed around (IE accts) and accessories.
As far as the game surviving? I can't think of a game (MMO) that I have played in my 20 years of gaming that didn't start out with some PvP, rather it be a part of the game, or a separate server all together. And with that said, every game in the end had NO pvper player base to speak of after a couple of years, yet thrived on for a decade or more.
PWE's cashcow PWI had only PvP on the weekends (territory wars) and had two very dead PvP servers. The PvP servers were open world PvP, but no one left the safe zones. People only would meet on the weekend for TWs, most of the time the factions were so unbalanced in members powers, those TWs lasted as little as 10 mins. The rest of the week people still PvE, and still spent but loads of cash in the shop.
If PWE was worried about losing revenue on PvPers, trust me PWE knows how to drain a wallet from PvE minded people to compensate. They could load the shop with more vanity than you could buy all at once, and pull a fast one where the only absolute way to get end game gear is to spend a few dollars (oh look coals looks like a start in that direction) And yes, PvE players will spend TONS of money... keep in mind PWE wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't for people in PWI spending upwards to 10K usd per character just to what? PvE, and the thousands upon thousands of people wanting the fashion, the mounts, etc, just to sit around and make a statement for themselves.....for over a decade
And yes, in my 20 years of gaming, the LOUDEST has always been the minority PvPers playerbase. The same thing in each and every game, the PvPers are NEVER satisfied. If when they bring absolute balance to PvP, they get burnt out because why? PvPer don't WANT stale mate, and they don't want to lose, they simply want to be the winning class. The ones that whine and cry the hardest, are those that chose to play a less superior class, and no amount of money or exploit can get them back on top. Funny part is, they stfu quite well when it is their class on the OP roster.
Of course everyone tries to get the best value for their bucks. but I don't think they recycle more than PvE players do. They have no reason to as long as the FotM class doesn't change. I think the average PvE players recycles more when it comes to enchantments and stuff. They are way more likely to try and make different characters, so leftovers are handed down often, if only temporarily.
Can't argue with most of that. Some PvE games with PvP servers thrive, but they are rare. There's no MMO with decent PvE content that has more PvP players than PvE though, and usually PvP servers are quickly abandoned by everyone but the most hardcore PvPers.
That said, in most MMOs it's the PvP people that tend to spend the most initially. Where I don't require a lvl3 mount, they do. Where I am perfectly happy with my self-made r7s, they need r10s and perfects to be competitive. That competition does not exist in PvE. PvEers try to improve sure, but there's no pressure to do so as there is in PvP. Do PvPers spend more in total than PvEers? In NW probably so, as long as there's a ZAx or something similar.
What I mean by recycled, and alternative spending is they tend to feed off the outsourced avenue of game currency, another words, they forsee themselves spending top dollar to keep up with competitive nature of the game, they know the most efficient way is to shop outside of the game. I'm sorry, but its no secret, if you want a 20k GSed PvP machine, the route to go, is not from current game economy.
Recycled is, simple, PvPers players lifespan is way shorter than most PvE minded people. When they quit, they have no qualms of handing their char down, if they found a new interest and know they have no reason to come back. Most PvE minded people would let their characters rot in character select, long before they consider passing it off to someone else.
But on a logical note, there is no solid data that can show that PvPers even spend a dime on this game for the purpose of PvP, I myself have spent more than the common joe, and for the fact I have on occasion PvPed with the one i spent money on, the data would be skewed because I had no intentions of building a PvP character, but the data would flag me for PvP playing?
I PvEed for around 4 months, but after getting every piece of VT, MC and T2 gear for my PvE DC, I got so bored of running the same thing so I got into PvP by joining a Pvp guild and never looked back.
I do still run a bit of PvE for AD, to help others in my PvE guild gear up or just waste a bit of time exploring CN (that's a whole loada fun, would recommend to everyone who is bored of PvE to spend 2 or 3 hours exploring the whole of the dungeon).
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
PvE FTW! If i wanted to PVP i would play a PVP game say Titan Fall, LoL, BF4, CoD, and the list goes on and on. To me i think that PvE'rs spend the most money because it would seem that people who pvp on here are too cheap to buy a real pvp game. I have spent a pretty penny on this game, and hell my main has only been in 1 PvP match and i think that was cuz of some quest while leveling. There are so many better games for PvP i don't know why anyone would want to do that in this one, instead of a game designed for it. Of course the PvP crowd complains more, the boss of a dungeon will never gloat when you wipe, and most of the time if people don't like others in a group they will just leave, not harass them for hours. Its a terrible fact but it does seem that most of the time PVP brings out the worst in people, i know i've been that person smack talking on xbox live. As for PvE and PvP well the only way to do that is to be mediocre at one and suck at the other or be terrible at both, unless you have specific toons for each. People wondered why PvP is getting so much attention, its not that everyone is doing it, but rather that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. PvE'rs are more content with their chars they way they are (or were) while PvP'rs are only concerned with generating a reason why they lost and its always that x class is OP, or blah blah blah. Anyways that was a little rant wasn't trying to upset anyone but if i did my bad.
PvE FTW! If i wanted to PVP i would play a PVP game say Titan Fall, LoL, BF4, CoD, and the list goes on and on. To me i think that PvE'rs spend the most money because it would seem that people who pvp on here are too cheap to buy a real pvp game. I have spent a pretty penny on this game, and hell my main has only been in 1 PvP match and i think that was cuz of some quest while leveling. There are so many better games for PvP i don't know why anyone would want to do that in this one, instead of a game designed for it. Of course the PvP crowd complains more, the boss of a dungeon will never gloat when you wipe, and most of the time if people don't like others in a group they will just leave, not harass them for hours. Its a terrible fact but it does seem that most of the time PVP brings out the worst in people, i know i've been that person smack talking on xbox live. As for PvE and PvP well the only way to do that is to be mediocre at one and suck at the other or be terrible at both, unless you have specific toons for each. People wondered why PvP is getting so much attention, its not that everyone is doing it, but rather that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. PvE'rs are more content with their chars they way they are (or were) while PvP'rs are only concerned with generating a reason why they lost and its always that x class is OP, or blah blah blah. Anyways that was a little rant wasn't trying to upset anyone but if i did my bad.
I think that makes perfect sense. I agree! Darned squeaky wheel PvP'ers messing it up for us PVE'ers.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
People wondered why PvP is getting so much attention, its not that everyone is doing it, but rather that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. PvE'rs are more content with their chars they way they are (or were)...
In somes ways that's a little harsh. At the forum level there seems to be a lot of complaining from the more "serious" PvEers. It's more about the attitude of the player and whilst PvP naturally attracts more competitive types, that spirit seems to be alive and well in PvE as well. Which is why I mostly play solo and the occasional event skirmish.
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imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
edited July 2014
Just imagine how the pvp/pve balance would change if they were to actually fix Foundry and add Foundry rewards...
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited July 2014
I had to vote PvE.
Ostensibly I like PvP, but it hasn't been any fun at all lately, to the point that I just don't want to do it.
Or imagine if they let you design your own pvp maps and rule sets in the foundry. The possibilities would be endless.
Like one on one.
15 on 15,
normalized stats
Cant use weapons, fight club.
Can only use pets, that way there would be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fight tournaments.
Comments
My point is, it doesn't really matter what forum polls say or who is crying the most in a post. Cryptic is in it to make money, if pvp players are very active in game or spending the most money that is who they focus content for. STO is a pve game, pvp has been ingored since launch, they have causual pve players that drops loads of money on lockboxes and thats the focus of content in STO is to cater to them. Icewind Dale expanded pvp because its profitable to provide more content in that area according to the metrics they use.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
And would the game be 1) better off or 2) worse off as a result?
No more ranting *****wavers in zone chat, no more nerfs that ruin things for the pve majority because some pvpers are getting rolled by the class-of-the-day, a lot fewer cheaters and exploiters, since so many of those (like the recent command line fiasco) are firmly based in pvpers trying to get the edge over everyone else... yeah, I could do without pvp in this game.
I would, however, love to see one company, just one. Make an MMO without any PVP at all. If for no other reason then to test its viability. Not that I expect it will ever happen, but a sockmunkey can dream, right?
It'd be very much so worse off. The hardcore pvp'ers have spent a lot of money in this game. Declining revenue is how games die. 20% profit reduction yeah that will get accounting real upset. Suddenly no more modules or at most one a year.
Closest I've seen is the other dnd mmo. It technically has pvp but it's completely unused by 99.999% of the population because hp is only about 2k tops and characters can hit for over 5k with almost no effort.
No idea of PvP players spend more or less than PvPers, I'd be somewhat surprised if there was a massive difference between the two groups.
Also don't forget that not everyone is a paying customer, hard-core or otherwise. I've only read about figures for pure PvP games that aren't 'traditional' MMOs. Planetside 2 at one point had a 10% conversion rate, that is 10% of players are paying customers. World of Tanks has been noted as having one of the highest conversion rates, I've seen that listed as 25-30%.
Edit: I think my line of thought got a little confused at some point writing this.
While I can't say any exact numbers, and it may or may not have a higher ratio of people paying than pve. It does have paying customers. Even with your thought that they're about equal, that would still mean a 15% income drop.
So I just PvE now and ignore PvP for the bad joke it is xD
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
My GWF is only PVPing in order to get the artifact that buffs power and life steal (Vanguard's Banner, I think). He is a tanky PVE Destroyer so he does fairly well in PVP, but the minute I come up against decently geared PVP toons I am toast.
My GF is 50-50. I've queued with a decent PVP guild via an invite, so I can't be that bad, and I can also complete the likes of VT and MC with him.
No one can really say for certain if PvPers are the top dollar spenders in this game. My observation is that majority of spenders try to maximize their dollar, and would find all means necessary to skip a handicap in spending (ie game economy flaws) and go directly to a discounted source. Aslo PvPers tend to recycle and obsorb, so a lot that has been spent get passed around (IE accts) and accessories.
As far as the game surviving? I can't think of a game (MMO) that I have played in my 20 years of gaming that didn't start out with some PvP, rather it be a part of the game, or a separate server all together. And with that said, every game in the end had NO pvper player base to speak of after a couple of years, yet thrived on for a decade or more.
PWE's cashcow PWI had only PvP on the weekends (territory wars) and had two very dead PvP servers. The PvP servers were open world PvP, but no one left the safe zones. People only would meet on the weekend for TWs, most of the time the factions were so unbalanced in members powers, those TWs lasted as little as 10 mins. The rest of the week people still PvE, and still spent but loads of cash in the shop.
If PWE was worried about losing revenue on PvPers, trust me PWE knows how to drain a wallet from PvE minded people to compensate. They could load the shop with more vanity than you could buy all at once, and pull a fast one where the only absolute way to get end game gear is to spend a few dollars (oh look coals looks like a start in that direction) And yes, PvE players will spend TONS of money... keep in mind PWE wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't for people in PWI spending upwards to 10K usd per character just to what? PvE, and the thousands upon thousands of people wanting the fashion, the mounts, etc, just to sit around and make a statement for themselves.....for over a decade
And yes, in my 20 years of gaming, the LOUDEST has always been the minority PvPers playerbase. The same thing in each and every game, the PvPers are NEVER satisfied. If when they bring absolute balance to PvP, they get burnt out because why? PvPer don't WANT stale mate, and they don't want to lose, they simply want to be the winning class. The ones that whine and cry the hardest, are those that chose to play a less superior class, and no amount of money or exploit can get them back on top. Funny part is, they stfu quite well when it is their class on the OP roster.
What I mean by recycled, and alternative spending is they tend to feed off the outsourced avenue of game currency, another words, they forsee themselves spending top dollar to keep up with competitive nature of the game, they know the most efficient way is to shop outside of the game. I'm sorry, but its no secret, if you want a 20k GSed PvP machine, the route to go, is not from current game economy.
Recycled is, simple, PvPers players lifespan is way shorter than most PvE minded people. When they quit, they have no qualms of handing their char down, if they found a new interest and know they have no reason to come back. Most PvE minded people would let their characters rot in character select, long before they consider passing it off to someone else.
But on a logical note, there is no solid data that can show that PvPers even spend a dime on this game for the purpose of PvP, I myself have spent more than the common joe, and for the fact I have on occasion PvPed with the one i spent money on, the data would be skewed because I had no intentions of building a PvP character, but the data would flag me for PvP playing?
I do still run a bit of PvE for AD, to help others in my PvE guild gear up or just waste a bit of time exploring CN (that's a whole loada fun, would recommend to everyone who is bored of PvE to spend 2 or 3 hours exploring the whole of the dungeon).
So.. I do both but mainly PvP.
PvE = 84.77%
PvP = 41.98%
Yes is more than 100% because some people do both.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I think that makes perfect sense. I agree! Darned squeaky wheel PvP'ers messing it up for us PVE'ers.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
In somes ways that's a little harsh. At the forum level there seems to be a lot of complaining from the more "serious" PvEers. It's more about the attitude of the player and whilst PvP naturally attracts more competitive types, that spirit seems to be alive and well in PvE as well. Which is why I mostly play solo and the occasional event skirmish.
Ostensibly I like PvP, but it hasn't been any fun at all lately, to the point that I just don't want to do it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Like one on one.
15 on 15,
normalized stats
Cant use weapons, fight club.
Can only use pets, that way there would be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fight tournaments.
This has been brought up a lot recently, has any of the devs ever commented on this?
They have, and the issue is having to balance player created maps.