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Deflect , the Ultimate Defensive Stat ?

heavenclaimyouheavenclaimyou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited July 2014 in PvE Discussion
All is in the title .

There is something for counter balance the Power of this stat ?
Seriously even class who are not designed for tanking take almost no damage in pvp with that stat .

Basically all we have to do for being competitive pvp players is to get a Deflection Cap and laugh with a pvp with no burst, just tons of cc, and continue damages ?


Making 3 K in critical damages on Lashing Blade on HR is just ridiculous .
Delete the Perma Stealth Please !
Post edited by heavenclaimyou on

Comments

  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Currently Deflection is a very (too?) effective stat in PvP



    One possibility is to reduce the % effectiveness of Deflection in PvP. Alternatively have ArP act with limited effectiveness on Deflect or introduce a new PvP only stat called, say, 'Precision' which is to Deflection as ArP is to Defense.
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I really don't see the problem. Deflect is reliant on RNG and only blocks 50% of damage for all but one class when it triggers. Now that it no longer incorrectly affects CC duration it's fine IMO. The HR is specifically designed from the ground up to rely on deflect heals for survivability but other than that one specific build where is the problem?
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • heavenclaimyouheavenclaimyou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The problem is all classes can use and abuse on this stat and you can't be competitive without using this since there is nothing for counter the deflect stat .

    Reduce 50% of Damages income + Tenacity (20%) means this meta kill the diversity of pvp feats since we can always be more resistant to damages but can't be more damages dealers because it's not viable anymore .

    In other words : When CW, HR, TR are almost tanky as DC/GWF/ Defensive Warrior, Then game become more poor in therme of diversity we are all loser in this meta .
    We sacrifice our base GamePlay (when we play a TR it's not for being a off tank pvp for exemple ) and the fun of our classes for the performence and the homogenize of all classe (Very Tanky and Low damage output ) .
    Delete the Perma Stealth Please !
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    its not deflect the problem, it s tr ridicolous low damage.
  • tang56tang56 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    In other news today, "Are hit points overpowered and should we nerf them?".
    RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
  • iwaslaggingiwaslagging Member Posts: 71
    edited July 2014
    rayrdan wrote: »
    its not deflect the problem, it s tr ridicolous low damage.

    yup here are few reasons why lb is extreamly bad encounter:

    can be deflected
    dodged
    immune
    most dmg u can hit is 15k -if u use profound gear and pvorp.
    most decent pvpers have more then 30k hp
    even if u land lb what then?no tr can slot 2 offencive encounters
    extreamly long cooldown-waiting 17 sec for another chance and having no stealth is game over
    cant 1v1 any pvp spec
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The real issue with TR is, people want it to be tanky and bursty and with constant dps at the same time. While in fact it is an either OR choice. If people want more dmg output, they can just spec for it. Expecting to be the all mighty invulnerable ninja is delusional. "I am specced entirely defensively, why oh why, could it be that my DMG is so low, mmmmh?" I mean come on...

  • iwaslaggingiwaslagging Member Posts: 71
    edited July 2014
    The real issue with TR is, people want it to be tanky and bursty and with constant dps at the same time. While in fact it is an either OR choice. If people want more dmg output, they can just spec for it. Expecting to be the all mighty invulnerable ninja is delusional. "I am specced entirely defensively, why oh why, could it be that my DMG is so low, mmmmh?" I mean come on...

    lol u just described gwf destroyer which can chain 3 shot people with encounters only and 40k hp
    not randome people but top pvp spec classes-
    and u are very wrong trs cant spec offencive
    name 2 offecive powers trs can use
  • rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The biggest nerf for TR was the introduction of Tenacity. For a class that was advertised as "crits a lot and hits like a truck" 20% DR and 20% CritDR was 36% flatout damage nerf. Other class don't need to crit as often to deal damage.

    To be clear, deflect builds for TR were originally made for high-crit TR (THE STRIKER) to survive between 20 seconds CD of Lashing Blade. The alternate build at that time (COOKIE CUTTER) had LB+Impact Shots that can kill all classes in one rotation. Not even gonna talk about the ONE-SHOT builds.

    So if you think about it, a TR can't deal damage not because it's built defensively, but because its burst encounters are not worth their crit for the world!

    The only time you'll find a heavy hitter rogue is when a PVE STR/DEX build stumbles into PvP... You usually squish the guy with your eyes closed.
  • iwaslaggingiwaslagging Member Posts: 71
    edited July 2014
    rustlord wrote: »
    The biggest nerf for TR was the introduction of Tenacity. For a class that was advertised as "crits a lot and hits like a truck" 20% DR and 20% CritDR was 36% flatout damage nerf. Other class don't need to crit as often to deal damage.

    To be clear, deflect builds for TR were originally made for high-crit TR (THE STRIKER) to survive between 20 seconds CD of Lashing Blade. The alternate build at that time (COOKIE CUTTER) had LB+Impact Shots that can kill all classes in one rotation. Not even gonna talk about the ONE-SHOT builds.

    So if you think about it, a TR can't deal damage not because it's built defensively, but because its burst encounters are not worth their crit for the world!

    The only time you'll find a heavy hitter rogue is when a PVE STR/DEX build stumbles into PvP... You usually squish the guy with your eyes closed.

    yup seen top trs with 22% crit chance
    thats less then a gf
    so much abouth crit.
    dont even understand people trying to spec burst while its clearly impossible
    and been since mod 3
    but after tenacity and even more important impact nerf there is no space for dps what so ever
    simple because one bad encounter is no were near enough
  • godlysoul2godlysoul2 Member Posts: 661 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    Deflect only seems overpowered at some points because it can be streaky sometimes just with any other chance based thing in this game. It is fine overall.
  • doriangreighdoriangreigh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 707 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    mconosrep wrote: »
    Currently Deflection is a very (too?) effective stat in PvP



    One possibility is to reduce the % effectiveness of Deflection in PvP. Alternatively have ArP act with limited effectiveness on Deflect or introduce a new PvP only stat called, say, 'Precision' which is to Deflection as ArP is to Defense.

    I don't think deflect itself is the issue, its the gear that procs off it and other PVP stats enhancing (tenacity). I always say its the gear breaking this game as far as PVP goes, but nobody wants to pvp without gear and the sense of reward you get from winning enough to buy said gear ...

    So in the end what needs to happen is take a look at what advantages characters inherently have and then make sure you don't give them gear (ahem developers) that can over power these advantages to the point of making them too strong.

    I have a HR that I just can't seem to use nearly as good as other people use them. Keep in mind I don't have anything on mine but basic purple gear from dread ring (easiest place to run to get boons for IWD).

    Everything in this game and other MMO's are in such small increments in usability I often wonder whats the point in having them, but stack enough of these little bonuses and somehow mathematically you get a large bonus (either from game breaking mistake or from how formulaes calculate behind the scenes). Like the set bonus on the AoW set is pretty huge and can be maintained once built up, however the Black Ice set bonus has such a long CD and is so much smaller than the AoW people don't find it viable despite the fact that Blackice Armor really does do a good job at what it is intended to do, but odds are you lose in some fashion that insane DPS that you have with AoW for a bit more suvivability which is probably going to become even more desirable in MOD4 since it seems like unstoppable is about to get a huge reduction.

    I guess you need to pick and choose what you want to do in this game, its mostly a MMO RPG aka PVE game but if you want it only for PVP then give up on the notion of using other stats and focus more on deflect tenacity and other things that make you good in PVP. Maybe some day pvp QQ's will get their very own PVP enchantments and weapon/armor enchantments that either bump tenacity more or give some other more PVP related benefit. Or maybe someday there will be Neverwinter PVP edition or just as good Neverwinter the PVP server.

    I play mainly for content and PVE but don't mind some occasional PVP for AD you get for dailies. My CW used to do very well in PVP, not always but mostly. Now PVP just kills my CW, he is much better now with black ice gear but still the way match making goes I will often get on a team of people that may or may not even have an artifact.

    For the time being its pretty easy and cheap to stack deflect, silvery enchantments are pretty low cost compared to others.
  • hamletswordshamletswords Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    How the hell is your TR going to live if they nerf deflect? 75% severity, 100% deflect chance, access to the most deflect chance of any class...

    Your class depends on deflect more than any other.
    My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
  • mxtimemxtime Member Posts: 316 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    How the hell is your TR going to live if they nerf deflect? 75% severity, 100% deflect chance, access to the most deflect chance of any class...

    Your class depends on deflect more than any other.


    cost of deflect is to high for tr
    hp is way better
    regeneration is better
    recovery is way better
    having 20% deflect with no investment in rings belt is good enough
    so even 15 to 17% is decent with non halflings
    tr would not miss deflect that much
    it just sounds better then it is
    if there was no regeneration it would be viable
  • gomok72gomok72 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I really don't see the problem. Deflect is reliant on RNG and only blocks 50% of damage for all but one class when it triggers. Now that it no longer incorrectly affects CC duration it's fine IMO. The HR is specifically designed from the ground up to rely on deflect heals for survivability but other than that one specific build where is the problem?

    You can say two classes, as the new kid on the block Warlock will be using this as well.

    People have been playing around with builds on preview since they were put up and all I can say is, this class will be making current flavor of the month builds obsolete.

    Life steal, high survivability on top of the deflection and some defenses will have a lot more people making "Deflection/Defense" complaint threads.
    I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.

    -Kymos
  • doriangreighdoriangreigh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 707 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    gomok72 wrote: »
    You can say two classes, as the new kid on the block Warlock will be using this as well.

    People have been playing around with builds on preview since they were put up and all I can say is, this class will be making current flavor of the month builds obsolete.

    Life steal, high survivability on top of the deflection and some defenses will have a lot more people making "Deflection/Defense" complaint threads.

    Hopefully with people really digging into how to abuse this new class the end result will be a class being released with little potential for abuse lol. I suspect that will not be the case, but I can assure you that when I play a warlock it will be how I want to do it and not how some min/maxing take advantage of some mechanic will have me play it. So far its an OK class but not super impressed with it, does a really nice amount of single target damage though.
  • kolevrakolevra Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    tang56 wrote: »
    In other news today, "Are hit points overpowered and should we nerf them?".

    Hitpoints are overpowered. Hitpoints should have been based on a stat like 'Vitality' which would have diminishing returns like every other stat in the game.

    Deflect not so much. You can add an anti-Deflect stat but then that stat would just become equally as overpowered as you think Deflect is now.
    --- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
    Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    On behalf of all the effective players on Neverwinter. Shut up stop whining about everything. Stop calling for nerfs constantly. If you cant handle the game then go back to playing call of duty and screaming at your screen when you lose.
    Stop begging for an easy button in every game you play. Take time to master a game.....
    I and many other have had enough of players like you.
    New tos rule = cry about game or demand nerf means you are muted forever.
    Just because someone uses a stat in game does not mean they are abusing it when you die to them
    When someone uses a class skill and you die to them it does not mean they are abusing a power.. It means you have not played long or well enough to find an effective countet. Mosy likely this is because you rage quit to forums instead of mastering all your tools in game.
    Enough said... No more nerfs..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • gerbilhurdlergerbilhurdler Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 418 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    On behalf of all the effective players on Neverwinter. Shut up stop whining about everything. Stop calling for nerfs constantly. If you cant handle the game then go back to playing call of duty and screaming at your screen when you lose.
    Stop begging for an easy button in every game you play. Take time to master a game.....
    I and many other have had enough of players like you.
    New tos rule = cry about game or demand nerf means you are muted forever.
    Just because someone uses a stat in game does not mean they are abusing it when you die to them
    When someone uses a class skill and you die to them it does not mean they are abusing a power.. It means you have not played long or well enough to find an effective countet. Mosy likely this is because you rage quit to forums instead of mastering all your tools in game.
    Enough said... No more nerfs..
    effective players are OP!
    please nerf.
  • rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    effective players are OP!
    please nerf.

    On that note, can we nerf the forums pls? Seems to be the biggest source of QQ ever :P
  • tornnomartornnomar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 396 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    IDK, Deflection Depression does have a nice ring to it! :)
    [img][/img]NORresized.png
    Branch Lead
  • rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    tornnomar wrote: »
    IDK, Deflection Depression does have a nice ring to it! :)

    How about Emotional Depression? Since this is the direction this yet another nerf-thread is headed.
    Dexterity is the Trickster Rogue's primary Ability Score ~ increases Critical chance and Deflection.
    http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Trickster_Rogue

    Can you people be any more class specific in your nerf requests! You've already destroyed this class. Just go away.
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