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Guardian Fighter Feedback - Discussions

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  • gman118gman118 Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Will we see Iron Vanguard buffed for us? Swordmaster for a tank does not make sence why buff that one?

    Threatening rush is a must have mob collecting power and it gives us movement more or less too rounding things up.
    Frontline Serge can get us out of being surrounded and dead. If mobs get behind our block we die afterall.
    Specifically the part ÈSwordmaster for a tank does not make sence why buff that one?
    Well Steel Defence is in there making us invulnerable everytime after a daily(which happens quickly if blocking attacks(tactician tree)so I personally think its better for tanking,but i do agree with you about threatening rush it is a nice movement thing that allows us to collect mobs
  • epclipseingmoonepclipseingmoon Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    gman118 wrote: »
    Specifically the part ÈSwordmaster for a tank does not make sence why buff that one?
    Well Steel Defence is in there making us invulnerable everytime after a daily(which happens quickly if blocking attacks(tactician tree)so I personally think its better for tanking,but i do agree with you about threatening rush it is a nice movement thing that allows us to collect mobs
    Thats why IV should get all tanking powers and tweaked a little bit. the word Iron Vanguard alone reminds me of a tank.

    Swordmaster just does not make me feel like a GF....
    @dimensionallight
    Princess Amber - DC
    Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
    Valkyrie Amber - GWF
    Huntress Amber - HR
  • tonyswutonyswu Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    umcjdking wrote: »
    I don't mean to be rude, but what you think is not in line with what the developers are aiming for.

    GFs don't need anything apart from more defenses and utility. They are like the old Paladin class in EQ. They had the lowest DPS of all the fighter classes. But what they could do was tank (if no warrior present) and keep themselves sustained. Our job is very similar. DPS is not our job, nor should it be. Threat, is our job.


    You are correct, but as it stands now, that job is not needed. Assuming CW does more damage than GF, if 1 CW, 2 CWs, even 3 CWs can lock down adds indefinitely, what do you need a threat machine for?

    What I can't stand is dev's inconsistency. When talking about other classes, they said they wanted to make this game so that a tank and healer isn't strictly necessary. Yet when talking about a GF, they want to "reinforce" that we are a tank. What?
  • thestaggythestaggy Member Posts: 1,102 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    To the devs,

    PLEASE CONSIDER BEEFING UP OUR DEFLECTION STACKING

    I have a level 33 HR that has 1% LESS deflection than my fully booned, level 60 GF in Knight Captain's armour. In my heaviest Profound PVP gear I only have ~9% more than my baby HR. That is just silly. My level 60 GWF has 5% more deflection chance and that is without slotting Bravery. If I slot Bravery I get up to 28%, or nearly twice the amount of Deflection, and I still have more than enough DPS to dispatch Valindra in a few minutes. Sure, I can put my Timeless Hero armour on and get the deflection stat to on par with my non-Bravery GWF, but then I lose my team utility. Itemizing for deflection around the Knight Captain set then further erodes my damage output, which is not great as it is being a GF.

    You have done little in terms of boosting our DPS and I suppose that is fair as we are the tank, but if that is the case then we need all aspects of our survivability looked into.

    The Deflection chance from Dexterity needs to go up to 1%. Then you could either look at Plate Agility or Guarded Assault. Plate Agility could be buffed to 1.5% or 2% per point or Guarded Assault could be reworked to include something similar to the GWF's Bravery, adding 3% deflection per point.
    PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
  • aethanasaethanas Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    thestaggy wrote: »
    To the devs,

    PLEASE CONSIDER BEEFING UP OUR DEFLECTION STACKING

    I have a level 33 HR that has 1% LESS deflection than my fully booned, level 60 GF in Knight Captain's armour. In my heaviest Profound PVP gear I only have ~9% more than my baby HR. That is just silly. My level 60 GWF has 5% more deflection chance and that is without slotting Bravery. If I slot Bravery I get up to 28%, or nearly twice the amount of Deflection, and I still have more than enough DPS to dispatch Valindra in a few minutes. Sure, I can put my Timeless Hero armour on and get the deflection stat to on par with my non-Bravery GWF, but then I lose my team utility. Itemizing for deflection around the Knight Captain set then further erodes my damage output, which is not great as it is being a GF.

    You have done little in terms of boosting our DPS and I suppose that is fair as we are the tank, but if that is the case then we need all aspects of our survivability looked into.

    The Deflection chance from Dexterity needs to go up to 1%. Then you could either look at Plate Agility or Guarded Assault. Plate Agility could be buffed to 1.5% or 2% per point or Guarded Assault could be reworked to include something similar to the GWF's Bravery, adding 3% deflection per point.

    I am happy that someone else sees problems here, too. The buff to HP was nice but the HP of a Guardian are now not particularly higher than these of others, they are just on par with the Great Weapon Fighter. Also, this buff is pitiful in the light of the fact that many other stats of the Guardian Fighter have lesser impacts than for other classes, namely Deflection is rather worse.

    I can just suspect that the developers take into account the theoretical defensive capabilities of Blocking and because of this they let the other defensive stats rather low value-wise. That is good and fine, but the Guardian Fighter has to use block frequently to make use of his superior defensive and while he is not blocking he is more susceptible to damage than - say - a Great Weapon Fighter which makes him more fragile during times where blocking is not possible.

    That sounds somehow balanced but it is rather awful as every surprise attack would hit the Guardian Fighter much harder, the movability and usability is limited while blocking and overall you would have reliably better defensive values with a Great Weapon Fighter (Sentinel) with his combination of Unstoppable and Sprint while also having better values from offensive stats.

    My defensive values vary from 44% Damage Reduction to 50% DR and from 21% Deflection Chance to 27%; but a Great Weapon Fighter for example is able to get roughly the same amount of HP and around 40% DR and 30% Deflection or even around 40% like a Trickster Rogue; speaking of Rogues, I saw one with also around 40% DR and 40% Deflection and then I wondered how a Guardian Fighter is supposed to excel with survivability against such foes? I mean, Hunter Rangers, Trickster Rogues and Great Weapon Fighters do way more damage, have better defensive values most of the time (Exception: the Guardian blocks) and also high values in Regeneration; in neither of these stats the Guardian Fighter is remarkably stronger (Exception: Damage Reduction during Block).
  • emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    abbotred wrote: »
    Hello all , as an avid gf player I just want to say the direction they seem to be going is making the class much much worse than before.
    Survivability: blocking now allows damage to get through WHAT? YES THAT'S RIGHT YOU TAKE DAMAGE WHILE BLOCKING NOW
    trade off more mobility while blocking= useless. more responsive key presses= useless they were fine already.
    Soloist DAMAGE:cut in half due to the awful rework of reckless attacker= give us our power back and add some and then some more and a little crit we need to be able to kill.
    cc: now we no longer have any cc, reduced prone so miniscule its not even there then you take away frontline surge damage and power.
    we need an option if we want to be full dps vanguard gf with cc powers and high damage this will make the class viable in pvp and pve
    and more ppl will play it as a result . Thanks for viewing the response from a soloist gf and part time partier.

    You mean "an avid chain-prone GF in PVP" yes ? And you're upset because they broke your chain ? Im happy that both fighters lose prones. Opens up options for more interesting fights
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
  • aethanasaethanas Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    tonyswu wrote: »
    You are correct, but as it stands now, that job is not needed. Assuming CW does more damage than GF, if 1 CW, 2 CWs, even 3 CWs can lock down adds indefinitely, what do you need a threat machine for?

    What I can't stand is dev's inconsistency. When talking about other classes, they said they wanted to make this game so that a tank and healer isn't strictly necessary. Yet when talking about a GF, they want to "reinforce" that we are a tank. What?

    That is one of these funny facts, I also came to realise; the Guardian Fighter is just the product of a logical error, it seems.
  • elveelve Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 336
    edited July 2014
    tonyswu wrote: »
    You are correct, but as it stands now, that job is not needed. Assuming CW does more damage than GF, if 1 CW, 2 CWs, even 3 CWs can lock down adds indefinitely, what do you need a threat machine for?

    What I can't stand is dev's inconsistency. When talking about other classes, they said they wanted to make this game so that a tank and healer isn't strictly necessary. Yet when talking about a GF, they want to "reinforce" that we are a tank. What?

    I'm kinda confused though. Why do people think that dealing consistent damage prevents you from tanking? Why can't the GF be like the CW - they do consistent damage and at the same time they have a role to fulfill in a group. In fact I strongly believe that every class should be like that.
  • freshourfreshour Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    A GWF should have a higher deflection due to the fact they have a huge 2 handed blade and can block attacks common sence...
    A GF should never have as high deflect because how can you hold a shield and focuss on deflecting with one hand more or less.
    Now our DR on the other hands should be buffed and GWF's scale lowered say to say 85% DR. Buff their deflect though.

    What I mean is:
    A GWF's Armor at say 4,600 should be the same as A GF's at 4,000 and have around the same DR%

    Pretty sure the point of a shield is to "deflect" attacks. I've never experienced medieval warfare other than watching the occasion LARP video on youtube BUT - the shield wouldn't do much good in our hands if we just left it at our sides. Sure, that seems a bit sarcastic and it should, because the purpose of a shield is to hold it up and deflect attacks away from you. Now lets put a two handed sword in my hand, make it 6 feet long maybe? You think I'll be able to block incoming blows as well? Granted in real combat the shield is as much of a weapon as the sword?

    Spartacus before he picked up two swords and became the bringer of rain, deflected quite a few attacks from his armor-less body with that shield. Now if you are saying our shield is there to "intimidate" our opponents, and we don't use it for defense at all, then yeah I can see it not helping us deflect many attacks... but other than that, I really think that everything about your comment could not be further form the truth.

    Again, I use sarcasm rather than degrading personal comments because it doesn't come off as bad while at the same time allowing me to display my frustration with your logic that a shield and sword cannot deflect more attacks and a 6 foot sword held with two hands..

    Anyway, just my two cents.
  • katbozejziemikatbozejziemi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Pretty sure that DEFLECTING attacks would result in no damage taken, not 50% (or 75% for TRs, which is something I still don't understand the reasoning behind).
  • epclipseingmoonepclipseingmoon Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    We use our shields to block. sure you could call that deflect but the fact our block is better than a 50% deflect.
    @dimensionallight
    Princess Amber - DC
    Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
    Valkyrie Amber - GWF
    Huntress Amber - HR
  • osterdracheosterdrache Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The main problem I see in this thread are the different demands from GF players.
    U cant be super tanky, support ur group, protect ur group, cc the enemy and dealing great dmg all at once.
    I played a GF myself before mod2 and he was great fun, because he newrly had all of above qualities. These days are gone and will nver come again.

    I still see players here demanding GF should have the option to do good dmg while beeing tanky. Thats nust wrong. We have already a class for that and thats the gwf. What GFs really should focus on is tankiness, some kind of node control and group protection.
    If u wanna play a dps GF ur in a bad spot as the DC who wanna go dps.

    So what the GF needs is more HP, more resistances and more abilities to mitigate incoming dmg for the party. He DOES NOT need more mobility or more dmg. Giving him 85% run speed while shield is up is ridiciolous, but giving him cc immunity is great on the other hand.

    Players have to understand that a GF is a SUPPORT class and the buffs to the class should focus on this aspect.
    If the devs can pull this off I will play my GF again. Because before mod2 I was tired beeing a flying, charging superman who kills in one rotation, and after mod2 I was tired beeing the weak spot in any giving team.

    Give GF super tankiness, give him nice node control as push backs to knock someone off the node, and leave his weak dmg and his low mobility as it is.

    My opinion from a pvp perspective.
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    A GWF should have a higher deflection due to the fact they have a huge 2 handed blade and can block attacks common sence...
    A GF should never have as high deflect because how can you hold a shield and focuss on deflecting with one hand more or less.
    Now our DR on the other hands should be buffed and GWF's scale lowered say to say 85% DR. Buff their deflect though.

    What I mean is:
    A GWF's Armor at say 4,600 should be the same as A GF's at 4,000 and have around the same DR%

    I don't think you understand the point of a shield. A shield is for blocking and deflecting. The idea of a shield is to block big hits and deflect blows away from you knocking them to the side so you can get a hit in and also deflecting arrows and stuff so yes, the gf should have more deflect than the gwf since with a huge sword you would not be deflecting anything, and relying more on keeping your enemy at distance.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    Can one post a link to download ARC + Script for it to test how many damage i receive while guarding?
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    i 1000% back you on this and it is sorely needed for this class.

    the reasons i brought up/compare our counter parts the GWF are these

    feedback

    a GWF can reach 45% deflect simply by putting 3 points into bravery which isn't even a feat but a class skill btw(14%) haveing weapon master slotted/feated(10%) and haveing 5/5 in scale agility(5%) thats a super easy 29% deflect right there now all they need is a low end stat from gear which they can hit 30% easy with the right gear ontop of that they have near a base DR like us with sentinel capstone increaseing this by 20%

    VS

    a GF who only has plate agility 5/5 (5%) and to get even 30% deflect we have to sacrafice alot in other stats also if you want a high DR you have to do this aswell see my point something is backwards here.

    especially since crush has stated we are not DPS we are tanks well i hate to break it to you but how about they reinforce GWF roll as DPS strikers and not tanks.

    to say reinforce means we were tanks from the beginning but none and i mean none of our feats/skills give us any means to fulfill this roll GF's should easily hit 45% deflect and close to 60%DR but that is impossible unless you gimp your character.

    now consider this with the new threat hitting 20 mobs that are now swarming you we should have higher DR and deflect to survive this onslaught this needs to happen.

    the problem is GF's have all the skills to make them a walking singularity in dungeons but the devs have implemented this poorly. if we had a higher base DR a higher base deflect we could spam enforced threat every 10 seconds while holding 20 mobs on us with the help of a healer but we will just drop in a matter of seconds due to our low defense

    thats why i was comparing the 2. GWF A STRIKER CLASS NOT A TANK REINFORCE THAT WHY DONT YA should not have more DR/Deflect than the tank that has been reinforced by crush it just doesnt make sense the logic is wrong and the development is wrong hence why saying we are the tank class is redundant.

    im fine with haveing low end damage if i wanted to dps i would roll a GWF or any other striker class but i wanted to be a tank but this class is so far from a tank it's laughable our DR and Deflect need to be upped 4x as much. tanks should absorb damage while holding mobs with threat currently we can hold the threat but not absorb the incoming damage well.

    and if the devs truly want to reinforce this then that needs to happen

    I think were all on the same page. Personally I think a GF SHOULD be able to SPEC/GEAR out more like a DPS class if he WANTED to lose tankiness... Thats the point of the Conq tree. I mean unless they find a way to merge the GWF and GF to ONE class, you SHOULD have options on how to play the GF.

    Conq = DPS tree/less tanky.
    Prot = Tank tree/ less DPS
    Tact = mix/more support focus.

    I mean look at GWF.
    Sent = UBER tank tree/low DPS.
    Dest = Uber DPS tree/low tanky.

    The issue is Sent>Prot AND Dest>Conq.

    I am fine with a Sentinel being able to tank BETTER than a CONQ GF but a PROT GF?! NO WAY!

    I am FINE also with a DESTROYER GWF being able to out DPS a CONQ GF, but at the current amount? NO WAY! You take a BIS geared GF into a dungeon with a BIS PVE geared Dest GWF, the GWf will spit out 2-3x the damage a GF does... Is that fair?

    They are both fighters...

    a GF should be the tankier brother of the GWF.

    A Destroyer GWF SHOULD out DPS a Conq GF, but shouldnt the Conq GF be more tanky than the Destroyer GWF?

    A Prot GF should be MORE tanky than a Sentinel GWF, but the SENT should arguably deal slighty more damage than a Prot GF...

    The ONLY ways this will happen are PURE % based buffs and NOT stat based ( that rely on Diminishing returns).

    As shown above, GWFs can get massive deflect as % based from features/feats/and even GEAR! Do GFs have any set that gives 7.5% flat deflect? NO. What about features? NO.

    The reason we SHOULD be able to compare these classes is they should play SIMILAR seeing as they are BOTH fighters...

    The GWF is more structured towards DPS, the GF is more about being a punching bag....

    AGAIN FOR CRUSH'S BENEFIT:

    1) RE-WORK STATS:
    CON = HP/ARP/AP GAIN.
    DEX = 1% Deflect .5% Crit

    2) RE-WORK AC!
    3AC=2% DR seems fair


    Oh and for the LOVE OF GOD FIX BLOCK ON THE PTR PLEASE!!!!!!
  • epclipseingmoonepclipseingmoon Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    I don't think you understand the point of a shield. A shield is for blocking and deflecting. The idea of a shield is to block big hits and deflect blows away from you knocking them to the side so you can get a hit in and also deflecting arrows and stuff so yes, the gf should have more deflect than the gwf since with a huge sword you would not be deflecting anything, and relying more on keeping your enemy at distance.

    So you have never heard parrying? That is useing your blade to deflect an attack and with that huge blade I think you could deflect quite alot... We rather than use our blade to deflect an attack we would use our shield to block it. Sure we could deflect it but still we would do it far less because we have a shield that needs fixing though....

    The GWF should have weaker armor as a tradeoff Though.
    @dimensionallight
    Princess Amber - DC
    Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
    Valkyrie Amber - GWF
    Huntress Amber - HR
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    @Ayroux

    You say that dest gwf aren't that tanky and tyhat sent gwf have low dps but thats wrong. A dest can still have 40% deflect chance and crazy survivability, not that much worse than a sent and the sent still has good dps, way higher than the gf that's why i liked the idea of reducing there unstoppable, it would have made them choose mainly dmg or defense but now they get buffed even more so the gf still will be far behind at both.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    So you have never heard parrying? That is useing your blade to deflect an attack and with that huge blade I think you could deflect quite alot... We rather than use our blade to deflect an attack we would use our shield to block it. Sure we could deflect it but still we would do it far less because we have a shield that needs fixing though....

    The GWF should have weaker armor as a tradeoff Though.

    Parrying, yes with a sword or daggers but with a 2h sword the size of your body ? no, no one could swing it that fast to deflect the enemies hit, that's the idea of a shield and that's why gwf should not have that much more deflect than us.

    The gwf already has triple our dps so they should not beat us at any defensive stat. We have worst dmg so we should rightly have the best defense.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    @Ayroux

    You say that dest gwf aren't that tanky and tyhat sent gwf have low dps but thats wrong. A dest can still have 40% deflect chance and crazy survivability, not that much worse than a sent and the sent still has good dps, way higher than the gf that's why i liked the idea of reducing there unstoppable, it would have made them choose mainly dmg or defense but now they get buffed even more so the gf still will be far behind at both.

    Im saying IDEALLY thats how it should be. I agree thats part of the issue. The problem with just hurting Unstoppable is it makes the class unviable in light of the other changes. If they want to tone back tankiness or damage, Unstoppable isnt the way to do that. They should do it through the features/feats the class has access to.

    But even then, I dont think the GWF is out of line, I think the GF is... So id rather see the GF be brought to the GWFs level (now on PTR - NOT on LIVE atm) rather than trying to bring the GWF DOWN to the GFs level - that just creates two useless classes instead of buffing them to where they are viable.
  • epclipseingmoonepclipseingmoon Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    Parrying, yes with a sword or daggers but with a 2h sword the size of your body ? no, no one could swing it that fast to deflect the enemies hit, that's the idea of a shield and that's why gwf should not have that much more deflect than us.

    The gwf already has triple our dps so they should not beat us at any defensive stat. We have worst dmg so we should rightly have the best defense.

    We need to remain killable in pvp thats the bottom line really.... Sure you could add some more deflect to us but I was talking more in terms of ballance. then again the ballance is broke once again on preview anyway...
    @dimensionallight
    Princess Amber - DC
    Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
    Valkyrie Amber - GWF
    Huntress Amber - HR
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    ayroux wrote: »
    Im saying IDEALLY thats how it should be. I agree thats part of the issue. The problem with just hurting Unstoppable is it makes the class unviable in light of the other changes. If they want to tone back tankiness or damage, Unstoppable isnt the way to do that. They should do it through the features/feats the class has access to.

    But even then, I dont think the GWF is out of line, I think the GF is... So id rather see the GF be brought to the GWFs level (now on PTR - NOT on LIVE atm) rather than trying to bring the GWF DOWN to the GFs level - that just creates two useless classes instead of buffing them to where they are viable.

    Yeah I agree, I don't like seeing any classes nerfed, all classes should be balanced in different ways but it doesn't seem that will ever happen :/
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    We need to remain killable in pvp thats the bottom line really.... Sure you could add some more deflect to us but I was talking more in terms of ballance. then again the ballance is broke once again on preview anyway...

    I wouldnt want us to be unkillable yeah but just to have the best survivability because that makes sense to our class and we do have the worst dmg by far so having the best defense seems fair anyway.

    Also HR seem unkillable in pvp atm, if a HR player knows the class well and has good enchants then 2 16k gf could not beat him even together...

    The gwf is also unkillable at times and so is the TR being able to go stealth and regen. These 3 classes are OP and I don't mean anyone is OP with them I mean the class has the potential to be almost unstoppable but yet the best gf player in the game could not do that well.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • velladius#6885 velladius Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    ayroux wrote: »
    AC - typically a HUGE defensive variable, has been horribly translated over, so the GF gets the raw end of both deals - low damage, low weapon damage, and the ONE thing they SHOULD excel at is high AC.

    This is why I STILL propose (and I hope people back me up here)

    CON = HP/ARP/AP gain.
    DEX = 1% deflect (up from .5%) and .5% CRIT (from 0%).

    AC re-worked to 2% DR every 3 AC (UP FROM 1% DR every 2 AC)


    THEN add more crit into the Conq Tree and for the Capstone make it pure damage (maybe 10% @ 3 stacks).

    This NOW allows the GF conqs to deal a moderate amount of damage and retain SOME tankiness.
    This allows Prot GFs to be MUCH tankier (with more AC benefits and now the damage reductions are that much more potent)
    and NOW allows tacts to still have a mix of both

    I completely agree.

    Equipment is still another issue entire.
    11.jpg
  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    We need to remain killable in pvp thats the bottom line really.... Sure you could add some more deflect to us but I was talking more in terms of ballance. then again the ballance is broke once again on preview anyway...

    If a pure tank meet a pure Striker = The one win, that are better skilled.
    If a pure tank meet a hybrid = Tank win.
    If a pure tank meet a pure tank = noone win.
    If a pure tank meet a DC = noone win.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    I wouldnt want us to be unkillable yeah but just to have the best survivability because that makes sense to our class and we do have the worst dmg by far so having the best defense seems fair anyway.

    Also HR seem unkillable in pvp atm, if a HR player knows the class well and has good enchants then 2 16k gf could not beat him even together...

    The gwf is also unkillable at times and so is the TR being able to go stealth and regen. These 3 classes are OP and I don't mean anyone is OP with them I mean the class has the potential to be almost unstoppable but yet the best gf player in the game could not do that well.

    I dont see why the GF should not be the single best node holder with MAYBE the exception of the TR who can perma hide....

    The CORE issue is that HRs can "perma dodge" and have feats that grant insane DR and deflect (look at aspect of the lone wolf granting 25% DR?! WTF?!)

    GWFs gain determination based on damage taken meaning more damage taken = more tanky.

    GFs get NO dodges and NO "advantage" to taking more damage... So in order for them to gain these advantages... Things needs to be changed.
  • oicidrazoicidraz Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    ayroux wrote: »
    I dont see why the GF should not be the single best node holder with MAYBE the exception of the TR who can perma hide....

    The CORE issue is that HRs can "perma dodge" and have feats that grant insane DR and deflect (look at aspect of the lone wolf granting 25% DR?! WTF?!)

    GWFs gain determination based on damage taken meaning more damage taken = more tanky.

    GFs get NO dodges and NO "advantage" to taking more damage... So in order for them to gain these advantages... Things needs to be changed.

    HR is a special case, IDK what the *^·$3 developers had in mind when they did all these things, I wouldn't even feel right having all that stuff in a Tank class, it's just too OP.

    Shift
    - 6 dodges.

    Daily
    - Forest Meditation (Heal, + 100% Deflect chance, + CC Inmunity)

    Encounter
    - Oak Skin (+ Heal, + Def)

    Class Feature
    - Aspect of the Lone Wolf (+ 25% DR, -5% DR each enemy in '25 range, Minimun bonus 0%)

    Feat
    - Natures Blessing (+ 20% efectiveness on healing).

    PS: Oh, and I forgot, Gear Bonus :).

    In Mod 4 I think they are removing Natures Blessing and adding Wilds Medicine.
  • daggon87daggon87 Member Posts: 288 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    mfgamesys wrote: »
    Much appreciated on these fixes especially on crushing surge now a worthy single target at will.
    ...

    As about everything added until now was heavily bugged, you should maybe wait for some testing before saying this.

    And I wonder if +66% healing will be enough to make it noticeable ...
    Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
    Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
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