You are counted as part of this. You generate the AP as well
As far as block goes, it is currently *bugged* and is not providing the full amount of resistance that it should. As far as it being mitigated I have no idea what you mean by that, so I can't really answer. If you are talking about more damage getting through block as your damage resistance is reduced (via Armor Pen or a debuff) then this is true, but was also true with the old block mechanic (it would take more damage because your Damage Resistance did matter). I will need some clarity on what effect is being referenced before I can provide any more information.
I meant that I was in a thornward against an HR. My block was still "up" and I was taking full damage from the HR with GPF. So the old block would absorb all damage, so despite mitigation a BIG hit could still be blocked... But as it is now, if we are fighting an HR with a TON of DR mitigation via one of their six encounters, we drop in about 10-15 seconds....
So I love all the changes, I really do. But the guard bugs out against an hr in thornward, and it will flash totally red when we have been mitigated to a certain point.
Example
I was on Raidcall fighting an HR on test server. He was saying he saw that I was at zero stamina/guardmeter when on my screen i still had 50% less. With no thornward I was block a LOT of damage. WITH thornward, compared to me blocking or not blocking. I literally took near the exact same amount of damage since HR's can easily double thornward and in some cases triple thornward now. (I'm sure that will be fixed I hope)... So I really do like all these changes, I'm just leery about being able to be mitigated to where my block is literally soaking like 20% damage... For instance GPF + Terror + GF Mark + Thornward..... I don't know exactly which of those reduces my DR from the shield per say, but thornward and GPF 100% made me take near full damage while my shield was up..
That is what I meant by the mitigation. It can literally render our shield, useless.
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theevildrfMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
the incomplete block was tried in beta weekend 2. why was it thrown out then? why is it back now?
Ok, we have this much debated issue now not only from players but straight from the source. I have as well as someone else in this thread 14k power with my GF. It took me very long to get there, I don't think my GF is overpowerered, and I don't see why I should get punished now.
There really has never been any debate around this, there is a handful of players who offered the rough math, who have been saying its going to be roughly the same or better for a LARGE majority of the GF player base, then a few minority who stick their head in the sand, ignore the math and post "OMG DAMAGE NERF!" Again, to make sure EVERYONE knows, the number crush posted is the BONUS power needed to equal the new RA, NOT the number in your char sheet.
So to get an equiv damage bonus, you need to have about 10.7k Power.
As much as I hate to say it, with new modules and time comes change. Every class has experienced it. I could post about how long it took me to get a perfect vorpal for my TR for them to shortly afterwards nerf crit based TR builds into the ground and ruin all my effort. I could post about how they nerfed Sent GWFs and made Destroyer THAT much better, basically forcing every GWF to buy a GPF, but I didnt. I could post about how I spent almost 10 mil AD to get a Legendary Emblem only to have them nerf THAT into the ground...
Guess what, its all apart of change and for 99% of the GF population its an improvement.
Part of your issue is this:
- You are are PVE only player, which is fine, BUT! Balance cannot come through taking 10k GS dungeons, throwing a 16kGS+ group into it, and then watching how they perform. Like you said, higher GS groups take less damage, thus to players, like you, who fully stacked power for PVE purposes, you see this as a nerf.
The issue is YOUR solution STILL pigeon holes the GF in PVP and future PVE content as well. Imagine if they released an actual HARD version of CN, one that had control immune mobs, that hit like a truck... One that well, was GS appropriate. Then youd be complaining because your GF (tank class) cant tank.
You CANT look at existing PVE content and make balance decisions around it for a small minorty of the GF-PVE only player base who significantly outgear content.
The old Reckless Attacker is more fun, because it made the player carefully ponder when to block.
This NEVER EVER made it "fun" What this amounts to for both difficult PVE content and PVP especially is the GF LOSES damage the more damage he takes. Essentially in PVP this is what honestly killed the GF class. Without guard meter the GF was weak in damage AND had nothing to survive.
I would strongly encourage you to look at this from the correct lens. If you want to look at PVE, take a proper GS player doing proper GS dungeons. I personally think PVP is where the "fine tuning" SHOULD be done, not because I am a PVPer but because there is no "content level" in PVP. The BIS players play against BIS players and this is truly where you can find what is balanced and what isnt.
... In both cases they leave. Good luck justifying that to the people at perfect world who oversee the finances.
And in general, I think it is always questionable to say: "Hey the plan we have is great. If the humans don't like it, it is the humans that have to change, not the plan". Especially in the area of entertainment I find that to be questionable.
Old, old, it is just old.
The rage about the Stalwart Bulwark change was equal high and many posted they would leave and it were going to break the class; so please stop filling this thread with threats and complaints that are so old like the game is and older like the one "we are no longer in the beta phase" because it is almost the same saying from the time of the Bulwark change.
All this ranting is helping noone.
And the ones who took their goodbye used their time here well to show that they never took the time to test the new mechanics or to badmouth everyone who was not of their opinion; why should someone miss this displayed behaviour?
I meant that I was in a thornward against an HR. My block was still "up" and I was taking full damage from the HR with GPF. So the old block would absorb all damage, so despite mitigation a BIG hit could still be blocked... But as it is now, if we are fighting an HR with a TON of DR mitigation via one of their six encounters, we drop in about 10-15 seconds....
So I love all the changes, I really do. But the guard bugs out against an hr in thornward, and it will flash totally red when we have been mitigated to a certain point.
Example
I was on Raidcall fighting an HR on test server. He was saying he saw that I was at zero stamina/guardmeter when on my screen i still had 50% less. With no thornward I was block a LOT of damage. WITH thornward, compared to me blocking or not blocking. I literally took near the exact same amount of damage since HR's can easily double thornward and in some cases triple thornward now. (I'm sure that will be fixed I hope)... So I really do like all these changes, I'm just leery about being able to be mitigated to where my block is literally soaking like 20% damage... For instance GPF + Terror + GF Mark + Thornward..... I don't know exactly which of those reduces my DR from the shield per say, but thornward and GPF 100% made me take near full damage while my shield was up..
That is what I meant by the mitigation. It can literally render our shield, useless.
I think part of this issue is that since block was hardcapped and counted in the same DR level as regular DR, you were able to mitigate it down.
HOPEFULLY, when its fixed it will be its own DR level (like tenacity) that cannot be mitigated.
What this means is if 1000 damage comes in, you have say 45% DR. Normally youd mitigate 450 damage, however the attacker has 25% ARP so your 45% mitigation drops to 20%. You have 20% in tenacity. NOW with the new block youll have a whole OTHER level of DR at 80%.
So the math SHOULD BE:
1000 damage, 25% ARP against your 45% DR, 20% tenacity BLOCKING(80%) GF.
1000 comes in against 45% DR, 25% is mitigated by ARP making the hit deal 800 damage, then tenacity kicks in for another 20% mitigation down to 640 remaining damage, which is THEN mitigated by block for another 80% = 128 damage came through.
So in total it would block 87.2% of the damage. Where as right now, it gets hard capped at 80%, ARP takes it down to 55% meaning you took 450 damage.
But yes I think there are ALSO still things/attacks that are "getting around" our block, one of which is thorn ward.
Reckless Attacker: Each time you strike an opponent, gain a stack of Reckless Attacker. Each stack grants 1500 power and 4% critical strike chance. Stacks 3 times. Lasts 10 seconds.
Id like to get more opinion on this idea? This gives players a large majority of their "power" back. Basically any GF with <9000 power on LIVE will get a larger power boost.
Then the crit provides roughly another 9% DPS meaning roughly = 1530 power (3060 with the OLD RA) Which would mean any GF who stacked about 12k Power on Live would see equal benefits in DPS.
This provides power over damage - something people complained about.
This provides decent crit chance - the biggest area DPS GFs were lacking.
I dont see AT ALL how it is "OP" I think this would be a good "middle ground" for everyone. The fact that its 3 stacks and WE APPLY IT makes it really easy for a GF to roll into combat, get up and KEEP it up - we have no control over people hitting us.
So I think this solves everyone's dilemma around this rework.
Id like to get more opinion on this idea? This gives players a large majority of their "power" back. Basically any GF with <9000 power on LIVE will get a larger power boost.
Then the crit provides roughly another 9% DPS meaning roughly = 1530 power (3060 with the OLD RA) Which would mean any GF who stacked about 12k Power on Live would see equal benefits in DPS.
This provides power over damage - something people complained about.
This provides decent crit chance - the biggest area DPS GFs were lacking.
I dont see AT ALL how it is "OP" I think this would be a good "middle ground" for everyone. The fact that its 3 stacks and WE APPLY IT makes it really easy for a GF to roll into combat, get up and KEEP it up - we have no control over people hitting us.
So I think this solves everyone's dilemma around this rework.
Except for the central flaw that it doesn't work if Level cap or equipment rules or power changes Also it totally breaks everyone pre 60 (because power is not 166 points per % pre 60).
Protector: Iron Guard: Now stacks 4 times, reducing enemy damage by 5% per stack (Maximum reduction of 20%, up from 10%).
It still doesn't feel appropriate. It should activate on taking damage rather than attacking and doing damage (something Protector GFs definitely aren't good at), but I'm still for a full rework...
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joebendaMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited July 2014
First time poster here, and while I haven't played my guardian fighter for very long, I strongly feel some of these changes are going in the wrong direction. Now I haven't read the other 70+ pages of the thread but I'd like to give my two cents before the blocking mechanic becomes less useful in how I like to play my GF.
Feedback: Blocking/Guard Meter There are a couple things I find counter-intuitive about the changes, first off the constant drain of stamina regardless of whether or not you're taking damage is a huge problem. In PvE it will take away a lot of my survivability at low health and have a huge impact on my flexibility as a tank. In PvP it will reduce my ability to hold my ground against CW and HR if they can negate my shield just by staying out of reach. I'd dislike it immensely to see this implemented as it stands on the test server.
On a related note, a couple days ago when I first tried out the test server, block no longer reduced my run speed. Regardless of if this is intentional or not, I feel that the run speed reduction was a fair trade off for the non-depleting block meter. It helped create *some* balance in pvp, as well as give a sense of reduced mobility in pve which I find completely well imposed. The full run speed while blocking just looks silly.
The activation time I didn't really think much of, it will help more casual Guardian Fighters block more effectively and it'd help if block does become stamina based, but I really don't think its broken enough to change this dramatically.
On the plus side, I was really exited for the change of it not being impenetrable. I think that taking damage while blocking will help deter people from relying on it too much and encourage more diverse builds. However I feel it would be best if it still blocked all the CC effects that it currently does. I for one use block less as damage immunity and more as a guaranteed dodge for larger attacks and aoes. Taking 20% of the damage that I usually shrug off will be a significant amount to overcome but still not unreasonably so.
Feedback: Threat Now this I have no issues with, I think it was well deserved. The AoE taunt more or less switching places with CW's singularity will help immensely in large scale AoE fests where there are simply too many adds for one GF to control. Knights valor transferring more threat is wonderful, though I'd be happy with 125% instead of a full 200%. Mark is a lot more useful on boss fights where I would otherwise fight to hold threat.
Now my only concern with mark is the GWFs who like using it even while a GF is trying to keep up his mark on a boss. I understand that it isn't a huge deal and one will just have to accommodate the other but maybe put less importance on mark for GWF, or make it purely threat related for them, not with any added bonuses for having it up as I recall seeing in their trait lines (I could be wrong here).
This being said I should mention I play more as mitigation. Sword-master / Tactician, with Knights Valor / Enforced Threat / Lunging Strike, and Knight Captain armor or Timeless Heroes armor. 14k GS for reference I guess, and I haven't spent much time in IWD.
I appreciate the opportunity to have my say, keep up the good work.
Why not give the shield another function? Using a shield successfully kind of feels a little contrary to itself. Why shouldn't blocked damage disregard the Armor Penetration stat entirely to begin with? I mean really.
Crush
Please look into skills like shocking execution and other rogue dailies that go through our guard now. The other buffs are great and iron guard activating on you doing dmg is a smart
Id like to get more opinion on this idea? This gives players a large majority of their "power" back. Basically any GF with <9000 power on LIVE will get a larger power boost.
Then the crit provides roughly another 9% DPS meaning roughly = 1530 power (3060 with the OLD RA) Which would mean any GF who stacked about 12k Power on Live would see equal benefits in DPS.
This provides power over damage - something people complained about.
This provides decent crit chance - the biggest area DPS GFs were lacking.
I dont see AT ALL how it is "OP" I think this would be a good "middle ground" for everyone. The fact that its 3 stacks and WE APPLY IT makes it really easy for a GF to roll into combat, get up and KEEP it up - we have no control over people hitting us.
So I think this solves everyone's dilemma around this rework.
There are a couple of things we need to consider here,
1. we need to understand how the % is being done -
4500 Power = 27% (if every 166 power = 1% damage)
- cleave of 1000 + 30%(+ 27% reckless attacker *which is converted to power) = 57% total coming from power = 1570 damage
OR
- cleave of 1000 + 30% power coming from power + 25% damage* from reckless attack = 1625
Well, dumbed down is dumbed down. The majority of this community is barely able to type their own names without typos, so it didn't surprise me that they find the old Reckless attacker less appealing, since it took some brains to use it, properly. The same goes for the GF who could not defeat a GWF, while i killed them with 25k+ crits. I know what i am doing, i did not need any guides (in a game that consists of nothing but ARCHETYPES, anyway) to build my character in a unique way and be successful with it, against fotm classes aswell as fotm forum-guide, baboon specs. The old block also required an intelligent person sitting in front of the screen, now it requires ZERO brain which caters towards the dumb - newcomer masses, instead of the people who have 12+ years of mmo experience.
---
Like we already mentioned, my wife and i deleted our characters and already found a new game, where the developers at least do not listen to complete delusionists. It was a nice ride, while it lasted. Seeya, to those who care and also seeya, to those who do not care.
Not everything should be only for good, well skilled players, these changes do make guard more simple and easier yes that does help the lesser guardian fighters but if its better then it also helps the more experienced players who are good anyway.
Except for the central flaw that it doesn't work if Level cap or equipment rules or power changes Also it totally breaks everyone pre 60 (because power is not 166 points per % pre 60).
It has to be a percent bonus for these reasons.
Good points - I dont think the pre-60 is IMO a huge deal. The earliest you can get the capstone is what, level 50-51? So its only the final "pre-60" either pvp bracket or dungeons that are affected. IMO, its WAY less game breaking than twinks at that level - just saying.
I think the level cap raising causes bigger issues, this is the first time Ive ever seen a DEV comment on this, and didnt think it was even in the works. So kudos to even thinking about it
I still am holding though that 3 stacks the GF applies is better than 5 stacks someone else applies. Thats my biggest concern here. I think 5 stacks the GF applies is TOO much. Takes too long to build momentum and many classes can kite for over 10 seconds, makes it too easy to lose.
I STILL think 10%/4% would work fine as well, Yes its a 39% damage boost - but again all classes have higher weapons which is the biggest factor in damage, so its not like giving GFs 39% DPS boost and HRs 30% is "breaking" GFs. Heck GWFs have over 1000 damage top end AND a 50% damage capstone. Destroyers Purpose offers almost 40% and thats not even a capstone!
TLDR: 10%dmg/4%crit helps the Conq GF make up for lack of top end weapon damage. I would bet this STILL wont make a GF seen as a "dps class" merely a Tank Class that has decent damage. GWFs/HRs/CWs will still dominate the field in PVE DPS.
-The OTHER option could be to "bring back" the "stalwart" method of giving power... AKA Grants % of HP as power. Now that CON was buffed for GFs, I could see something LIKE
Reckless Attacker: Grants 4% of your Max HP as Power and 4% crit chance. Stacks 3 times, lasts 10 seconds. Thoughts on this?! It now scales with all levels....
Examples:
4% HP at 35k HP = 1400 power/stack (25% dmg boost)
4% HP at 40k HP = 1600 power/stack (28.9% dmg boost)
I am probably MORE in favor of the flat 10%/4% damage boost, but this would make a "scaling" to the capstone...
Guarding less than 100% Block is a very good thing with a number of implications.
It's good for PvE and PvP, especially with +4% health now instead of 2.
I have some idea what the forumla might look like for bleed through damage and I think armor penetration should be taken out of it, even if only on paper first. I think it is an idea worth understanding.
Also, regardless of current preview stamina drain and recharge being bearable as opposed to what it was a week ago, I look at other class discussions and begin to see how far behind we are.
Distracting Shield 1/2/3/4/5% - Buff!
Potent Challenge - 5/10/15% - Outdated
Powerful Attack -2/4/6/8/10% - Dilapidated
Grit 1/2/3% - Outdated, Conflicted
Weapon Mastery 1/2/3% - Out of Place
So is the DR I mentioned going to be separated? Is equipment DR and shield DR going to be mitigated the same amount by the same source of AP or mitigation?
Is 20% AP going to get through 20% of my shield, and 20% of my Damage Resistance? If that is the cae, some people get HUGE mitigation and will effectively make us defenseless regardless of a shield or not... I don't understand why that is ok?
Ill explain how it should work so it is 100% clear.
Given your example of 2000 incoming damage and 50% DR you would take 1000 while not blocking. Then your block would get involved and multiply THAT post resist number by 20% (resulting in 200 incoming damage, or a grand total 90% resistance). You can also take your current damage resistance * 1.8 to find what your blocking resist SHOULD be. Alternately you could multiply the base damage by .2 (Block grants 80%) and then multiply the remaining value (400 in this case) by your damage resist.
This is what makes a multiplicative bonus so nice. As long as you aren't using an operation that isn't a part of the formula you will generally get the right answer.
So. TL;DR. Damage Resistance while blocking works like this. (FinalDamage) = (Damage) * (1 - DamageResist) * (1 - BlockResist)
In your example that would be 200 = (2000) * (1.5) * (1-.8)
Hopefully that clears it up!
Im necro-ing this post just to make sure I 100% understand this...
Also, we attack slowly, we attack melee, not to mention we lack mobility. You can't just say "You aren't a DPS Class". Buff the hard figures on At-Will damage. We are fundamentally undeveloped.
Bug: Block shows that its broken with Stamina remaining Block shows that its broken, when there is still stamina remaining, seems to happen more often when you get hit by many attacks, block still works and until it is drained completely.
Tactician: Martial Mastery: This feat now generates AP for allies within 50' any time you take damage. You no longer have to not be blocking for this effect to work.
YES! Tactician is, as far as I can tell, the tree that's about making your allies stronger, so they can destroy stuff faster. The capstone always felt out of place for this - until this change (which admittedly may take a LOT of fine-tuning to work properly). THANK YOU.
Protector: Iron Guard: Now stacks 4 times, reducing enemy damage by 5% per stack (Maximum reduction of 20%, up from 10%).
Good!.
As a Protector, I find that's pretty useful to decrease the enemy's damage, but although I feel good about the change... I think it would be better if this effect occurs when I take damage, for me it would make more sense (it would be like an improved version of Distracting Shield), and also, it would have a good synergy with Knight's Valor... Also, I think that activating the Protector capstone by making an attack feels weird.
Looking forward to Tactician and Protector changes.
Distracting Shield paragon power is no good at 1/2/3%
I also still think Tide of Iron and Crushing Surge are utility skills. They deserve to be represented that way, not do extra damage. No one uses them anyway, they're novelty skills. There is no point in not simply catering to this.
Looking forward to Tactician and Protector changes.
Distracting Shield paragon power is no good at 1/2/3%
I also still think Tide of Iron and Crushing Surge are utility skills. They deserve to be represented that way, not do extra damage. No one uses them anyway, they're novelty skills. There is no point in not simply catering to this.
I always use tide for pve and pvp great debuff and shield regen.
Comments
I meant that I was in a thornward against an HR. My block was still "up" and I was taking full damage from the HR with GPF. So the old block would absorb all damage, so despite mitigation a BIG hit could still be blocked... But as it is now, if we are fighting an HR with a TON of DR mitigation via one of their six encounters, we drop in about 10-15 seconds....
So I love all the changes, I really do. But the guard bugs out against an hr in thornward, and it will flash totally red when we have been mitigated to a certain point.
Example
I was on Raidcall fighting an HR on test server. He was saying he saw that I was at zero stamina/guardmeter when on my screen i still had 50% less. With no thornward I was block a LOT of damage. WITH thornward, compared to me blocking or not blocking. I literally took near the exact same amount of damage since HR's can easily double thornward and in some cases triple thornward now. (I'm sure that will be fixed I hope)... So I really do like all these changes, I'm just leery about being able to be mitigated to where my block is literally soaking like 20% damage... For instance GPF + Terror + GF Mark + Thornward..... I don't know exactly which of those reduces my DR from the shield per say, but thornward and GPF 100% made me take near full damage while my shield was up..
That is what I meant by the mitigation. It can literally render our shield, useless.
Beta Junkie
There really has never been any debate around this, there is a handful of players who offered the rough math, who have been saying its going to be roughly the same or better for a LARGE majority of the GF player base, then a few minority who stick their head in the sand, ignore the math and post "OMG DAMAGE NERF!" Again, to make sure EVERYONE knows, the number crush posted is the BONUS power needed to equal the new RA, NOT the number in your char sheet.
So to get an equiv damage bonus, you need to have about 10.7k Power.
As much as I hate to say it, with new modules and time comes change. Every class has experienced it. I could post about how long it took me to get a perfect vorpal for my TR for them to shortly afterwards nerf crit based TR builds into the ground and ruin all my effort. I could post about how they nerfed Sent GWFs and made Destroyer THAT much better, basically forcing every GWF to buy a GPF, but I didnt. I could post about how I spent almost 10 mil AD to get a Legendary Emblem only to have them nerf THAT into the ground...
Guess what, its all apart of change and for 99% of the GF population its an improvement.
Part of your issue is this:
- You are are PVE only player, which is fine, BUT! Balance cannot come through taking 10k GS dungeons, throwing a 16kGS+ group into it, and then watching how they perform. Like you said, higher GS groups take less damage, thus to players, like you, who fully stacked power for PVE purposes, you see this as a nerf.
The issue is YOUR solution STILL pigeon holes the GF in PVP and future PVE content as well. Imagine if they released an actual HARD version of CN, one that had control immune mobs, that hit like a truck... One that well, was GS appropriate. Then youd be complaining because your GF (tank class) cant tank.
You CANT look at existing PVE content and make balance decisions around it for a small minorty of the GF-PVE only player base who significantly outgear content.
This NEVER EVER made it "fun" What this amounts to for both difficult PVE content and PVP especially is the GF LOSES damage the more damage he takes. Essentially in PVP this is what honestly killed the GF class. Without guard meter the GF was weak in damage AND had nothing to survive.
I would strongly encourage you to look at this from the correct lens. If you want to look at PVE, take a proper GS player doing proper GS dungeons. I personally think PVP is where the "fine tuning" SHOULD be done, not because I am a PVPer but because there is no "content level" in PVP. The BIS players play against BIS players and this is truly where you can find what is balanced and what isnt.
Old, old, it is just old.
The rage about the Stalwart Bulwark change was equal high and many posted they would leave and it were going to break the class; so please stop filling this thread with threats and complaints that are so old like the game is and older like the one "we are no longer in the beta phase" because it is almost the same saying from the time of the Bulwark change.
All this ranting is helping noone.
And the ones who took their goodbye used their time here well to show that they never took the time to test the new mechanics or to badmouth everyone who was not of their opinion; why should someone miss this displayed behaviour?
I think part of this issue is that since block was hardcapped and counted in the same DR level as regular DR, you were able to mitigate it down.
HOPEFULLY, when its fixed it will be its own DR level (like tenacity) that cannot be mitigated.
What this means is if 1000 damage comes in, you have say 45% DR. Normally youd mitigate 450 damage, however the attacker has 25% ARP so your 45% mitigation drops to 20%. You have 20% in tenacity. NOW with the new block youll have a whole OTHER level of DR at 80%.
So the math SHOULD BE:
1000 damage, 25% ARP against your 45% DR, 20% tenacity BLOCKING(80%) GF.
1000 comes in against 45% DR, 25% is mitigated by ARP making the hit deal 800 damage, then tenacity kicks in for another 20% mitigation down to 640 remaining damage, which is THEN mitigated by block for another 80% = 128 damage came through.
So in total it would block 87.2% of the damage. Where as right now, it gets hard capped at 80%, ARP takes it down to 55% meaning you took 450 damage.
But yes I think there are ALSO still things/attacks that are "getting around" our block, one of which is thorn ward.
Id like to get more opinion on this idea? This gives players a large majority of their "power" back. Basically any GF with <9000 power on LIVE will get a larger power boost.
Then the crit provides roughly another 9% DPS meaning roughly = 1530 power (3060 with the OLD RA) Which would mean any GF who stacked about 12k Power on Live would see equal benefits in DPS.
This provides power over damage - something people complained about.
This provides decent crit chance - the biggest area DPS GFs were lacking.
I dont see AT ALL how it is "OP" I think this would be a good "middle ground" for everyone. The fact that its 3 stacks and WE APPLY IT makes it really easy for a GF to roll into combat, get up and KEEP it up - we have no control over people hitting us.
So I think this solves everyone's dilemma around this rework.
Except for the central flaw that it doesn't work if Level cap or equipment rules or power changes
It has to be a percent bonus for these reasons.
It still doesn't feel appropriate. It should activate on taking damage rather than attacking and doing damage (something Protector GFs definitely aren't good at), but I'm still for a full rework...
Feedback: Blocking/Guard Meter
There are a couple things I find counter-intuitive about the changes, first off the constant drain of stamina regardless of whether or not you're taking damage is a huge problem. In PvE it will take away a lot of my survivability at low health and have a huge impact on my flexibility as a tank. In PvP it will reduce my ability to hold my ground against CW and HR if they can negate my shield just by staying out of reach. I'd dislike it immensely to see this implemented as it stands on the test server.
On a related note, a couple days ago when I first tried out the test server, block no longer reduced my run speed. Regardless of if this is intentional or not, I feel that the run speed reduction was a fair trade off for the non-depleting block meter. It helped create *some* balance in pvp, as well as give a sense of reduced mobility in pve which I find completely well imposed. The full run speed while blocking just looks silly.
The activation time I didn't really think much of, it will help more casual Guardian Fighters block more effectively and it'd help if block does become stamina based, but I really don't think its broken enough to change this dramatically.
On the plus side, I was really exited for the change of it not being impenetrable. I think that taking damage while blocking will help deter people from relying on it too much and encourage more diverse builds. However I feel it would be best if it still blocked all the CC effects that it currently does. I for one use block less as damage immunity and more as a guaranteed dodge for larger attacks and aoes. Taking 20% of the damage that I usually shrug off will be a significant amount to overcome but still not unreasonably so.
Feedback: Threat
Now this I have no issues with, I think it was well deserved. The AoE taunt more or less switching places with CW's singularity will help immensely in large scale AoE fests where there are simply too many adds for one GF to control. Knights valor transferring more threat is wonderful, though I'd be happy with 125% instead of a full 200%. Mark is a lot more useful on boss fights where I would otherwise fight to hold threat.
Now my only concern with mark is the GWFs who like using it even while a GF is trying to keep up his mark on a boss. I understand that it isn't a huge deal and one will just have to accommodate the other but maybe put less importance on mark for GWF, or make it purely threat related for them, not with any added bonuses for having it up as I recall seeing in their trait lines (I could be wrong here).
This being said I should mention I play more as mitigation. Sword-master / Tactician, with Knights Valor / Enforced Threat / Lunging Strike, and Knight Captain armor or Timeless Heroes armor. 14k GS for reference I guess, and I haven't spent much time in IWD.
I appreciate the opportunity to have my say, keep up the good work.
Please look into skills like shocking execution and other rogue dailies that go through our guard now. The other buffs are great and iron guard activating on you doing dmg is a smart
There are a couple of things we need to consider here,
1. we need to understand how the % is being done -
4500 Power = 27% (if every 166 power = 1% damage)
- cleave of 1000 + 30%(+ 27% reckless attacker *which is converted to power) = 57% total coming from power = 1570 damage
OR
- cleave of 1000 + 30% power coming from power + 25% damage* from reckless attack = 1625
Thats how i understand it.
Not everything should be only for good, well skilled players, these changes do make guard more simple and easier yes that does help the lesser guardian fighters but if its better then it also helps the more experienced players who are good anyway.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Good points - I dont think the pre-60 is IMO a huge deal. The earliest you can get the capstone is what, level 50-51? So its only the final "pre-60" either pvp bracket or dungeons that are affected. IMO, its WAY less game breaking than twinks at that level - just saying.
I think the level cap raising causes bigger issues, this is the first time Ive ever seen a DEV comment on this, and didnt think it was even in the works. So kudos to even thinking about it
I still am holding though that 3 stacks the GF applies is better than 5 stacks someone else applies. Thats my biggest concern here. I think 5 stacks the GF applies is TOO much. Takes too long to build momentum and many classes can kite for over 10 seconds, makes it too easy to lose.
I STILL think 10%/4% would work fine as well, Yes its a 39% damage boost - but again all classes have higher weapons which is the biggest factor in damage, so its not like giving GFs 39% DPS boost and HRs 30% is "breaking" GFs. Heck GWFs have over 1000 damage top end AND a 50% damage capstone. Destroyers Purpose offers almost 40% and thats not even a capstone!
TLDR: 10%dmg/4%crit helps the Conq GF make up for lack of top end weapon damage. I would bet this STILL wont make a GF seen as a "dps class" merely a Tank Class that has decent damage. GWFs/HRs/CWs will still dominate the field in PVE DPS.
-The OTHER option could be to "bring back" the "stalwart" method of giving power... AKA Grants % of HP as power. Now that CON was buffed for GFs, I could see something LIKE
Reckless Attacker: Grants 4% of your Max HP as Power and 4% crit chance. Stacks 3 times, lasts 10 seconds. Thoughts on this?! It now scales with all levels....
Examples:
4% HP at 35k HP = 1400 power/stack (25% dmg boost)
4% HP at 40k HP = 1600 power/stack (28.9% dmg boost)
I am probably MORE in favor of the flat 10%/4% damage boost, but this would make a "scaling" to the capstone...
It's good for PvE and PvP, especially with +4% health now instead of 2.
I have some idea what the forumla might look like for bleed through damage and I think armor penetration should be taken out of it, even if only on paper first. I think it is an idea worth understanding.
Also, regardless of current preview stamina drain and recharge being bearable as opposed to what it was a week ago, I look at other class discussions and begin to see how far behind we are.
Distracting Shield 1/2/3/4/5% - Buff!
Potent Challenge - 5/10/15% - Outdated
Powerful Attack -2/4/6/8/10% - Dilapidated
Grit 1/2/3% - Outdated, Conflicted
Weapon Mastery 1/2/3% - Out of Place
That is just the tip of the iceberg.
Is 20% AP going to get through 20% of my shield, and 20% of my Damage Resistance? If that is the cae, some people get HUGE mitigation and will effectively make us defenseless regardless of a shield or not... I don't understand why that is ok?
Im necro-ing this post just to make sure I 100% understand this...
"(FinalDamage) = (Damage) * (1 - DamageResist) * (1 - BlockResist)"
When someone has debuffs or ARP it ONLY mitigates the (1-damageresist) portion correct?
So lets say someone attacks with 2000 but it was debuffed (40%) +ARP (20%) = -60%. but the GF has only 50% DR, so the formula would be:
(440) = 2,000 * (1 - - .10) * ( 1 - 80%)
So the debuffs and ARP can ONLY affect the GFs DR NOT the actual block DR?
Block shows that its broken, when there is still stamina remaining, seems to happen more often when you get hit by many attacks, block still works and until it is drained completely.
but some dmg is counted as Guard break damage
This is crushing surge animation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_g5wP8mwzc
lol - now it looks as bad as it works! excellent!
He was good as hell ppl
Great Feedback, glad he was good as hell
Good!.
As a Protector, I find that's pretty useful to decrease the enemy's damage, but although I feel good about the change... I think it would be better if this effect occurs when I take damage, for me it would make more sense (it would be like an improved version of Distracting Shield), and also, it would have a good synergy with Knight's Valor... Also, I think that activating the Protector capstone by making an attack feels weird.
Thanks
Distracting Shield paragon power is no good at 1/2/3%
I also still think Tide of Iron and Crushing Surge are utility skills. They deserve to be represented that way, not do extra damage. No one uses them anyway, they're novelty skills. There is no point in not simply catering to this.
I always use tide for pve and pvp great debuff and shield regen.