The first role in the list of roles is the primary role. rest are possible secondary roles. Allow me to clarify that I was speaking purely from perspective of main roles.
And GF having main role as Leader and secondary role as tank? Any reference that you can quote for this?
CW having dps as primary and controller as secondary? You could argue that dps is a form of control (argued numerous times on the forums) but then mentioning both seems redundant.
" The Guardian Fighter is the undeniable leader of a Neverwinter dungeon party. Always willing to selflessly sacrifice his or her body for the safety of the party, they are first to charge into combat and draw enemies’ attention. Giving the rest of the party time to react. "
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Problem with this balance threads is, the people who have a better idea of what needs to be changed are the class players themselves. And those people don't want to see their characters descend from godhood.
I'm one of the few CW players who think CWs damage needs to be toned down, aoe wise (some single target need buffs for pvp though, like prone on repel).
I mean a CW does huge damage, AND it does tons of +damage debuffs AND locks down enemies better than any other class.
GWFs are overpowered in PvE not because of their damage (they should do alot of damage, because of their role) but they are near invincible (with some gear) Clerics become a wasted slot.
iaccidentally47Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
As an interesting note, the mod 3 changes to GWF do seem to be working mostly as intended. Before mod 3, deep gash was 40-70% of GWF damage, according to parses. After the change, the damage is much more balanced between skills, and is overall close to the same. The real issue is that with the changes to power, GWF, the class that stacks tons of power, saw the largest benefit. Granted, IBS does hit a little too hard in pvp, and roar is horribly broken (though it has been for a long time, just now is used because of the lower cooldown). However, GWF is actually much more balanced since the changes in mod3, at least internally. Class balance is and has always been a difficult issue in MMOs, so we shouldn't get too outraged over a certain class or spec being "overpowered". We would all love to see a perfect balance between all classes and specs, but this simply isn't reality.
Miss Anthropy - 15.7k CW | Miss Andrist - 19k GWF | DC (14.5k) | TR (14.5k) | HR(14k) | GF(15.5k)
Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
GWF guide: click me
" The Guardian Fighter is the undeniable leader of a Neverwinter dungeon party. Always willing to selflessly sacrifice his or her body for the safety of the party, they are first to charge into combat and draw enemies’ attention. Giving the rest of the party time to react. "
While that is indeed insightful, allow me to quote what precedes that..
"The Guardian Fighter is courageous and stalwart, superior at defensive maneuvers, and no stranger to hand-to-hand combat. Heavy plate armor and a shield make the Guardian Fighter a durable mainstay on the battlefield, while a trusty longsword and focused aggression cut through foes that stand in the way. Some fighters choose to rely on large imposing weapons, others prefer dirty tricks"
Sounds like a tank to me..
As an interesting note, the mod 3 changes to GWF do seem to be working mostly as intended. Before mod 3, deep gash was 40-70% of GWF damage, according to parses. After the change, the damage is much more balanced between skills, and is overall close to the same.
In PVE that's fine, but in PVP it means the damage that was previously coming from a bleed and borked mitigation reduction is being channeled into instant-hitting attacks.
Burst damage is king in PVP. Combine the fact that you can't mitigate burst damage because it happens instantly with a class that can CC the hell out of you so you can't prevent it then you've got a problem.
While that is indeed insightful, allow me to quote what precedes that..
"The Guardian Fighter is courageous and stalwart, superior at defensive maneuvers, and no stranger to hand-to-hand combat. Heavy plate armor and a shield make the Guardian Fighter a durable mainstay on the battlefield, while a trusty longsword and focused aggression cut through foes that stand in the way. Some fighters choose to rely on large imposing weapons, others prefer dirty tricks"
Sounds like a tank to me..
I wasn't saying the GF wasn't a tank? I was saying he is considered a Leader class even back in D&D.
EDIT: This was way off topic, sorry for the derail, we got on class roles subject...
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
well, One possibility would replace sprint for blocking, removing the damage reduction of unstoppable.
our "tank" would be conditional (Arguably below the gf, but still existing) and even iv had little mobility.
ps: still do not understand the argument "gwf took the role of gf". gwf is a "tough dps" gf a defender. the gwf continues a bad defender, just makes a damage of hell now ... what never was the role of gf.
We would all love to see a perfect balance between all classes and specs, but this simply isn't reality.
Thing is, it's been many, many months now since GWF is pretty much best or tied-best class in PvP. Starting with the Tenebrous period, their supremacy never ended and each and every attempt to fix/nerf actually resulted in a buff for the class. Meanwhile, TRs have been constantly nerfed successfully, CWs and DCs have lost a lot due to Tenacity as well, HRs... well, they tried to nerf, and in the end they messed it up badly lol.
So even if perfect balance is never gonna happen, I think it might be time for other classes to have their day in the sun. It's getting a bit boring to fight 4-5 GWF parties roaring everywhere and so on. My tolerance for GWF (which I mained before this module) has become so low after everybody started to run troll comps of "Look ma', I bought all the elixirs in the AH and brought my big sword friends too" that I returned to my TR. GWF feels stupid OP right now.
If you ask for some balancing, I am sure it will come and hit GWFs and CWs. But to ask for the removement of sprint or unstopable is just a unrealistic fantasy. No amount of arguments, rage or whining will make the devs change basic class mechanics.
Take TR for an example. They nerfed his dmg multiple times but never stealth or ITC.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
0
psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If you ask for some balancing, I am sure it will come and hit GWFs and CWs. But to ask for the removement of sprint or unstopable is just a unrealistic fantasy. No amount of arguments, rage or whining will make the devs change basic class mechanics.
Take TR for an example. They nerfed his dmg multiple times but never stealth or ITC.
Do you really think? Because I'm losing hope that cryptic want to do something about.
As I said already, when I was playing rift, every weekly patch bring a ton of little adjustment to class balance. Lower that cooldown, rise the damage on that skill, and so on.
Here every change to a class seems to be a pain in the *** for cryptic to make. And then when they at last decide to do something about class balance, we have more problems then before
I think I'm not the only one to think that they seem not to care about balance.
Thing is, it's been many, many months now since GWF is pretty much best or tied-best class in PvP. Starting with the Tenebrous period, their supremacy never ended and each and every attempt to fix/nerf actually resulted in a buff for the class. Meanwhile, TRs have been constantly nerfed successfully, CWs and DCs have lost a lot due to Tenacity as well, HRs... well, they tried to nerf, and in the end they messed it up badly lol.
So even if perfect balance is never gonna happen, I think it might be time for other classes to have their day in the sun. It's getting a bit boring to fight 4-5 GWF parties roaring everywhere and so on. My tolerance for GWF (which I mained before this module) has become so low after everybody started to run troll comps of "Look ma', I bought all the elixirs in the AH and brought my big sword friends too" that I returned to my TR. GWF feels stupid OP right now.
Totally agree, I main my GF and hop on CW trying to maintain same gs content. But if they cannot see that the GWF has taken over the game in almost every capacity ~ they're blind!
GWF were given to many tools! You don't give a class a way to counter every class in any situation?
CW~ Should be great DPS and control but squishy and easy to kill and must kite to live
GF~ Should be low DPS but stern hard as hell to kill soaks monster amounts of damage DPS classes should think of him as a Blood Dk and just ignore him cc him until the other players a killed
GWF~ Should be great DPS / Off tank can soak some damage but 50% of what the GF can because of his weakened defense he should rely on High offense, escaping or deflecting.
HR~ Should be ranged sniper, holding people afar with roots and snares but leather type armor low defense relies on defelcting, and dissappearing traps and tricks.
DC~ Should be hard to kill shielding themselves and knocking people away, healing themselves and party members
TR~ Should be almost same as a HR low defense relies on deflecting, evading, vanishing and do great DPS skuling around in Stealth looking for weakened players.
Right now GWF can soak massive damage, do massive damage, have great Mobility while maintaining superior control?
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2014
Sooo... this whole thing was just only about GFs wanting to have GWFs nerfed so you've been whining about this rather than looking forward to the up coming buffs to the GF class the Devs are looking into.
When will you ever learn, cutting down some other class will not suddenly and mysteriously make you wanted... OR effective again...
Sooo... this whole thing was just only about GFs wanting to have GWFs nerfed so you've been whining about this rather than looking forward to the up coming buffs to the GF class the Devs are looking into.
When will you ever learn, cutting down some other class will not suddenly and mysteriously make you wanted... OR effective again...
I didn't start the thread, and no its about balancing GWF because other then a really good TR or crazy good HR they defeat everyone else with ease....
When will you learn that playing God Mode, is not fun for the rest of the player base!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Well if they hadn't nerfed these classes in the first place.. you wouldn't be in those shoes would you?
GWFs only "appear" godlike because those other classes have been nerfed to death with a complete lack of understanding of any kind of balance.
Go back and remove those nerfs... and that "godmode" dries up and disappears in a heartbeat...
If you wouldn't keep causing your own problems with these incessant and useless nerfs that only make the situation worse...
You wouldn't be in those shoes now.
Ok, im with ya reverse engineering... That would be great! but until then the GWF is too powerful. Sorry, thats just the facts. Or do you actually think every player in Opvp / Domination is just a bad player everyone of them?
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
and when was this, before or after destroyer buf is fixed, had sometimes higher then 20k takedowns, but don`t know what gear they had.
it`s kind of useless or too time consuming when not knowing all detailes which mather in the discussion.
so much can play a role in it, like other peoples buf debufs, etc.
LMFAO, Ripsyourlips, if ur getting hit for 28k IBS your just plain bad.
0
psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ok, im with ya reverse engineering... That would be great! but until then the GWF is too powerful. Sorry, thats just the facts. Or do you actually think every player in Opvp / Domination is just a bad player everyone of them?
Silverquick has his own vision on this matter. He's delusional and will repeat ad nauseam that nerf are the root cause of all evil. It's a soldier, he want to see big number!! He want to kill everything with ease.
GWF does not need balancing considering HR is the most OP class in the game currently, with Bugged Feats, BUgged Powers, too much regen ( more then GWF's). 4 set bonus that regens 2% of max HP everytime they deflecct ( LOL ).
GWF does not need balancing considering HR is the most OP class in the game currently, with Bugged Feats, BUgged Powers, too much regen ( more then GWF's). 4 set bonus that regens 2% of max HP everytime they deflecct ( LOL ).
HR is the most OP class in the game currently
HR also need toning down and we hear they will be, this thread is about GWF as the title suggest stay on topic and YES the GWF needs to be toned down also.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
GWF does not need balancing considering HR is the most OP class in the game currently, with Bugged Feats, BUgged Powers, too much regen ( more then GWF's). 4 set bonus that regens 2% of max HP everytime they deflecct ( LOL ).
HR is the most OP class in the game currently
HR IS getting nerfed. Set-bonus is going to be useless. So you'll just have to come up for some other excuse to not nerf your GWF.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
0
zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
HR also need toning down and we hear they will be, this thread is about GWF as the title suggest stay on topic and YES the GWF needs to be toned down also.
OO Hey coming from the guy who plays an HR wants us to get OFF the topic of the HR, i understand i understand.
HOw about this....HOw about you go back to the original x10 GWF threads that youve been commenting on and stay on those topics, since your obviously here everyday commenting on GWF threads.
BUt Yes again, HR is Obviously currently the most OP class in the game.
Considering their Bugged feats, BUgged abilities with GReater plague fire.
and not to mention the MOST REGEN in the whole GAME.
Their Daily Heals them to FULL 100% health.
Bugged 4 piece set bonus (2% of ur max HP HEAL everytime you deflect ( LOL ).
and soulforged. so HR has about 3 Lives.
Comments
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Guardian_Fighter_Class_Guide
" The Guardian Fighter is the undeniable leader of a Neverwinter dungeon party. Always willing to selflessly sacrifice his or her body for the safety of the party, they are first to charge into combat and draw enemies’ attention. Giving the rest of the party time to react. "
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I'm one of the few CW players who think CWs damage needs to be toned down, aoe wise (some single target need buffs for pvp though, like prone on repel).
I mean a CW does huge damage, AND it does tons of +damage debuffs AND locks down enemies better than any other class.
GWFs are overpowered in PvE not because of their damage (they should do alot of damage, because of their role) but they are near invincible (with some gear) Clerics become a wasted slot.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
GWF guide: click me
While that is indeed insightful, allow me to quote what precedes that..
"The Guardian Fighter is courageous and stalwart, superior at defensive maneuvers, and no stranger to hand-to-hand combat. Heavy plate armor and a shield make the Guardian Fighter a durable mainstay on the battlefield, while a trusty longsword and focused aggression cut through foes that stand in the way. Some fighters choose to rely on large imposing weapons, others prefer dirty tricks"
Sounds like a tank to me..
In PVE that's fine, but in PVP it means the damage that was previously coming from a bleed and borked mitigation reduction is being channeled into instant-hitting attacks.
Burst damage is king in PVP. Combine the fact that you can't mitigate burst damage because it happens instantly with a class that can CC the hell out of you so you can't prevent it then you've got a problem.
I wasn't saying the GF wasn't a tank? I was saying he is considered a Leader class even back in D&D.
EDIT: This was way off topic, sorry for the derail, we got on class roles subject...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
our "tank" would be conditional (Arguably below the gf, but still existing) and even iv had little mobility.
ps: still do not understand the argument "gwf took the role of gf". gwf is a "tough dps" gf a defender. the gwf continues a bad defender, just makes a damage of hell now ... what never was the role of gf.
Thing is, it's been many, many months now since GWF is pretty much best or tied-best class in PvP. Starting with the Tenebrous period, their supremacy never ended and each and every attempt to fix/nerf actually resulted in a buff for the class. Meanwhile, TRs have been constantly nerfed successfully, CWs and DCs have lost a lot due to Tenacity as well, HRs... well, they tried to nerf, and in the end they messed it up badly lol.
So even if perfect balance is never gonna happen, I think it might be time for other classes to have their day in the sun. It's getting a bit boring to fight 4-5 GWF parties roaring everywhere and so on. My tolerance for GWF (which I mained before this module) has become so low after everybody started to run troll comps of "Look ma', I bought all the elixirs in the AH and brought my big sword friends too" that I returned to my TR. GWF feels stupid OP right now.
Take TR for an example. They nerfed his dmg multiple times but never stealth or ITC.
Do you really think? Because I'm losing hope that cryptic want to do something about.
As I said already, when I was playing rift, every weekly patch bring a ton of little adjustment to class balance. Lower that cooldown, rise the damage on that skill, and so on.
Here every change to a class seems to be a pain in the *** for cryptic to make. And then when they at last decide to do something about class balance, we have more problems then before
I think I'm not the only one to think that they seem not to care about balance.
Totally agree, I main my GF and hop on CW trying to maintain same gs content. But if they cannot see that the GWF has taken over the game in almost every capacity ~ they're blind!
GWF were given to many tools! You don't give a class a way to counter every class in any situation?
CW~ Should be great DPS and control but squishy and easy to kill and must kite to live
GF~ Should be low DPS but stern hard as hell to kill soaks monster amounts of damage DPS classes should think of him as a Blood Dk and just ignore him cc him until the other players a killed
GWF~ Should be great DPS / Off tank can soak some damage but 50% of what the GF can because of his weakened defense he should rely on High offense, escaping or deflecting.
HR~ Should be ranged sniper, holding people afar with roots and snares but leather type armor low defense relies on defelcting, and dissappearing traps and tricks.
DC~ Should be hard to kill shielding themselves and knocking people away, healing themselves and party members
TR~ Should be almost same as a HR low defense relies on deflecting, evading, vanishing and do great DPS skuling around in Stealth looking for weakened players.
Right now GWF can soak massive damage, do massive damage, have great Mobility while maintaining superior control?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
When will you ever learn, cutting down some other class will not suddenly and mysteriously make you wanted... OR effective again...
I didn't start the thread, and no its about balancing GWF because other then a really good TR or crazy good HR they defeat everyone else with ease....
When will you learn that playing God Mode, is not fun for the rest of the player base!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Well if they hadn't nerfed these classes in the first place.. you wouldn't be in those shoes would you?
GWFs only "appear" godlike because those other classes have been nerfed to death with a complete lack of understanding of any kind of balance.
Go back and remove those nerfs... and that "godmode" dries up and disappears in a heartbeat...
If you wouldn't keep causing your own problems with these incessant and useless nerfs that only make the situation worse...
You wouldn't be in those shoes now.
Ok, im with ya reverse engineering... That would be great! but until then the GWF is too powerful. Sorry, thats just the facts. Or do you actually think every player in Opvp / Domination is just a bad player everyone of them?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
LMFAO, Ripsyourlips, if ur getting hit for 28k IBS your just plain bad.
Silverquick has his own vision on this matter. He's delusional and will repeat ad nauseam that nerf are the root cause of all evil. It's a soldier, he want to see big number!! He want to kill everything with ease.
HR is the most OP class in the game currently
HR also need toning down and we hear they will be, this thread is about GWF as the title suggest stay on topic and YES the GWF needs to be toned down also.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
The answer is obviously yes.
Everyone is, or should, agree. Except dev maybe, like usually.. :rolleyes:
And im so tired if these "fight" when GWF rush you and cc-prone you to death in 2 sec.
When was GF nerfed? What are you talking about?
You've gone and lost your mind, Son. You are HIGH. AGAIN.
HR IS getting nerfed. Set-bonus is going to be useless. So you'll just have to come up for some other excuse to not nerf your GWF.
They weren'y nerf only our armor set. i remember when stalwart was so good it out performs every T2 sets.
https://twitter.com/chrismeyer33/status/477574939428405248
I don't know why people are blahblahblah should they be... they will be. Just have to wait it out.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Eh, there may have been some GF nerf in the distant past, but Silverquick is trying to say that nerfs are the reason GWF is God-Mode.
I can't picture any previous version of GF in any kind of armor standing up to current GWFs.
Except when things get nerfed into uselessness.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Yes I pointed those out the other day... Anyway be nice to have some info on said changes??????? I have messaged Chris to no avail!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
OO Hey coming from the guy who plays an HR wants us to get OFF the topic of the HR, i understand i understand.
HOw about this....HOw about you go back to the original x10 GWF threads that youve been commenting on and stay on those topics, since your obviously here everyday commenting on GWF threads.
BUt Yes again, HR is Obviously currently the most OP class in the game.
Considering their Bugged feats, BUgged abilities with GReater plague fire.
and not to mention the MOST REGEN in the whole GAME.
Their Daily Heals them to FULL 100% health.
Bugged 4 piece set bonus (2% of ur max HP HEAL everytime you deflect ( LOL ).
and soulforged. so HR has about 3 Lives.
Easily the most OP class in the game currently.
HR needs a nerf, not GWF.