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Suggestion: Heroic Encounter Rewards

zomdzomd Member Posts: 166 Arc User
edited June 2014 in PvE Discussion
The rewards are calculated by some dark voodoo* and the way people engage them tends to make it difficult to compete. No matter how many times someone could do a heroic encounter they may never get the items they want or need. In my case I'd like to get the Elk Tribe weapons but I've only received Tribe Weapons not for my class. Are DC/GF's at a significant disadvantage? We don't know because of the calculations are opaque.

Why not create a new vendor or add a tab to something like Frozen Expeditions--perhaps it even unlocks. This tab would have specific rewards from heroic encounters that people need: bracers, main hands, crafting components, etc. Then for anyone that's gets a reward above 25 black ice in one of the moderately difficult encounters give them a reward token in addition to their rewards. Then they can turn in those reward tokens for the items they would like to get.

That way, even if the RNG hates them or they can't quite make it to a high enough contribution amount, they can at least work toward those rewards anyway.

I don't know what the prices should be but I'd suggest:

Green black ice crafting components: 10 tokens per item.
Blue Black ice crafting components: 25 tokens per item.
Epic Black ice crafting components: 50 tokens per item.
Epic Black Ice bracers: 50 tokens
Epic Black Ice Main-Hand: 75 tokens.
Elk Tribe Off-Hand: 85 tokens.
Elk Tribe Main-Hand: 100 tokens.

**Edit: And Hammerstone Gear: 50-75 tokens per item.

Tokens would be rewarded on moderate Heroic Encounters and above.

Anyway, each token basically is 1 moderately difficult heroic encounter with an above 25 black ice contribution. That seems pretty fair.

*Based on my play, I'm not sure this is working as intended anyway where some abilities don't count as much as they should (like Split the Sky).
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • silverquicksilverquick Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Well now that they've increased the spawn rate of the Heroic Encounters,

    Things are thinning out a little more. So you're not having 1000 people spamming an encounter as much. Granted at times you still do, but it is thinning out a bit. Remorhaz still gets spammed,

    But I've been doing a lot of encounters lately with only a 3 man squad which were the only people there at the time for the Medium encounters.

    I even did the Black Ice Beholder with a 4 man crew once so things are starting to thin out at least marginally. Admittedly that's kind of the way we did it on Preview and it gets pretty tense, but it works.

    The increase spawn rate has helped a great deal. Though this being the weekend and such, I imagine there's more players on than normally as well.
  • haven112haven112 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Yeah... about that. Cryptic would never be so nice. We must all farm to infinity. I get lucky once and get my black ice main hand then nothing. Lovely Cryptic. Good job. Love the game. All I need is the black ice bracers, but no matter how many remorhaz I killed or prospecters I saved, they won't drop. I even did some prospectors with very few people in icewind pass but NOPE. Cryptic won't allow it. He has to do get it during a zerg rush with 40+ people!

    But apart from my rant, please Cryptic. Make something like this. Make people who are unlucky happy. Or else the rage will continue on the forums to infinity and beyond! Forever and ever! Do what you did with the April Fool's event, where everyone can get the slime and adorable pocket pet if they play enough times to get the necessary tokens.

    MAKE TOKENS A REALITY.... because suggesting to them that you make the droppable items BoE instead of BoP is blashpemy according to cryptic! Even for super duper rare items that never drop! Even though SOMEHOW people are getting x5 bracers and x9 main hand. That's ridiculous.
  • cayappcayapp Member Posts: 826 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Well not sure it is a consolation but I have almost stopped doing all encounters that drop black ice gear as a courtesy as I have gotten all the drops I wanted, to allow others the chance. I will jump in when I run across an undermanned encounter that is struggling though.
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Frankly, I don't understand why the devs can't issues reward in a fair manner, based upon damage dealt, damage healed ON OTHERS, and damage soaked...
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  • empalasempalas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 802 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I have generally been playing my GWF and have gotten about 5 epic Elk Tribe pieces for other classes. I haven't played my DC much and already have both the BI gauntlets and sceptre and I don't believe they were from the Epic HE's either. They were from the medium ones and I was like what???? And yes I am sure of that.
  • suddenlyslowsuddenlyslow Member Posts: 818 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    bioshrike wrote: »
    Frankly, I don't understand why the devs can't issues reward in a fair manner, based upon damage dealt, damage healed ON OTHERS, and damage soaked...

    Likely because some classes are not good at any of those things.
  • haven112haven112 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    empalas wrote: »
    I have generally been playing my GWF and have gotten about 5 epic Elk Tribe pieces for other classes. I haven't played my DC much and already have both the BI gauntlets and sceptre and I don't believe they were from the Epic HE's either. They were from the medium ones and I was like what???? And yes I am sure of that.

    Easy for you to say. You're a GWF....
  • dardovedardove Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    bioshrike wrote: »
    Frankly, I don't understand why the devs can't issues reward in a fair manner, based upon damage dealt, damage healed ON OTHERS, and damage soaked...

    They did increase the amount of points gained from healing and damage taken once during testing. However I think they also need to reducing points from personal healing to counter the effects of LS.
  • groarkgroark Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I am a bit surprised reading here that you all are getting valuable items from encounters because the only thing I get from them is black ice.... :( Am I doing somithing wrong??
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    dardove wrote: »
    They did increase the amount of points gained from healing and damage taken once during testing. However I think they also need to reducing points from personal healing to counter the effects of LS.

    Is the game able to distinguish healing done by another player, vs healing form lifesteal/potions/regen/your own companions?
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  • haven112haven112 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    prettycelt wrote: »
    No, the drops are so absurdly random as to be pointless. I've lost track of the number of times I've received a mere 25 Black Ice from an Epic-level Heroic, and then received Black Ice enchantments or Profession ingredients from a lesser encounter. As I stated, I have yet to find any epic gear from a Heroic encounter, period, and not for a lack of trying. Hours of my life I'll never get back for virtually zero return.

    If there were some sort of points or coins with which we could just outright buy the Black Ice Gloves, I'd have accumulated it three times over by now. Meanwhile I know folks who have gotten three and four pairs of the gloves who don't even want them. Not sure who wrote these algorithms but personally I want them in the electric chair.

    ^^^^ This comment. I fully agree with your statement. After the magical Cryptic Troll patch that happened. The drops became WAY lower. Either that or I must've been extremely lucky when I got my main hand for a major and not epic encounter. After that I only got crappy ingredient items and have yet to find a purple glove/bracer whatever it's called. Please make the tokens become a reality. Don't be torturers Cryptic. I've simply loved your game... up until now.
  • mircalla83mircalla83 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 36
    edited May 2014
    Easiest way to get them to listen: No more AD to Zen, no more Zen purchases or 'Earning', and refuse to play the content.
  • radtatatradtatat Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 201
    edited May 2014
    I got a few gloves and weapons for my toons. They were all from HEs that were not overcrowded (HE with less than 10 people)
    I got lots of 25/35 BI rewards too and they are usually from HEs with lots of players, no matter how long or how much damage/healing I did.

    Hence the number of players per HE is an important factor to the quality of rewards, as mentioned by one of the Devs in another thread.

    The sad thing is we have no control over zerging. Yes, we can avoid that ourselves, but with the inability to change instance, and with major/epic HE spawning every 30 mins to 60 mins, it is hard to avoid zerging as everyone wants a piece of the pie. The low drop rates of weapons and gloves does not help either.

    Zerging will only get worse when more players are qualified to get into IWD. Like Cayapp, I have stopped joining HEs when my toons get what he/she needs.

    I think something more permanent has to be done to resolve zerging...
  • theskymovestheskymoves Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    groark wrote: »
    I am a bit surprised reading here that you all are getting valuable items from encounters because the only thing I get from them is black ice.... :( Am I doing somithing wrong??

    I've gotten the odd BI enchant and a potion or two, but black ice is all I'm getting, too. (Or rather, was getting, since I've decided that IWD is neither fun and nor worth the time sink.)
  • crazymikeecrazymikee Member Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    i ran into an epic encounter hit one enemy and it ended and i got a remoraz bile xD definatly random from what i can tell
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  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    crazymikee wrote: »
    i ran into an epic encounter hit one enemy and it ended and i got a remoraz bile xD definatly random from what i can tell
    It's contribution-based. If two players kill the boss then they both contributed 50%. If those two players invite 98 other players from other instances, everyones contribution goes down to 1%, meaning no one gets the epic reward.
    It's the cross instance invites that are killing this concept.
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  • haven112haven112 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Cryptic should not allow others to join the instance once an epic encounter occurs. That would solve the cross instance invites.
  • loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    prettycelt wrote: »
    SOMETHING has to be changed. As I have been given to understand, apparently Black Ice Gloves will only drop from Remorhaz or Raid the Raiders....

    The Gloves drop in the 150 Black Ice "category". You can get 150 for medium encounters, so it should be possible. There is quite a confusion because the tool tip of the Gloves themselves say they Drop in Icewind Pass while the collection states Dwarven Valley. I got mine in IP.

    Concerning the reward system: I think whoever buffs/debuffs should also receive a portion of the additional damage it creates. DCs and GFs are the strongest utility classes, they can raise stats and debuff targets. So it would be only fair if a CW/GWF, who would not be doing these insane orange numbers without them, contributed a bit of its damage to the source.

    As far as I understand, there is no incentive right now to apply debuffs to HEs as low damage class. You're effectively pushing yourself further away from better loot.
  • empalasempalas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 802 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    haven112 wrote: »
    Easy for you to say. You're a GWF....

    My point was for my GWF I haven't been lucky at all...my DC got the drops quickly with only doing the HE's while I was doing dailies...with my GWF I have done about 10 times as many HE's and all I have gotten is gear that I can salvage and that's it. I really want the gear for my GWF but oh well. I have all 6 classes at 60 but I just like the GWF I guess because I like to solo play a lot.

    I guess all of the healing I did with my DC got me the gear or something because it definitely wasn't my damage output.
  • tickdofftickdoff Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    mrspidey2 wrote: »
    It's contribution-based. If two players kill the boss then they both contributed 50%. If those two players invite 98 other players from other instances, everyones contribution goes down to 1%, meaning no one gets the epic reward.
    It's the cross instance invites that are killing this concept.

    I am not sure about that. I was in a HUGE group killing the Beholder, at least 30 of us (possibly all 38 people that were in the zone) and I got my gloves. And then got them again doing the prospector attack HE later that day again with a TON of people there. And for the 2nd mission I was only in the fight for a short amount of time, I only got to the fight as the final boss was spawning and did not contribute much.

    (and I was not zoning there specifically to fight that encounter, I was just logging back into the game after eating, not switching instances for more chances at HEs)
  • haven112haven112 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    If you're not a CW or a GWF, good luck getting them it seems :/. Just like me. I've been working my butt off and still can't get it as a TR! Sure, we have lashing blade, but that's it! We can't compete with AoE attacks!
  • silverquicksilverquick Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    empalas wrote: »
    My point was for my GWF I haven't been lucky at all...my DC got the drops quickly with only doing the HE's while I was doing dailies...with my GWF I have done about 10 times as many HE's and all I have gotten is gear that I can salvage and that's it. I really want the gear for my GWF but oh well. I have all 6 classes at 60 but I just like the GWF I guess because I like to solo play a lot.

    I guess all of the healing I did with my DC got me the gear or something because it definitely wasn't my damage output.

    Well for the record,

    We made a big deal about this in Preview and making sure the Cleric was well accounted for in the HEs and their damage contribution. We felt it wasn't fair they were the ones buffing and healing us and not doing the damage, and felt they should get credit for their contribution.

    So it does not surprise me to find out that as a Cleric you were able to get yours rapidly.
  • loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    zomd wrote: »
    Green black ice crafting components: 10 tokens per item.
    Blue Black ice crafting components: 25 tokens per item.
    Epic Black ice crafting components: 50 tokens per item.
    Epic Black Ice bracers: 50 tokens
    Epic Black Ice Main-Hand: 75 tokens.
    Elk Tribe Off-Hand: 85 tokens.
    Elk Tribe Main-Hand: 100 tokens.

    This btw is an excellent idea that has been brought up but sadly ignored so far. It works great for CtA, why not make this the standard? Same btw. goes for the MC/VT Off-Hands. Make them available for Seals.

    Such a system takes out worst and best case scenarios. Now someone can get the stuff after 1 or 99 runs while in a reward based system you would get your stuff around 50. It's fair game.
  • harrivengerharrivenger Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    prettycelt wrote: »
    No, the drops are so absurdly random as to be pointless. I've lost track of the number of times I've received a mere 25 Black Ice from an Epic-level Heroic, and then received Black Ice enchantments or Profession ingredients from a lesser encounter. As I stated, I have yet to find any epic gear from a Heroic encounter, period, and not for a lack of trying. Hours of my life I'll never get back for virtually zero return.

    If there were some sort of points or coins with which we could just outright buy the Black Ice Gloves, I'd have accumulated it three times over by now. Meanwhile I know folks who have gotten three and four pairs of the gloves who don't even want them. Not sure who wrote these algorithms but personally I want them in the electric chair.

    Same here. Over the weekend I have am doing those Epic Heroic Encounter with timer (Supposed to be the toughest HE) and all I got was just Black Ice and sometimes Blue Black Ice Enchantment or Professional Ingredients. Guess I didn't grind hard enough. :(
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  • rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    For me Module 3 is a major fail in how you get items. I'll just go back to not playing and hope that Module 4 is better. At least with Dread Ring as a casual player if you only had 20 minutes to play a day you know you'd get an item eventually it was just a matter of time. The whole reason I bothered with Neverwinter to begin with was that it was pretty casual friendly. This expansion is geared more towards people decked out in Tier 2 gear and crazy gearscores. Which is fine because they are players too and why not make some content for them. I just hope that this isn't the direction every module pushes because if so I won't be spending much time (or money) here. I've participated in dozens of purple/blue Heroic Encounters and have gotten squat for it. I don't expect to see an item every time but how it is now it just feels like swimming against the current and I have better things to spend my time on.
  • js3bjs3b Member Posts: 368 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I have been farming HE's for 2 week now, doing a minimum of 5 HE (remo/beholder/prospector attack) per day, and still have no weapon... The hell !?
    Founder back a week ago, already pissed by cryptic ''no roll back'' decision


  • avalonna43avalonna43 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    It may be theory, but we seem to have much better luck when we've been grouped up - The RNG gods prefer to spit on me as a DC, and ever since my guildies and I have decided to group up when we do our quests/heroic runs, we've managed to get almost everyone their gloves/main hand. But again, this could just be one of those one "hey this worked for us" things and we were just so relieved , we're grasping at straws for anything that appears to work in this crappy system.

    However, when I go it alone, even if I show up first and give it EVERYTHING I have, I'm lucky if I get more than 75 ice and a potion. But Hey, Cryptic did fix the ears clipping trough helmets.:rolleyes:
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