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Issues in PvP Domination for Mod 3
velynna
Member Posts: 336 Arc User
Here are some things of the things I'm a bit troubled about:
Being unable to mount up a while after combat. This makes crucial rotations nearly impossible. For example, as a DC, it's important for to me to be able to rotate efficiently. It's incredibly frustrating to spend the entire time going from mid to a different cap by walking, as someone is dying. When our players clear home, it also takes them a while to get to mid to assist there; in the meantime, those who spawned can quickly rotate back to their points on their mounts. Good to know how useful it is to invest in a fast mount that many times can't even between caps.
IBS is crazy. As a DC with over 38k HP, ~2k defense, ~43% DR, and 34 AC, I can nearly die to a GWF's rotation. I've seen it hit me many times for 15+k. It feels like SE was given to GWFs as an encounter, which they can combo with their prones so that it becomes incredibly difficult/impossible to avoid.
(Maybe these are issues that hurt mainly DCs? Because the ability to rotate fast to heal is important to our roles, and the ability of GWFs to kill DCs 1v1 in 1-2 rotations is pretty devastating to the class.)
Being unable to mount up a while after combat. This makes crucial rotations nearly impossible. For example, as a DC, it's important for to me to be able to rotate efficiently. It's incredibly frustrating to spend the entire time going from mid to a different cap by walking, as someone is dying. When our players clear home, it also takes them a while to get to mid to assist there; in the meantime, those who spawned can quickly rotate back to their points on their mounts. Good to know how useful it is to invest in a fast mount that many times can't even between caps.
IBS is crazy. As a DC with over 38k HP, ~2k defense, ~43% DR, and 34 AC, I can nearly die to a GWF's rotation. I've seen it hit me many times for 15+k. It feels like SE was given to GWFs as an encounter, which they can combo with their prones so that it becomes incredibly difficult/impossible to avoid.
(Maybe these are issues that hurt mainly DCs? Because the ability to rotate fast to heal is important to our roles, and the ability of GWFs to kill DCs 1v1 in 1-2 rotations is pretty devastating to the class.)
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As for respawners getting to a cap faster- the mounting prevention persists through death, so unless they get a long respawn, they won't be able to mount right away.
I'd say being able to nearly one-rotation others in exchange for losing the amount of tankiness GWFs lost isn't a particularly balanced trade-off. (They can still be reasonably tanky by slotting defensive jewelry/belt with radiants).
And true -individuals can also be prevented from mounting up after the respawn. Also annoying.
Pointless in 1vs1 encounters. Equipped with the game's most powerful and easy-mode CCs, and multiple of them at that, worrying about the squishiness comes AFTER you've cut them down less than 50% HP during the first 5 secs of combat.
Good luck exploiting the new, bit-more-squishiness of the GWFs when you're down to 12k HP during the first 5 secs. Oooh! The new GWFs are more squishy! I'm only 12k HP left but I'm sure I can blow off his 35k HP and win!
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
We also no longer use weapon master so that's 10% crit chance gone.
To utilize the build properly, you must run with higher armor pen and recovery, so you're unable to stack crit or deflect much. So you lose even more deflect/defense you have to give up.
Also running Heroic Duelist is non-optimal so you don't have that 2x regen going on.
To get full benefit of the IBS, you have to have your opponent below 50%, so if your first 2 encounters don't crit, this usually won't happen. Of course, lower HP you have, the more it does. However, if you have only 15k health left, does it matter whether the damage is 16k or 35k? You're still dead. So like shocking execution, you're seeing large numbers but the effect is that if you go under a certain percentage it's a near guaranteed kill no matter how weird the number works.
The thing is, at 80% health I don't get full benefit of the feat and so I've seen my IBS go pretty low because of that. (3k?) Also, if you deflect it, it goes down pretty low again.
Honestly, I don't really like the build. It's too much of a gamble and sentinel is clearly better for pvp. I cannot hold nodes anymore as a destroyer (my name Hold My Node doesn't really make too much sense lol), and if I don't get a bit lucky with you not deflecting and me critting, I can lose really easily. If anything, I'm more concerned with the DC artifact which allows people to do 2 shocking executions within 15 seconds.
If you guys are mad about the build, don't worry. I'm sure we'll all switch back to sentinel once we're tired of being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 2v1 in like 5 seconds.
Still at least as tanky as a DC in a 2v1, except you can basically kill someone in one-rotation and we would never be able to heal someone to full in one rotation.
Now you can just have TRs and HRs to hold nodes, while you stick a GWF with another DPS class and let them clear whatever node they're on. Because they will, and fairly fast.
And honestly, I thought the whole point of introducing tenacity was to PREVENT this exact thing from happening (players being burst down incredibly fast).
Wouldn't CW be a better floater? The control they can immediately bring from a ranged position can prevent someone from dying. GWF has to run to the target, wait until they can go unstoppable, then they can hit their encounters. The main statute of the build is that your damage is completely dependent on building the stacks of destroyer's purpose while in unstoppable, then with full stacks hit the IBS. So if you come to save someone you won't have the damage output to kill them, and the control is dodgeable, easily recognized. I thought one of the main roles of a floater was to save a dying party member, but this is something a GWF cannot do unless the focus is put on them.
In my experience, the role of a DPS floater isn't about saving someone... It's been about clearing points, putting pressure on certain points, and forcing advantageous encounters. That just sounds really odd to me. But if someone is coming to my rescue, I'd much prefer a GWF than a CW. Not to mention with the time it takes to come to someone's rescue now walk between points, chances are I'll be dead before that floater comes, and regardless of the tankiness the GWF has dropped, they can probably still hold the point longer than a CW. (And the best kind of rescue is killing the enemy that's killing you -I'd rather have the GWF swing by with his one-shot CC rotation than the CW; and the same argument about easily dodgeable control also applies for CWs, except that their rotation is even harder to successfully land than a GWF's).
If you go back to your sentinel tree, I suspect that it will be hugely appreciated by 90% of the pug population, and all DCs and CWs.
It's only really useful in PvE against high HP targets.
I do admit the new mount mechanic isn't balanced between classes and deaths.
Although, I think what will be the real issue in Domination PvP is empowered Black Ice Gear.
speaking of which, aren't gwf's capable of moving as fast as mounts with sprint?
Edit: regarding the mounts - it's kinda annoying, but I think it will lead to a bit more tactical game long-term, which is good.
The part that gets me about the current changes is you can res at campfire and sometimes not be able to mount for a good 5 seconds.
Besides, I always thought mount speed should be capped at +50% in PvP. Less P2W.
Well, to me GWFs always had a nearly one-hit rotation (since I've been playing anyway). I've had deep gash crits go over 10k. That's 10k from a BLEED. Thank God I'll never see that again. And they could reduce my defense by 45% in 3 hits before. Free greater plaguefire, and they could use a greater plaguefire on top of it, turning you into mush. That won't happen anymore either.
Basically, the way I see it:
Before: if you got caught by roar/takedown or frontline surge, you were in for a world of pain.
Now: if you get caught by roar/takedown or frontline surge, you are in for a world of pain.
Not much difference that I see. And it's nice that they're a little easier to kill. All in all, a decent tradeoff IMO.
I can however see how the difference would seem greater to you as a tankier class (DC) who is especially hurt by abilities that scale with missing health. Kind of a 1-2 punch with stealth nerfs to DCs.
The GWF really do hurt a lot more, I have been lucky this first day to have pretty good protection/healing. I can imagine that tomorrow will be more painful.
Nah, the fights would be less dynamic on slower mounts, you'd spend more time traveling between nodes = more boring time and less action.
Moreover the rank 3 mount is not that expensive on AH, the price is comparable to other high end equipment, enchants, etc. Think of it as another essential part of the gear for PvP. You can also get rank 2 horse for ardent coins (= free) and you'd be only in small disadvantage.
And if you're serious about the game, you invest into account-wide rank 3 mount from Zen store, which is what I did - I got the more expensive one in a Zen store sale and when converted through AD exchange it's price was about 1,5 million AD, which is not that much considering it's account-wide unlock. Single high end enchant can cost you half a million AD or more...
Please reverse this never asked for "feature".
As for GWF, yes I can hit huge IBS, even before the buff kicks in. Will probably be back to sentinel once too many people get angry for me being unable to backcap efficiently.
Yes but we need that for the fight or pushing to an end cap...don't want to spend it all just traveling a to b...
A new face to the pvp domination and premades, different way to rotate and makes it flow better, without having the gayness of people almost dying and being healed to full by DC's.
Good job cryptic!
Meatball - Control Wizard
Criminal Cheater - Hunter Ranger
<Enemy Team> Guild Leader.
Or to run away when about to die, lolz
The gayness of a class doing its job? Okay.
This punishes floating class the most like DCs and CWs who don't have feats or abilities to increase their run speed. Of course it's not that devastating to classes like TRs and GWFs. Or if you stack your party with point-holding classes, meaning you don't need to rotate between points that quickly.
We had so many issues in the past: TR that 2-3 shot anything with LB and Impact; GWF that can never be killed 1 v 1 with raven and soulforged while being able to one rotation squishy when crit; TR that can shocking someone from 60% and instantly kill it; DC that can 1 v 1 anything and stay alived; HR with buggy root and crazy CD reduction, etc.
All of the above are quite game breaking.
If you gonna compare to the GWF issue in this patch. I honestly don't even think it deserves to be on the list. Dropping Sent tree normally result to a 5% DR reduced and 15% Deflect lost. Also losing the bonus dmg from marked target. They hit like a truck yeah when they have full stack as a Destroyer. But they also die faster than Sent GWF. Backcapping become a somewhat dangerous task for them if they have no healer in team since a CW would be really effective at taking them down. I would say a good renegade CW would even be able to 1 v 1 a Destroyer GWF. Same goes to some other class.
And the problem with DC is not exactly the Buff to GWF, it is more of a issue within DC itself, you heal less towards yourself. Even before Mod 3 if a Sent GWF have a couple crit within 2 rotations combine with daily you would still die to it anyway.
There are more press issue like CW also hits like a truck with some power build thx to the power revamp. And having 2 cw together can instantly wipe something in one rotation while done in a safe distance( aka a distance that those crazy GWF can't get to ). I am not saying it is a broken thing but it is one of those thing that are as annoying as Destroyer GWF, even just 1 CW still do insane dmg with crit Shard or crit Ray as a renegade, So I really don't see the point to complain GWF unless you wanna complain CW as well.
And just a tip for you, the destroyer stack last 20 sec, so unless you are giving him unstoppable every 20 sec he lose stack and IBS would never hit for 15+ unless he hacks or maybe a 20K HP build. That is for 1 v 1, anything besides that just have too many factors to take into so I can't discuss freely.
It will be intereasting to see how it all pans out, who stays what.
It is true that they hit harder...but with my build I could also take them down effeciently, often times by myself on CW.
Its insainly frustrating to fight a DC 1-1 on a point when all he does is /yawn and continue to heal waiting for some team member to come and kill you :-).
But ofc you are absolutly right. If a DC feat/gear up for heal/defence and are no threath towards killing other players he should be able to outheal their dam in and equal skill gear set up.
There will always be anti classes toward a special class so that they can be killed 1-1 by cw and maby tr isent strange.
But i totally agree with the argument above even if when i play my gwf/hr/gf it makes me want to screem in frustration :-).
Best
True. All these DCs complaining should probably do not know how to gear up properly
uhhh, how do you not give them unstoppable every 20 seconds? i am pretty sure it charges in 5-10 and then i have to start running for my life.
i actually think gwf's are even more of a threat now to rogues. get proned once and you might just lose half your hp (at least b4 i could take more of a beating). before this patch, i actually had a chance to kill them if i dodged well but now......it's just too difficult. especially since all the ones i have been fighting lately have been running away as soon as i use ITC or daze them and i can't out-run them so i just have to wait for them to try again. my only strategy is to just stall for as long as possible with ITC + Dazing + Smoke Bomb and hope someone comes to help me so i can finish him with whirlwind of blades.
it's like what someone else said, shocking execution is dead but it's lethality has been given to gwf's
He's a moron. Morons say moronic things;)