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ITT: You rank TAB and SHIFT abilities of each class from best to worst.
joocycuzzzzzz
Member Posts: 577 Arc User
Class/Tab features: Stealth (NOT perma-stealth, Encounters DO NOT interfer here), Unstoppable, Divinity, Spell Mastery, Stance Switch, Taunt
Mine:
TAB Abilities:
1) Unstoppable (GWF): Hands down the best class ability out of the 6, I admit this despite having CW as my main. You become a beast and are able to face-tank multiple enemies and even hard epic bosses for a short duration. In addition, this is the best class feature to revive fallen party members when there are AOE red circles all over the place, very handy.
2) Stance Switch (HR): 3 Extra encounter powers, which opens a whole new world of combos, sadly most rangers use one or the other. But if a ranger is an hybrid of both, then it's a deadly ranger.
3) Stealth (TR): Being invisible temporarily is a very handy class feature, openers form stealth are nasty.
4) Divinity (DC) : Increases the effectiveness of a DC, very handy to keep party alive and whatnot
5) Spell Mastery (CW): A 4th Encounter (A boosted one). This is cool and all, but it's way below the stance change which gives the rangers two extra abilities (Non-boosted but still). I'm pretty sure CW's can still dominate PVE even without a 4th Encounter. I wish our tab power was infinite Arcane Singularity with cooldown (Not-serious... Semi-serious).
6) Taunt (GF): This ability needs a serious rework, nuff said.
SHIFT abilities:
1) Hunter Ranger's dodge: This might seem surprising, but it's the best. 6 dodges, which means you can evade 3-encounters + 1 daily. And even evade a fellow ranger's combo if you time it correctly. People on the forums are already crying about HR's dodge asking for nerf.
2) Control Wizard's blink : Pretty much annoys everyone especially melee classes. They have 3 dodges and their stamina regenerates fast. If you time this correctly, you can indefinitely evade attacks.
3) Guardian Fighter's Block: The only ability that can easily stop the broken Shocking Execution, nuff said. In PVE, it's handy if said GF's shield is resistant, enemies (PVP) can also just go behind the guardian fighter and prone/CC him to death. Ranked 3rd only if the GF is skilled.
4) TR's Dodge / Cleric's Dash: Both are equal, and can evade attacks pretty nicely.
5) GWF's sprint: Handy for movement and evading delayed attacks in PVE. But pretty much useless (For dodging, it's good for gap-closing obviously) in PVP since GWF's cannot dodge.
Post yours/discuss.
Mine:
TAB Abilities:
1) Unstoppable (GWF): Hands down the best class ability out of the 6, I admit this despite having CW as my main. You become a beast and are able to face-tank multiple enemies and even hard epic bosses for a short duration. In addition, this is the best class feature to revive fallen party members when there are AOE red circles all over the place, very handy.
2) Stance Switch (HR): 3 Extra encounter powers, which opens a whole new world of combos, sadly most rangers use one or the other. But if a ranger is an hybrid of both, then it's a deadly ranger.
3) Stealth (TR): Being invisible temporarily is a very handy class feature, openers form stealth are nasty.
4) Divinity (DC) : Increases the effectiveness of a DC, very handy to keep party alive and whatnot
5) Spell Mastery (CW): A 4th Encounter (A boosted one). This is cool and all, but it's way below the stance change which gives the rangers two extra abilities (Non-boosted but still). I'm pretty sure CW's can still dominate PVE even without a 4th Encounter. I wish our tab power was infinite Arcane Singularity with cooldown (Not-serious... Semi-serious).
6) Taunt (GF): This ability needs a serious rework, nuff said.
SHIFT abilities:
1) Hunter Ranger's dodge: This might seem surprising, but it's the best. 6 dodges, which means you can evade 3-encounters + 1 daily. And even evade a fellow ranger's combo if you time it correctly. People on the forums are already crying about HR's dodge asking for nerf.
2) Control Wizard's blink : Pretty much annoys everyone especially melee classes. They have 3 dodges and their stamina regenerates fast. If you time this correctly, you can indefinitely evade attacks.
3) Guardian Fighter's Block: The only ability that can easily stop the broken Shocking Execution, nuff said. In PVE, it's handy if said GF's shield is resistant, enemies (PVP) can also just go behind the guardian fighter and prone/CC him to death. Ranked 3rd only if the GF is skilled.
4) TR's Dodge / Cleric's Dash: Both are equal, and can evade attacks pretty nicely.
5) GWF's sprint: Handy for movement and evading delayed attacks in PVE. But pretty much useless (For dodging, it's good for gap-closing obviously) in PVP since GWF's cannot dodge.
Post yours/discuss.
Beta player
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
Post edited by joocycuzzzzzz on
0
Comments
1.) Unstoppable (gwf).
2.) Arcane Mastery (CW) It is a fourth encounter slot. That alone puts it near the top of the list; encounter slots are limited in number and unwieldy to quickly switch out specifically to maintain class balance. The extra slot is huge. It is not just an extra slot, but a slot that makes whatever encounter you put in it, uber. It takes more skill on the part of the player to really, REALLY, get it right.
3.) Stealth (TR). The win button. I hate it in pvp vs TR's, but I love it in pvp on my own TR, and I really love it in pve.
4.) Stance switch (HR). Like CW, the tab for HR takes some skill to master it. But when you do master it, or get pretty good at it, it is almost as good as stealth, and maybe better than Arcane Mastery. Better than Arcane Mastery because it gives you essentially THREE more encounters. That gets a little complicated, but there you go- it takes some skill.
5) Taunt (GF). The top 4 tabs would fall into the 90-100 range in a 1-100 power ranking. Tab for GF falls at about a 2. It is easily literally 45 times worse than the next best tab. Useless garbage and part of what makes the class so undesirable to many players compared to other classes.
Shift
1) Block (GF). GF suffers a horrible tab ability but enjoys the best shift ability imo. It stops any kind of incoming damage or control effect. It is better than unstoppable even. Even so, it doesn't make up for the horrible tab ability gf's are given. I would MUCH RATHER GFs have a "martial mastery" button on tab, something equivalent to "arcane mastery".
2.) Dodge (HR) 6 dodges? More like infinite dodges if you are using your tab power effectively. The synergy between tab and shift for the HR is one of the reasons it is such a great class.
3)Blink (CW)
4) Dodge (TR) can refill stealth, a pretty nice evasion.
5.) Sprint (gwf) yep you cant dodge with this, but it is a good gap closer and lets you move as fast as if you were mounted without fear of being auto-proned if your dismounted.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Tab:
-Stealth
-Unstoppable
-Arcane Mastery
-Stance Switch
-Divinity
-Taunt
Shift:
-Block
-Dodge(HR, CW, TR, DC) order depends on whether including TR's interaction with their tab ability
-Sprint
Actually it sounds like you don't know this one very well.
It can either be outstanding... or warrent little more than a golf clap depending on the spell you put in it.
Like Chill Strike it turns from a Single Target Freeze spell into an very damaging AoE spell for lower level play. You can run around one shotting entire groups of Imps with this. Or Sudden Storm becomes not just an extremely damaging spell... but also a DoT. CoI becomes a very large area AoE and adds chill to enemies acting as a slow spell...
So... its not "just" an extra spell, its extra spell power.
But then something like say... Icy Terrain... only puts it in a different spot... so... ermm golf clap here...
So this one can either turn a mediocre spell into a really nasty one... or it can make a mediocre spell... even more mediocre.
tab
1. unstoppable no doubt: more DR, more dmg output(i think), immune to CC. turns a tank into a super tank.
2. stealth: mostly for permas, but stealth + lashing blade is nasty(right now mine can hit for 15k)
3. Stance switch: i love this tab its so great, my personal fav
the rest are whatever, DC divinity is cool but since i mostly pvp its worthless, cw has a 4th spell which is cool...GF...well...
Shift
1.HR: if only for the mobility, 5 shifts plus marauder, plus steel breeze for more stamina regen. not the best for immunity frames however
2.TR: good distance, lots of immunity, add in ITC for more immunity, add in stealth. lots of survivabilty
3.CW: 3 dodges with lots of immunity, but you cant move after you first teleport which allows enemies to catch up
4.GF: dont play but its blocked my SE plenty so it must be good
5.DC: good distance + healing step
6.GWF: not bad for pve, not so much for pvp.
I take it you hate clerics? lol
Where is Divinity and Dash?
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
I've been playing CW since this game was born, it IS an awesome addition but you can't argue that even without it CW's would still dominate PVE. Boosted Spell or not. Don't get the false idea though, I'm not ungrateful, it's just that it's still below most other classes IMO.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
Read the OP. Encounters do not interfere here. It's the ability by itself.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
I think of the "free evasion" function of tr and cw dodge as an extra; it seems you dodge whatever is going on regardless of when you hit shift, until you actually start taking damage. HR dodge is definitely an anticipation dodge. In a fight I actually don't stop dodging unless it is rush/foxshift/steel breeze/escape, which fills back up the stamina (dodge) meter again. Or using ranged encounters, and then back to dodge. Dodge and marauders as the means of movement in a fight, period. The constant dodging means that more likely than not you are going to dodge whatever attack is aimed at you unless you are being targeted by multiple opponents. I have my dodge keybound to my right mouse button. Even capping an uncontested node, I am dodging all around as soon as forest ghost wears off- I know that enemy TR is going to come in and try for an easy kill. Funny how many of the initial kill shots I evade by dodging randomly like that. They waste that encounter and at the very least, extend the time I have to kill them or at least contest the node.
Jugger Conq GF
....
I love good clerics on my team. It is just that I havent played a cleric past level 20. I dont want to speak about things I know very little about, so I left cleric out.
Jugger Conq GF
....
1. Stealth. Many of you could disagree as I see Unstoppable mentioned as the number one pretty often, but Unstoppable gives just temporary increased damage resistance and if GWF is not Sentinel, Unstoppable won't save him. Stealth wouldn't be so OP if there were no encounters (and daily) that can recharge it. Imagine GWF that could recharge his Unstoppable with Encounter powers.
2. Unstoppable. A bit of temp HP, average to high mitigation, CC immunity - not bad actually.
3. Spell Mastery/Stance Switch. Can't decide which is better, because CW gets 4 complete useful abilities, and HR gets 1 good for one stance and 1 average/bad for another. So this is not actually 6 Encounters, more like 4-5.
4. Mark/Divinity. Mark became better after the patch, it adds 8% permanent damage increase, but it's still very subpar. As for DC, well, all their abilities are average/below average when used without Divine mode. Reads like "Hey, let's nerf all DC's abilities and force them to use those in Divine mode or they'll be punished."
Shift.
1. Block. Block mechanics in PvP allows GFs to either block or stunlock their target. GFs are very hard to kill in 1vs1 situations.
2. CW Dodge. Very, insanely, crazy long immunity frame. They can dodge up to 3 abilities in a row with just 1 dodge.
3. HR Dodge. 5 dodges in a row seems OP, but they have very little immunity frame, it mostly "will I be lucky to dodge that ability? *clicks shift* nope, clicked too early/nice, dodged it/ok, dodged CC effect but received damage."
3. DC/TR Dodge. TRs have more stamina regen, but they're actually equal in terms if immunity frame and amount.
4. Sprint. I like how I can control the distance I travel when dodging red areas in PvE, but in PvP Sprint is near useless. Short travel distance, consumes a lot of stamina in comparison to dodges, doesn't give immunity (it says that you ignore slow effects while sprinting, but it's only true, if they were applied to you when you were sprinting, clicking shift doesn't remove slow effects).
My first toon was a GF and tab was so useless I pretty much ignored it. I saw the power of tab on other classes once I rolled them, and havent gone back to gf since.
Jugger Conq GF
....
2) gwf unstoppable - cc immunity, damage reduction, temp hp, attack speed, and damage/healing/ap generation if feated. All with high uptime.
3) cw spell mastery - the extra encounter slot combined with two recovery stats makes CWs minimally dependent on at-wills compared to other classes. Most of the mastery bonuses are fairly minor, but there are a few which are quite good.
4) tr vanilla stealth - more active and fun than perma imo, but still dependent on encounters/dailies to refill the bar in combat. Has no real advantage compared perma stealth and needs some parity.
5) hr weapon swap - would be really good if melee and bow encounters/at-wills were selected separately and the feat lines weren't separated by weapon, but as is you'll usually end up with a bunch of fairly useless stuff on your bar.
6) cleric divinity - it's a mana bar. Encounters are less effective when OOM instead of unusable, but it's still just a mana bar.
also 6) gf mark - when it's not useless it's replaceable by encounter powers or threatening rush.
I find dodging pretty frustrating in this game because the game seems to use server side hit detection and is constantly rubberbanding me back into aoes that I should have avoided.
1) cw dodge - enough uses that with good management one doesn't run out of stamina against single strong enemies, and CWs have plenty of aoe damage and cc to deal with numerous enemies that all be dodged.
2) hr dodge - more uses than cw dodge should make it better, but it's a shorter distance/window which makes it more prone to rubberbanding and harder to use.
3) gf guard - easy to use and high ap generation. Lacks mobilility and leaves you vulnerable when you get overwhelmed, but the extra ap generation helps you deal with those situations.
4) tr/cleric dodge - 2 dodges which work fine. Non-perma WKs lack other defenses and clerics have righteousness reducing their self healing, leaving both of them too dependent on their dodge imo, but the dodge itself is fine.
5) sprint - without damage immunity I just get rubberbanded back into everything, so pretty useless defensively. You need to get hit to build determination anyway.
Tab:
1. CW's Arcane Mastery. Turns CoI into massive AoE murder/chill stack factory. Turns RoE into big ugly debuff. Turns Repel into 'What SP last boss purple frog adds? Oh the ones I just threw into the slime. Forgot about those'. The utility and power added by this font of beautiful brokenness is amazing.
2. GWF's Unstoppable. Red circles? What red circles? Oh these red circles. They're all nice and tickly and warm. CC? What's that?
3. HR's Stance change. More abilities? OK. Sure, a lot of them are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on one or the other, but variety is good and stuff like Marauder's greatly enhances your mobility. Properly feated this can be quite nasty as well, but in a vacuum, it's still more encounter powers to use in a pinch and good utility.
4. TR's Stealth. This is divisive even within my own opinion. Evaluated in a vacuum where no feats, recharge powers, or equipment is thrown into it, Stealth honestly kind of sucks. It's slow to build the meter, the default duration is bad, and any damage taken decreases the meter whether you're in it already or trying to build the meter back up. Most enemies can still detect you in Stealth as well, even if you don't go within visual range. It's good for getting off a single encounter power with a decent Stealth version, or hiding long enough to get a pot off cooldown. Before I respecced my TR a while back to make Stealth useful, it wasn't. I used it for exactly those two things. Now, start throwing feats and recharge powers and gear at it and you get different results, but like the OP said, we're not evaluating it for that, and TBH, all that stuff you need to do to get it working, even outside of permastealth, is fiddly as hell and annoying. Extremely power/feat dependent, but at least the guaranteed CA and the stealth effect for some powers make it somewhat useful in a vacuum.
5. DC's Channel Divinity. Yeah, that power/feat dependency I mentioned for stealth? Same here, and on its own Divinity does very little useful. Finicky meter to manage, Punishing Light/Soothing Light are both pretty crappy, especially PL's failtier bugs, and your main use of this is going to be Astral Shield, Forgemaster's Flame, and the fiddlyness of Linked Spirit - Which are all powers and feats and not just CD in a vacuum. Meh. It's worth noting though that I hate my DC and find him insanely boring, largely because of things like this and having terrible damage and not being able to keep myself alive with my own healing, so.
6. GF's Mark. Even after a buff it's useless, finicky, and a pain. I hate my GF with a passion though because he's a slow, plodding, incredibly boring turtle, so that doesn't help my opinions any.
Shift:
1. CW's Teleport. Three of these, they recharge quickly, and are great, will get you the immunity you need. Beautiful.
2. TR's Dodge/DC's Dash. Only two, but stamina regens quickly enough to make it useful. Good distance, quick, gets you the needed immunity. I find these two about equivalent, really.
3. HR's Shift. Lots of these, but they're short and don't do much in the way of immunity. The main thing with this though is to keep moving. You aren't going to be using this to get out of the red and most times it's not going to save you from an AoE or ranged attack, but providing a constantly moving target keeps you getting hit less overall, especially in melee. It takes some getting used to. A lot actually. Once you do though it's pretty nice.
4. GF's Block. It's fiddly to use and utterly useless in a lot of situations - Wight Drains, for example. You won't take the damage, sure, but they'll still heal from it so unless your slow turtle *** got out of the way in time, they healed off you and your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage has more HP on them to slog through. When it works, it works great, but it doesn't take much to break your shield meter and you can't actually move out of the way of anything. I'll give it that it's hilarious to jump off of something and block the falling damage.
5. GWF's Sprint. If you move fast enough you can get out of a red circle, but that's all it does. No dodging, no immunity, no blocking of damage, nothing. It closes gaps but provides little to no protection. Granted, with Unstoppable, it doesn't need to, but still. Very meh, and a TR can actually basically duplicate this effect. (Slot Skillful Infiltrator for base run speed increase; slot Sneak Attack for Stealth run speed increase. This gets you about the speed while stealthed of a sprinting GWF, and with stealth refills/stealth extensions, you can do it longer.
Taunt has a range of 100'. When a target is marked with it will it come running to you, which allows a GF to pull in groups of mobs from a great distance. This also means that when a HR or CW is in low health and is being attacked by a monster can a GF pull it off of them from said distance.
It can further be influenced by feats to lower the taunted target's damage, which alone in PvP lets you change the odds of a fight from 100' distance.
And no, it is not an ability which drops a nuke onto the whole map. Sorry mate. The GF is a tank and not the Uber Face Melt class. Duh.
1) Stance Switch (HR): Just doubles the number of your powers, plus it triggers a ton of additional damage bonusses.
2) Stealth (TR): Perma stelth, 1v1 autowin in pvp, solo bosses in pve.
3) Spell Mastery (CW): The fouth encounter opens a lot of variety in the rotation. Plus, it is boosted.3) Divinity (DC) : Like having more slots.
4) Divinity (DC). More slots, somehow, but not permanent like HR or CW
5) Taunt (GF): Helps the party, but does not do much for the GF itself. Should be replaced by something else.
6) Unstoppable (gwf) Gwf in normal mode is nothing in terms of damage or survivability. Only once it trigger, can a gwf start to do what, say, a GF does in normal mode.
Also, it's bugged. Even in pve, bar full or not you can not activate it if anything is happening to you. Getting sent flying into the air by an explosion? Unstoppable won't trigger until you're back with your two feet on the ground. Many many times in pve you will die with your bar full. And in pvp of course it is even worse.
SHIFT abilities:
1) Hunter Ranger's dodge: So many dodges, on a class which already is ranged, has invisibility, regen. Even by just removing the HR's Shift, the class would still be viable.
2) TR's Dodge: should be removed as well. Perma-stelth, ITC, 75% base deflect sev, hey who needs a Dodge then?
3) Guardian Fighter's Block: you're just immune to any attack that you can see coming. Quite a considerable ability.
4) Cleric's Dash: Does the job.
5) Control Wizard's blink : Not what it should be. Lacks range. You blink, so what? You land almost at the same place, plus there is a recover time before you can start running agin. Blinking forward forces you to reorientate at your opponent. Blinking backward usually does not put you out of the danger zone.
6) GWF's sprint: The one and only class that needs to hit to keys for its SHIFT ability. Just hitting Shift will do absolutely nothing. Also, the sprint duration is very low, maybe one second. Useful to get Combat advantage when you're already facing a foe and someone comes to help you. But that's it. You won't catch a telporting foe with your sprint. In pvp neither, you will never catch a TR who is just running normally.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Talk it up all you want, our brothers the GWf get a tab ability that gives them Regeneration, immunity, damage reduction, run speed and we the GF get a ranged taunt! Yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw.... NOT!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
2- TR Stealth is the main vilain on pvp right now.
3 - HR change is very powerfull as it gives when feated damage and a lot of cooldown reduction.
4- CW spell mastery is good but only a few powers truly belong there.
5- DC divinity is more of a hassle than a benefit, most powers suck so much whitout it its not even worth to cast.
6- GF taunt is pathetic, just less than was before.
1- CW blink is the best pve and second pvp dodge.
2- HR second (first in pvp)because of the absurd amount of charges.
3- TR roll goes very far
4- DC dash but it recharges very slowly.
5-GF shield can barely take more than two hits
6-GWF sprint is pretty bad since you dont gain momentum to your jump and dont "dodge".
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
/10char.
Jugger Conq GF
....
TR, both very useful.
HR, "Tab" excellent since L 10. "Shift" DOES NOT and HAS NEVER worked, no matter what keybind I try. SINCE DAY ONE!!
DC, "Tab" extra boost. "Shift", to escape regularly.
CW, "Tab" slotted for "Shield" 90% Known tough instance/boss slot for a 4th encounter.
Some use, but not every encounter
GWF, "Tab" when a boost is needed.
GF, "Tab" until L 30 then gave up on class. Now use GF as dedicated "Professions".
Don't believe "Shift" used for these two.
"Every Attack Can Become a Defense"
"Any Defense Can Be Made An Attack"
Lethalla L 60 "Stealth" TR
You Don't Hear the One With Your Name On It
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]