Un-Official Feedback Thread: Devoted Cleric changes and bugs

jazzfong · April 2014

The DC community WAS ASKING for a separate thread for clerics FOR A LONG TIME as we got great impact too in M3 but no devs nor mods care about us just because we are the least population in Neverwinter. This thread is created for discussing Cleric's stuff by our own without waiting for the mods and devs as M3 will come out in 3 weeks and we need urgent fix on our powers.

"Righteousness: Your healing power heal your allies for 70% more."
While the statement is very positive, but in fact it hidden the fact our base healing amount is reduced at the same time!!! However, we by overall do get a 10% boost in healing our allies (and none on ourselves) which can be considered as a buff to us. (Emblems get a small buff here)

"Cycle of change *New* AND Divintiy at-wills: Gain stacks of life/death based on protective or damaging encounters and give burst heal/damage based on which stack your have with your divine at-will. Offensive encounter > Soothing light burst heal, Protective encounter > Punishing Light burst damage. Having new different stack cancel all other stacks of original stacks. Buff last 30 sec.
Useless!! Totally useless!! The stacks can never go up to 4 even you cast more than 3 encounters in your rotation (like HW). Besides it restricts your skill rotation!! (must slot either 3 offensive or 3 protective). The saddest thing is, hybrid skills like sunburst and divine FF are counted as offensive encounters and they will cancel off your another 2 stacks of death. Punishing light is bugged and this isn't been fixed by the devs since a long long time ago. PL removing 99% of debuffs on your enemy so we are aware not to use it. PL does remove Plaguefire dots and debuff, Bilethorn dots, High prophet debuff (which is the most powerful debuff a cleric have) and some other dots and debuffs. The bugged PL limits the cleric playstyle and cannot effectively cast or use their own class mechanic at-will against their enemies. (I really dislike using PL, as it always become a free cleanse for my enemy...)

Linked Spirit: Sunburst cast tab is fixed so it will not trigger LS anymore, but in return they give our Astral Shield the ability to activate it!!
However it is a lie... We got the feat icon but no stat increase in our character sheet... Why nerf our ability before successfully repairing our Astral Shield?? And you remember to nerf sunburst cast-tab on LS but ignoring the Punishing Light issue?? Our own class mechanic: Divinity at-will ruin the whole class but you just ignore it??
To fellow readers and clerics: I know DC are really low in population and maybe this post will sink the moment i post this. However i hope you all give some loves to DC and help to maintain this post by constructive feedbacks and discussion. Dear mods, sticky this before it is too late, 3 weeks more for M3 and you all never listened to cleric feedbacks at all... hope it isn't too late for us...

By a little nub cleric: Elf

jazzfong · April 2014

Feytouched is bugged on many powers (except sunburst) where the buff isn't applied on cleric. Eg. Daunting Light, Chains, Divine Glow

Cycle of Change should stack more than 3, or else the recovery or RSI on cleric will be a joke. Hybrid skills like sunburst and FF should be revised whether to give both buffs at the same time or give a buff when casted their healing.

Arp is still broken on most cleric powers and the first daily we have dealing less damage on a SINGLE target than a AOE 5 target encounter.

Nearly 30% of our cleric feats is broken or useless, kindly revise them asap and not plainly focused on new content only, thank you.

psychaos999 · April 2014

no other bug to report. Just to say it's about past time devs fix this class.
We have the lowest dps, and healing inferior to life steal procs on other classes.

Sorry for my bad english

macabrivs · April 2014

What most annnoy me in all this is that they keept add arp in our gear in the last 2 modules even when they know arp is not working for some/most of clerics powers (i didnt test, just trusting peoples feedback on this).

Clerics have no love from Devs even when Andy Velasquez Lead Producer of neverwinter claim to be a Cleric enthusiastic. Cmon Andy show us some love :P At least try to fix what is bugged for a lonnnng time, we would be happy just for that... think is not asking much

kazuhiro3 · April 2014

Feat +5% recovery must be replaced by 5% deflect.
Feat 0.5 crit stike for 1k power must be replaced by 0.5-1% crit chance for 1k power. Good i think for balance:)

angrysprite · April 2014

My first (and main) character in Neverwinter since beta is a Cleric. I've since reached level 60 on four other classes and I have to say Cleric was and still is the *most difficult* class to play! Even the solo content in terms of damage dealt versus survivability. It feels like a wet noodle sometimes and has become the least fun of all five of my characters to play. So she's mostly just a mule now.

I don't know all the details of these things mentioned in the OP as I'm not a min-maxer. I just want to have FUN when I play, and playing the Cleric is the least FUN of all my characters, even though they are all playing the SAME content.

So please count my response to the OP as "definitely concur".

Unknown · April 2014

This content has been removed.

gentlemancrush · April 2014

We have no current plans to do anything to cleric beyond the changes in M3 because we have some more urgent things to make changes to, but the Punishing Light bug sounds like a high priority fix. However I cannot get it to happen here locally. It is more than likely that what you are experiencing is some form of feat interaction, but if you could post your build that is causing this to happen that would help with identifying the bug.

vorphied · April 2014

gentlemancrush wrote: »

We have no current plans to do anything to cleric beyond the changes in M3 because we have some more urgent things to make changes to, but the Punishing Light bug sounds like a high priority fix. However I cannot get it to happen here locally. It is more than likely that what you are experiencing is some form of feat interaction, but if you could post your build that is causing this to happen that would help with identifying the bug.

Thank you for your response and for your candor. I do hope that overall DC performance will be on the list to be reviewed after the current priorities are sorted out, though. As things stand, the support role (i.e. buff/debuff/heal) is becoming increasingly irrelevant in both PvE and PvP, and it would be great to see the DC buffed up to be more fun and more powerful rather than to have everyone else weakened to the point where they feel like they need support again.

nwnghost · April 2014

I think jazzfong described it incorrectly.

Basically if a stacking debuff is applied by Punishing Light (i.e. High Prophet set bonus, Plaguefire Enchantment etc), these stacks expire immediately when you cease casting/channeling Punishing Light at the target, as opposed to when their timer runs out normally.

I have not tested this on Preview recently however (in Mod3)

naicalus · April 2014

On live at least, Drow DCs continue to have the same bug they've had since Mod 1 was released as well - They proc Darkfire on themselves and allies and thus *debuff* the group:

I haven't tested it personally because my DC is a half-elf, but here's a drow DC in party with my CW, note the Darkfire icons on me and the DC; everyone else got it on and off too:

http://www.iankunx.net/drowclericdebuff.jpg (Linked because it's 664k and will make slow connection cry)

jazzfong · April 2014

Thanks for replying gentlemancrush, i found out even when i apply stacks of plaguefire / high prophet with other skills other than punishing light, when i cast PL on target and stop after it, the debuffs will disappear. If i remember correctly, it also removes other cleric HP debuff but i need some cleric to help to test this out. If you want my sheets of feats, items and stats you can find them at here. You may also ask scozzer or kaelac for some help, they have some great infos and cleric resources.

*Edit: Along with vorphied, I hope cleric feats and power along with our role in pve and pvp can be revised after all urgent stuffs and high priority changes are implemented. Somehow we are one of the lowest in pyramid among all jobs, lowest dps, longest skill animation, lowest cc abilities, and most of our feats are useless. We are suppose to survive by self-heal but was nerfed by righteousness. How abt healing others?? We got healing depression, shadowtouched (and maybe some future nerfs). We also got a lot of bugged powers and feats and 6 epic sets of arp/lifesteal since beta, and a handicapped skill cooldown regardless how much RSI we have. This is cleric, the class i mained since beta, and the only class i picked since i join neverwinter.

Another source of bugs from kaelac's guide, check 7.3 sessions and you will know how much bug we suffered for months.

gentlemancrush · April 2014

I made a fix to Punishing Light that should hit preview next week. Debuffs applied by it will now properly persist after you stop channeling.

brush4toilet · April 2014

vorphied wrote: »

Thank you for your response and for your candor. I do hope that overall DC performance will be on the list to be reviewed after the current priorities are sorted out, though. As things stand, the support role (i.e. buff/debuff/heal) is becoming increasingly irrelevant in both PvE and PvP, and it would be great to see the DC buffed up to be more fun and more powerful rather than to have everyone else weakened to the point where they feel like they need support again.

said nicely!

i was please to see that heal will be counted twice it was before in heroic encounters, and i love those marks of greetings towards support.

Nevertheless, please, make sure to correct arp bug, to make a buff/debuff bonus on mode 3 dc's set (high prophet seems still the best high end set however it's a T1), to change the name of the "high prophet" helmet which name is "great prophet" (if i remember).

Could you also think about the fact that cleric have 40% less healing on themselves : it will balance pvp without changing pve right now...

sathado · April 2014

gentlemancrush wrote: »

I made a fix to Punishing Light that should hit preview next week. Debuffs applied by it will now properly persist after you stop channeling.

Thank you very much for this fix. When do you plan to fix armor penetration?

theosymphany · April 2014

Thanks Jazzfong for initiating the discussion with gentlemancrush, to whom we also thank for your responses.

Here's a list of bugs and unusual behaviour regarding DC skills/feats etc that I've compiled in my DC guide for your awareness. Your team may already be aware of some of these, but we would prefer to have communication about whether it's intended behaviour or if they are being addressed, the progress as such.

Skills and general

Armor penetration not counted in calculating damage of many DC powers (PoD, Chains of Blazing Light), especially for DoTs (BoTS, BtS, FF, Plague Fire) where every tick but the first is weakened.. A consequence of this is lifesteal return is markedly reduced for many of our abilities. Together, this severely restricted the DPS oriented DCs as a viable and competitive build/paragon in PvE and PvP as well as made our GG, module 1 and 2 sets significantly less desirable stat wise. It's not that we don't want ArP on our sets, we just want it to firstly be working with our skills first.
Daunting Light does not currently benefit at all from Terrifying Insight (TI). Chains of blazing Light only ever benefits from 1 stack (4% debuff) of Terrifying Insight. Also neither of these skills correctly grant a stack of TI on targets when used. It’s a visual effect only and applies no debuff despite visual indicators stacking up to 6.
High Prophet stack icons are missing on targets in module 3.
Stacks of High Prophet and TI fall off as soon as Punishing Light, Hammer of Fate and Flame Strike (and possibly also Guardian of Faith) ends. May be working as intended but even previously placed stacks get lost also. Others have reported other previously applied debuffs on target also gets removed by the skills listed.
Prophecy of Doom does not benefit from any AP gain bonuses, either from CHA, recovery, Holy Fervor, artifacts, boons, pets etc, none what so ever. If the target is killed during PoD's animation the skill goes on cooldown with no appreciable benefit. (My opinion is the animation and cast time for this skill is at least twice as long as it needs to be. I find it ironic that divine spells take much longer to cast (and hence much easier to interrupt) than magic ones)
Fabled Illiyabruen (Module 1) and Dread Legion (Module 2) set bonuses does not proc at all when soloing unless you happen to have a combat companion or fighting with someone else (they don’t have to be in your party).
Sunburst gives no divinity when healing self (it’s not tagged as a healing power) and gains no benefit from divine fortune when healing. Likewise, gains no benefit from healing action feat when healing, and gains 'life' stacks in cycle of change (well, probably working as intended on the last one..)
Channel divinity can get ‘stuck’ if you hold mouse down while tabbing and expends all your divinity unless you interrupt using an encounter.
Astral Seal duration is not refreshed when recast on target. Astral seal’s healing has unusual built in diminishing returns on successful attacks (100% effectiveness, then 50%, 33%, 10%). You rarely receive full healing based on the logs.
Chains of Blazing Light’s damage is unexpectedly reduced when there are more targets. In divine mode enemies can sometimes walk directly over it without triggering.
Sacred Flame can proc Drow racial Dark Fire debuff on allies.
Exaltation does not grant immunity to TR’s Shocking Execution. (Presumably also GF's Supremency of Steel, which also ignore damage reduction currently, though not tested)
Debuff effectiveness of High Prophet’s set, Plaguefire Enchantment and Terror Enchantment (also CW Elemental Empowerment) are reduced by [enemy resistance*(enemy resistance - attacker mitigation ignored)], as noted in [alink='6.3']Section 6.3[/alink] above
Feytouched weapon enchant decreases target damage but does not boost the DC’s damage when used.
We currently are subject to Righteousness from using healing items and artifacts and Soulforged (some fixed in Module 3)

A lot of ability FX and sound will still play even if it is interrupted, most noticeable in PvP

Feats:

Templar’s Domain procs only for 5 seconds every 300 seconds. The internal cooldown is far too long and for a fifth tier feat should be removed altogether and this should just be a flat passive increase (ArPen increased by 6/12/18/24/30%). Not absurd considering the GWF feats that grant it.
Daunting Light and Flame strike do not proc Repurpose Soul when it crits (may be other skills also, some reports mention Punishing/Soothing Light).
Repurpose soul healing is based only on raw damage and not actual damage, thus not benefitting from extra damage from debuffs/armor penetration (although side effect is it could benefit from lowered damage from enemy damage resistance)
Cleanse very rarely proc when soloing (soothing light is one of the rare skills that do). Furthermore I don’t think cleanse actually remove a lot of negative effects such as chill or stuns.
Linked Spirit does not proc with Divine Astral shield at all. The icon is displayed but there are no actual stat increases to anyone in party, even if healing occurred, on the first tick or otherwise. It also doesn’t work with Exaltation in either normal or divine mode.
Linked Spirit: tooltip should be reworded to state it increasing target stat ratings by X% for X seconds. (this is how it's currently implemented. It’s not currently based on the DC’s ratings, and honestly shouldn’t be anyway because every class has different needs).
Linked Spirit does not increase they tenacity of you or your allies
Power of the Sun does not decrease target crit chance, at least in PvP (from character sheet). Not sure about damage yet. Likewise not sure if Power of Oppression actually debuffs
Righteous Flame- I don’t notice any actual stuns, if at all even if targets were caught in middle.
Sovereign Justice- the proc rate seems to be a lot less than suggested on tooltip, especially when soloing

Boons:

Elven ferocity and Shadowtouched does not take armor penetration into account for damage calculations
Elven tranquility and Enraged regrowth self heals are reduced 40% by righteousness (Fixed in module 3).

nurmood · April 2014

gentlemancrush wrote: »

I made a fix to Punishing Light that should hit preview next week. Debuffs applied by it will now properly persist after you stop channeling.

sweet!
I thought it was intended bcos debuffing the boss is now dead easy just put on punishing light for a sec and continue rotations!

jazzfong · April 2014

I just found some interesting stuff in preview, if we apply HP debuff by attacks other than PL, when we cast PL once, we get another 2 stacks of HP debuff per PL tick (makes a total of 3 stacks). If we stop channel PL it will turn back into one stack of HP debuff instead of losing all 3 stacks. You may use any power to apply first HP debuff and then cast one tick of PL, then you will realize the debuff rolls back to 1 after stop casting PL (for one tick). Btw, since we are going to get the fix at next week, this issue can just be a tips for devs to find out reasons of PL bugs. Hopefully in the end no bugs abt PL anymore so bilethorn clerics can be viable.

*Edit: as a reminder, casting more than 2 stacks of PL will remove all stacks of HP debuff, just exactly like what we suffer now.

theosymphany · April 2014

Yep, PL and cleric dailys can put 3 stacks of HP and terrifying insight instantly on target(s), but these usually go away as soon as the ability ends (analagous to CW's Oppressive Force, which puts 3 stack HV which drop off). The original stack in the majority of cases will not remain but there are circumstances where it would, but it has a short lifetime anyway.

This was reported back in September...
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?494251-Bug-Stacks-procced-by-DC-Hammer-of-Fate-Punishing-Light-drop-off-prematurely

vorphied · April 2014

theosymphany wrote: »

[*]Chains of Blazing Light’s damage is unexpectedly reduced when there are more targets.

This one isn't a bug; it's just a highly questionable design choice. According to the tooltip, damage is reduced (by an unspecified amount) when multiple targets are affected...for no apparent reason. Even funnier since the target cap is 5, like the majority of AoEs.

It's one of the many DC head-scratchers. I get the feeling that a lot of what negatively impacts DC quality of life exists only because no one has taken the time to evaluate the class in detail since early beta. The DC class generally works despite all of that, so I get that an overhaul hasn't been on the to-do list, but it a little one would be nice.

Maybe once GWFs are remotely balanced, GFs and TRs have a job in PvE again, HRs get whatever tweaks they end up getting, and CWs are adjusted to be less amazing in PvE/more desirable in PvP, DCs will finally get a look and have some of their obsolete mechanics cleaned up. I'm sure that whichever devs worked on DC a year ago had great intentions, but just because things like diminishing damage on Chains and huge ICD on an Armor Pen feat sounded good to them over a year ago doesn't mean that they are good ideas now (or ever were, in those two cases).

...and don't even get me started on this Righteousness <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Sorry guys, but nerfing base heal numbers by 40% and increasing the scaling for allied targets is absolutely no bueno. The fact that it amounts to a slight overall healing buff and effectively fixes DC interactions with some self-healing boons etc. isn't enough to distract from the fact that it's mostly a semantics change. When a developer has time to explain in detail why Righteousness (however you want to sell it) is still necessary for game balance, I will keep an open mind. In the meantime, though, it still looks very much like something that serves no function except to deter low-geared healing DCs and to frustrate players who enjoy using their class-given healing powers in PvP :P Oops, too late. I got started....

sathado · April 2014

gentlemancrush wrote: »

I made a fix to Punishing Light that should hit preview next week. Debuffs applied by it will now properly persist after you stop channeling.

Please fix bug with armor penetration stat. 3 module coming soon and as i know,there are many pvp task with 450 kills, 75 double kills and 40 triple kills and other kills enemies. DC can't deal normal damage and they can't do this tasks.:(

mehguy138 · April 2014

It was a long time since I first thought about writing this post but I think this is the right time to do that.

DC Heroic feats analysis

Healing Action - Gain 1/2/3/4/5% more AP whenever you use a Healing ability.

To begin with, how do you consider an ability to be "healing"? All abilities, that do damage are damaging abilities, they generate Divinity without Divine Fortune slotted (Astral Shield is not considered as a healing nor damaging ability).
So we have - Healing Word, Bastion of Health and Exaltation.

This feat increases AP gain on THREE abilities by FIVE PERCENT.

GWF gets 25% more AP while he's Unstoppable. GF gets 10% more AP from blocking. CW gets 10% more AP when attacking a CC'd target. TR gets 10% more AP when dealing Combat Advantage damage. HR gets 10% AP boost.

DC has the lowest AP boost which works only on 3 abilities.

Greater Fortune - Your Wisdom now grants 3% more healing.

GWF gains 6% more damage from Strength and 15% increased effectiveness of Constitution. GF gets 15% increased effectiveness of Strength. CW gets 5% more damage from Intelligence. TR gets 6% more damage from Strength. HR gets 6% more damage from Dexterity.

DC has the lowest Ability Score boost.

Toughness - Increases HP by 3/6/9%.

Common feat.

Holy Resolve - Gain 5/10/15% of Max Hp in Temp HP when you drop below 30% HP. 5 minutes CD.

Fighters feat - Grit - Gives 3% Temp HP when healed by a player. 40 sec CD. Increasing those numbers x5, will get 15% temp HP with 200 sec CD. Still 100 seconds less then DC feat.

Domain Synergy - Increases Recovery by 1/2/3/4/5%.

If you have 3000 Recovery, which is enough due to Diminishing Returns, it gives you 150 more Recovery. Pathetic.

Weapon Mastery - Gain 1/2/3% more crit strike.

Common feat.

Initiate of the Faith - You crit stat is increased by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1% of your power stat.

Do I really need to comment on this one? If you have 10k power, it would give you 100 crit strike. BTW, GWF gets 20% of defense in power.

Repurpose Soul - When one of your spells has critical effect the target of that spell disperses a small area effect heal, healing you and your allies for 5/10/15% of the spells effect.

It would be good, if the were no

Daunting Light and Flame strike do not proc Repurpose Soul when it crits (may be other skills also, some reports mention Punishing/Soothing Light).
Repurpose soul healing is based only on raw damage and not actual damage, thus not benefitting from extra damage from debuffs/armor penetration (although side effect is it could benefit from lowered damage from enemy damage resistance)

Battlewise - You create 2/4/6% less threat.

Common feat.

Cleanse - When you heal an ally you have a 10/20/30% chance to remove a negative effect from them. 8 seconds CD.

This is good, but CD ruined it. Also, proc rate is to low and doesn't need to exist at all, as you have an ICD on the effect.

Templar's Domain - When dealing damage, you have 5/10/15/20/25% chance to increase you ArP for 30% for 5 seconds. 5 minutes CD.

Yeap, 5 minutes CD for 5sec effect. Also,

Armor penetration not counted in calculating damage of many DC powers (PoD, Chains of Blazing Light), especially for DoTs (BoTS, BtS, FF, Plague Fire) where every tick but the first is weakened..

Bountiful Fortune - Gain 3/6/9/12/15% more Divinity.

TR gets 20% more Stealth. Also, we can't get this feat to maximum, because we must take Cleanse.

I hope developers will see this.

nurmood · April 2014

mehguy138 wrote: »

I hope developers will see this.

I feel like you but "red" is the color for bugs in these Forums. If you want develpoers to put interest in it stick to the color scheme given.

mehguy138 · April 2014

nurmood wrote: »

I feel like you but "red" is the color for bugs in these Forums. If you want develpoers to put interest in it stick to the color scheme given.

This is unofficial thread, I can use whatever color I want.

jazzfong · April 2014

Thanks mehguy for posting a general comment about heroic feats. If they looked into paragon feats, then they will know they are worse than our heroic one, especially virtuous path. However, since mr.gentlemancrush said they have no intention to fix cleric stuff in M3 or after M3 except PL bug which is counted as a "high priority" fix, we have to wait for 3 to 6 months for the devs to clear their high priority stuffs and class balance before they can help us to fix the cleric feats and arp stat. Therefore, we should be patience and wait, or farm some glory, AD, black ice etc for our alts, that should fill the meantime of waiting.

(I was surprised that PL bug deserved a high priority fix from the devs!! If it was high priority problem, why we are burdened for nearly a year and they still not yet fix for us? It is not no one report it, we did report and state this bug in our guides, but how come the devs can still dunno this bug for so long??)

ulviel · April 2014

gentlemancrush wrote: »

We have no current plans to do anything to cleric (...) we have some more urgent things (...)

In other words, "we do not care, deal with that", therefore, this thread is pointless no matter how true the things said here are.

vorphied · April 2014

ulviel wrote: »

In other words, "we do not care, deal with that", therefore, this thread is pointless no matter how true the things said here are.

I wouldn't say that it's pointless, but I get the feeling.

I rather imagine that, from their perspective, other class issues are more pressing because of the way they impact the overall game. DCs, despite their obvious issues, still serve their function (such as it is). They need fixing, but they aren't broken in the same way that the dynamic among the rest of the classes is broken.

...so I'm patient for now. The only thing that really steamed me was the attempt to obfuscate the problem of Righteousness with what's mostly a semantics change rather than openly addressing the issue and how it affects beginner PvE and all levels of PvP. The devs haven't said much of anything about their vision for the DC class since their blog about new Paragon Paths this past fall, so it's difficult to guess what they're thinking or why they do anything they do with DCs.

brush4toilet · April 2014

i know this is kinda ****ty but "why they don't care about us" is obvious :

in one year, we got 3 modules, as said previously in the forum, DC bugs does not affect so much the game (and moreover DC population is only 10%) ; so devs always work on new modules, and simply don't care about only 10% who don't impact so much the game right now,and we are always considered as low priority in fact. Money is money guys!

just see when DC class changed :
-nerf of AShield : AShield was always active, this is kinda a major issue
-nerf of AP gain : all points gained with a sunburst, major issue too coz HallowedG was always active
-nerf of hammer of fate : oh gosh, we cannot let the DCs become other thing than support, that's a major issue! (satiric here...)

now, all of our bugs are not a big thing for devs who forget so much about us : just have to see the mod 2 and mod 3 sets with arp, when the bug with arp was already showed 7 months ago...

back to the thread : i would exprim my fear about pvp campaign and free pvp zone : how do they expect us to have 75 triple kills for exemple? (correct me if i'm wrong)

ulviel · April 2014

I still think they simply don't care, probably because clerics are only 11% of population (this class is so unpopular, gee, I wonder why...) and I gave up hope already. DCs issues do not have impact because people are used to them, how to put it, not doing more than they currently do.

Brush4toilet: this is unfortunately too true.

jazzfong · April 2014

Although there are less love to dc in comparison to other class, at least now there are some devs willing to help us when reading this thread. To sum up, devs should just ignore most of our post but only read those constructive ones and help us to clarify and fix them. I kinda scared they will close this thread because it turns into qq thread abt unfairness abt clerics.

ladysylvia · April 2014

vorphied wrote: »

.
.
.
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...and don't even get me started on this Righteousness <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Sorry guys, but nerfing base heal numbers by 40% and increasing the scaling for allied targets is absolutely no bueno. The fact that it amounts to a slight overall healing buff and effectively fixes DC interactions with some self-healing boons etc. isn't enough to distract from the fact that it's mostly a semantics change. When a developer has time to explain in detail why Righteousness (however you want to sell it) is still necessary for game balance, I will keep an open mind. In the meantime, though, it still looks very much like something that serves no function except to deter low-geared healing DCs and to frustrate players who enjoy using their class-given healing powers in PvP :P Oops, too late. I got started....

If you don't check it's balance value i will explain it with math for you:

Currently you have 20k HP.
You heal for 10k
Because of Righteousness you heal yourself for max 6k. That's only 60% or in other words: A decreasing power value of ~67%!
With enough time, you can achieve the hp lose back until you can heal yourself next time. So a endless frame would be created, that enable you to stand to long/endless against enemies. To avoid this case, Righteousness was created by the devs.
In PVP, DC can be killed quite good, but builds exist, that extend their lifespan quite good or to nearly perfect.
If you would remove Righteousness, normal builds would be in most cases worse to kill. Because you give them ~67% more heal instant.
And know what? The good lifespan builds will survive much, much longer even be unkillable.
In PVE DC doing quite good in surviving content. If not, the team maybe suck. A unkillable DC would not matter for the balance, you think so? FALSE! He would quite good kiting stuff or aggrofarming in a unkillable build. No need for a tank. So the DC need a penalty, that harm them to be too good in healing without hurting teammates.

So is Righteousness a balance parameter for the healing value.

mehguy138 wrote: »

It was a long time since I first thought about writing this post but I think this is the right time to do that.

DC Heroic feats analysis

Healing Action - Gain 1/2/3/4/5% more AP whenever you use a Healing ability.

To begin with, how do you consider an ability to be "healing"? All abilities, that do damage are damaging abilities, they generate Divinity without Divine Fortune slotted (Astral Shield is not considered as a healing nor damaging ability).
So we have - Healing Word, Bastion of Health and Exaltation.

This feat increases AP gain on THREE abilities by FIVE PERCENT.

GWF gets 25% more AP while he's Unstoppable. GF gets 10% more AP from blocking. CW gets 10% more AP when attacking a CC'd target. TR gets 10% more AP when dealing Combat Advantage damage. HR gets 10% AP boost.

DC has the lowest AP boost which works only on 3 abilities.

GWF get afaik a drastic AP-reduce on AT-will powers while unstoppable.

What is with the healing At-will Divinity? But you have to think about why DC is reduced to Healing powers.

They aren't attackers.

Greater Fortune - Your Wisdom now grants 3% more healing.

GWF gains 6% more damage from Strength and 15% increased effectiveness of Constitution. GF gets 15% increased effectiveness of Strength. CW gets 5% more damage from Intelligence. TR gets 6% more damage from Strength. HR gets 6% more damage from Dexterity.

DC has the lowest Ability Score boost.

Toughness - Increases HP by 3/6/9%.

Common feat.

Don't know what you want about that, but all classes share this so???? What's your problem with this?

Holy Resolve - Gain 5/10/15% of Max Hp in Temp HP when you drop below 30% HP. 5 minutes CD.

Fighters feat - Grit - Gives 3% Temp HP when healed by a player. 40 sec CD. Increasing those numbers x5, will get 15% temp HP with 200 sec CD. Still 100 seconds less then DC feat.

The problem with the compared feat is: YOU NEED HEAL. If you don't have this, it's useless! Second the real CD is in most cases higher - you don't receive the heal instant the CD run out.

Domain Synergy - Increases Recovery by 1/2/3/4/5%.

If you have 3000 Recovery, which is enough due to Diminishing Returns, it gives you 150 more Recovery. Pathetic.

Other suggestion for this?

Weapon Mastery - Gain 1/2/3% more crit strike.

Common feat.

What's the problem???

Initiate of the Faith - You crit stat is increased by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1% of your power stat.

Do I really need to comment on this one? If you have 10k power, it would give you 100 crit strike. BTW, GWF gets 20% of defense in power.

Really UP.

Repurpose Soul - When one of your spells has critical effect the target of that spell disperses a small area effect heal, healing you and your allies for 5/10/15% of the spells effect.

It would be good, if the were no

I don't understand what you want to say with this.

Battlewise - You create 2/4/6% less threat.

Common feat.

And the problem is?

Cleanse - When you heal an ally you have a 10/20/30% chance to remove a negative effect from them. 8 seconds CD.

This is good, but CD ruined it. Also, proc rate is to low and doesn't need to exist at all, as you have an ICD on the effect.

I think it's good as it is.

Templar's Domain - When dealing damage, you have 5/10/15/20/25% chance to increase you ArP for 30% for 5 seconds. 5 minutes CD.

Yeap, 5 minutes CD for 5sec effect. Also,

The effect and the CD are silly. Need to changed.

Bountiful Fortune - Gain 3/6/9/12/15% more Divinity.

TR gets 20% more Stealth. Also, we can't get this feat to maximum, because we must take Cleanse.

I hope developers will see this.

Try human, then you can have 2 Tier 4 feats. And don't Q.Q that you have to choose. Oh other classes have this to do too!

Un-Official Feedback Thread: Devoted Cleric changes and bugs

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