Suggestion - Shadow Strike

crazymikee · April 2014

There is too many topics about reducing damage ect on TRs, why not make it harder for them to stay invisible indefinitely?
With shadow strike right now no matter what it will always fill a TR's stealth bar, even if the opponent dodges, why not just make it so it has to actually deal damage to fill the stealth bar, I have played perma stealth and trust me if your opponent knows what their doing then it's going to be a rough time for you. But the other 90% of the NW community doesn't know how to combat perma stealth and it's pretty unfair when I play on my other classes vs it. If Shadow Strike has to do damage to give you your stealth back, that would definatly quiet up some of the cry babies on the forums, for awhile anyway, until they get wrecked in pvp by a tr and demand another nerf to something they obviously didn't know how to counter.

It also would make it more logical an ability in that it's not a 100% guaranteed stealth regen, but you will have to make sure they don't dodge it so you will actually get the bonus back, instead of having it negated like Impossible to Catch negates most damage and gives cc immunity. It also makes sense that if someone dodges a blade to the head, then they shouldn't get penalized for it by having their opponent re-cloak to stay invisible even after they correctly dodge the attack

tl;dr
Shadow Strike has to do damage to refill the stealth bar

f2pma · April 2014

11-15-2013, 03:52 AM
Thread: Shadow Strike?
by f2pma

Replies
27
Views
1,968

no tr in a right mind would ever use attack which deals no dmg and can be dodged and on top of that is crucial to work coz all build is relying on it...one miss insta dead.
and that is why its never going to be changed

f2pma · April 2014

magenubbie wrote: »

A little bit of reading goes a long way. Too bad you're taking a shortcut and jump right to the conclusion. This is a counter suggestion to the plan to nerf stealth. At least, that's how I read it. Next time, stay on the path of the blade. Not the edge.

counter to nerfing stealth is removing the stealth all the way nice man.

js3b · April 2014

f2pma wrote: »

11-15-2013, 03:52 AM
Thread: Shadow Strike?
by f2pma

Replies
27
Views
1,968

no tr in a right mind would ever use attack which deals no dmg and can be dodged and on top of that is crucial to work coz all build is relying on it...one miss insta dead.
and that is why its never going to be changed

You obviously did not play againts a good perma

f2pma · April 2014

js3b wrote: »

You obviously did not play againts a good perma

no idea what are u trying to say
never saw perma not using ss lol.
and if tr without ss beat me i would delete instant

skalt112 · April 2014

I do not think rogues should be able to stay stealthed indefinatly. My opinion only. but they have nerfed rogues to accomodate this, so if perma stealth is removed, then those nerfs need to be revisited.

f2pma · April 2014

skalt112 wrote: »

I do not think rogues should be able to stay stealthed indefinatly. My opinion only. but they have nerfed rogues to accomodate this, so if perma stealth is removed, then those nerfs need to be revisited.

yeah sure but think abouth this.top geared tr should one shot low geared pugs if he wants to be viable against 35khp plus pvp players.
then the realy crying would start lol.

godlysoul2 · April 2014

I disagree with this idea. It would leave rogues by far too vulnerable. Also, it would be easy for anyone to count and time their dodges for when stealth would be depleted or just wait for them to use the animation while under ITC. They already said they intend to fix the situation with little or no changes to stealth duration because they probably recognize this. SS also has a slow cast animation and would be easy to dodge.

Regardless, this is not a good idea. Another thing to mention is the focus is not just on nerfing rogue damage as you stated. One of the ideas they mentioned testing was to make rogues visible to targets they attack while attacking from stealth. This is a much more reasonable solution to balancing it out instead of cutting out rogues only defense completely at times. The other idea being to reduce damage the longer one attacks from stealth. Either way, both of their ideas for solutions are better alternatives than cutting stealth out completely at times. There are already ways to see sheathed rogues, use weapon enchants, and attack them with AOEs to knock them out of stealth. It only needs slight adjustments to make it stealth a little less viable, not removing it completely at times when there are already methods to handle it that are close to being a balanced counters to stealth, but fall just a bit short.

crazymikee · April 2014

morenthar wrote: »

Really? SS ain't the problem. It's B&S.

By the way, the only Perma/Bilethorn TR's that are a pain are the very high end ones. I go up against them all the time and even are in parties with them. So I've inspected them and sure enough, all rank 10's, Perfect Armor and Weapon Enchantments, Legendary Artifacts.

So you want it easy to beat them? So you want to further screw other TR's that aren't an INT build and not a perma using B&S? Jerk.

Go up against the top pre-mades. You apparently haven't been up against them. If you have gone up against them, you'd realize that stealth isn't overpowered at all. It's as simple as the combo of B&S plus Bilethorn. So leave the other TR's out of the conversation and get better informed.

I actually have, and although your just trying to insult me in a nice way, you don't actually have a point. With a perma rotation versus any class except for HR, any half-wit TR can be invisible for about 70-80% of the time they are fighting you, all the while using impossible to catch to reduce the damage the take to less then half unstealthed and 0 damage stealthed, so I'm guessing your just angry that you can't have unfair fights versus single opponents anymore. If you actually read what I said it would make more sense that if the attack misses, then you shouldn't get the refill for stealth, it's only logical that because you actually hit the target you get the stealth refill and not a guaranteed refill every 15 seconds or so, which in my opinion isn't balanced 1v1 in PvP seeing as it's not that hard to hit with the attack when someone isn't dodging, but when they do dodge they can actually fight back instead of dodging just to find out that their TR friend went invisible again even though they dodged the attack.

degraafination · April 2014

If SS is nerfed like that, TRs will just run B&S. No biggie.

proneification · April 2014

How about leaving Shadow Strike alone? As others explained, TR is a vulnerable class if people know what to do (as in run in an experienced premade). TRs can destroy n00bs, and are balanced within same gear/same experience environment.

Seen a lot of these topics where suboptimal toons want to beat full rank 10s/perfects TRs.

Prove you have the same gear, the same experience, a toon that is able to 1vs1 (no your tiefling CW won't cut it and is not meant to duel semipermas), and then we can talk about nerfs.

f2pma · April 2014

degraafination wrote: »

If SS is nerfed like that, TRs will just run B&S. No biggie.

i know you are very good pvp player and one of the best cw in the game but to say something that silly amazes me.

f2pma · April 2014

crazymikee wrote: »

I actually have, and although your just trying to insult me in a nice way, you don't actually have a point. With a perma rotation versus any class except for HR, any half-wit TR can be invisible for about 70-80% of the time they are fighting you, all the while using impossible to catch to reduce the damage the take to less then half unstealthed and 0 damage stealthed, so I'm guessing your just angry that you can't have unfair fights versus single opponents anymore. If you actually read what I said it would make more sense that if the attack misses, then you shouldn't get the refill for stealth, it's only logical that because you actually hit the target you get the stealth refill and not a guaranteed refill every 15 seconds or so, which in my opinion isn't balanced 1v1 in PvP seeing as it's not that hard to hit with the attack when someone isn't dodging, but when they do dodge they can actually fight back instead of dodging just to find out that their TR friend went invisible again even though they dodged the attack.

funny how you just keep repeating same scenarios in your head.if ss was dodgable no one using it!!!!!!!!
you are just saying remove the most important trs encounter from pvp.very smart lol.
it would be like saying gwf can use unstoppable only once in a single fight.

williep30 · April 2014

f2pma wrote: »

funny how you just keep repeating same scenarios in your head.if ss was dodgable no one using it!!!!!!!!
you are just saying remove the most important trs encounter from pvp.very smart lol.
it would be like saying gwf can use unstoppable only once in a single fight.

I'd say, as annoying as it is, leave it be... For now. You can't change it w/o an immediate witch hunt on other encounters by other classes, imo.

And I'd compare shadow strike more to gwf's takedown, or Iv gwf's frontline surge. You take one or both of them away, you'd be hearing a similar thread(negativity wise) about them.

By the way, takedown has a similar reward the player for missing effect(allowing them to spam TD with basically no cool down penalty for missing. If SS stays, don't want to hear whining about TD anymore either(like a previous poster, forgot about that ability of SS).

williep30 · April 2014

degraafination wrote: »

If SS is nerfed like that, TRs will just run B&S. No biggie.

Thing is, I've seen many TRs run BOTH

crazymikee · April 2014

A lot of you who don't support my idea probably have a TR as your main character, which is why you don't want it to be harder to stay perma. It only makes sense that if someone dodges the attack then the attack doesn't give a stealth bonus, just like EVERY OTHER ATTACK IN THE GAME, TR's aren't special and neither are you

dragmosh · April 2014

degraafination wrote: »

If SS is nerfed like that, TRs will just run B&S. No biggie.

SS is much more important to all TRs than B&S. B&S has roughly twice the cooldown of SS, and it only refills stealth when used in stealth. Out of stealth you dodge backwards. A TR using B&S and not SS can stay in stealth a maximum of 20 seconds, after which they can never go back into stealth while being attacked. A TR using SS and not B&S can stay in stealth a maximum of 20 seconds and then restealth again after about 5 seconds out of stealth, if timed right. A TR running SS and B&S, with enough recovery that B&S has less than a 20 second cooldown can stay in stealth indefinitely, and restealth whenever they get popped out.

The reason why people usually take aim at nerfing B&S rather than SS, is because B&S is used primarily by perma stealth rogues, while every rogue uses SS.

I disagree with this suggestion, as it hits all TRs too hard. Unless we get some other sort of defense, I don't think TRs would be viable in PVP with a non guaranteed stealth refill.

Edit: I'd be okay with it if we got something similar to Takedown where SS would have a 2 second cooldown if we miss.

f2pma · April 2014

crazymikee wrote: »

A lot of you who don't support my idea probably have a TR as your main character, which is why you don't want it to be harder to stay perma. It only makes sense that if someone dodges the attack then the attack doesn't give a stealth bonus, just like EVERY OTHER ATTACK IN THE GAME, TR's aren't special and neither are you

if there is any cw that couldnt dodge ss at least 80% of the time he better delete.
and if the same cw couldnt kill tr before he gets stealth again he better delete to
gf would block 100% of the ss
hr 80%dodge
trs 80% dodge

and you say harder why not say impossibile to stay perma

frishter · April 2014

f2pma wrote: »

if there is any cw that couldnt dodge ss at least 80% of the time he better delete.
and if the same cw couldnt kill tr before he gets stealth again he better delete to
gf would block 100% of the ss
hr 80%dodge
trs 80% dodge

and you say harder why not say impossibile to stay perma

I find those types of comments highly arrogant. If people had to take your advice then cryptic would have a big problem getting money from their virtually non existent player base.

f2pma · April 2014

williep30 wrote: »

I'd say, as annoying as it is, leave it be... For now. You can't change it w/o an immediate witch hunt on other encounters by other classes, imo.

And I'd compare shadow strike more to gwf's takedown, or Iv gwf's frontline surge. You take one or both of them away, you'd be hearing a similar thread(negativity wise) about them.

By the way, takedown has a similar reward the player for missing effect(allowing them to spam TD with basically no cool down penalty for missing. If SS stays, don't want to hear whining about TD anymore either(like a previous poster, forgot about that ability of SS).

trs cant kill no full pvp spec without ss anymore.maybe before with impact lashing but not anymore.

f2pma · April 2014

frishter wrote: »

I find those types of comments highly arrogant. If people had to take your advice then cryptic would have a big problem getting money from their virtually non existent player base.

i speak for same gear higher end pvp players and even begginers would dodge 50%by pure luck.you cant pvp with dodgeble ss or without one. any decent player can say the same

frishter · April 2014

f2pma wrote: »

i speak for same gear higher end pvp players and even begginers would dodge 50%by pure luck.you cant pvp with dodgeble ss or without one. any decent player can say the same

You overestimate the skill of a sizeable chunk of players. Nevertheless who is anyone to tell someone to delete/uninstall just because they're not as good as others. I find that term thrown about so much when really it's just about matchmaking not working it's finest. Though I've not seen it used much over here.

f2pma · April 2014

i cant remember when cw daily hit me last time.Encounters that make a sound before the hit are the easyest do dodge.ss is the same and takes no skill at all after some time u hear the sound u dodge without thinking any decent player can do it.
im not overestimating anything if that nerf was implemented no one would ever use it.why? because its to easy to dodge and wouldn even work in pugs

pointsman · April 2014

f2pma wrote: »

i cant remember when cw daily hit me last time.Encounters that make a sound before the hit are the easyest do dodge.ss is the same and takes no skill at all after some time u hear the sound u dodge without thinking any decent player can do it.
im not overestimating anything if that nerf was implemented no one would ever use it.why? because its to easy to dodge and wouldn even work in pugs

The Shadow Strike sound and the attack occur simultaneously for me.

f2pma · April 2014

pointsman wrote: »

The Shadow Strike sound and the attack occur simultaneously for me.

lol its more then a sec closer to 2

pointsman · April 2014

I think you are overestimating any sort of time lag because they occur simultaneously for me. The sound and the purple circle occur at the same time.

f2pma · April 2014

it has a long wind up you can hear it very clear and have the time to dodge

frishter · April 2014

f2pma wrote: »

i cant remember when cw daily hit me last time.Encounters that make a sound before the hit are the easyest do dodge.ss is the same and takes no skill at all after some time u hear the sound u dodge without thinking any decent player can do it.
im not overestimating anything if that nerf was implemented no one would ever use it.why? because its to easy to dodge and wouldn even work in pugs

I'm not debating whether ss would be worth having, I'm saying that for the ones who can't dodge it, it's not fair to say that they should delete/uninstall their game. Some players aren't that great, doesn't mean they should be denied the chance to play for fun or be unable to play against people of the same skill level.

Suggestion - Shadow Strike

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