the feats are other useless things GF 3% hpp while healded every 40 sec, 5% while you get cc, 10% dmg reduction ... etc ... you really see the feat of one GWF 20% def to dmg, 15% effectiveness of cons, 15% dmg on target mark, 20% def effectiveness of def and restoration strike heal 50% of dmg done + other 50% for 3 sec ... that really suck
I have posted on numerous threads with what changes I think the GF should see... Each and every time my comments were deleted from this forum.
My GF is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, I am a PvP'r and I love PvE as well. I also play a DC, a HR, and a CW. All of them are in rank 9's and 10's with respectable armor sets and high gear scores.
I love playing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as my main but I am finding myself playing my other toons more and more. I believe I will eventually completely phase him out. I love him, but he needs to be buffed in an amazing way. Any other class with similar gear and enchants will outdps, outtank, out CC me. Toons with gear scores 3 to 5k lower than mine still outdps, outcc, outtank me and that is a real problem.
HAMSTER, level 60 GF, "Bloodthirsty" since Mod 2 Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
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qball1993Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited April 2014
Has the idea of increasing the efficiency of AC been thrown out? More efficient AC would allow a GF to swap out defense items for offense stats boosting DPS and threat. I played a GF originally and was happy with the class until tier 2 Dungeons (fh in particular) where I just became a kiter. Once I got to MC, CN, and VT it became very difficult to find a group. I am now playing a GWF and I get more groups with 13.7k gear score than I do with 17k on my GF. On top of that, the GWF is a beast with great damage and good survivability. I am not sure if my proposal is the answer but something definitely needs to be done with GF to at least make them worth taking into the higher tier dungeons.
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havvkyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited April 2014
Defense of the GF is already high into diminishing returns already, no point improving it further unless the formula for damage resistance gets changed. Average GF should have about 4k Def which is about 47% damage resistance, and you can bump it to 5k defense for like 48.7% damage resistance so theres not much point in going further
The issue is, they made a tank for an action MMO. Further, they wanted to make it so it wasn't required to have a tank for the content.
So they have two choices to fix it.
A) Make the content require a tank. That means hitting harder, no red circles to be able to dodge, etc. Make us not a tank.
I 100% want B, not A. Why? Because to make the content require a tank means drastically changing the game. Also, at this point, how would you do it? You'd have to make the mobs hit way harder, so hard that only tank characters could do it. But right now, the classes are very close in defensive capabilities, so you'd have to make us even tankier. Very quickly this becomes a gear issue. Now in order to tank the content you are in, you need the best gear. Tanks have always been the most gear dependant of the classes. No other class type has a can or can't do relationship with the content, for other classes its how well they do it. I don't want this.
So you have to make us not just a tank. Sure, let our "trick" be we are more defensive and agro minded. Honestly, that works just fine. We have some control powers, can get some agro, etc. We don't have agro-lock, but we don't need it. The problem is, we don't bring anything else to the table. Less than half the DPS? No way. The KC armor gimmick? At first I was mad about this, but the only real problem was the timing of it. A T1 armor set shouldn't be considered one of the redeeming class qualities, but they shoulda fixed us before nerfing that.
I think you leave our defense and agro where it is, and just increase our DPS to be like 85% of the other classes. Maybe 80% if you give us more buffing capabilities. Other classes should think of a GF as "he makes it easier. He holds some agro so I don't get beat, can take a bit of a punch, and his buffs are nice. For that, I can accept he is doing less DPS". Look at the cleric. People don't even question having him low DPS, because he brings so much to the table. But as a tank, we don't bring nearly as much, so we need to be just another DPS, albeit a bit more defensive as one.
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checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited April 2014
FYI. With the most recent patch on the preview server, the GS boost from the Conqueror path is gone. It does not mean that the Conqueror Path's end feat (Reckless Attacker) no longer doubles power. It still does. It just means it is no longer calculated in the GS.
So, all the 18-20k GS GFs will be knocked down (GS-wise) to 15-17. Oh well.
My 19.9k GF only has a 14.8k GS on the test server. I was stacking power so I guess it inflated it quite a bit. At least now my GS reflects how <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> my GF is.
I would like the tab key to be able to put a buffing utiltiy on it like ITF, KC, IW, KV, and a hard taunt (or just current mark).
This would make us more tanky, and do more DPS if you have the wraitful warrior feat- 15% more dps.
I WANT TO BE A PERMA FRAY.
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sutherlandnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited April 2014
I couldn't agree with you more shamgar4. I was hoping that when they brought out the swordmaster paragon that this would help fill the gap but unfortunately with such low DPS Base that paragon path is completely useless.
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khaltzburgMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited April 2014
i felt the pain and agony of the swordsmaster paragon as i got a lot of hate when people telling me and expecting me to tank, which is i made it a semi tanker
There hasnt been a single coment on this subforum from a Dev in months... what do you expect? i will continue enjoying my GF because i find it fun to play, but im playing less and less, waiting for the new mod, i tell myself, but truth is... fun is the only thing our class have.
OK something is definitely bugged in GF, it is showing 6k power (first paragon path buff), in the encounter trays its showing 5128-5708 physical for "Lunging Strike" (ignoring all enchants and bonuses and feats ... bla) it ALWAYS deal 3500-4800 ON DUMMIES. Not sure what is wrong. anyone can confirm this ? or is my character bugged
Well our class has been undergoing almost no change since the official start of the game.
Only a few minor things have changed since then and if we put that next to the dramatic changes the GWF and HR had recently i can tell you that we are falling way behind.
I noticed that on the HR feedback , many people wer complaining in a short time period and as a result the devs got together and did smthing about the HR issues.
If we could do the same probably ....we can change/fix few things about the class atleast.
"OK something is definitely bugged in GF, it is showing 6k power (first paragon path buff), in the encounter trays its showing 5128-5708 physical for "Lunging Strike" (ignoring all enchants and bonuses and feats ... bla) it ALWAYS deal 3500-4800 ON DUMMIES. Not sure what is wrong. anyone can confirm this ? or is my character bugged "
same for me.Everything hits lower than the tooltip on dummies.
I think the whole class is bugged.
I should hit LS with 7,1k dmg.yet never ever in my log saw anything above 4800-4900.same on dummies.
All encounters the same.GW ,BS ,AoD...everything hits way lower than on tooltips
"OK something is definitely bugged in GF, it is showing 6k power (first paragon path buff), in the encounter trays its showing 5128-5708 physical for "Lunging Strike" (ignoring all enchants and bonuses and feats ... bla) it ALWAYS deal 3500-4800 ON DUMMIES. Not sure what is wrong. anyone can confirm this ? or is my character bugged "
same for me.Everything hits lower than the tooltip on dummies.
I think the whole class is bugged.
I should hit LS with 7,1k dmg.yet never ever in my log saw anything above 4800-4900.same on dummies.
All encounters the same.GW ,BS ,AoD...everything hits way lower than on tooltips
Take off -Combat Superiority passive and try again
^
I just did it.With out i should hit for 5,5-6,2k. Nah.3,9-4,4 on dummy again.
And to add that i have the fully 5th rank feat of tactical superiority of Conq tree.
it is a flat 15% increase WITHOUT the prequisitive to be hitted first.So in any case with the CS on it should do the dmg that was written in tooltip.
yet for the sake of experiment i did the test.even with out the feat on ,still the damage on dummy is almost 20% lerss than it should be.
And to clarify something ,when you take out the CS feat the tooltip lowers the damage of the enc.Yet i hit in almost all encounters 20% less.i am prety sure all conqs have the same problem.
Crtpyic is in a quadary when it comes to GF. They created a tank where none is needed. They created a game that runs on mobility and gave them next to none. They created a game that requires high damage and gave them none. They created a class in opposition to their own game and now they don't know what to do about it. So they ignore the GF community hoping they will go away or become bank mules.
Yes yes I know it's not true, but it sure seems like it.
Here is my suggestions. I know it is a waste of time, but it makes me feel better...
1) Up weapon damage by like 25%
2) Put Fray on tab
3) Shields: Double the ac, add some HP, and have guard regain or something to sustain guard on the shield. This is the item that makes us a "tank", it should be worth the loss of dps.
4) Put KC-ish effects on T2.5/Black Ice gear. If you really think KC is OP (seriously?), fine, but don't go so worthless as the effect on HG.
I think these things would help a ton to the class. Put us "in the ballpark" for damage, still could be considered the tank class, and make us wanted. Make us like a DC, where you are happy to have it in your group, even if they aren't dealing tons of damage.
First of all i want to say a thing that i read often in that discussions from fellow GFs.
"Devs should give us buffs but balanced ,good for pve but not to make us overpowered in pvp"
God.Do you ever read EVER in these forums a GWF/TR/HR/CW asking the same thing???Why to hinder our selves?
I never heard a GWF saying "i want buffs but nah,don't make me too op".
The only thing the other classes care is to be superior from other classes in both pvp /pve.And some of you try to be polite not too upset the GWFs and the CWs.What do you think if you are not too "op" (?) in pvp they will be your new friends and twill take you to CN/VT/MC??What are you?The GWFs attorneys and lawers??GWFs are the one that sent our class to recycle bin and GWFs are the ones that jump over your corpses in PVP.
I am sure 90% of created GFs never saw these dungs and never will.But ok continue to mentally self castratte our classs asking from the devs "not too op GFs".
Gosh the IV SEnt was bugged with his DG feat for 4 months ,the devs actually will fix it and for compensation boosted the destroyer damage by 60-70%!!!Did you see any Sent in forums to say" Dear devs.We are too op in pvp.take our bugged DG feat back".
Or a destroyer saying "Dear devs.60% buff to our ridicoulous already high dps is too much.We will be OP.Please buff us but only a little".
We are not OP.We are the low of the low.Next to cleric.Actually behind it in desirability.
For this situation I PUT THE BLAME PARTIALLY TO GF PROMINENT COMMUNITY WHO IS PASSIVE.And sometimes clue less.
Prominent Gfs in the forums that give feedback t devs never asked the obvious.DPS INCREASE.
As said again and again:In this game aggro is DIRECTLY influenced by damage.So instead of asking impractical solutions ,in order to increase our aggro,just ask the easiet and most obvious solution.DPS increase ,at least 25-30%.Minimum.
About survivability and "tankiness".With defense hard cap at around 4000 ,even if our shields get 16AC that's a mere 2,5% defence increase to a 46% DR GF.Unnoticable.Survivability can be increased indirectly by increasing dps encounters and dailies.So while a GF tank mobs actually to be able to thin their numbers or to keep theirr numbers under control.Otherwise the adds will get more and more and more untill GF dies.
My proposals:
All offensive enc of GF increased dmg by at LEAST 30%.
Enforced threat instead of max 8 targets to be dinstance radious.Not hindered by number.Every add in a spesific dinstance around GF to be hit.I don't mind long dinstance.A good GF should be inside the mobs core while activating ET anyway.
Into the Fray and IW ,all stats and bonuses buff.
More HP bonus from constitution.
Some love to swordmaster paragon path.I am tired to see 99% of GFs to be IV path....
Hyper: mindset is probably more of an influence here than you think. People who choose support classes (tanks/healers) usually do so because they like helping others and being the lynchpin around which the party gravitates. They are very rarely of the PEW PEW PEW ZOMG NUMBERZ mindset (that's what DPS classes are for), and thus tend to be less aggressive and vocal.
Also, to be brutally honest, they're also less popular, so even if GFs were incredibly vocal, it'd still be a fairly quiet voice in a crowd of angry deeps classes, and if cryptic are going to choose who to listen to, it's usually going to be the most numerous.
Plus, frankly, they've created a tank class in a game that doesn't favour (or even need) tanking, so even if they wanted to fix it, it'd be a substantial rework of core game mechanics.
morsitans said
"Hyper: mindset is probably more of an influence here than you think. People who choose support classes (tanks/healers) usually do so because they like helping others and being the lynchpin around which the party gravitates. They are very rarely of the PEW PEW PEW ZOMG NUMBERZ mindset (that's what DPS classes are for), and thus tend to be less aggressive and vocal."
In principal and generally i agree with you.In other MMOs that is the norm.However NW is an action based MMO and was advertised as such ,so while the majority of GFs tend to like the support type,
they are also around a substantial percentage of GFs wanting more action.
Proof?Conq path is the most spread out path by a large margin.Actually the 60-70% of GFs around that insist in NW and playing this class are Conqs.
Defender as a concept sounds good but whoever chooses it sooner or later faces the bitter truth: Defender only has 5% more defence and 10% more block from Conq while has less aggro and 30-50% less dmg.
Thinking more of it i think the left GFs post 60s of NW are the zerg type
"Also, to be brutally honest, they're also less popular, so even if GFs were incredibly vocal, it'd still be a fairly quiet voice in a crowd of angry deeps classes, and if cryptic are going to choose who to listen to, it's usually going to be the most numerous."
Hm.Not sure .the diagram of cryptic showing some data in a thread "3 milion players slaughtered in NW" showd that 13% of new chars were GFs while the most popular,HRs were just 19 or 21% if i remember correctly.So GF is less desirable yes,but with not so much of a difference.GWfs for example were just 16%.
"Plus, frankly, they've created a tank class in a game that doesn't favour (or even need) tanking, so even if they wanted to fix it, it'd be a substantial rework of core game mechanics.[/QUOTE]"
I also here agree with you.if we stick to mainstream theories and dogma.But in the other hand is gaming a bible or a secret book that anyone has to abide?For exampple CONTROL Wiz in NW is the number 1 dps.
TR with encounters and dailies can be immune to damage for prolonged periods of time.DD says nothing of leather armoured rogues that go into melee face to face with plate armoured footmen and annihilate them.
GWF the archetype of the Barbarian class has around 40% DR and with unstoppable goes to 80-90%.Where is the lore in this classes?Nowhere to be found.Why GFs must follow the dogma and suffer while all the other classes bypass it and having fun?
And as said above for me at least the solution is pretty simple.DPS increase of GF.Not in order to be another DPS,but to i think and expalined that with increased dmg a Gf would tank better....
Hello, I'm not GF, I am just an HR that would like to show my point of view, apart from all the points with which I agree (first, GWF have a great DPS and a good survivability, sometimes even more than a GF and it's shouldn't be that way... and second, there sould be a boost in GF damage by 15%-20%), I think that the problem with this game is that Aggro shouldn't be so influenced by the damage, that only makes that the GF can never do their job properly, and I mean that even with a 20% more damage the problem wouldn't be solved, in my point of view GF should have more HP, DEF and more feats with Treath Generating or Taunts to make them what they have to do, and the Aggro should be more influenced by the distance you are from a foe, so for example, in a dungeon, all could wait to the GF make they do like in every other MMO I've played, let them be the first to Aggro the mobs while a priest is healing him. Even so I don't mean I want to make that 80% of the mob should be targeting the GF (nobody would survive that), nor shouldn't be scattered attacking anyone who hurts them as now.
EDIT: I also find that life steal make almost all clases less dependent on a DC/GF to survive, maybe there should be a little nerf in the life steal stat (something like 35%) and the other thing is that CW have to much CC.
Certainly they are many things that need to be fixed in the class.
The thing that worries me the most is the The Developers idea's about the 2 Melee classes as sharing their paragon powers is that they should be placed EQUAL and with its own distinguish Powers at the same time.
Now i cant see any benefit in a PvE group by taking a GF.
While the same group could perform the run much faster with a Destroyer GWF.
Now in PvP the only absolute advantage that GF has over GWF is that one extra prone encounter.
We cant tank as much, we cant hold a point as much and most definitely cant do as much DPS/Burst as the other melee class.
So after the stated differences i am asking: Where is the balance between the two melee classes ?!
The devs silence on GF issues is really telling here. I wish they had class assigned devs like other mmo's that would, from time to time, enter discussions and answer questions. All we get as GF's is ignored it seems. Oh well , if wishes were fishes.
Hm.Not sure .the diagram of cryptic showing some data in a thread "3 milion players slaughtered in NW" showd that 13% of new chars were GFs while the most popular,HRs were just 19 or 21% if i remember correctly.So GF is less desirable yes,but with not so much of a difference.GWfs for example were just 16%.
"
Well that chart showed ALL players: both active and inactive. I believe many of the guardians were the latter. I mean, when you log in, how many gf's do you see? 7 a day? Maybe less? And it's the same with clerics. And compared to hunger rangers or great weapon fighters, what percentage are we? It seems like a LOT less than 13%.
Honestly I think the open world PVP in mod 3 is a bad idea. But it is going to be good for my GF. Let me explain. She's already a beast at PVP. With timing you can burn down anything in the game. Maybe not as great at PVE as some of my other toons but respectable. Since the plan seems to be nerfing KC as well I have built a 1/2 Grim 1/2 Profound set that gives my (conq) a little more power than Timeless. Sure you lose the crit bonus but our crit is kind of garbage anyway. So picture that you are farming black ice in a PVP area wearing that combo. Hit P switch in bull for threat and youa re a suitablke PVP monstrosity. Can't do that with most other characters.
OK something is definitely bugged in GF, it is showing 6k power (first paragon path buff), in the encounter trays its showing 5128-5708 physical for "Lunging Strike" (ignoring all enchants and bonuses and feats ... bla) it ALWAYS deal 3500-4800 ON DUMMIES. Not sure what is wrong. anyone can confirm this ? or is my character bugged
I don't know about Dummies in particular, but I think all mobs in this game have mitigation. Otherwise mitigation reducing effects that are very common on equipment would not actually do anything For example, "lowers defense by 400" requires mobs to have something to lower. I wouldn't assume that the dummies didn't have some trash version.
I read somewhere that the damage as indicated in the power section includes the 1/3 of the cone area. This is ofcourse really silly, but there you go...
Comments
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
My GF is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, I am a PvP'r and I love PvE as well. I also play a DC, a HR, and a CW. All of them are in rank 9's and 10's with respectable armor sets and high gear scores.
I love playing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as my main but I am finding myself playing my other toons more and more. I believe I will eventually completely phase him out. I love him, but he needs to be buffed in an amazing way. Any other class with similar gear and enchants will outdps, outtank, out CC me. Toons with gear scores 3 to 5k lower than mine still outdps, outcc, outtank me and that is a real problem.
Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR
Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
So they have two choices to fix it.
A) Make the content require a tank. That means hitting harder, no red circles to be able to dodge, etc.
I 100% want B, not A. Why? Because to make the content require a tank means drastically changing the game. Also, at this point, how would you do it? You'd have to make the mobs hit way harder, so hard that only tank characters could do it. But right now, the classes are very close in defensive capabilities, so you'd have to make us even tankier. Very quickly this becomes a gear issue. Now in order to tank the content you are in, you need the best gear. Tanks have always been the most gear dependant of the classes. No other class type has a can or can't do relationship with the content, for other classes its how well they do it. I don't want this.
So you have to make us not just a tank. Sure, let our "trick" be we are more defensive and agro minded. Honestly, that works just fine. We have some control powers, can get some agro, etc. We don't have agro-lock, but we don't need it. The problem is, we don't bring anything else to the table. Less than half the DPS? No way. The KC armor gimmick? At first I was mad about this, but the only real problem was the timing of it. A T1 armor set shouldn't be considered one of the redeeming class qualities, but they shoulda fixed us before nerfing that.
I think you leave our defense and agro where it is, and just increase our DPS to be like 85% of the other classes. Maybe 80% if you give us more buffing capabilities. Other classes should think of a GF as "he makes it easier. He holds some agro so I don't get beat, can take a bit of a punch, and his buffs are nice. For that, I can accept he is doing less DPS". Look at the cleric. People don't even question having him low DPS, because he brings so much to the table. But as a tank, we don't bring nearly as much, so we need to be just another DPS, albeit a bit more defensive as one.
So, all the 18-20k GS GFs will be knocked down (GS-wise) to 15-17. Oh well.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
I would like the tab key to be able to put a buffing utiltiy on it like ITF, KC, IW, KV, and a hard taunt (or just current mark).
This would make us more tanky, and do more DPS if you have the wraitful warrior feat- 15% more dps.
I WANT TO BE A PERMA FRAY.
Only a few minor things have changed since then and if we put that next to the dramatic changes the GWF and HR had recently i can tell you that we are falling way behind.
I noticed that on the HR feedback , many people wer complaining in a short time period and as a result the devs got together and did smthing about the HR issues.
If we could do the same probably ....we can change/fix few things about the class atleast.
same for me.Everything hits lower than the tooltip on dummies.
I think the whole class is bugged.
I should hit LS with 7,1k dmg.yet never ever in my log saw anything above 4800-4900.same on dummies.
All encounters the same.GW ,BS ,AoD...everything hits way lower than on tooltips
Take off -Combat Superiority passive and try again
I just did it.With out i should hit for 5,5-6,2k. Nah.3,9-4,4 on dummy again.
And to add that i have the fully 5th rank feat of tactical superiority of Conq tree.
it is a flat 15% increase WITHOUT the prequisitive to be hitted first.So in any case with the CS on it should do the dmg that was written in tooltip.
yet for the sake of experiment i did the test.even with out the feat on ,still the damage on dummy is almost 20% lerss than it should be.
And to clarify something ,when you take out the CS feat the tooltip lowers the damage of the enc.Yet i hit in almost all encounters 20% less.i am prety sure all conqs have the same problem.
Yes yes I know it's not true, but it sure seems like it.
1) Up weapon damage by like 25%
2) Put Fray on tab
3) Shields: Double the ac, add some HP, and have guard regain or something to sustain guard on the shield. This is the item that makes us a "tank", it should be worth the loss of dps.
4) Put KC-ish effects on T2.5/Black Ice gear. If you really think KC is OP (seriously?), fine, but don't go so worthless as the effect on HG.
I think these things would help a ton to the class. Put us "in the ballpark" for damage, still could be considered the tank class, and make us wanted. Make us like a DC, where you are happy to have it in your group, even if they aren't dealing tons of damage.
Really GF dead in game, still used in premades. All guilds prefers GWF
GWF > GF in all aspects ( HP, DPS, TANK, SPEED, PRONE....)
GF !! always liked, but things look like they will not change
"Devs should give us buffs but balanced ,good for pve but not to make us overpowered in pvp"
God.Do you ever read EVER in these forums a GWF/TR/HR/CW asking the same thing???Why to hinder our selves?
I never heard a GWF saying "i want buffs but nah,don't make me too op".
The only thing the other classes care is to be superior from other classes in both pvp /pve.And some of you try to be polite not too upset the GWFs and the CWs.What do you think if you are not too "op" (?) in pvp they will be your new friends and twill take you to CN/VT/MC??What are you?The GWFs attorneys and lawers??GWFs are the one that sent our class to recycle bin and GWFs are the ones that jump over your corpses in PVP.
I am sure 90% of created GFs never saw these dungs and never will.But ok continue to mentally self castratte our classs asking from the devs "not too op GFs".
Gosh the IV SEnt was bugged with his DG feat for 4 months ,the devs actually will fix it and for compensation boosted the destroyer damage by 60-70%!!!Did you see any Sent in forums to say" Dear devs.We are too op in pvp.take our bugged DG feat back".
Or a destroyer saying "Dear devs.60% buff to our ridicoulous already high dps is too much.We will be OP.Please buff us but only a little".
We are not OP.We are the low of the low.Next to cleric.Actually behind it in desirability.
For this situation I PUT THE BLAME PARTIALLY TO GF PROMINENT COMMUNITY WHO IS PASSIVE.And sometimes clue less.
Prominent Gfs in the forums that give feedback t devs never asked the obvious.DPS INCREASE.
As said again and again:In this game aggro is DIRECTLY influenced by damage.So instead of asking impractical solutions ,in order to increase our aggro,just ask the easiet and most obvious solution.DPS increase ,at least 25-30%.Minimum.
About survivability and "tankiness".With defense hard cap at around 4000 ,even if our shields get 16AC that's a mere 2,5% defence increase to a 46% DR GF.Unnoticable.Survivability can be increased indirectly by increasing dps encounters and dailies.So while a GF tank mobs actually to be able to thin their numbers or to keep theirr numbers under control.Otherwise the adds will get more and more and more untill GF dies.
My proposals:
All offensive enc of GF increased dmg by at LEAST 30%.
Enforced threat instead of max 8 targets to be dinstance radious.Not hindered by number.Every add in a spesific dinstance around GF to be hit.I don't mind long dinstance.A good GF should be inside the mobs core while activating ET anyway.
Into the Fray and IW ,all stats and bonuses buff.
More HP bonus from constitution.
Some love to swordmaster paragon path.I am tired to see 99% of GFs to be IV path....
Also, to be brutally honest, they're also less popular, so even if GFs were incredibly vocal, it'd still be a fairly quiet voice in a crowd of angry deeps classes, and if cryptic are going to choose who to listen to, it's usually going to be the most numerous.
Plus, frankly, they've created a tank class in a game that doesn't favour (or even need) tanking, so even if they wanted to fix it, it'd be a substantial rework of core game mechanics.
"Hyper: mindset is probably more of an influence here than you think. People who choose support classes (tanks/healers) usually do so because they like helping others and being the lynchpin around which the party gravitates. They are very rarely of the PEW PEW PEW ZOMG NUMBERZ mindset (that's what DPS classes are for), and thus tend to be less aggressive and vocal."
In principal and generally i agree with you.In other MMOs that is the norm.However NW is an action based MMO and was advertised as such ,so while the majority of GFs tend to like the support type,
they are also around a substantial percentage of GFs wanting more action.
Proof?Conq path is the most spread out path by a large margin.Actually the 60-70% of GFs around that insist in NW and playing this class are Conqs.
Defender as a concept sounds good but whoever chooses it sooner or later faces the bitter truth: Defender only has 5% more defence and 10% more block from Conq while has less aggro and 30-50% less dmg.
Thinking more of it i think the left GFs post 60s of NW are the zerg type
"Also, to be brutally honest, they're also less popular, so even if GFs were incredibly vocal, it'd still be a fairly quiet voice in a crowd of angry deeps classes, and if cryptic are going to choose who to listen to, it's usually going to be the most numerous."
Hm.Not sure .the diagram of cryptic showing some data in a thread "3 milion players slaughtered in NW" showd that 13% of new chars were GFs while the most popular,HRs were just 19 or 21% if i remember correctly.So GF is less desirable yes,but with not so much of a difference.GWfs for example were just 16%.
"Plus, frankly, they've created a tank class in a game that doesn't favour (or even need) tanking, so even if they wanted to fix it, it'd be a substantial rework of core game mechanics.[/QUOTE]"
I also here agree with you.if we stick to mainstream theories and dogma.But in the other hand is gaming a bible or a secret book that anyone has to abide?For exampple CONTROL Wiz in NW is the number 1 dps.
TR with encounters and dailies can be immune to damage for prolonged periods of time.DD says nothing of leather armoured rogues that go into melee face to face with plate armoured footmen and annihilate them.
GWF the archetype of the Barbarian class has around 40% DR and with unstoppable goes to 80-90%.Where is the lore in this classes?Nowhere to be found.Why GFs must follow the dogma and suffer while all the other classes bypass it and having fun?
And as said above for me at least the solution is pretty simple.DPS increase of GF.Not in order to be another DPS,but to i think and expalined that with increased dmg a Gf would tank better....
EDIT: I also find that life steal make almost all clases less dependent on a DC/GF to survive, maybe there should be a little nerf in the life steal stat (something like 35%) and the other thing is that CW have to much CC.
The thing that worries me the most is the The Developers idea's about the 2 Melee classes as sharing their paragon powers is that they should be placed EQUAL and with its own distinguish Powers at the same time.
Now i cant see any benefit in a PvE group by taking a GF.
While the same group could perform the run much faster with a Destroyer GWF.
Now in PvP the only absolute advantage that GF has over GWF is that one extra prone encounter.
We cant tank as much, we cant hold a point as much and most definitely cant do as much DPS/Burst as the other melee class.
So after the stated differences i am asking: Where is the balance between the two melee classes ?!
Well that chart showed ALL players: both active and inactive. I believe many of the guardians were the latter. I mean, when you log in, how many gf's do you see? 7 a day? Maybe less? And it's the same with clerics. And compared to hunger rangers or great weapon fighters, what percentage are we? It seems like a LOT less than 13%.
I don't know about Dummies in particular, but I think all mobs in this game have mitigation. Otherwise mitigation reducing effects that are very common on equipment would not actually do anything