To provide a little more clarity on this change, I want to mention a few things. First, this change has PVE repercussions (and PVP repercussions at tiers that are not the top tier) as well, so that is part of why this is happening. It currently does the same total damage each time you push the button if you have 3 targets as you did when it used to hit one target 4 times. Second, we aren't really happy with Fox Shift being the go to single target burst power, and would like to explore buffs in other places to make some more options for that viable (this also has the side effect of making Ranger DPS feel much more sustained rather than bursty, which we think feels pretty good overall). The changes to Thorn strike are a good first step, and we are considering a couple of other possible changes to several different powers, but all of those are up in the air. Finally, there are misconceptions about the Thorn Strike changes. First, the damage bonus will increase as the target gets less and less health. Meaning as a fight goes on you will start hitting harder and harder with it. And because it activates so much faster now and has a longer reach and wider area it is *much* harder to avoid now. And the bonus you get from the target's HP going down is much more substantial so it will just feel better and better to land that as the fight goes on. This makes carrying Thorn Ward and Thorn Strike much easier to justify and should make them a much more viable option on your encounter bar. Also, Forest Meditation is getting fixed so that at R3 you will still retain your R2 bonus, so that is a nice bug fix just to make things feel a little better across the board.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Ok you have me sold now if Thorn Strike is so much more viable because currently Thorn Ward is already on our bars in high-end pvp as it really tears up tanky char's making node capture that much easier. Also, Thorn Ward helps to identify where stealth TR's are located. So if your saying Thorn Strike is now a very nice damage skill that scales WELL with low h.p., then that should justify the FS change. I happily look forward to seeing the new changes and the Paragon Path as well. Keep up the good work, and I just wanted to let you know that you have restored my confidence with your fast feedback and clarity. GG Mancrush GG
Ok you have me sold now if Thorn Strike is so much more viable because currently Thorn Ward is already on our bars in high-end pvp as it really tears up tanky char's making node capture that much easier. Also, Thorn Ward helps to identify where stealth TR's are located. So if your saying Thorn Strike is now a very nice damage skill that scales WELL with low h.p., then that should justify the FS change. I happily look forward to seeing the new changes and the Paragon Path as well. Keep up the good work, and I just wanted to let you know that you have restored my confidence with your fast feedback and clarity. GG Mancrush GG
no it doesnt justify the FS change... fox shift is TOTALLY fine the way it is... and its actually one of the most fun spells to use ingame for me...feels really cool...it has nothing op in it.. and the change to take off its power and buff thorn ward instead is just pure randomness.... just leave fox as it is.. cause it needs no change.. and it ll be total <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if nerf goes through.. AND buff thorn ward on same time... no top tier players feel HR is any op... roots were bugged.. and fixed.. and are kinda meeh now... HR isnt a class that really needs nerfs
Thorn strike:
Excellent. Can you consider making it a targeted aoe at least? Making the skill track a primary target will really add to its usefulness.
Ps: current description says higher hp = higher damage.
Thorn ward:
Can you please comment as to whether or not this should be dealing damage to enemies in stealth? It currently hits but deals no damage.
As thorn is being set up as our new go to set of skills, it would be nice if the rogue class feature does not completely negate it.
If you want to see hrs doing "sustained damage" maybe consider rebuffing rapid shot/strike by +10% damage or reducing delay between hits (shot) and delay between 3rd and 4th hit (strike).
Thorn strike:
Excellent. Can you consider making it a targeted aoe at least? Making the skill track a primary target will really add to its usefulness.
Ps: current description says higher hp = higher damage.
Thorn ward:
Can you please comment as to whether or not this should be dealing damage to enemies in stealth? It currently hits but deals no damage.
As thorn is being set up as our new go to set of skills, it would be nice if the rogue class feature does not completely negate it.
If you want to see hrs doing "sustained damage" maybe consider rebuffing rapid shot/strike by +10% damage or reducing delay between hits (shot) and delay between 3rd and 4th hit (strike).
That is the current behavior. The changes we made will convert it to the new behavior. I would like to see how it feels as is right now before making it track a main target, since it is so much faster.
As far as Thorn Ward, I would have to dig into it. It probably shouldn't actually hit stealth players, but I want to possibly experiment with some different options to give players counterplay against stealth. That said, I think changes direct to how stealth functions are a better place to put those, rather than trying to give individual classes "stealth busting" powers.
Are there any ideas to rework the HR dodge? Because right now, HR is the only class with dodge skills that cant dodge to first hit from constricting arrow to avoid the whole debuff.
That is the current behavior. The changes we made will convert it to the new behavior. I would like to see how it feels as is right now before making it track a main target, since it is so much faster.
As far as Thorn Ward, I would have to dig into it. It probably shouldn't actually hit stealth players, but I want to possibly experiment with some different options to give players counterplay against stealth. That said, I think changes direct to how stealth functions are a better place to put those, rather than trying to give individual classes "stealth busting" powers.
You are aware that with the proposed FS changes it will no longer be of any use in pvp?
And skills that don't target an enemy are rarely useful, very easy to miss or not even activate it in the right direction.
They already made roots useless, nerfing our stun only makes us less viable. As it is now, not many HR's use roots anymore.. so another wasted power point.
Disrupting is enough for stun and boar charge>constricting if you know how to use boar since prones are still the king of cc. Sure boar feels sometimes buggy but with practice it can be really effective. If something should be reworked, it's constricting and paragon path powers instead of Fox Shift.
Ok so basically you're making thorn strike an execute for the ranger. That's good. Fixing foxes shift to make us damage and cc immune when activated is a good bug fix and long over due. Nerfing the damage by having it only hit a single target once......bad idea even with a 30% increase in its damage unless you plan to buff rapid strikes and aimed strikes damage by 25% and speed up there animations, increase the distance and damage of bulls strike, make aimed shot so the enemy can't negate it by simply hitting you, make electric shot hit like rapid shots and increase the damage of clear the ground by 25%. You see what I'm sayin here? As of right now in pvp we have melee foxes shift. In pve we have split shot. Everything else is either not worth using or it's a utility encounter. Please don't ruin this class. Just fix what needs fixed. It has a nice balance to it when switching between ranged and melee. It's a fun but certainly not over powered play style by any stretch.
Despite the way the community reacts at times, it is really cool to see this kind of very involved interaction between player and developer. I also learned a lot more about the upcoming changes than I had seen in another thread. Sounds like these changes are well thought out and will be implemented with other changes to keep things balanced as well.
Despite the way the community reacts at times, it is really cool to see this kind of very involved interaction between player and developer. I also learned a lot more about the upcoming changes than I had seen in another thread. Sounds like these changes are well thought out and will be implemented with other changes to keep things balanced as well.
I wont say this is 100% but once there was more dialogue things calmed down. Would be nice to see more of this in other threads. Thanks gentlemancrush!
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Ok so basically you're making thorn strike an execute for the ranger. That's good. Fixing foxes shift to make us damage and cc immune when activated is a good bug fix and long over due. Nerfing the damage by having it only hit a single target once......bad idea even with a 30% increase in its damage unless you plan to buff rapid strikes and aimed strikes damage by 25% and speed up there animations, increase the distance and damage of bulls strike, make aimed shot so the enemy can't negate it by simply hitting you, make electric shot hit like rapid shots and increase the damage of clear the ground by 25%. You see what I'm sayin here? As of right now in pvp we have melee foxes shift. In pve we have split shot. Everything else is either not worth using or it's a utility encounter. Please don't ruin this class. Just fix what needs fixed. It has a nice balance to it when switching between ranged and melee. It's a fun but certainly not over powered play style by any stretch.
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It s really sad how devs have to gut always like no tomorrow. FS is fine at it is: few damage without crits, good damages with crits. Hr are targetable during it. However if you want to rebalance the overall damages of their encounters just buff something and nerf the successive damage after the first bounce of FS..of about a 5-7/100 on the same target. Profit...but no it will not happen because preview is really not a preview.. i dont really know why it exists
If anything needs changing in Hunter Ranger. Its its paragon powers.
Electric shot does way too little damage and shoots too slow. Where you can use split shot for the exact same effect but greater and better outcome at a more faster rate.
Split the ground needs its damage increased.
Cold Steel Hurricane is the worse daily skill in the entire game right now. it hits less or on par than an encounter (not an HR encounter, More like Roar or Blitz ) , uses up all your AP, and you barely even notice the slow it grants. Whatever you hit with Cold Steel Hurricane, you might as well just use one Split Shot. No one uses this daily, no one. If it stunned instead of slowed, maybe, possible, it would at least be something to consider. but one thing is for sure, it needs a drastic damage increase.
I dont use any of the buff abilities, but the people that do use them, I have not even noticed it.
everything with the HR at current is fine and feels fine. I dont mind the change to Thorn Ward (as that was a very subpar ability and I admit, it needed something). But Fox shift is perfectly fine, any change done to it, throws the entire skill out of whack. It feels perfectly balanced as is. What it needs is its paragon powers adjusted or reworked, for as its current, when the new pathfinder paragon comes. Im switching immediately, simply because I do not use a single power from this paragon path, and many other rangers do not (except split the sky), because they are just bad, simply bad in every conceivable way and in function. Whatever they offer, something else does way better. That doesnt mean scale those down too, that means scale them up or we're left with just a poor functioning class altogether.
The only even remotely hard hitting melee attack a hunter ranger has will be taken away.The way about how it functions now that actually makes it balance is its ability to do decent damage but become interruptable or just out right wasted if the enemy reacts intime, or using it inefficently hitting a target, not realizing another is nearby and hitting them instead. I usually would not complain about being CC resist and non targetable during this attack, but I feel thats still a lesser compromise overall in the long term, and basically dulls down the innate strategy involved in using and countering the skill.
Im not saying all this because Im completely reliant on the skill, Im not one of those rangers thats a one trick pony. Using only Split Shot and Fox Shift. However for the ones that do, I cant blame them that much. Because when it comes down to it, alot of our skills (at wills, encounters and that one daily <another daily too, but thats being fixed but its rank 3 loses rank 2. I know>) are just not good. Most of our encounters are utility and support. but alot of them are not all that good at that. Hawk Shot and Stag heart for instance. And the damage ones we got, are not that good either, the ones you would figure be damaging. (thorn strike for instance which I mentioned before as an example that is indeed being improved). We're resorted to the only damage things that do decently such as Split shot, rapid shot/strikes (split strike is not very good btw), fox shift, hindering shot/strike, steel breeze, boar charge,and aimed shot/strike.
Most rangers I've seen only use half of thier skills list and leave the other half alone.
Hunter Rangers is at that fine point of the most balanced class at current. And any change to anything needs to be taken with greeeat care. The slightest adjustment such as the one proposed with Fox shift can upset that balance. But fixing and adjusting things that greatly needs fixing such as its paragon powers and some of its default powers that are hardly being used or considered should be.
I'm really glad they will look on the CC imunity on Fox Shift, just that will make up for the one hit only change, as for what I think, it will be hard for people to dodge it, since will be only one hit, I'm looking up for the thorn strike change. One thing tha bothers me thou is that Fox Shift is getting CC imunnity and fox cunning isn't, we don't want for it to negate all CC during it's duration, but to negate one CC hit as it does to the damage, it would be a great support skill.
Another thing I'd like to see looked up to is split the sky, I like all the aspects of the skills, except it's low damage, I don't know how it was on beta, so you guys tell me, I think that everyones agrees that it would be wonderful to have or it's damage turned back to how it was, or the snaring effect gets better.
Thx for all the responses ^^
I understand that FS may not be working as initially intended, but I implore the development team to not nerf it.
It is the only ability that allows burst over 5k dmg even on a crit right now in pvp, and it has some utlility which is an extreme boon to HRs.
As it stands, if you take that away from the class you eliminate its current playstyle as a mobile, reaction based class that has an option to get into a fight close up (not without its risks) and actually do some damage. I do not believe this is a question of the power being too strong as it still is in line, or behind almost every other dps classes burst encounter. Even if you make another ability strong enough to do 7-9k burst as a replacement losing the utlity of fox shifts ranged buff for the group will still hurt. And it seems highly unlikely that the buff to thorn strike is going to boost it anywhere near what would be needed to replace FS.
I sincerely hope this is more thought out before completion. It's a bit disheartnening though, wespecially when I read that the dev team seems to think FS makes one untargetable (you can be CC'd out of the animation in many diff ways and it can be dodged as well, the power is not without its caveats).
As the other post in our class forums sadly suggests, I hope this in the the "R.I.P. Fox shift" nerf that it seems to be.
I understand that FS may not be working as initially intended, but I implore the development team to not nerf it.
It is the only ability that allows burst over 5k dmg even on a crit right now in pvp, and it has some utlility which is an extreme boon to HRs.
As it stands, if you take that away from the class you eliminate its current playstyle as a mobile, reaction based class that has an option to get into a fight close up (not without its risks) and actually do some damage. I do not believe this is a question of the power being too strong as it still is in line, or behind almost every other dps classes burst encounter. Even if you make another ability strong enough to do 7-9k burst as a replacement losing the utlity of fox shifts ranged buff for the group will still hurt. And it seems highly unlikely that the buff to thorn strike is going to boost it anywhere near what would be needed to replace FS.
I sincerely hope this is more thought out before completion. It's a bit disheartnening though, wespecially when I read that the dev team seems to think FS makes one untargetable (you can be CC'd out of the animation in many diff ways and it can be dodged as well, the power is not without its caveats).
As the other post in our class forums sadly suggests, I hope this in the the "R.I.P. Fox shift" nerf that it seems to be.
This pattern plays over and over in games. I have seen it many times. A new character is released. They make it overpowered to garner interest. This sells character slots. ranger packages ad for gear etc... after the initial flood of money comes in they start nerfing the class down to become undesirable, except by a few legolas diehards in preparation for the new op class they will release, sell packs for, and then nerf. Happens in every game.
Eventually they will return the Hunter/Ranger back like they did the gwf after they gutted it in the beginning of the game. I hate to be so cliché about conspiracy theories, but it just seems to all fit together so well, and follow such an easy to see pattern that I couldn't help myself.
The devs are well aware of how this is going to hurt the HR community.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited March 2014
I am not happy(about the nerf) but i am glad the HR come in to the Nerfing Circle 1 more weak after another char get nerfed .Nerf devs are now more busy so longer to take when it comes to next char. Pvp update hit GWF and after GF hit the last update hit DC now HRs on screen next i think will be tr after tr i am sure CW comes and the circle will start agan...
I am not happy(about the nerf) but i am glad the HR come in to the Nerfing Circle 1 more weak after another char get nerfed .Nerf devs are now more busy so longer to take when it comes to next char. Pvp update hit GWF and after GF hit the last update hit DC now HRs on screen next i think will be tr after tr i am sure CW comes and the circle will start agan...
I find it highly entertaining how so many HRs are complaining about the FS changes, even going to such lengths as calling it the "ranger's bread and butter" and claiming people will abandon the class if it doesn't stay in the current state.
Somehow, I've never had any trouble topping the dps tables in PVE and causing massive mayhem in PVP without ever touching FS. At first I assumed it was glitched since it didn't match the description, so I avoided it exactly for that reason. It felt really cheap. Later on I found out it's apparently working as intended, but never felt need to get back to it. And I get along just fine. More than that.
This nerf is very welcome, FS is capable of outrageous burst damage to single targets. Good rangers will still perform well when it gets reworked, with or without it. And as for the bad ones losing their favorite imbalanced nuke that their whole tactics is based on? Actually learn the class or leave it, up to you.
...Actually learn the class or leave it, up to you.
.
When I you write things like this it makes you seem really uninformed and I highly doubt you tear it up because unless you are only sniping from atop some where. SW paragon has some limited skills and the rest are mediocre. Even aimed shot can barely top 5k on many GWF's if you are lucky and if some dust crosses your path AS will get interrupted.
I have a nature spec'd HR and the only thing he tears up if I dont equip FS is some flowers as I meditate. The buffs dont even feel like they compensate and with healing depression he is pretty gimp. There is an obvious discrepancy in how the powers scale, and alot of the rest are either utility or sub par. So please dont assume that you are so amazing and that other HR's should 'learn the class or leave'
Doof
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simplyawfulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 10
edited March 2014
Apparently it's not just Fox Shift:
Split Shot: The damage of this power has been reduced by 45%.
I am not happy(about the nerf) but i am glad the HR come in to the Nerfing Circle 1 more weak after another char get nerfed .Nerf devs are now more busy so longer to take when it comes to next char. Pvp update hit GWF and after GF hit the last update hit DC now HRs on screen next i think will be tr after tr i am sure CW comes and the circle will start agan...
I actually thought it would be TR then HR nerfs, but looks like both are going to happen in the not so distant future anyway. I disagree about CW coming after that though. I think after HR + TR get done with everything will settle down unless GWF gets another small nerf, but as long as these coming class changes are implemented properly I think things will settle down significantly in the nerf department.
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What exactly did you expect? They took one of the worst classes in the game and made it worse. There won't be a whole lot of positive responses.
I actually thought it would be TR then HR nerfs, but looks like both are going to happen in the not so distant future anyway. I disagree about CW coming after that though. I think after HR + TR get done with everything will settle down unless GWF gets another small nerf, but as long as these coming class changes are implemented properly I think things will settle down significantly in the nerf department.
Tack on the coming GWF changes and soon we'll be seeing 4x and 5x CW parties. Everyone else will be told that they're useless and bring nothing that a CW can't do better. Not that HRs aren't already used to that.
Tack on the coming GWF changes and soon we'll be seeing 4x and 5x CW parties. Everyone else will be told that they're useless and bring nothing that a CW can't do better. Not that HRs aren't already used to that.
Oh right, this game has PvE. I guess that could be a cause for a cycle to start again as well if not properly dealt with, but I suppose once you throw that in after TR/HR reworking I would think things would settle still.
This is my 2nd post on forums or so , because i somehow managed to enjoy the game itself
and didnt gone to forums to whine or ask or whatever, even though i was wondering how GWFs stay so overpowered for such a long time and GFs stay underpowered for even longer, and the only things that are being reviewed are other classes/nerfs.
I myself have a character of each class at 13k GS +
almost 16k PVP HR and 15k PVE HR which i dont use because i have 14K CW which is much more welcome in groups for dungeons.
So Ok lets assume the HR nerfs took their place , and look into PVE and PVP
PVE: (lets first assume that you were taken into a dungeon over a CW first which is rare)
your best encounters for PVE for doing damage (because you cant provide CC) are hindering shot (melee version for which you need to gather mobs) rain of arrows (which is so little aoe range that it mostly hits only 1 mob IF he doesnt move) , and thorn ward, now your atwills that you can use are - split shot and ...... yes only split shot since rapid shot is single target , and aim shot gets interrupted by pretty much anything.
after doing this in many dungeons i could never outdps good CWs, or good GWFs (my gs is 16k with p vorpal if any1 wonders)
so HR being a dps class cant OUTDPS CWs, AND have no CC.
with that being said , if I would gather a party for a dungeon id take CW or GWF or even TR over HR
PVP: Fights take place on a Point (unless you are ranged HR but thats a whole another story), use fox and it procs only twice (because there are RARE i mean VERY RARE occasions where there will be 3 people on the node standing near) so 3rd jump on fox pretty much will never proc, not to talk about those 1v1s , which will MOSTLY be the case that you proc only 1 hit of Fox on enemy, so your thorn strike which deals more damage as enemy gets lower is useless simply because you CANT get your enemy low as there are no encounters that actually do damage , so all you have to do is at wills which again are weaker then at wills of other classes.
lets say its a TR , you cant go face fight him because you will get flurry which outdamages everything u have by 50% with those bleeds and bile ticks.
Lets say its a GWF , then you have time window to at will him in between his prone chains (incase u are still alive after those)
Lets say its a CW, u cant even get close to him unless you use marauders rush, which will get dodged by good CW, now you need to follow it up with some attacks, which you simply dont have so you need to use at wills, and then youll get controlled and will not be able to go near a good CW again, so wait for your marauders rush cd again.
HRs main PVE ability is split shot which got nerfed, for whatever reason , get close to HR in pvp and he is not able to use in anymore anyways
HRs main PVP ability is fox, got nerfed.
Need to point out that there are many absolutely useless long cooldown abilies , like hawk shot
All classes have main Nuke dps ability: TRs have Shocking execution daily, and good at wills, CWs have encounters ,control spells with 7s CD ,and Ice knife daily GWFs have the whole arsenal of encounters which deal alot of damage and CC , and dailies which do CC and damage
so HRs need to have burst damage ability because after all HRs are dps class, and the only thing they had was Fox ,
and actually it requires alot of skill to land a fox properly without it being dodged or interrupted.
Suggestion: maybe make fox encounter charge consuming, like hindering shot, but auto activation, like if there is only 1 person it consumes only 1 charge with internal cooldown of 1s between charges, and if there is 3 of them then it consumes 3 charges, like healing word, just need a proper cooldown allocation, maybe 6s per charge
This is ridiculous...You're gonna nerf literally the ONLY decent melee attack HR's have, but yet GWF's are still crazy OP'd and TR's can still stay completely invisible to everyone? I totally agree with the split shot nerf, but I'm a full melee spec pvp HR. So what's the point of even having a melee path to choose if you're gonna nerf something crucial to a melee build like that?
Comments
Ok you have me sold now if Thorn Strike is so much more viable because currently Thorn Ward is already on our bars in high-end pvp as it really tears up tanky char's making node capture that much easier. Also, Thorn Ward helps to identify where stealth TR's are located. So if your saying Thorn Strike is now a very nice damage skill that scales WELL with low h.p., then that should justify the FS change. I happily look forward to seeing the new changes and the Paragon Path as well. Keep up the good work, and I just wanted to let you know that you have restored my confidence with your fast feedback and clarity. GG Mancrush GG
no it doesnt justify the FS change... fox shift is TOTALLY fine the way it is... and its actually one of the most fun spells to use ingame for me...feels really cool...it has nothing op in it.. and the change to take off its power and buff thorn ward instead is just pure randomness.... just leave fox as it is.. cause it needs no change.. and it ll be total <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if nerf goes through.. AND buff thorn ward on same time... no top tier players feel HR is any op... roots were bugged.. and fixed.. and are kinda meeh now... HR isnt a class that really needs nerfs
Excellent. Can you consider making it a targeted aoe at least? Making the skill track a primary target will really add to its usefulness.
Ps: current description says higher hp = higher damage.
Thorn ward:
Can you please comment as to whether or not this should be dealing damage to enemies in stealth? It currently hits but deals no damage.
As thorn is being set up as our new go to set of skills, it would be nice if the rogue class feature does not completely negate it.
If you want to see hrs doing "sustained damage" maybe consider rebuffing rapid shot/strike by +10% damage or reducing delay between hits (shot) and delay between 3rd and 4th hit (strike).
That is the current behavior. The changes we made will convert it to the new behavior. I would like to see how it feels as is right now before making it track a main target, since it is so much faster.
As far as Thorn Ward, I would have to dig into it. It probably shouldn't actually hit stealth players, but I want to possibly experiment with some different options to give players counterplay against stealth. That said, I think changes direct to how stealth functions are a better place to put those, rather than trying to give individual classes "stealth busting" powers.
You are aware that with the proposed FS changes it will no longer be of any use in pvp?
And skills that don't target an enemy are rarely useful, very easy to miss or not even activate it in the right direction.
Disrupting is enough for stun and boar charge>constricting if you know how to use boar since prones are still the king of cc. Sure boar feels sometimes buggy but with practice it can be really effective. If something should be reworked, it's constricting and paragon path powers instead of Fox Shift.
I wont say this is 100% but once there was more dialogue things calmed down. Would be nice to see more of this in other threads. Thanks gentlemancrush!
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this is positive and negative feedback and it is written in a constructive and respectful way.
taking pot shots at the devs because you do not agree with changes will not be tolerated.
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Electric shot does way too little damage and shoots too slow. Where you can use split shot for the exact same effect but greater and better outcome at a more faster rate.
Split the ground needs its damage increased.
Cold Steel Hurricane is the worse daily skill in the entire game right now. it hits less or on par than an encounter (not an HR encounter, More like Roar or Blitz ) , uses up all your AP, and you barely even notice the slow it grants. Whatever you hit with Cold Steel Hurricane, you might as well just use one Split Shot. No one uses this daily, no one. If it stunned instead of slowed, maybe, possible, it would at least be something to consider. but one thing is for sure, it needs a drastic damage increase.
I dont use any of the buff abilities, but the people that do use them, I have not even noticed it.
everything with the HR at current is fine and feels fine. I dont mind the change to Thorn Ward (as that was a very subpar ability and I admit, it needed something). But Fox shift is perfectly fine, any change done to it, throws the entire skill out of whack. It feels perfectly balanced as is. What it needs is its paragon powers adjusted or reworked, for as its current, when the new pathfinder paragon comes. Im switching immediately, simply because I do not use a single power from this paragon path, and many other rangers do not (except split the sky), because they are just bad, simply bad in every conceivable way and in function. Whatever they offer, something else does way better. That doesnt mean scale those down too, that means scale them up or we're left with just a poor functioning class altogether.
The only even remotely hard hitting melee attack a hunter ranger has will be taken away.The way about how it functions now that actually makes it balance is its ability to do decent damage but become interruptable or just out right wasted if the enemy reacts intime, or using it inefficently hitting a target, not realizing another is nearby and hitting them instead. I usually would not complain about being CC resist and non targetable during this attack, but I feel thats still a lesser compromise overall in the long term, and basically dulls down the innate strategy involved in using and countering the skill.
Im not saying all this because Im completely reliant on the skill, Im not one of those rangers thats a one trick pony. Using only Split Shot and Fox Shift. However for the ones that do, I cant blame them that much. Because when it comes down to it, alot of our skills (at wills, encounters and that one daily <another daily too, but thats being fixed but its rank 3 loses rank 2. I know>) are just not good. Most of our encounters are utility and support. but alot of them are not all that good at that. Hawk Shot and Stag heart for instance. And the damage ones we got, are not that good either, the ones you would figure be damaging. (thorn strike for instance which I mentioned before as an example that is indeed being improved). We're resorted to the only damage things that do decently such as Split shot, rapid shot/strikes (split strike is not very good btw), fox shift, hindering shot/strike, steel breeze, boar charge,and aimed shot/strike.
Most rangers I've seen only use half of thier skills list and leave the other half alone.
Hunter Rangers is at that fine point of the most balanced class at current. And any change to anything needs to be taken with greeeat care. The slightest adjustment such as the one proposed with Fox shift can upset that balance. But fixing and adjusting things that greatly needs fixing such as its paragon powers and some of its default powers that are hardly being used or considered should be.
<end of long feedback post...this time>
Another thing I'd like to see looked up to is split the sky, I like all the aspects of the skills, except it's low damage, I don't know how it was on beta, so you guys tell me, I think that everyones agrees that it would be wonderful to have or it's damage turned back to how it was, or the snaring effect gets better.
Thx for all the responses ^^
It is the only ability that allows burst over 5k dmg even on a crit right now in pvp, and it has some utlility which is an extreme boon to HRs.
As it stands, if you take that away from the class you eliminate its current playstyle as a mobile, reaction based class that has an option to get into a fight close up (not without its risks) and actually do some damage. I do not believe this is a question of the power being too strong as it still is in line, or behind almost every other dps classes burst encounter. Even if you make another ability strong enough to do 7-9k burst as a replacement losing the utlity of fox shifts ranged buff for the group will still hurt. And it seems highly unlikely that the buff to thorn strike is going to boost it anywhere near what would be needed to replace FS.
I sincerely hope this is more thought out before completion. It's a bit disheartnening though, wespecially when I read that the dev team seems to think FS makes one untargetable (you can be CC'd out of the animation in many diff ways and it can be dodged as well, the power is not without its caveats).
As the other post in our class forums sadly suggests, I hope this in the the "R.I.P. Fox shift" nerf that it seems to be.
This pattern plays over and over in games. I have seen it many times. A new character is released. They make it overpowered to garner interest. This sells character slots. ranger packages ad for gear etc... after the initial flood of money comes in they start nerfing the class down to become undesirable, except by a few legolas diehards in preparation for the new op class they will release, sell packs for, and then nerf. Happens in every game.
Eventually they will return the Hunter/Ranger back like they did the gwf after they gutted it in the beginning of the game. I hate to be so cliché about conspiracy theories, but it just seems to all fit together so well, and follow such an easy to see pattern that I couldn't help myself.
The devs are well aware of how this is going to hurt the HR community.
Reading this hurts so much.
Somehow, I've never had any trouble topping the dps tables in PVE and causing massive mayhem in PVP without ever touching FS. At first I assumed it was glitched since it didn't match the description, so I avoided it exactly for that reason. It felt really cheap. Later on I found out it's apparently working as intended, but never felt need to get back to it. And I get along just fine. More than that.
This nerf is very welcome, FS is capable of outrageous burst damage to single targets. Good rangers will still perform well when it gets reworked, with or without it. And as for the bad ones losing their favorite imbalanced nuke that their whole tactics is based on? Actually learn the class or leave it, up to you.
Props to devs.
When I you write things like this it makes you seem really uninformed and I highly doubt you tear it up because unless you are only sniping from atop some where. SW paragon has some limited skills and the rest are mediocre. Even aimed shot can barely top 5k on many GWF's if you are lucky and if some dust crosses your path AS will get interrupted.
I have a nature spec'd HR and the only thing he tears up if I dont equip FS is some flowers as I meditate. The buffs dont even feel like they compensate and with healing depression he is pretty gimp. There is an obvious discrepancy in how the powers scale, and alot of the rest are either utility or sub par. So please dont assume that you are so amazing and that other HR's should 'learn the class or leave'
Doof
Split Shot: The damage of this power has been reduced by 45%.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635201-Official-Feedback-Thread-Ranger-Paragon-Path-Pathfinder
*facepalms himself* Are you serious..? really?
Well there goes HR's AOE damage ability now..
I actually thought it would be TR then HR nerfs, but looks like both are going to happen in the not so distant future anyway. I disagree about CW coming after that though. I think after HR + TR get done with everything will settle down unless GWF gets another small nerf, but as long as these coming class changes are implemented properly I think things will settle down significantly in the nerf department.
What exactly did you expect? They took one of the worst classes in the game and made it worse. There won't be a whole lot of positive responses.
Tack on the coming GWF changes and soon we'll be seeing 4x and 5x CW parties. Everyone else will be told that they're useless and bring nothing that a CW can't do better. Not that HRs aren't already used to that.
Oh right, this game has PvE. I guess that could be a cause for a cycle to start again as well if not properly dealt with, but I suppose once you throw that in after TR/HR reworking I would think things would settle still.
This is my 2nd post on forums or so , because i somehow managed to enjoy the game itself
and didnt gone to forums to whine or ask or whatever, even though i was wondering how GWFs stay so overpowered for such a long time and GFs stay underpowered for even longer, and the only things that are being reviewed are other classes/nerfs.
I myself have a character of each class at 13k GS +
almost 16k PVP HR and 15k PVE HR which i dont use because i have 14K CW which is much more welcome in groups for dungeons.
So Ok lets assume the HR nerfs took their place , and look into PVE and PVP
PVE: (lets first assume that you were taken into a dungeon over a CW first which is rare)
your best encounters for PVE for doing damage (because you cant provide CC) are hindering shot (melee version for which you need to gather mobs) rain of arrows (which is so little aoe range that it mostly hits only 1 mob IF he doesnt move) , and thorn ward, now your atwills that you can use are - split shot and ...... yes only split shot since rapid shot is single target , and aim shot gets interrupted by pretty much anything.
after doing this in many dungeons i could never outdps good CWs, or good GWFs (my gs is 16k with p vorpal if any1 wonders)
so HR being a dps class cant OUTDPS CWs, AND have no CC.
with that being said , if I would gather a party for a dungeon id take CW or GWF or even TR over HR
PVP: Fights take place on a Point (unless you are ranged HR but thats a whole another story), use fox and it procs only twice (because there are RARE i mean VERY RARE occasions where there will be 3 people on the node standing near) so 3rd jump on fox pretty much will never proc, not to talk about those 1v1s , which will MOSTLY be the case that you proc only 1 hit of Fox on enemy, so your thorn strike which deals more damage as enemy gets lower is useless simply because you CANT get your enemy low as there are no encounters that actually do damage , so all you have to do is at wills which again are weaker then at wills of other classes.
lets say its a TR , you cant go face fight him because you will get flurry which outdamages everything u have by 50% with those bleeds and bile ticks.
Lets say its a GWF , then you have time window to at will him in between his prone chains (incase u are still alive after those)
Lets say its a CW, u cant even get close to him unless you use marauders rush, which will get dodged by good CW, now you need to follow it up with some attacks, which you simply dont have so you need to use at wills, and then youll get controlled and will not be able to go near a good CW again, so wait for your marauders rush cd again.
HRs main PVE ability is split shot which got nerfed, for whatever reason , get close to HR in pvp and he is not able to use in anymore anyways
HRs main PVP ability is fox, got nerfed.
Need to point out that there are many absolutely useless long cooldown abilies , like hawk shot
All classes have main Nuke dps ability:
TRs have Shocking execution daily, and good at wills,
CWs have encounters ,control spells with 7s CD ,and Ice knife daily
GWFs have the whole arsenal of encounters which deal alot of damage and CC , and dailies which do CC and damage
so HRs need to have burst damage ability because after all HRs are dps class, and the only thing they had was Fox ,
and actually it requires alot of skill to land a fox properly without it being dodged or interrupted.
Suggestion: maybe make fox encounter charge consuming, like hindering shot, but auto activation, like if there is only 1 person it consumes only 1 charge with internal cooldown of 1s between charges, and if there is 3 of them then it consumes 3 charges, like healing word, just need a proper cooldown allocation, maybe 6s per charge