Funny thing is as a CW, TRs manage to screw me in PVP and PVE.
In PVP, they regularly kill me without me being able to damage them at all.
In PVE, if I join a group with a TR in it, it inevitably goes very rough and people die, because thanks to TRs defending the numerous unfair advantages they have in PVP and insisting they keep the worst of them, TR's PVE has been nerfed to hell.
And since CW's can ignore a part of tenacity with their controll skills, I don't see why a daily power shouldn't ignore it too.
This is hilarious because:
A. Whatever amount CWs do ignore of tenacity is not noticable. Prones from other classes last the same duration. Stun from chill strike is so short it's not even worth using.
I don't even know why they put that in the patch notes except to try to make CWs feel better.
B. Saying a TR skill is balanced because of something a CW has is hilarious, as if there is any balance at all between the classes. TR has about 5 unfair advantages over CW in PVP.
If I wanted to get an advantage I would use Courage Breaker. I use SE to end a fight. Period.
Wait, so a skill that one-shots people isn't that great because it doesn't have unavoidable CC as well? LOL, it's just amazing how warped TR's thinking is at this point.
^ youre lucky youre using a gwf with high hp, for other classes with low HP like 30k below.... TRs can just 1 shot them with shocking execution.... insane... plz nerf/fix/NERF
^ youre lucky youre using a gwf with high hp, for other classes with low HP like 30k below.... TRs can just 1 shot them with shocking execution.... insane... plz nerf/fix/NERF
Buy PVP gear... 15-18k is max that I see in game on me HR here with 26-28k HP. GWF can do the same dmg with his skill, CW too, HR with Aimed shot too, GF can chain combo for near the same or more .... Where is the problem ? All classes except DC can get your half HP so ? Learn to play ? Or ?
Weird I have never and I mean never been one shotted or been hit anywhere near 18K by a GWF, CW, HR etc maybe before patch but no ways now, the only thing that hits that hard or harder is TR, I have been hit by 40K shocking from almost full HP more than once, seen it 3 times, not every build can achieve this, only a very small portion of TR's can, but i have seen it, oh yeah and that is with 20.5% tenacity .
first of all saying a perma doesnt normally do high damage is wrong.... they can do a lot of damage, which i assume is why people cry about them...
all they need to do is tone done bilethorn, make it so if you attack at all you come out of stealth(perma's are ruining the TR class).... SE is not op'd, there are so many times me as a glass cannon TR hit for less than 8k, and now with tenacity my highest crit is 21k... Our cw's are hitting 30-49k ice knifes on people with full tenacity gear, and that daily is up far more often then SE. if for some reason i dont dodge IK, it will proc my soulforge, but i guess everyone is okay with that.
gf can prone you non stop (which was supposed to be fixed) but everyone is okay with that as well.
Ya see there is something every class has that is op'd to other classes, cry about one, then people will always counter with how other classes do something just as op'd.
my personal opinion they should have went forward with the stealth nerf a few patches back, as most people are only complaining about SE from a perma TR... i am mostly out in the open, and SE is for me my one and only good power to use to even have a chance
Buy PVP gear... 15-18k is max that I see in game on me HR here with 26-28k HP. GWF can do the same dmg with his skill, CW too, HR with Aimed shot too, GF can chain combo for near the same or more .... Where is the problem ? All classes except DC can get your half HP so ? Learn to play ? Or ?
did you even take the time to read, the topic is shocking execution ignoring tenacity. 20% tenacity here and TR with bile (take note its not vorpal) shocking execution crit me for more than 30k+ from 80% HP. absurd. and whats with your "All classes except DC can get your half HP so ?" rofl we were talking about 1 single skill doing it and youre way out of the context. L2English
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
I think we should stop trying to get the poor tr's hit even more with the nerf bat really. I mean I play a hr, and don't get me wrong, I hate tr's, the buggers irritate the hell outta me, I'd rather fight any other class one on one, but even so, they've been bashed a lot recently. We all love our big guns, imagine if yours got nerfed, how'd you feel..?
I'm not real sure if what i'm about to say is going to be inflammatory, but as far as I am concerned the TR class needs to be reworked totally. No one want to play in pvp against a class (and getting worse as more people are starting to jump on the perma stealth band wagon) that you CANNOT target. I don't care that a rogue can one shot you in pvp, the whole point of a back stab is that you will probably die if you get caught by it, however it shouldn't be something you can do every 5 - 10 seconds. The perma stealth needs to go. Rogues are single target nukers, i'm ok with that, but that stealth business is getting way out of hand. I'd much rather see them doing a ton of damage than not be targetable at all. If they need to nerf something put a stop to endless stealth practices. The stealth ability probably should be more along the lines of DR for as long as the stealth meter lasts, not total invisibility (starting to think that shouldn't even work that way in pve either).
IF you think about it, rogues should actually be more of a control class the way Neverwinter mechanics work. Rogues should be using smoke screen/bombs, grease floors, traps etc to control the battle field and then natuaally their brutal back stab abilities, they get behind you and you are one step away from the grave. But rebalancing and re-imagining a class totally is not even remotely visible so the most anyone can hope for is that stealth gets reworked so that it depletes faster or that perma stealth cannot be created.
So again I move to NOT nerf damage, nerf that invisible BS they can pull and make them more durable or see about changing stealth into a DR mechanic instead of an "oh i am invisible and can still attack you and you can't attack me, and i can solo 4 people at once because of it" type of mechanic.
Funny topic all around. Obvious bug, still people that profit anxiously defend the ability. Also the range of observed damage is so huge that I think most (pug) TRs don't know how to utilize the skill to its full potential.
~50k crits on PVP Sentis from full health is all you need to know. Enjoy while it lasts.
Our cw's are hitting 30-49k ice knifes on people with full tenacity gear, and that daily is up far more often then SE. if for some reason i dont dodge IK, it will proc my soulforge, but i guess everyone is okay with that.
50k one-shotting ice knifes on pvp gear? That's BS. Stop making stuff up.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
50k one-shotting ice knifes on pvp gear? That's BS. Stop making stuff up.
+1 LOL
That's as much BS as one could ever make heh. Even before Tenacity was introduced, I don't think I've hit more than 1-2 40K IKs, with HV and all kind of debuffs on newbies. After Tenacity my best hit is 22K or so on no Tenacity no gear squish CW.
Their single target dps is high enough (in pvp). And to my OP: Yes I had ~80% hp, definitively more than 50%.
Hahaha yes high enough, with 4k arp, power and p.vorpal i crit ppl with my encounters for 2-3k. Also SE always did huge damage its just all TRs are using it whenever they can now cuz its only skill that can actually kill people lol.
PS:Whod have tought PoB is gonna be tr most viable damage skill (it cant even crit lol)... what a joke...
Is everyone ignoring the fact perhaps the best pvp TR in the entire game recorded a 217k shocking execution and is asking for it to be nerfed a bit? :P
The impact shot nerf was uncalled for. They need to roll that stupidity back.
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unbahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 25Arc User
In all the cases you mention, it generally requires setting up some combination first. Like the GWF needs to prone you before hitting with IBS, otherwise it's very easy to avoid. The CW will generally prepare the target with RoE, HV stacks, chill stacks or something and may try to time it for EotS. HR with Aimed Shot is easy to interrupt. And GFs basically expend all their encounters + their daily for a strong chain.
Meanwhile, TRs can apparently hit you for massive damage out of nowhere. And there's still no dodge against it, unlike all the other powers you mention. It can be blocked by a GF, but that's all there is.
Meanwhile, TR's have no strong chain. They used to have either stealth or spike. Spike is long gone, and everyone calls for stealth nerf. Give TR's perma prone/stun/daze chain which in addition reduces a target form 100 to nearly 0 and you can nerf stealth and SE all you want.
Oh, and mabye the best TR managed to crit for 200k+, but that doesn't mean everyone can do that.
Fast forward one week: The Build Masters build a new TR that continues to decimate people in PVP. Time to start another thread!
:end sarcasm:
Shocking Execution, if its broken, then it needs fixed. BUT, at the same time they fix that, fix everything else wrong with all the other classes as well. What I'm saying is do it all at once. This 'hunt and peck' method that they are doing in an effort to bring balance to the game isn't working. They fix two things and in return create a hundred more problems.
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Branch Lead
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Meanwhile, TR's have no strong chain. They used to have either stealth or spike. Spike is long gone, and everyone calls for stealth nerf. Give TR's perma prone/stun/daze chain which in addition reduces a target form 100 to nearly 0 and you can nerf stealth and SE all you want.
Oh, and mabye the best TR managed to crit for 200k+, but that doesn't mean everyone can do that.
Imo they dont really need strong chains. An opener out of stealth is strong by itself: they usually sit in stealth waiting for someone on low hp to finish him off. This is rogue playstile, annoying but legit. Sorry for off-topic.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Is everyone ignoring the fact perhaps the best pvp TR in the entire game recorded a 217k shocking execution and is asking for it to be nerfed a bit? :P
The impact shot nerf was uncalled for. They need to roll that stupidity back.
dude that was a "staged" fight,, that didnt happen in a normal pvp match.. .they purposefully buffed the TR , and debuffed the victim to see how high of a SE he could get.... that doesnt happen in normal matches... people arent going to stand by and watch as they set this up...
you cant use this as a solid example of it being op'd at all
and i am telling you my husband crit for 49k in pvp with his IK, and they routinely are in the 30's with it.... that is far more op'd than a SE
dude that was a "staged" fight,, that didnt happen in a normal pvp match.. .they purposefully buffed the TR , and debuffed the victim to see how high of a SE he could get.... that doesnt happen in normal matches... people arent going to stand by and watch as they set this up...
you cant use this as a solid example of it being op'd at all
and i am telling you my husband crit for 49k in pvp with his IK, and they routinely are in the 30's with it.... that is far more op'd than a SE
gl getting people to believe that when they keep telling me ice knife hits 7k max and 15k is an impossibility on anyone with 30% resist and 15-20% from tenacity.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
and i am telling you my husband crit for 49k in pvp with his IK, and they routinely are in the 30's with it.... that is far more op'd than a SE
I think this statement alone shows that your arguments can not be taken seriously.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Ice Knife and Shocking Execution shouldn't be directly compared, at least not without full disclosure that IK is easy to mitigate or to dodge completely. The timing isn't exactly tricky. Even if it hits, it doesn't do much of anything without debuffs and a crit unless we're talking about players who are undergeared AND lack appreciable Tenacity.
I'm not huge on nerfing powers, though. If anything I would like SE to have a measurable dodge window and not to penetrate damage immunity like that granted by Divine Exaltation or Stealthed ITC. It needs to penetrate damage resistance just to serve its function, but I'll admit that it feels like an utter cheese tactic when it an otherwise unskilled TR gets to lurk around team fights and wait for HP to drop for a guaranteed kill.
dude that was a "staged" fight,, that didnt happen in a normal pvp match.. .they purposefully buffed the TR , and debuffed the victim to see how high of a SE he could get.... that doesnt happen in normal matches... people arent going to stand by and watch as they set this up...
you cant use this as a solid example of it being op'd at all
and i am telling you my husband crit for 49k in pvp with his IK, and they routinely are in the 30's with it.... that is far more op'd than a SE
Yet there are plenty of videos of 47k shockings on non-staged fights against opponents at 50%. Without a p.vorpal too. What's weird about these spikes is their inconsistency. I've seen 3k shockings done on me at 100%, yet 35k done on me at 100%. There's just something wrong. Is it a huge deal? No, not really. You're not gonna use it unless you know it's gonna proc your opponent's soulforged anyways, but 50% is a bit too high of a margin to be able to shocking someone to death. 15% non-crit, 30-35% crit would be fine. Anything above 40% and it gets kinda cheesy. 50% and above is just plain stupid. Go look around on the TR twitch channels for a bit, or the youtube videos, there's plenty of material out there demonstrating how shocking is acting pretty weird right now.
That being said, if they nerf shocking they need to roll back their nerf on impact shot or something else. I don't want to see TR nerfed to non-playability. I want to see TR working like a TR should.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
and i am telling you my husband crit for 49k in pvp with his IK, and they routinely are in the 30's with it.... that is far more op'd than a SE
I didn't even hit low gear pugs with IK for that much pre tenacity. My highest PvP IK pre tenacity was 41k and back then I was rolling a full HV, p vorpal 15.5k CW. I find it unlikely that your husband hit a 49k IK post tenacity on players that have any gear at all and aren't debuffed up the whazoo.
SE is OP as a skill. But rogues aren't as a class. Nerfing SE to make it dodge-able would be reasonable. Increasing TR action point gain would be a good offset to this nerf.
You can dodge ice knife, and the tick tick gives it away. Nothing should hit as hard as SE and not miss.
I threw 3 knives tonight, at a geared hunter, and then SE'd him to death from 20+ meters, all from stealth. It's just not fair. Either nerf it's damage or give it a chance to miss.
Comments
In PVP, they regularly kill me without me being able to damage them at all.
In PVE, if I join a group with a TR in it, it inevitably goes very rough and people die, because thanks to TRs defending the numerous unfair advantages they have in PVP and insisting they keep the worst of them, TR's PVE has been nerfed to hell.
All I see is permas in PVP anyway so what difference would that make?
This is hilarious because:
A. Whatever amount CWs do ignore of tenacity is not noticable. Prones from other classes last the same duration. Stun from chill strike is so short it's not even worth using.
I don't even know why they put that in the patch notes except to try to make CWs feel better.
B. Saying a TR skill is balanced because of something a CW has is hilarious, as if there is any balance at all between the classes. TR has about 5 unfair advantages over CW in PVP.
Wait, so a skill that one-shots people isn't that great because it doesn't have unavoidable CC as well? LOL, it's just amazing how warped TR's thinking is at this point.
Buy PVP gear... 15-18k is max that I see in game on me HR here with 26-28k HP. GWF can do the same dmg with his skill, CW too, HR with Aimed shot too, GF can chain combo for near the same or more .... Where is the problem ? All classes except DC can get your half HP so ? Learn to play ? Or ?
all they need to do is tone done bilethorn, make it so if you attack at all you come out of stealth(perma's are ruining the TR class).... SE is not op'd, there are so many times me as a glass cannon TR hit for less than 8k, and now with tenacity my highest crit is 21k... Our cw's are hitting 30-49k ice knifes on people with full tenacity gear, and that daily is up far more often then SE. if for some reason i dont dodge IK, it will proc my soulforge, but i guess everyone is okay with that.
gf can prone you non stop (which was supposed to be fixed) but everyone is okay with that as well.
Ya see there is something every class has that is op'd to other classes, cry about one, then people will always counter with how other classes do something just as op'd.
my personal opinion they should have went forward with the stealth nerf a few patches back, as most people are only complaining about SE from a perma TR... i am mostly out in the open, and SE is for me my one and only good power to use to even have a chance
did you even take the time to read, the topic is shocking execution ignoring tenacity. 20% tenacity here and TR with bile (take note its not vorpal) shocking execution crit me for more than 30k+ from 80% HP. absurd. and whats with your "All classes except DC can get your half HP so ?" rofl we were talking about 1 single skill doing it and youre way out of the context. L2English
I'm not real sure if what i'm about to say is going to be inflammatory, but as far as I am concerned the TR class needs to be reworked totally. No one want to play in pvp against a class (and getting worse as more people are starting to jump on the perma stealth band wagon) that you CANNOT target. I don't care that a rogue can one shot you in pvp, the whole point of a back stab is that you will probably die if you get caught by it, however it shouldn't be something you can do every 5 - 10 seconds. The perma stealth needs to go. Rogues are single target nukers, i'm ok with that, but that stealth business is getting way out of hand. I'd much rather see them doing a ton of damage than not be targetable at all. If they need to nerf something put a stop to endless stealth practices. The stealth ability probably should be more along the lines of DR for as long as the stealth meter lasts, not total invisibility (starting to think that shouldn't even work that way in pve either).
IF you think about it, rogues should actually be more of a control class the way Neverwinter mechanics work. Rogues should be using smoke screen/bombs, grease floors, traps etc to control the battle field and then natuaally their brutal back stab abilities, they get behind you and you are one step away from the grave. But rebalancing and re-imagining a class totally is not even remotely visible so the most anyone can hope for is that stealth gets reworked so that it depletes faster or that perma stealth cannot be created.
So again I move to NOT nerf damage, nerf that invisible BS they can pull and make them more durable or see about changing stealth into a DR mechanic instead of an "oh i am invisible and can still attack you and you can't attack me, and i can solo 4 people at once because of it" type of mechanic.
~50k crits on PVP Sentis from full health is all you need to know. Enjoy while it lasts.
50k one-shotting ice knifes on pvp gear? That's BS. Stop making stuff up.
+1 LOL
That's as much BS as one could ever make heh. Even before Tenacity was introduced, I don't think I've hit more than 1-2 40K IKs, with HV and all kind of debuffs on newbies. After Tenacity my best hit is 22K or so on no Tenacity no gear squish CW.
Hahaha yes high enough, with 4k arp, power and p.vorpal i crit ppl with my encounters for 2-3k. Also SE always did huge damage its just all TRs are using it whenever they can now cuz its only skill that can actually kill people lol.
PS:Whod have tought PoB is gonna be tr most viable damage skill (it cant even crit lol)... what a joke...
The impact shot nerf was uncalled for. They need to roll that stupidity back.
Meanwhile, TR's have no strong chain. They used to have either stealth or spike. Spike is long gone, and everyone calls for stealth nerf. Give TR's perma prone/stun/daze chain which in addition reduces a target form 100 to nearly 0 and you can nerf stealth and SE all you want.
Oh, and mabye the best TR managed to crit for 200k+, but that doesn't mean everyone can do that.
Fast forward one week: The Build Masters build a new TR that continues to decimate people in PVP. Time to start another thread!
:end sarcasm:
Shocking Execution, if its broken, then it needs fixed. BUT, at the same time they fix that, fix everything else wrong with all the other classes as well. What I'm saying is do it all at once. This 'hunt and peck' method that they are doing in an effort to bring balance to the game isn't working. They fix two things and in return create a hundred more problems.
Branch Lead
Imo they dont really need strong chains. An opener out of stealth is strong by itself: they usually sit in stealth waiting for someone on low hp to finish him off. This is rogue playstile, annoying but legit. Sorry for off-topic.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
dude that was a "staged" fight,, that didnt happen in a normal pvp match.. .they purposefully buffed the TR , and debuffed the victim to see how high of a SE he could get.... that doesnt happen in normal matches... people arent going to stand by and watch as they set this up...
you cant use this as a solid example of it being op'd at all
and i am telling you my husband crit for 49k in pvp with his IK, and they routinely are in the 30's with it.... that is far more op'd than a SE
gl getting people to believe that when they keep telling me ice knife hits 7k max and 15k is an impossibility on anyone with 30% resist and 15-20% from tenacity.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I'm not huge on nerfing powers, though. If anything I would like SE to have a measurable dodge window and not to penetrate damage immunity like that granted by Divine Exaltation or Stealthed ITC. It needs to penetrate damage resistance just to serve its function, but I'll admit that it feels like an utter cheese tactic when it an otherwise unskilled TR gets to lurk around team fights and wait for HP to drop for a guaranteed kill.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Yet there are plenty of videos of 47k shockings on non-staged fights against opponents at 50%. Without a p.vorpal too. What's weird about these spikes is their inconsistency. I've seen 3k shockings done on me at 100%, yet 35k done on me at 100%. There's just something wrong. Is it a huge deal? No, not really. You're not gonna use it unless you know it's gonna proc your opponent's soulforged anyways, but 50% is a bit too high of a margin to be able to shocking someone to death. 15% non-crit, 30-35% crit would be fine. Anything above 40% and it gets kinda cheesy. 50% and above is just plain stupid. Go look around on the TR twitch channels for a bit, or the youtube videos, there's plenty of material out there demonstrating how shocking is acting pretty weird right now.
That being said, if they nerf shocking they need to roll back their nerf on impact shot or something else. I don't want to see TR nerfed to non-playability. I want to see TR working like a TR should.
I didn't even hit low gear pugs with IK for that much pre tenacity. My highest PvP IK pre tenacity was 41k and back then I was rolling a full HV, p vorpal 15.5k CW. I find it unlikely that your husband hit a 49k IK post tenacity on players that have any gear at all and aren't debuffed up the whazoo.
Ps: Im a pvp rogue
I threw 3 knives tonight, at a geared hunter, and then SE'd him to death from 20+ meters, all from stealth. It's just not fair. Either nerf it's damage or give it a chance to miss.