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PVP Time Penalty is not enough
pshylockex
Member Posts: 4 Arc User
Greetings,
I just wanted to say that is not enough to ban players who leave PP with 30min of no queue.
What people is now doing is:
- "if I have to quit game soon, I queue PVP and leech it, no penalty for me"
- "if I have to quit game soon, I queue PVP and if it's good I stay, if not I leave, no penalty for me"
What is needed is A GLORY PENALTY. Every time a player is ban from PVP for 30min, take as well a big amount of glory from him!!!
What do you think about this?
Sorry for my english, thanks for reading!!!
I just wanted to say that is not enough to ban players who leave PP with 30min of no queue.
What people is now doing is:
- "if I have to quit game soon, I queue PVP and leech it, no penalty for me"
- "if I have to quit game soon, I queue PVP and if it's good I stay, if not I leave, no penalty for me"
What is needed is A GLORY PENALTY. Every time a player is ban from PVP for 30min, take as well a big amount of glory from him!!!
What do you think about this?
Sorry for my english, thanks for reading!!!
Post edited by pshylockex on
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Comments
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
one way could be to give the benefit of the doubt and once you've had a high percentage amount of disconnects, you are pvp banned for 24 hours. each time you are pvp banned for disconnects, the ban time increases by 24 hours (yes, i did read about this on another gaming site). the idea here is that if you have a flaky internet connection, you shouldn't have an issue with getting banned because the threshold for the pvp ban would be higher than what you might experience with a bad internet connection.
another idea for the current pvp system is to end a match after 3-5 minutes if two or more people quit the match. grant enough time so that if there was a legitimate disconnect, that a user can rejoin and not be penalized.
instead of glory penalties, make the 30 minute time penalties persist through log outs.
Errrrrm... it already does.
I guess I'm just of the thought that no matter how harsh you make a punishment, there's always going to be a segment of people who will try to exploit their way around it and eventually succeed because that's precisely what those kind of people do.
Meanwhile, the guy who suddenly had to go tend to the baby that he thought was sound asleep when he queued up is facing even harsher penalties than before.
You need to balance making things difficult for exploiters without being overly punitive towards the interventions of real life.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
So ideally, you're a first time offender, you get a warning notice, but no penalty. Second time in match you queue within 5 min of the previous match you were a first time offender, you get the 30 min penalty. Third time offender in a match you queue within 5 min after your penalty, you get the penalty x 2. Fourth time offender in a match you queue within 5 min after a penalty, you banned from the queue for the rest of the day.
The next day, first time offender after being banned the previous day, you get penalty. first time offender with only a first time offender the previous day gets another warning notice.
The existing leaver penalty is working in the sense that I've seen a huge reduction in the number of players leaving early in a match. I've never been in a match with less than 4 v 5 since the patch and only been in 2 matches that got to that point.
The suggestion I'm making is to help minimize the amount of time "problem" players affect other players. To change player behavior is extremely hard to do because what it really boils down to is what makes a game "enjoyable" to someone. You have to factor in the those people who enjoy causing trouble for others. They enjoy gaming the system simply to make other people angry.
For me, I sit down by the fire and grab a cup of coffee. Why bother drawing out a match that at most your going to get 150 glory.
There's no reason for it. A 10 minute match will go for 20 or 30 minutes with the same result. I'm a "rip the band aid off" person, not lolly gag and slow peel it and cry. If they need experience then match them with like class and gear players to get it or allow 1 v 1 pvp.
For that. I wuold say should have an option similar to vote kick. that lets the entire team vote to submit defeat only after a combined total amoutn of time and gap in score is made.
If someone do not want to play and wanna leave when you put penalty on him you will just force him to stay at campfire - so in this direction is better this man to leave and someone other to replace him.
Other is hating on egoist ppl that think so sick.
* "lets kick player E, he had a bad strategy and did not contribute to our win, and he went for the home node at the start, and he simply annoys me"
* "lets kick player E, he bested me last time in PvP"
Looking at the griefing being done already in PvE vote kicks I wonder where this road will lead.
If you are a frood who knows where his towel is then you are going to play with friends anyway. Then you do not suffer from the described problem.
There is a legitimate FUNCTION in the game, I assume on purpose.
If I right-click my portrait I get the non-spam, non-exploit option to "leave party".
Ask yourself:
Why did the developers put something that you don't want players to use there in the first place?
Penalties won't work. And using a function in a game that is there for a reason must not result in a penalty. Penalties are there for exploiters.
I suggest:
Adjust the rewards for PvP in a way that it is a bit more attractive to PvE than to PvP.
e.g. Grim Coins:
1 coin=50 glory, if you are good you can get in 4 runs in Fardelver Crypt, netting you ~20 coins or 1000 glory in 40 minutes.
whereas if you are lucky in PvP and you roflstomp your opponents or they just afk or quit you get 1000 glory within 5 minutes.
And while you are at it, introduce leaver penalties for dungeons, too. Why not?
<sarcasm>
Maybe a log off penalty would be interesting for some of you?
</sarcasm>
There is absolutely NO reason to "leave party" if it were not intended to do so. Introducing penalties is a bad idea.
EDIT: The number of leavers is so low, that I can really belive that it's disconnect issues or real life events that force them to quit.
That isnt exactly fair, that would put other people in an otherwise losing match. What would be the point in that when they are put into a match that they have really no chance in turning the tide in so late in normal circumstances.
will just keep cycling people out of a losing match, as few people will stay when just being thrown in suddenly in a losing match.
Wont solve anything at all but just make it worse.
The penalty crowd got their coockie.
Now <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> separate premade queue and pug queue, and improve matchmaking before doing ANYTHING else.
You surrender: no Glory, no gain.
If 3 players of a team surrender the game is over. No Glory for the losers, 1/2 glory for each point for the winners (=up to 500)
As we all know that PvP players are legit player they won't abuse the system to their advantage.
Bots won't be able to win to farm automatic glory, at least I hope so.
Where would there be a problem?
As I see you are new in MMO world - welcome.
Now I can inform you that the system can be made with warning message that you will join in PVP has already begun - simple ?
Sounds good to me. But would not solve the problem of premades farming glory against pugs.
Premades should have their own queue to challenge each Others.
Pug queue for ranking and glory should be reserved for players who are NOT in a Group. Period.
I would expect them to have enough glory and rAD anyway.
-I don't care if I'm in a PUG full of 7k GS people getting destroyed by a premade group as long as the glory rewards for my perseverance and continued will to fight is rewarded appropriately.
-I don't care if someone on my team disconnects or leaves, I'll STAY even if it's 3v5 as long as the glory reward at the end is worth it.
There are solutions that can be applied, like: faster cap times or PvP buffs for outnumbered teams (3v5, 4v5, etc) to help keep them in the game but those, and the leaver penalty are all just band-aid solutions. Instead of penalizing leavers, give them a reason to stay and fight.
^This. Reward people for effort and they will stay. Give them nothing and they will leave.
Again, I'm going to share my idea of how to alleviate these issues.
Someone quits and you end up 4-5 or 3-5, you still get rewarded based on your participation, so while getting stomped is the likely outcome of the match, you still earn a fair bit of Glory based on what you did during the match. Quite honestly, I think it would fix most of the complaining, leaving, camping and people who run and hide in the match and do nothing. Even people who are new to PvP can feel like they are accomplishing something by trying things out and learning without feeling that their effort was futile when faced with minimal gains at the end of the match.
your example is completely horrible. people leave dungeon groups all the time due to the fact that the group simply isn't going to win. i certainly don't want to attempt karrundax without 2 wizards and spider.......the loss rate on that is absurdly high and is truly a waste of kits.
some groups are too low geared or too inexperienced to even get past 1st boss, and it makes me wonder how they failed since we won the moment i joined. what everyone forgets about dungeons is that we failed and/or possibly had to wait 4+ hours to reach the end sometimes while we were still gearing up.
also, whats the point of actually fighting in pvp if u can't kill a single person. I had 1 of those match-ups recently where my team simply put couldn't kill 1 person and would basically be jumping down from spawn to just die. if that's the case, it would be the same as not fighting anyways since nothing actually changed. glory is the same (if any) and 1 side has 0% chance of doing anything worthwhile in those kinds of matches.
matchmaking/elo is not gonna fix everything as there is still somehow people with 6k gs being grouped with me at 13k gs and is probably the reason y my group can't win sometimes. no amount of effort will change that as I can't carry the entire team to victory.
although, i do like how some gwf's get cocky and somehow jump into spawn so i can kill them. never saw another class do it, but it still is funny that they can decimate some teams like that.
also, did u know that d/c's technically still count as part of the group and will still show as 5 vs 5 even though it isn't? so even though the other team may not realize it, it is actually a 4 vs 5 situation already.
You have to understand player motivations from multiple perspectives, not just your own, in order to completely understand the problem and come up with possible solutions. Some people play PvP because they like PvP, some for the daily AD, some for Glory. For the people playing for the daily rewards/glory only, hoping for a non self-serving attitude is a bit too much. Their entire reason for playing PvP is self-serving. If PvP is not fun for them, and they can get the same reward by camping or hiding out, that's what they are going to do.
You can't change their reason for hoping into a match nearly as easy as you can manipulate how the mouse gets the cheese.
Positive reinforcement, basing their reward on their activity level, gets them their reward, and gets them interested to actively participate in an effort to maximize their reward from the match. It encourages all the behaviors we want, rewards the effort and ends up with everyone in a better position. Not to mention, it's a great way to get people used to PvP. Some people might be intimidated by PvP, and it won't take many ROFLSTOMP matches to confirm their dislike and drive them to those behaviors we find distasteful. Why should we expect anything less? If they get the same reward for camping/hiding as they do for fighting, but they don't enjoy the fight, and it just makes the match take longer, what is their motivation for participating in the match?
Again, if you reward them based on activity, remove any reward for simply being there and make sure the reward, even in losing, is enough to keep their interest, you have a winning solution on all counts. You've changed their behavior in a positive way, coaxing them to participate in the match, changing their attitude about PvP and hopefully won over more people to actively participate in PvP in general, not just for the reward.
face-tanking 5 people? that is not what i said......
what i said is that the entire team could not even kill 1 person from the enemy team. if your team can't even kill 1 person, how are u gonna capture nodes? sometimes i can kill people even in such teams, but it is truly pointless if there isn't even a shred of hope for even a somewhat decent match.
performing above the rest? doesn't it only count actual wins/losses and not individual score? and lol at "perfect score." i am not even a dps rogue so I am not so egotistical to think i should have the best score.
i know they get kicked in a few mins, but the damage is already done and 4 vs 5 is nearly guaranteed to be a loss. sometimes the group keeps trying but we all know its a loss and are only somewhat fighting since we can somewhat hold 1 node i guess or play cat n mouse all over the map by sneaking nodes everywhere but the actual fight is generally over in a 4 vs 5. groups that actually win a 4 vs 5 are simply better than the 5 and would never happen if they were perfectly balanced. i suppose 2 perma-rogues could still make the group win anyways since it takes like an entire group to force 1 off the node.
but i guess u really don't care if the enemy team can even fight back. for someone like u, them jumping down and letting u kill them without them even attempting to hit u would be enough for u to get your enjoyment out of this. if so, in such bad matches we can just hold the w key down and let u have your fun til the match ends i guess.
Having a hissy-fit about it solves nothing.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
One - You need a minimum score to even get rewarded, you need to do something to get a reward.
Two - You can't complain about people quitting, then say that people are allowed to quit due to them not being able to beat a boss. You have a 7k GS, vs a 19k GS. Why bother, you will lose.
Three - You should be allowed to "PUG" for anything you want, hence the point of having a MM system, if it doesn't work properly it needs to be fixed, not ignored. Ignoring an issue doesn't make it go away, if it did, then why are you complaining about PvP leavers?
Yes, he agreed to play a (at least) semi even game, not 4v5, and not 6k GS vs 19k GS. Guess what, sometimes people have legit reasons to quit, maybe you should learn that concept.
Again, who said he didn't try, or that others don't try, to win most games? You can not win an unbalanced match, you can not try to steal nodes when you are being base camped. Seriously, do you even think of situations at all?
Childish attitude? This is coming from the guy trying to force everyone to play, even when they don't want to, just so you can have a better experience for yourself? Hell, you even posted a link basically saying "if you don't like how i think, go play pac man ****". That isn't childish or immature to you?
Congratulations, he came back, which happens all the time right? No it doesn't.
If someones power goes out, they d/c, you won't get them back.
If somebody rage quits, you won't get them back.
Again, learn to think about other situations other than your (very) narrow view.
See, i can ignore your entire arguement too. If you're going to reply to someone, actually reply to what they say or do not bother. All you are doing as you rant on more and more is make yourself look like a complete *******.
Of course it is at times! Why stay for a completely lob-sided game? Serious why? Who is it fun for? Do you enjoy "pwning noobs", is that fun for you? Is it fun to win a 2v5 match?
And believe it or not, some people have this thing called A LIFE. Things do come up in peoples lives that...OMG, REMOVES THEM FROM THE GAME!!! How insane is that idea!!!
Or would you prefer i kept gaming if a friend died? Or should i pass up an interview opening so you can be happy? You are not the only person in the world, your needs are not the only ones that matter. Stop being self centered, and get a grip.