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PVP Improvement
dominisse
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 7 Arc User
When Cryptic/PWE entered the realm of disciplining social behavior by implementing the PVP Leaver Penalty, it had also claimed responsibility and leadership for the situation.
This leaver penalty has not fixed or addressed the reasons as to why players leave matches. A simple “/sit” command has defeated what Cryptic/PWE paid a development team to implement. Instead of leaving, those players who lose interest in playing with their team tend to go AFK.
People were leaving matches in Neverwinter because the notion had crossed the player’s mind that there is no consequence or risk for leaving. Nor is there a reward for enduring a team does not play well together.
A game mechanic will not “auto-magically” fix the human condition. We live and play in worlds in which no one fully agrees with each other. In virtual worlds the human condition is ever more so expressed in extremes due to anonymity and lack of permanent consequence.
Replace the Leaver Penalty with an evolution of the ignore list. Empower individual players with the ability to place others on a personal Blacklist. Blacklisted Players can chat with each other but will never be matched on same team during PVP.
Its a sandbox system, that removes responsibility from the developer and game of a critical social interaction between players. Ownership of the situation is given back to the players and individual. Let them decide who to play with it or risk being excluded.
This leaver penalty has not fixed or addressed the reasons as to why players leave matches. A simple “/sit” command has defeated what Cryptic/PWE paid a development team to implement. Instead of leaving, those players who lose interest in playing with their team tend to go AFK.
People were leaving matches in Neverwinter because the notion had crossed the player’s mind that there is no consequence or risk for leaving. Nor is there a reward for enduring a team does not play well together.
A game mechanic will not “auto-magically” fix the human condition. We live and play in worlds in which no one fully agrees with each other. In virtual worlds the human condition is ever more so expressed in extremes due to anonymity and lack of permanent consequence.
Replace the Leaver Penalty with an evolution of the ignore list. Empower individual players with the ability to place others on a personal Blacklist. Blacklisted Players can chat with each other but will never be matched on same team during PVP.
Its a sandbox system, that removes responsibility from the developer and game of a critical social interaction between players. Ownership of the situation is given back to the players and individual. Let them decide who to play with it or risk being excluded.
Post edited by dominisse on
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"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Sure, a more sophisticated system would be preferable, but this is a step in the right direction.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
To defeat teleporting or being kicked out of the match after 30 seconds of inactivity is simple as launching an alternate character on the second monitor while accepting the death on the first monitor. Which brings everyone else right back to waiting for the match to end. Since this is not a subscription based gamed with no limit on accounts one can have, it will happen.
There is no simple solution to the situation. Its a social interaction thing. Humans are dramatically complicated and the ability to deal with it should be given to the individuals that are affected.
Realistically, take it into consideration that you did not add everyone that has annoyed you on the ignore list. Perhaps ten out of thousands will be worthy of being placed on your Blacklist. The rest will probably will be far more willing to cooperate with their teams if doing so meant avoiding the risk of being excluded. The way to get really messed up and excluded is to put yourself in that situation.
What we have now is something that does not actually fix the reasons why there was a need for a consequence and forces everyone to wait around for the end of the match.
That PVP community is going to get bored of waiting and shrink, which is what happened in Warhammer Online.
I can't think of how many times I've played in this PvP that I consider to be a gross mismatch of abilities to gameplay needs for Devoted Cleric and ended with a result of being killed 17 or more times no kills for myself and some few "assists" as my reward.
Furthermore, this game then just heaps more advantage to the victors and the loser's gap widens. I have tried to play this Devoted Cleric role in PvP and have found I'm only there as an easy quick kill for the opponents and little else. Why would anyone want to play through that garbage?
I hate PvP in this game. Every other character type easily kills me off. I've had opponents with 10% of their hitpoints left take me down when I was at full hitpoints. That's garbage. No competition possible.
What you describe is an issue with disparity in gear and skill, not an issue with the class itself.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
No, you can blame skill whatever, but you do not know. I know. I have all lvl 2 Epic Gear. I've upgraded my Weapon and Armor enchantments to lvl 8. I've upgraded my Artifact of Power to lvl 60+. I've worked on all my enchantments having lvl 6 and 7 now and I am working the Epic Campaigns for Boons etc.
What I say stands. Underpowered in PvP. Only real value is as a Healer to team mates. Little defense to speak of. Easily killed and overpowered by all other class types.
It's simply a poor choice in PvP especially since the objective is to kill opponents in 1v1 or 2v1 or 3v1 etc. The Devoted Cleric is little more than an easy kill for opponents. All players tend to recognize this.
As a result of my numerous very bad experiences playing Neverwinter PvP, I had to reach a decision either dump the game even after paying money into it, or dump PvP. I'm now electing not to play PvP at all.
After putting so much time and effort into trying to build this character type I know from experience Devoted Cleric has no Offensive capacity and is killed easily by all other opponents. Devoted Cleric is not strong against any other character type.
Ramp up to the campfire? Can you say, "Spawn Camp"? You must have missed the first few months after Beta where people could jump into your spawn, wait for you to rez, and kill you immediately.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
No, but with an Elo system that works, and this one can work if it's given time, combined with a leaver penalty, would mean that people would rarely leave, and spawn afk/sitting wouldn't be possible as you could still be killed. People jumped into the spawns back then because they were bored of fighting afk glory farmers. (mostly)
edit*
It's a matter of what is the worse problem, spawn camping (not fun, but avoidable if you fight), or griefing matches thru leaving and afking. Leaver penalties for leaving, and allowing spawn camping to make afking feel less fun for the quitters.
They should gather every lead and decision maker at Cryptic to sit down and play PVP Domination in Neverwinter. Then have one side do a "/sit" till the match ends. Wash rinse and repeat until someone comes with a idea.
If someone were to miss this event or claim that they are "too busy" to attend, then it would be clear who doesn't have their heart in making this game awesome and is just collecting a paycheck.
But TBH what bugs me in pvp isn't people going AFK, it's people insinsting on doing silly "trade caps" (trade flags to get more glory). That's SILLY. And matches last longer for small gains. I wish the devs could just find a way to prevent that. Of course if you don't comply then the flow of insults begin...
No. Rank/ratings will simply deal with this over time.
The people who leave/afk are simply the worst kind of players out there. Previously, these are the ones who used to make all sorts of excuses as to weasle out of the game, justify their non-action/disruptive behavior, ask for rewards they do not deserve, etc etc..
OFcourse, sice the rating system is now applied, natural course of action will inevitably filter the earnest players from the worthless ones. As time goes by, such people will fall lower and lower down to the lowest pits of the ratings where their exact same kind roam around in hordes.
Just give it time.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
no on the lock out, losing is enough of a punish meant don't need the game taunting you about it. trade caps annoys me to.. if it's just me I refuse.
Terrible idea.
I somehow played my PvE-orientated GF well enough to start coming across premades from reputed guilds again - I had not seen them in 4 days - and it is a lolfest. Talkin' 'bout 3 GWFs jumping me while a perma erodes my health with a PBilethorn. I think the longest I lasted was 10 seconds. 1 teammate quit, 1 started camping. Myself and our GWF tried to 1v1 while the TR tried in vain to try and cap nodes.
In a nutshell; Even with match-making there are still lop-sided matches and I certainly do not want high-end premades having the opportunity to get to my spawn point once they've blown us off of all 3 nodes. I've also been in matches where we have rolled them and I fully understand why they are camping.
Also, a ramp will be abused. Guaranteed the new tactic will be to send one of your immortal Sentinels to the campfire after he has back-capped.
This.
People keep forgetting that effective matchmaking takes time to establish, and it's only been collecting data for a few days now. It won't guarantee that every match-up is close in skill level, but it should help filter AFKers down the ladder over time simply because most people don't go AFK during games that their side appears to be winning.
In the near future, once new PvPers play enough matches to rank past the chronic AFKers with their higher-than-average loss rates, the overall quality of their games should improve.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I used to like PvP, but after getting my butt whupped constantly, without a fighting chance, what is the point? I know we'll talk about strategy etc... so I guess that means out of combat and running around trying to cap without engaging the opponents. Like the DCs from previous replies, I die consistently 10-15 times a match. There has got to be a way from making this challenging and fun for the players who want to have an effect on the match; not just target practice for the person who wants to show off and laugh at you for dying so easily.
There would have been a way to make it challenging and fun, if they had listened to the people who actually played PvP and played it once themselves, instead of playing a premade of PvPers and losing 2 to 1000 (true story, you can still find the video online) while fully geared. The easiest fix for this and what they should have done was implement a simple queue system based on either GS, or just a separate queue system for premades. That was, in fact, one of the things many of us suggested, but instead they opted for an across-the-board "make everyone happy" approach that really only made lower-level and geared players happy until they get upper geared and realize how horrible it really was.
Again, matchmaking isn't much of a real thing yet. Way too many players are racking up their initial scores, and we can reasonably infer that Cryptic has relaxed the matchmaking requirements significantly for now so that we can each play more than one match per hour.
From what I've observed, it's very common to have 7k and 14k+ GS players grouped with and against each other at this point, regardless of how many matches have been won or lost. It should eventually sort itself out to be at least a bit more balanced than when it was 100% random, but it won't happen overnight. I suspect that team comp will continue to be a potential issue, but there's no perfect solution that allows the queue to do its job in a reasonable amount of time.
EDIT: In regards to a GS-restricted queue system, I actually think that this system should be preferable in the long run. Much less susceptible to exploitation and should be more representative of actual skill. As GS becomes more inflated by new equipment and artifacts, it becomes even more difficult to draw an arbitrary line.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
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