test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
High End Debuff DC - PvE
valiant4ever
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hi All,
This will be my first forum post in another class section outside of the GWF Barracks and it's something I've been meaning to post for a while now. The purpose of it is simply to commend and promote a certain type of cleric that I consider useful and in no way is my post designed to undermine any current class issues or patronise (I am simple posting from the humble perspective of a GWF that appreciates a good DC and in no way claim to understand the intricacies of playing one).
For those that don't know me, I guess it is fair to say that I am one of the "go to" GWFs in high end PvE that has been playing since beta and stuck with the class even at the most painful of times (when it was considered a "dead" class) pushing the limits of GWF gameplay as well as constantly developing my role within parties I dungeon with.
I have been forming parties and annihilating CN, MC, VT pretty much since release and both myself and those who have gamed alongside me have reaped the rewards of doing so. One thing I constantly value bringing along to the party is a cleric, but not just any type of cleric...
I have a lot of DCs on my friends list, but the ones that stand out the most are those that enable a party to burn through a dungeon faster and bring stability to the team (yes, even more so than bringing another CW or GWF). These are those rare and hard to come by breed of clerics that seem to be able to take both healing and de-buffing in their stride, are at home in the most chaotic of situations and have super hero like sixth sense where they anticipate stuff before it even happens - a prime example being throwing down astral shield where the party is going to be rather than where it is or hallowed ground being up when incoming damage seems to be at it's highest. In other words, they are dayaaam good at what they do. A few tags (and I am sure there are others) that instantly come to mind are @theosymphony , @velynna , @xsuzume , @lxfang who for me set the benchmark, with many other names starting to follow suit (you know who you are).
For example, with a GWF taking point supported by a High End DC and dare I say it some CWs the following times are possible in Castle Never in standard legit runs:
These are not guild runs or well thought out speed runs, but simply runs with strong CN regulars from various guilds who have given me the space, trust and patience (I've had some epic fails at times) to aggressively push them through dungeons.
They are all beginning to see a lot has to do with not only the AoE dps/control from CWs but the ability of the GWF to take point and pull everything onto it's heavy armour while mixing it up between AoE and Single Target damage while the DC provides de-buffs and stability (through healing and defence mitigation) to the situation. Also not getting drawn into a dps war (that 'x' button is evil ...) and truly putting your team first and your ego second helps (easier said than done across a party!).
Finally ... and most importantly ... the battles are insane as you are surrounded by enemies everywhere like something from a Lord of The Rings Movie and it's FUN. The laughter on voice comms or comments typed as you burn (or even barely scrape through a situation) with everyone pulling out all the stops makes a dungeon entertaining and more than just a farm. It is a game after all.
So what makes these High End DCs special and so valuable in parties? I am hoping others will add more detail to this, but from my perspective as the humble GWF I notice and appreciate the following:
Yes draco can be one manned with a perma-stealth TR and yes a CW is the golden child of Neverwinter and yes suddenly every man and his dog seems to be rolling a GWF (go figure... at one stage I was destined to be the orphan child of Neverwinter when a player walked up to me in protectors and asked "what class are you?" .. true story), but that is not to say that any player who truly knows, enjoys and rocks their class won't be appreciated in high end dungeon runs and make some AD in the process.
That was it really - just wanted to share my thoughts.
Be good
This will be my first forum post in another class section outside of the GWF Barracks and it's something I've been meaning to post for a while now. The purpose of it is simply to commend and promote a certain type of cleric that I consider useful and in no way is my post designed to undermine any current class issues or patronise (I am simple posting from the humble perspective of a GWF that appreciates a good DC and in no way claim to understand the intricacies of playing one).
For those that don't know me, I guess it is fair to say that I am one of the "go to" GWFs in high end PvE that has been playing since beta and stuck with the class even at the most painful of times (when it was considered a "dead" class) pushing the limits of GWF gameplay as well as constantly developing my role within parties I dungeon with.
I have been forming parties and annihilating CN, MC, VT pretty much since release and both myself and those who have gamed alongside me have reaped the rewards of doing so. One thing I constantly value bringing along to the party is a cleric, but not just any type of cleric...
I have a lot of DCs on my friends list, but the ones that stand out the most are those that enable a party to burn through a dungeon faster and bring stability to the team (yes, even more so than bringing another CW or GWF). These are those rare and hard to come by breed of clerics that seem to be able to take both healing and de-buffing in their stride, are at home in the most chaotic of situations and have super hero like sixth sense where they anticipate stuff before it even happens - a prime example being throwing down astral shield where the party is going to be rather than where it is or hallowed ground being up when incoming damage seems to be at it's highest. In other words, they are dayaaam good at what they do. A few tags (and I am sure there are others) that instantly come to mind are @theosymphony , @velynna , @xsuzume , @lxfang who for me set the benchmark, with many other names starting to follow suit (you know who you are).
For example, with a GWF taking point supported by a High End DC and dare I say it some CWs the following times are possible in Castle Never in standard legit runs:
- 4 person CN: under 25 mins legit CN Run 4/4 using 1x GWF, 2x CWs, 1x Debuff DC
- 5 person CN: under 20 mins legit CN Run 4/4 using 1x GWF, 2x CWs, 1x Debuff DC, 1x Any Other Class
These are not guild runs or well thought out speed runs, but simply runs with strong CN regulars from various guilds who have given me the space, trust and patience (I've had some epic fails at times) to aggressively push them through dungeons.
They are all beginning to see a lot has to do with not only the AoE dps/control from CWs but the ability of the GWF to take point and pull everything onto it's heavy armour while mixing it up between AoE and Single Target damage while the DC provides de-buffs and stability (through healing and defence mitigation) to the situation. Also not getting drawn into a dps war (that 'x' button is evil ...) and truly putting your team first and your ego second helps (easier said than done across a party!).
Finally ... and most importantly ... the battles are insane as you are surrounded by enemies everywhere like something from a Lord of The Rings Movie and it's FUN. The laughter on voice comms or comments typed as you burn (or even barely scrape through a situation) with everyone pulling out all the stops makes a dungeon entertaining and more than just a farm. It is a game after all.
So what makes these High End DCs special and so valuable in parties? I am hoping others will add more detail to this, but from my perspective as the humble GWF I notice and appreciate the following:
- They run High Prophets Set for de-buffing and mantain stacks
- They understand the benefits of defence mitigation as well as healing and de-buffing and how to use it to bring stability and increased damage to the team
- Their Astral Shield and Hallowed Ground "feel" stronger. Someone wiser than me can probably explain this, but as a GWF I can "feel" the difference in astral shields and hallowed ground - I guess this has to do with a combination of being feated correctly and also more power?
- They truly enjoy playing their class and anticipate situations putting small touches here and there to stabilise e.g. clearing the path for a rez, helping out with CC by throwing the odd rogue red wizard into the pack that a CW may have missed on Draco, throwing down astral shield where the party is going to be or holding off until the right time on astral/hallowed ground in anticipation of incoming damage
- Divine Glow seems to be up all the time rather than just on the odd occassion
- They run Greater Plague Fire (or a similar enchant which benefits the team)
- They are "tanky" (defence and lesser soul forged) and also know how to evade for queen, country, president and dictator if the situation calls for it.
- They are not afraid to experiment with their class and mix it up a little bit to develop gameplay
- They are modest, polite, know how to have fun taking pride in their role and consequently are a pleasure to run with
Yes draco can be one manned with a perma-stealth TR and yes a CW is the golden child of Neverwinter and yes suddenly every man and his dog seems to be rolling a GWF (go figure... at one stage I was destined to be the orphan child of Neverwinter when a player walked up to me in protectors and asked "what class are you?" .. true story), but that is not to say that any player who truly knows, enjoys and rocks their class won't be appreciated in high end dungeon runs and make some AD in the process.
That was it really - just wanted to share my thoughts.
Be good
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by valiant4ever on
0
Comments
Nice post. As a DC I do most of the above and really appreciate when the other members of the party recognise what a DC, particularly a debuff DC brings to the party. Like you say its more than DPS.
Agree with everything in your post, particularly running High Prophet. It doesn't give the e-peen Gear Score but much more effective for the party.
Only thing I don't have is the Greater Plague Fire, still running with Greater Vorpal as it can also crit heals. Ran with a GWF with Greater Plague Fire and with debuffs, mobs just melted. Possibly Terror might be another alternative to Plague Fire
Been playing a bit of PvP and the best combo is GWF & DC working as team, hard to beat.
Anyone thanks for your post, hope to see you in game.
Looking for a guild for PvE Dungeons to suit AEST evenings
In a low-end group (say, a typical T1 PUG with an average GS of 11K), a DC has to focus on healing. Buffing and debuffing is not going to make or break the run if the group does not manage to stay alive.
However, in a high-end group (say, a CN/MC/VT guild group with an average GS of 15K), the other group members will have much higher lifesteal and regeneration stats, meaning that the DC healing is not as necessary. In this case, the DC will most help the group by being a buffer/debuffer and focus on boosting the group's DPS,
Now, it seems that in my own case I will be switching my Miracle Healer set out for High Prophet when I try to fill that second role, and instead of using divine Forgemaster's Flame, I will be using divine Divine Glow. (Using Hallowed Ground, Astral Seal and Astral Shield in both cases, of course). I am a bit unsure on what the best weapon enchant would be, however - Terror or Plaguefire. The OP talked about Plaguefire, but Terror seems about as good ... or am I missing something?
Also, one other question. Do the debuffs from the Rust Monster and the Fire Archon only apply to me, or do they affect the whole group? Does anyone know?
If you are already around 13k GS you can easily carry a PUG in T1 while still wearing High Prophet. And I'd still run same encounters, Sunburst, Divine Glow & Astral Shield. Just keep an eye on everyone and make sure lots of Astral Seals on everything they attack. Should see a lot of Burning Guidance which will help.
I'm looking at Plague Fire vs Terror for my DC as well.
Terror does slightly more damage but only 1-2% at each level
Terror has a Perfect, Plague Fire only goes to Greater
Plague Fire can be stacked up to 3 times for 5% (Lesser) each time but only lasts 3 seconds
Terror reduces defenses by 5% (Lesser) but lasts 5 seconds
Terror is slightly cheaper on AH
The stacking makes Plague Fire better but you have to hit often to make it work. Its probably better suited to a fast attacker, while slow attacker like DC would be better with longer lasting debuff.
Also same enchantments don't stack. So if you have someone with Plague Fire in group it won't stack with another Plague Fire. Best setup is to have one of each and then they stack.
I'm thinking Terror for DC but either are fine.
Current AH prices
Plague Fire
Lesser = 200k, 5% per stack, max 15%
Normal = 1M, 10% per stack, max 30%
Greater = 2.7M, 15% per stack, max 45%
Terror
Lesser = 160K, 5% debuff
Normal = 700K, 10% debuff
Greater = 1.6M, 15% debuff
Perfect = 2.7M, 20% debuff
Looking for a guild for PvE Dungeons to suit AEST evenings
Well, in my healing role (and yeah, I have a Greater Vorpal) I have been using a pretty traditional power selection - keep up Hallowed ground as much as I can, spam Astral Seal on everything, use Sun Burst and try to hit both players and mobs at the same time, put divine Astral shield wherever it is needed, and drop divine FF on the boss. Nothing unusual there....and it works just great in every T1/T2.
The issue is really just about what to do when running CN/MC/VT with a seriously geared group. If I switch as described above, the team would lose the heals from the FF and the Miracle healer set, and the critical bonus the vorpal enchantment provides, but would gain the buff from HP, (Terror or Plaguefire) and Divine Glow. Combined, those should significantly boost their DPS, and the question is really if the tradeoff is worth it. The OP seems to think so.
With well geared party DC's role is all about buff/debuff that is where it really shines.
As Valiant wrote, DC can make a huge difference when he's on buff/debuff mode. It's not the matter of heals - that are not really needed as much with good gear, boons, artifact etc - it's the matter of using the skills when they're needed & compose yourself to the party setup to maximize their performance thus...making the run not only faster but more fun at the same time !
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Im grinding GG coins right now for the prophet champion set so I can just turn it in for whatever crappy pvp set they are forcing me to have.. (in all honestly I just want to use high prophet for everything) Im at 13.1 with high prophet on and 13.6 with miracle healer, but trust me, it makes a different to some people, who "only want" a 13.5+ dc (of course Ive seen 14+ , 15+ requests before as well.)
I find no reason to bring added healing to any group above 12k or so average, if poeple die its not becuase of my heals, or lack therof, its becuase they stand in red circles, any additional healing wont save them from that burst damage (maybe a divine armour quick cast or a divine HW would , I refuse to slot HW to save someone from thier stupidity, use your own outs, thats what they are there for. )
Normal slots for me is HP/with plaguefire/linked spirit, feated Aseal and HG up whenever I can. I would typically slot Divine Glow if I have melee with me or a extra DPS slot if I have ranged with me. (so like Duanting/chains or Divine Glow , SB and Ashield. Thats pretty much all you need I guess. Im not ubergeared but thats what works best for me.
Kaelics guide showed me this when I started playing like 3 months ago, I used alot of his advice, though Im slightly tweaked a couple feats, just becuase I wanted to =P...
Hey that's me. A cleric running ahead and pulling like crazy.
You're making a few mistakes but since you don't play a cleric I will forgive you.
High prophet isn't always the best set choice, especially for non-bosses situations or massive pulls. It's not reliable, a bit lackluster in most areas (stats are plainly bad, it's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for heals, and the debuff isn't reliable when there are too many NPCs around). You just don't see it but these clerics will "feel" better just swapping sets depending on the dungeon or encounter. Most of the damage buffs come from linked spirit, divine glow & hallowed ground anyway. HP is just extra bonus, when it's relevant or possible to have it.
I'm almost sure I haven't played with you yet but many people send me friend requests because they have the same experience as you have with your clerics. If any of you want to experience that, you can find me on the legit channel, for what it's worth. The only difference is that i'm definitely not modest, but that's just me. :P
I really like your post, can i add it to mmominds.com???
I think he's talking about with massive pulls you are unable to apply that many stacks of HP... It only stacks on the initial hit of a spell and most dc spells have a hit cap. At most you will get one stack of HP with searing light and that is all.
Divine glow, chains, daunting all have hit caps of 5/7... if you pull 30+ adds your spell will not even affect 50% of them. While healing can keep your party up and going. I switch from MH to HP in boss fights but for trash I use MH b/c we can pull massive amounts since I can be
1) tankier
2) heal more with the addition of an extra almost 1k power and more recovery
Well, this, precisely.
I'm using HP mainly during karrundax (adds & final boss), Temple of ths Spider (everywhere, no prones so i can stack HP debuffs on driders safely while standing in red), Frozen heart (final boss), sometimes in CN or VT/final boss if the team is outstanding, and when I'm doing T1 for the lulz or helping friends.
The only difference is that I'm using the overlooked Fabled Ilyiaburen set. The set is a lot more offensive while providing the same 4 pts bonus healing output as MH for a non HP monster cleric, and it's more often healing allies than me. Less recovery is also a strong argument in favor of this "everyday" set to me.