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State of NW from a PvP TR FoV
limeye3
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 101
So...
I'm Snow,
I main a TR and i enjoy PvP far more than PvE in NW. ( personal opinion )
I took a break from NW for 2 weeks and when i came back and PvP'd the entire day, i was rather
.
I logged in to find out even more of my friends had quit, and even more good players had quit.
All the new players in my guild which i 1 v 1d today really me, obliberated BiS (best in slotted) TRs, HRs, CWs, and i almost killed BiS GWFs (this is not right!).
I'm not making this thread to say i am a good TR or anything, if anything id be humble and say im just around decent, but thats not the point here.
The point is that PuG's (public groups / randoms) got worse and worse in PvP i don't really understand how this is possible though...
Id like to ask if anyone else has noticed that the PvPers are getting worse and if you know the reason for that.
I'm Snow,
I main a TR and i enjoy PvP far more than PvE in NW. ( personal opinion )
I took a break from NW for 2 weeks and when i came back and PvP'd the entire day, i was rather
.I logged in to find out even more of my friends had quit, and even more good players had quit.
All the new players in my guild which i 1 v 1d today really
me, obliberated BiS (best in slotted) TRs, HRs, CWs, and i almost killed BiS GWFs (this is not right!).I'm not making this thread to say i am a good TR or anything, if anything id be humble and say im just around decent, but thats not the point here.
The point is that PuG's (public groups / randoms) got worse and worse in PvP i don't really understand how this is possible though...
Id like to ask if anyone else has noticed that the PvPers are getting worse and if you know the reason for that.
Post edited by limeye3 on
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At least that is what seems to be happening to me, from some of the folks I've talked to.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
PS: No, nobody can have my stuff. I've already given out 15mil AD worth.
Snow why not get a hold of all these PvPers who have left and ask them why. Make a post with detailed reasons on why people are leaving/disappointed. I would think the Devs would like to know legitimate reasons, though I have my doubts on if a thread like that would stay open with the Mods around here.
The pvp patch will be adding in a semi GS match up system, so you'll find better players one would believe or at least better geared players then, as well as a crit nerf due to tenacity. So maybe youll find "better" players then...But im betting youll just find new things to whine about.
While you've been away for 2 weeks, we (EoA) have had some really good inhouse matches. When we don't have enough people for 2 teams, then we generally just queue up for glory farming, and hope to run into other premades. Some of those matches have been very fun too. Then last night, some of us from EoA partied up with Dulce for an inhouse, where the match lasted 1hr 23mins, it was great to learn some of their tactics.
My point is, if you're trying to look for a good match, don't pug! You're in such a great guild at EoA, although not everyone is as good as you, we have a lot good players that are on at different times of the day, and we're always up for some inhouse or against another premade.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
People share my opinion, and think that the upcoming pvp patch is the reason for newbies to start pvping. (this is not a bad thing)
Its a great thing when people start pvping, but its a bad thing they just drop dead isntantly, and they do not learn.
A tutorial wont teach you how to play, it wont give you 'skills' it might help you out, but when against a fully geared GWF it wont mean anything.
Also just for a statement, i play on a TR, with lesser enchants and rank 6s, look me up on the gateway Snow@limeye3.
This is pretty much saying you dont need gear to be a good player.
Premades are hard to get in this game, they dont have a queue option to premade and only a few people premade, and the majority just doesnt want to premade cause they'll know they'll lose.
Just cause im a TR doesnt mean what im saying is wrong, i play with PUG enchants, really bad enchants, i have a good build and i roll with that, my rolls arent that good, my race is so-so yet i still do good, skill matters. (not saying im skilled)
Yea i wasn't on about you merlin haha, my main point was though, that pugs dont get better, the only get worse.
I already know i wont get a good match when pugging, cause it'll be just me carrying 4 people. ( this is bad -.- )
What sre the new pvp changes i haven't played in months because i got bored of lack of pvp. if you could link the thread about new pvp or describe what has changed that would be highly appreciated. Thanks
It has became impossible for my cw or gf to carry pugs. It is quite boring when I have to 1 v 2 the entire time and get killed after the 3rd came and then only to find out my team is still at home base fighting god knows who.
Lots of time not even the TR can do the trick. The only class I can use to solo queue and still win game is GWF cause GWF is OP
Honestly though, there are still quite some good players around. Snow's guild is not really a good standard since most players in guild has really high skill compare to average PVPer but are outclassed by the actual high caliber ones in general.
1. Increase in population leads to a drop in average skill level. This is a natural thing that happens with every MMOG.
2. The imbalance of PvP has been going on for such a long time, that most newbies have been influenced and "spoiled" by it. Too many self-justifying excuses on why it's not a bad thing to leave losing matches. Instead of learning how to really fight, the newbies learn to make up excuses for walking from the match, and grovel like a beggar for cap-trading.
3. The lack of duel/dueling arenas make it difficult for good players to really demonstrate and teach their techniques to others. Most of the times the "teachers" have to do it on dummies, or wait for a random queue to make it possible.
4. Instead of good players "spreading out" among the masses to show and teach what they can do, they form premades and just enjoy it by themselves, which leads to one-sided steamrolling -- nobody learns from being steamrolled when they don't even have a chance to try fling a few skills. The end result is PuGs have nothing but absolute despise against PvP guilds, and will choose to simply drop the match when they face a premade... which then leads to premade people having nothing to fight, PvP becomes boring and stale, and then in the end they just quit the game.
...
It actually takes a bit of a self-sacrifice and moral-reasoning for good PvP players to nurture and cultivate a good PvP environment. Being just a good player isn't enough -- good players need to be more conscious about what kind of effect/influence they have over the commnity. Instead, IMO the "veterans" and "skilled" have done absolutely nothing to help the PvP community of NW at all. I don't find it surprising at all.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I play nothing but PUGs, just my thing, I like a challenge, trouble is most of the time, I find myself riding to the middle out of the gate..... By myself,, and the opposing team generally a premade are all coming at that middle so i try to run back cause no way am i taking 5 of them. but then I'm like okay, maybe I can try to pull them away from the mid so team can come cap it, so i go back in and drag half of them chasing me. in the mean time, My team are ALL up there on this one opponent at our node I'm like wtf, so here i am in a 4v1, getting rooted and CCed cause my stealth cant last long with incoming damage. SO in order to survive i have taken to just remaining with them , which also DOES NOT pay off, because once again they are not doing anything remotely close to trying to cap the mid just running around in a group trying to cap nodes. I'm like aggravated and pissed off at this point because I'm pretty sure I have gone through several matchs of the same bs right before this match. then I get into the one good match Im like ok. like night before last ,, My Pug team and an opposing premade were just staying even trying to fight on the mid node both had clerics ,, teams felt even. and I'm like this is a **** good match, this went on till around half way till one of my team died then the cleric cause as much as i tried defending the cleric. their GWfs just ate them up and tried turning on me so I had to abandon the node since i was the only one left. the rest got scared and started doing the typical lets run to the safest node and win that way, well it didn't work, and i tried to explain to them it wouldn't work. since the other team Im pretty sure was in full time communication on a Voice server. and was anticipating our teams moves,, I was the only one it seems they had a hard time with. I tried guarding the cleric but a rogue can only do so much against a organized 3 up to 4 players coming at them and the cleric.
There is this I don't know how else to describe it but chicken **** mentality with the new gen crowd. I am a aggressive player running with these people and it gets me killed ,, but I'm there to fight not run around playing capture the flag.
if i need glory then Ill cap nodes of course. but as I remain capped I tend not to care about being on top the list ,,, I can get most kills in a match and be near the bottom. don't care. doesn't matter, I play because its Player Vs Player to me ,, not who can cap the most nodes. that's the mentality now. node cap wins.
( Long winded i know but theres more to say)
I've also found that the guild matches against pugs , the guilds are quite abusive about it acting like they are better and trying to do the best they can to make the new players not want to play, literally. its terrible, even your own guild is guilty of this snow. but I am not singling out any one group because allot of guilds do this. what I mean is. lets say this match starts out. and 2 maybe 3 of my team (if I am lucky) runs towards the middle. The Guild premade Im against first all runs towards the middle ,,, HRs root you and the GWFs just pound the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of you then they all take off to get to our node and pound them to death, and then run to camp spawn point so noone can come out without being pounded. I typically stealth up run out and get to their node ,,,, one or two come, typically 2, sometimes 3 and try to make sure I am not surviving, well bad news for them my regen and hp are too high for that, so I run, cant fight a GWF straight up with others with them. so try to catch one alone to fight, get one alone, what happens here comes 2 more to join them. This happens Every time. So part of the problem is, in my opinion when it comes to these matches PUgs aren't given an opportunity to learn how to play better. and it is usually everyone for their self in a pug. I see a major flaw in this system. it is a matter of people have adapted to playing safety, if the pug would learn to play like the premade, and i have seen some pugs , mostly the ones who already have experience and been around a while to know. that will make a premade run. but anyone remotely new , nope ,, can't win with that group. too many <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who want to win other than be a good sport in the game and give people a breathing room chance and just gang all over the place just because they can. THAT is the problem and what you are seeing now Snow.
True. I PUGGED against two members from a very, very, VERY well known PvP guild on Saturday and their behaviour left a bad taste in my mouth.
I fought as best as I could but we were outmatched and they took all 3 nodes before two of my teammates quit. In zone chat one of them says ''1v1''. I jump down, tag (I'm a GF) the guy standing closest to me and engage. It is an HR from said guild. As we all know, ranged players are frustrating for a GF to close on but I get him a few times, down to 30% health before he kills me. Upon my death their GWF calls me a ''hacker'' followed by ''lol''. I point out that I, with my rank 6s, PvE build and normal weapon enchant was the best geared player on my team while the HR is in a famous PvP guild and thus the HR almost certainly out gears me, his guild partner almost certainly out gears me and judging by how he (GWF) curb-stomped me in 1v1 (I can kill GWFs that are not geared out the nose) he out geared me as well. No response to that observation other than a sarcastic ''must we take our clothes off?'' as my toon runs PvP in his underpants just because.
The "1-vs-1" comment is a classic fishing.
All the enemies standing around their comrade would by itself boost your opponent's stats quite a bit through team buffs, not to mention mess up aiming or homing of some powers, and also significantly hinder powers influenced by number of targets (such as Bloodbath for TRs).
I can guarantee you that in about 8 out of 10 instances, someone will interfere and kill you in the said "1-vs-1" scenario, when you are actually about to win and embarrass the smug premade guy with a "defeated-by-PuG" shame.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I'm a TR also, aiming for a perma stealth build. I was participating in PvP from the character level it was available to level 60. Up to level 59 PvP was really fun, quite balanced and not so many leavers. Sometimes I was top player, sometimes at the bottom but I feeled that my skills made me to the top, or I was lamish in particular match. I was a frequent PvPer, both in Pvp event hour and in general times. Really liked it. Collected enough Glory to buy skulker set at the moment 60 dinged. PvP on level 60 is completely different.
First issue: Plague of leavers
Maybe I have bad luck when NW combines the queue team, but in the recent days 75% my PvP games ended with 2 leavers after first death or "impossible to win" 30:50 state. 3v5, so yeah about the fighting for victory. It's either cap trade if the winning team is kind enough, instant death in 1v5 fight being result of my attempt to sneaky point takeover or just sitting and waiting for that 100 glory if manged to get a kill somehow. It's number one source of frustration for me. 75% of matches are not fun at all. I I'm in a full team, what's the fun in owning people in 5v2 fight, how dull is standing and cap trading every few seconds? Last man standing scenario is also terribad, you can't do anything if the opposite team does not let you cap trade or go 1v1. Well, time to man up and carry on.
Second issue: Premade teams
Next 10% matches is premade guild team which just wipes the floor with PuG team even if we are all trying our best. Well, that's quite expeced to get beaten by carefully setup squad, voice communicated and coordinated and well-geared. But it really has no sense to setup matches premade vs. PUG. There should be separate queues for that. I never leave a match, but vs. premades it ends up as bad as 0:15 kllis:deaths ratio and 0 glory gain :-( Well, time to man up and carry on.
Third issue: Enormous difference in gear
Fresh 60 vs. fully geared and booned player? Really frustrating. I catch lightly armoured class dude solo, approach him from stealth unleash all encounters, CC, dailies and see that he facetanks my attacks that take maybe 15% of his HP and then kills me in a 5s.
I have 11.5 GS from Skulker set, T2 weapons, T2 ring/neck/waist, r5/r6 enchants (stacking recovery). Nothing to be proud of, but I have quite decent base damage, >48% cirt, 20% ArPen, so not terribad. And when approaching 16-17K GS guys I feel like fighting naked with wet noodles in my both hands. At level 60, there should be separate queues depending on GS, f.e. <10KGS, 10-12K, 12-14K, etc. Well, time to man up and carry on.
Fourth issue: OP classes in PvP
GWFs? This class has so many strong features and may keep them all without sacrificing anything. Are the devs serious? And decreased cooldown on missed takedown? It's insult to players of all other classes, not punishing GWF for a mistake. GFs are also very hard at PvP, first knockback means sure death. People say CW are so much OP, well not true for TR since we can break their CC and as a lightest armoured class they have hard times with me. It's never like that I don't scratch them, even if the kill me they get hurt in the process. Unless of course they can facetank my attacks, see third issue. Well, time to man up and carry on.
Result: I hate PvP @ 60 since getting and maintaining full, balanced teams is practically impossible. Too many times I feel that having my butt delivered to me is not a result of my mistakes but trying to win a hopless fight. Now I'm a boy to be beaten. When I gear to 16K, get perfect soulforge/vorpal/ r8-r10 enchants I will be the one steamrolling fresh 9K GS players. Maybe I'll score some GWFs from time to time. Fun in PvP comes from reasonable challange. For me being steamrolled is not fun, nor is beeing a steamroller.
After buying full armor set I had something like 9K glory leftover from PvP before lev 60. Grinded remaining glory to 24K in event hours just to get the artifact. Last few fights I was totally burned out with PvP. Ragequitted PvP until they fix it at level 60.
The main reason of this is quitters, people had grown tired of the game and just left for another.
We have been patiently waiting for new pvp content but all we got every single update is pve content, and the upcoming pvp patch seems really interesting and a game changer, but its going to be completely the same unless we get more queue's (nothing confirmed about this) http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?582741-Shadowmantle-PvP-Preview-Patch-Notes-NW-14-20140114b-1
The new members we are getting in are not 'good' pvpers this is not a insult however its just a fact, im not someone who sugarcoats stuff.
Like i already mentioned the new gen is dissapointing, even if you teach people things theres only so much you can learn, if they cant do things themselves after lots of help its just pathetic, its like seeing someone with BiS gear and legendary artifacts who cant even play the right way after giving him loads of advice and tips, its like you dont deserve to use those items lol.
And currently there really are only about 3 guilds that are allowd to be called pvp guilds, these are not even pvp guilds anymore, mine included, people only really premade with their A team, and you find out to hear that a guild premade which was pugging got defeated by pugs is just, facepalm. And when the average players premade, they win either by a huge margin or a small one against no name guilds.
The guild behaviour when you come across guild premades is just terrible, this goes for all guilds, mine is no exception.
For some reason people feel godly when theyre in a premade, well theyre not.
Sometimes when i pug and i come across a guild premade they ALWAYS trash talk, this always happens when people start leaving cause they get more deaths than kills.
When this happens i always ask to 1 v 1 them, about 97.5% of the time i win the 1 v 1s regardless of the class.
Resulting in them saying im a hacker and that my build takes no skill etc.
Moving onto the better geared people is something i'll be really short on, the current queue system doesn't have gs reqs for example, we don't have a ELO system YET, but when this gets implemented this will change (hopefully).
But to leave the topic of better geared players and the queue system since there is nothing confirmed about new queue systems yet.
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The plague of leavers is a massive problem, they are however implementing a system to punish leavers, in my opinion though the punishment is very harsh, a 30 minute penalty to a pvper that only pvps is like a stake to the heart. It wouldv been nicer if it was a 5 min penalty and increases every time you leave or something and that it resets every 24 hours. Cause they probably wont take account internet problems, and dcs etc. NW's servers are really laggy so this happens to me quite a lot. T_T
Fixes are on the test server, so hopefully it will be better.
Matchmaking so low-level players won't have to deal with guilds/premades rolling over them
Penalties for leaving.
Also, because of matchmaking leaving in general may decrease drastically as people should be fighting players at their level.
The 30 minute penalty could be reasonable for players who leave intentionally, but the penalty also includes restriction for PvE content which could be overboard.
Yea I read that somewhere too, it's definitely good to have.