People leave because there is no matchmaking. You don't punish people to fix behavior caused by a broken mechanic. That's just backward logic that leads to nothing but resentment and pushing people out of the PvP community.
I'm going to go back to wow for this one. Back when I played it there were no ranked battlegrounds. Yet if you left you got a deserter debuff. It worked. Yeah new people got facerolled, but they didn't leave, because they knew that they'd slowly get points, get better pvp gear, and improve their skills. Leaving in this game is from people being defeatist and not being willing to ever lose.
0
twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
I'm going to go back to wow for this one. Back when I played it there were no ranked battlegrounds. Yet if you left you got a deserter debuff. It worked. Yeah new people got facerolled, but they didn't leave, because they knew that they'd slowly get points, get better pvp gear, and improve their skills. Leaving in this game is from people being defeatist and not being willing to ever lose.
People are leaving because they get stomped to the point that they get little to no points, so they are doing nothing but wasting their time. You don't need ranked battle grounds if you have a decent matchmaking system, or reward players in a way that gives them a reason to stick around, even if they lose bad.
People are leaving because they get stomped to the point that they get little to no points, so they are doing nothing but wasting their time. You don't need ranked battle grounds if you have a decent matchmaking system, or reward players in a way that gives them a reason to stick around, even if they lose bad.
wait. how is someone getting owned by GS a mechanic? how is someone leaving because they are frustrated a mechanic?
I see how someone can be frustrated due to the mechanic of the matchmaking (or lack-thereof) resulting in them being unsettled furthering their emotion... but that emotion doesn't literally move the mouse and clicks the leave party button. that's their choice. when someone is disconnected and ruins the game because of network (server, backbone or user based)... that's another story. Sure, negative reinforcement doesn't fix the issue in many cases but some sort of temporary demerit is used widely for many reasons - as for positive reinforcement, i enjoy the PvP and get owned often, even in pre-mades (we're not PvPers). If we are having a good battle and someone (or 2, some 5-4s are still fun) leaves at 600-450 it literally puts a damper on everyone's (both sides) mood towards the PvP and the one the leaves and disconnects is basically off with little to no repercussions and gets what they want, another equal try to win & possibly acquire more glory.
0
twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited February 2014
It's a missing mechanic when the divide between new PvP players and well geared players is so big. You put in a matchmaking system that pits people against one another to create closer, more competitive matches, and they stick around long enough to gear up, to better their skill level, and you cultivate a stronger PvP community.
It's a missing mechanic when the divide between new PvP players and well geared players is so big. You put in a matchmaking system that pits people against one another to create closer, more competitive matches, and they stick around long enough to gear up, to better their skill level, and you cultivate a stronger PvP community.
So people shouldn't be allowed to gear and better their toons? I tell you what though. I've seen people with 9k gs's devastate other players because they had skills where the people that leave just don't.
So people shouldn't be allowed to gear and better their toons? I tell you what though. I've seen people with 9k gs's devastate other players because they had skills where the people that leave just don't.
Nah, people are fine to get better gear and team up with all the best of the players.
Just don't expect the others to play a game through with you.
Every game needs someone to play with, and no one's going to play a game they're destined to get steamrolled and trolled in.
When you gain something, you lose something. When you make premades, you lose people who are willing to play with you.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Nah, people are fine to get better gear and team up with all the best of the players.
Just don't expect the others to play a game through with you.
Every game needs someone to play with, and no one's going to play a game they're destined to get steamrolled and trolled in.
When you gain something, you lose something. When you make premades, you lose people who are willing to play with you.
When you aren't willing to try, you lose respect and skill.
I've said it before I'll say it again, I'm very casual with pvp, the premades I'm in are just of people that know each other with no forethought of gearing or composition. A team of good players in a pug could win easily. But since no one tries....... Hard to have any respect for them at that point.
i've seen 8ks devestate 10-13ks. at 14-15k it might take more than 1 if you're 9k with blues..
I can't help but snicker at the notion that people assume that "you are destined to lose" therefore it's justifiable AND shouldn't upset people (how dare they). I don't think dogma/destiny is programmed into games like these. The only destiny you're fulfilling is not finishing something you've started, like mentioned earlier. unless people are claiming to read the future...? Baddys are bad.
0
twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited February 2014
Sure, sometimes you have some people who have the skill and just haven't finished gearing up yet, and you have people who have geared up but lack the skill, but those are not the norm in PvP.
If you think that PvP is perfectly fine without matchmaking, is perfectly fine just the way it is, then I wonder about your motivation, I wonder where your PvP enjoyment comes from. I find nothing enjoyable in partaking in overly lopsided matches from either side, and I assure you, most others do not enjoy it either. Sure, some people with a certain mentality enjoy facing off against lesser competition so they can build up their own ego and tell everyone "how good" they are, and sure, some people are willing to push through and be your punching bag in an effort to gear and improve, but by and large, the current climate of PvP matches will end up pushing people away and turning the PvP community into such a minority that Cryptic won't have much incentive to support it.
If you create a system where people have the ability to face off against others of similar skill and gear, you foster a better community that will cultivate new additions to PvP and help develop their skills and gear instead of turning them off and laughing at the "baddies" when they give up PvP all together in the face of elitist attitudes and sad little people who have to make themselves feel better by facing off against people who pose no challenge.
I would hazard a guess and say that MOST people who enjoy PvP as their main activity in NW would prefer a system where they can enjoy more balanced matches as the norm. I would guess that they WANT a better, stronger, more populated PvP community to foster the spirit of competition, to show the developers that PvP appeals to a larger portion of the overall community and warrants even more attention.
Of course, no, I don't know all the PvP'ers and can only guess based on my limited interaction with people who do nothing but PvP in NW.
People should get glory points for damage dealt, damage sustained, and healing dealt, that way, even if you can't win or are against a team that won't let you take any bases, you can still get some glory points. And also add a deserter buff for 15 mins or so. that way every match you'll win something, maybe not much, but better than nothing.
If people who actually do something in pvp do get glory points, no matter if they win or loose, and there is a deserter buff, people wouldn't leave that much.
0
twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited February 2014
I'm sure it's buried here somewhere, but I like your idea combined with something else I proposed earlier.
First, expand ways to score points for Glory. Second, take into account certain factors of the match when awarding said Glory.
In rudimentary fashion, it could be something like:
(Glory Awarded(# Players on opposing team at end of match/# Players on your team at end of match)+Glory Awarded(Opponents AVG GS/Personal GS))/2
That gives you more ways to earn Glory and also boots your Glory gained when you fight short handed and against stronger opponents.
I like the idea of giving more glory to teams that are incomplete against a full 5 man team.
0
theheroshieldMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 24Arc User
edited February 2014
Can you vote-kick in PvP? Because if you give more points for more people that leave your group, that'll be what happens in some PuGs (probably right at the end when you're just about to collect the glory).
People leave because there is no matchmaking. You don't punish people to fix behavior caused by a broken mechanic. That's just backward logic that leads to nothing but resentment and pushing people out of the PvP community.
That. Since the system is broken it's only natural that people would misuse it, misunderstand it or even completely ignore it. Punishing people for leaving when they're getting badly beat, or getting DC'd, is just unfair. You don't spank a kid who's upset you won't spend any time with him. You spend more time with him. You fix the problem. You don't punish people for acting out when there's a serious issue at hand. You get no respect that way.
I don't boycott pre-mades but I'm very wary of them. Most of the time I find they steamroll n' troll and that's not fun at all. I just stick around to see if a) we can give them an equal fight b) beat them (and I'm courteous when I do) or c) they defeat us but don't act like jerks about it. If they can't be civil I walk away. As was said by someone else, we're not here to be ego-boosters for 12 year olds who spend all day on the game trolling folks.
The solution is simple: match-making and/or tiers. I can tell you my favorite PvPs were the times my team was equally matched with the opposing team and had a close race to the points. Sometimes we won; sometimes they did. In the end it was all good fun. Because, seriously, who has fun being stomped on or steamrolling someone else? I'd worry for myself I ever found either of that fun! XD
Nah, people are fine to get better gear and team up with all the best of the players.
Just don't expect the others to play a game through with you.
Every game needs someone to play with, and no one's going to play a game they're destined to get steamrolled and trolled in.
When you gain something, you lose something. When you make premades, you lose people who are willing to play with you.
Whaaaat? The whole reason there are premades is because people have other people to play the game with. Those who play solo only and maybe q for dungeons, never say a word and leave immediately after are the ones who don't have anyone to play with. These are the same who get roflstomped in pugs in pvp and then qq that pvp is so hard after their cakewalk through rubbing salve on little animals, talking to elves and killing boogeymen in pve.
People who like to play with other people find other people to play with and so guilds and premades are born. I don't know any of these that really enjoy destroying a randomly cobbled together collection of loners. Matchmaking, yes. And we ask, we pretty much demand, a system where people will find actual competition and even a challenge to well coordinated teamwork, aka, playing together.
Make the Glory obtained from filling the charts in Gauntlegrym equal to the glory forom PvP and you won't see many leavers in PvP.
At the current stage you need to do 1 year of grinding to get the desired 24k glory through the Gauntlegrym PvE event. Just up the Glory received for 5 fire shards loaded into a cart to 50.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
I'm sure it's buried here somewhere, but I like your idea combined with something else I proposed earlier.
First, expand ways to score points for Glory. Second, take into account certain factors of the match when awarding said Glory.
In rudimentary fashion, it could be something like:
(Glory Awarded(# Players on opposing team at end of match/# Players on your team at end of match)+Glory Awarded(Opponents AVG GS/Personal GS))/2
That gives you more ways to earn Glory and also boots your Glory gained when you fight short handed and against stronger opponents.
I agree that there should be increased rewards for sticking it out in a "no-win" situation. I would go so far as to say there should even be an option to switch teams when your destroying another team and they are missing players. THAT would be fun.
I disagree that the reward should be glory or anything like gg coins. Glory is for a starter set of epic gear that is a little better than mul gear, the gg gear is a slight upgrade to that until one finds or buys better t2 gear. Once you have your pvp artifact, a full set of t2 pvp gear, glory and gg coins serve only as a way to generate ad. And not even that much. Most people I know who are hardcore pvpers have long shed their glory/gg gear and play domination only (no horse race) and for fun alone because after a certain point you really can't improve your stats on anything you get through pvp.
Make the Glory obtained from filling the charts in Gauntlegrym equal to the glory forom PvP and you won't see many leavers in PvP.
At the current stage you need to do 1 year of grinding to get the desired 24k glory through the Gauntlegrym PvE event. Just up the Glory received for 5 fire shards loaded into a cart to 50.
Why would anyone grind gg for a year for the 24k glory they can earn just by doing domination for a few days? Maybe I am missing something.
Until they introduce a better form of matchmaking, leaving matches *is* the only way to search for a good match. Penalizing people for searching for a good match is absurd.
A penalty for leavers should only come *after* they've introduced functional matchmaking that gets you decent matches most of the time.
By searching for a good match do you mean one your team immediately starts winning? I can tell you right now that's bull****. The problem is that you can immediately queue up again and again until you have the advantage. That's exactly what a lot of these players are doing. If you come into a PvP match rockin' an 8k GS you better expect you're going to get bodied. I was definitely a bit harsh when I said an hour+ debuff, but 15-30 minutes is not asking for too much I think. If you leave in a PvP match you basically deserted your team and deserve to be punished for it, end of story.
Yep, ppl are not stupid. Why beating a dead horse? If the first fight is lost, then the other team is stronger. If the other team is stronger then the pvp session will be lost. Why staying when you already know you'll have to BEG the red ones camping you at respawn to let you gain at least the 100 points that will grant you a spoonful of glory after 20 minutes?
The issue here is in the queue system. Many improvements have been suggested by the community. How many of them have been implemented yet?
I almost agree with you. A matchmaking system and a ranked ladder would help alleviate some of the problems, but I guarantee you if there is no leaver penalty people will still try to exploit the system by basically win trading. Also, just because you lost the first fight doesn't mean you are completely out of it. I've been in plenty of games where the other team was stronger in a fight, but we were still able to win just by having better objective control. Just quitting outright as soon as you die one time is *****-made and you deserve to be banned from PvP for a short period to prevent you from just queuing right up again and doing it to another team.
The queue system should pair ppl who pvp because they're forced to with other ppl who also pvp because they're forced to. Very easy to implement, devs, just check that the pvp artifact is missing.
How many ppl would there be in pvp without this artifact?
These are the same who get roflstomped in pugs in pvp and then qq that pvp is so hard after their cakewalk through rubbing salve on little animals, talking to elves and killing boogeymen in pve.
I lol'd hard at this one. You are so right. Player vs. player content offers more adversity and a greater challenge than scripted encounters with mobs. Most players who are good at PvP are even better at PvE because you know exactly what the mobs will do. I use to tell my friends & guildmates in SWG (pre-revamp) and WoW (vanilla - WotLK) if they wanted to get better at PvE to play more PvP content.
0
twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
I agree that there should be increased rewards for sticking it out in a "no-win" situation. I would go so far as to say there should even be an option to switch teams when your destroying another team and they are missing players. THAT would be fun.
I disagree that the reward should be glory or anything like gg coins. Glory is for a starter set of epic gear that is a little better than mul gear, the gg gear is a slight upgrade to that until one finds or buys better t2 gear. Once you have your pvp artifact, a full set of t2 pvp gear, glory and gg coins serve only as a way to generate ad. And not even that much. Most people I know who are hardcore pvpers have long shed their glory/gg gear and play domination only (no horse race) and for fun alone because after a certain point you really can't improve your stats on anything you get through pvp.
It should be Glory, and here's why. Who benefits the most from Glory? New PvP players who haven't been able to gear up. Who spends the most time getting steamrolled in PvP with little to no benefit? New PvP players who haven't been able to gear up. You don't need to motivate/reward the players who are already good and geared in PvP and playing for fun, you have to motivate the new players that aren't geared up, that are struggling against everyone else. You need to give THOSE players a reason to stick around, to make their effort not seem so futile. They will be less likely to leave a match, and less likely to give up PvP all together.
The goal is to get people to stop giving up in the face of insurmountable odds, not make it more lucrative to farm.
There was a game where people liked to cheat a lot. Devs doesn't want to ban half playerbase, so they decide to force people cought on cheating to play with other cheaters. We need same solution for leavers. This will not harm people who get dc'd or need to leave because IRL. I mean, leaver for me are people who constantly leave game that need from them a little bit of effort. If you leave game once in a while, np, you will still play with people who dont leave ever. But if you leave 5 game from 10, then welcome to ELO hell This will not ban people, this will not harm people who got technical issues or IRL.
0
twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited February 2014
Any attempts to punish people who leave PvP should be shelved and re-evaluated after the match making system is in place. There is no point in punishing people based on their attempt to deal with severely lopsided matches in the face of this missing system.
The difference between new/undergeared and established/well geared PvP players is akin to placing lvl 20 characters into PvP with lvl 40 characters. While, technically, they might all be lvl 60, they are not even close in terms of effective level in the game.
What the game needs to do is aknowledge GS as part of level, since a 8.5 GS has the same chance against a 15k GS as a lvl 65 has agains a lvl 90 in any other game, that s the reason why 59- pvp is more fun, or was at least before the mulhorand weapons appeared
The queue system should pair ppl who pvp because they're forced to with other ppl who also pvp because they're forced to. Very easy to implement, devs, just check that the pvp artifact is missing.
How many ppl would there be in pvp without this artifact?
No. The only reason I got the PVP artifact is because it helps in PVE. If I ever decide to PVP again, I would want to do so casually and not go up against hard-core PVPers.
0
twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
What the game needs to do is aknowledge GS as part of level, since a 8.5 GS has the same chance against a 15k GS as a lvl 65 has agains a lvl 90 in any other game, that s the reason why 59- pvp is more fun, or was at least before the mulhorand weapons appeared
Which, I assume will be taken into account with their match making system. It's kind of funny that it wasn't in place to begin with since they do acknowledge gear score for Epic Dungeon entry requirements.
What the game needs to do is aknowledge GS as part of level, since a 8.5 GS has the same chance against a 15k GS as a lvl 65 has agains a lvl 90 in any other game, that s the reason why 59- pvp is more fun, or was at least before the mulhorand weapons appeared
Emphasis added. Yes this is a big problem, and the PVP twinking at lower levels, using weapon enchants in Mulhorand weapons, just contributes to the PVP leaving problem at level 60, because now casual players get roflstomped at low levels too, inhibiting their ability to obtain glory at low levels (and generally turning them off from PVP in the first place). So once they get to level 60, they have to endure more matches ( = more leaving with woefully lopsided matches) in order to get their glory for starter epic gear.
Plus not to mention, it brings out the bad behavior even earlier in a character's progression. If you "own" other players at lowbie PVP just because you have a wallet and can buy a Greater Plague Fire for your level 30 CW, then sorry, it's not your mad skillz that beat the other team.
Comments
I'm going to go back to wow for this one. Back when I played it there were no ranked battlegrounds. Yet if you left you got a deserter debuff. It worked. Yeah new people got facerolled, but they didn't leave, because they knew that they'd slowly get points, get better pvp gear, and improve their skills. Leaving in this game is from people being defeatist and not being willing to ever lose.
People are leaving because they get stomped to the point that they get little to no points, so they are doing nothing but wasting their time. You don't need ranked battle grounds if you have a decent matchmaking system, or reward players in a way that gives them a reason to stick around, even if they lose bad.
I see how someone can be frustrated due to the mechanic of the matchmaking (or lack-thereof) resulting in them being unsettled furthering their emotion... but that emotion doesn't literally move the mouse and clicks the leave party button. that's their choice. when someone is disconnected and ruins the game because of network (server, backbone or user based)... that's another story. Sure, negative reinforcement doesn't fix the issue in many cases but some sort of temporary demerit is used widely for many reasons - as for positive reinforcement, i enjoy the PvP and get owned often, even in pre-mades (we're not PvPers). If we are having a good battle and someone (or 2, some 5-4s are still fun) leaves at 600-450 it literally puts a damper on everyone's (both sides) mood towards the PvP and the one the leaves and disconnects is basically off with little to no repercussions and gets what they want, another equal try to win & possibly acquire more glory.
Nah, people are fine to get better gear and team up with all the best of the players.
Just don't expect the others to play a game through with you.
Every game needs someone to play with, and no one's going to play a game they're destined to get steamrolled and trolled in.
When you gain something, you lose something. When you make premades, you lose people who are willing to play with you.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I've said it before I'll say it again, I'm very casual with pvp, the premades I'm in are just of people that know each other with no forethought of gearing or composition. A team of good players in a pug could win easily. But since no one tries....... Hard to have any respect for them at that point.
I can't help but snicker at the notion that people assume that "you are destined to lose" therefore it's justifiable AND shouldn't upset people (how dare they). I don't think dogma/destiny is programmed into games like these. The only destiny you're fulfilling is not finishing something you've started, like mentioned earlier. unless people are claiming to read the future...? Baddys are bad.
If you think that PvP is perfectly fine without matchmaking, is perfectly fine just the way it is, then I wonder about your motivation, I wonder where your PvP enjoyment comes from. I find nothing enjoyable in partaking in overly lopsided matches from either side, and I assure you, most others do not enjoy it either. Sure, some people with a certain mentality enjoy facing off against lesser competition so they can build up their own ego and tell everyone "how good" they are, and sure, some people are willing to push through and be your punching bag in an effort to gear and improve, but by and large, the current climate of PvP matches will end up pushing people away and turning the PvP community into such a minority that Cryptic won't have much incentive to support it.
If you create a system where people have the ability to face off against others of similar skill and gear, you foster a better community that will cultivate new additions to PvP and help develop their skills and gear instead of turning them off and laughing at the "baddies" when they give up PvP all together in the face of elitist attitudes and sad little people who have to make themselves feel better by facing off against people who pose no challenge.
I would hazard a guess and say that MOST people who enjoy PvP as their main activity in NW would prefer a system where they can enjoy more balanced matches as the norm. I would guess that they WANT a better, stronger, more populated PvP community to foster the spirit of competition, to show the developers that PvP appeals to a larger portion of the overall community and warrants even more attention.
Of course, no, I don't know all the PvP'ers and can only guess based on my limited interaction with people who do nothing but PvP in NW.
If people who actually do something in pvp do get glory points, no matter if they win or loose, and there is a deserter buff, people wouldn't leave that much.
First, expand ways to score points for Glory. Second, take into account certain factors of the match when awarding said Glory.
In rudimentary fashion, it could be something like:
(Glory Awarded(# Players on opposing team at end of match/# Players on your team at end of match)+Glory Awarded(Opponents AVG GS/Personal GS))/2
That gives you more ways to earn Glory and also boots your Glory gained when you fight short handed and against stronger opponents.
That. Since the system is broken it's only natural that people would misuse it, misunderstand it or even completely ignore it. Punishing people for leaving when they're getting badly beat, or getting DC'd, is just unfair. You don't spank a kid who's upset you won't spend any time with him. You spend more time with him. You fix the problem. You don't punish people for acting out when there's a serious issue at hand. You get no respect that way.
I don't boycott pre-mades but I'm very wary of them. Most of the time I find they steamroll n' troll and that's not fun at all. I just stick around to see if a) we can give them an equal fight b) beat them (and I'm courteous when I do) or c) they defeat us but don't act like jerks about it. If they can't be civil I walk away. As was said by someone else, we're not here to be ego-boosters for 12 year olds who spend all day on the game trolling folks.
The solution is simple: match-making and/or tiers. I can tell you my favorite PvPs were the times my team was equally matched with the opposing team and had a close race to the points. Sometimes we won; sometimes they did. In the end it was all good fun. Because, seriously, who has fun being stomped on or steamrolling someone else? I'd worry for myself I ever found either of that fun! XD
Whaaaat? The whole reason there are premades is because people have other people to play the game with. Those who play solo only and maybe q for dungeons, never say a word and leave immediately after are the ones who don't have anyone to play with. These are the same who get roflstomped in pugs in pvp and then qq that pvp is so hard after their cakewalk through rubbing salve on little animals, talking to elves and killing boogeymen in pve.
People who like to play with other people find other people to play with and so guilds and premades are born. I don't know any of these that really enjoy destroying a randomly cobbled together collection of loners. Matchmaking, yes. And we ask, we pretty much demand, a system where people will find actual competition and even a challenge to well coordinated teamwork, aka, playing together.
Jugger Conq GF
....
At the current stage you need to do 1 year of grinding to get the desired 24k glory through the Gauntlegrym PvE event. Just up the Glory received for 5 fire shards loaded into a cart to 50.
I agree that there should be increased rewards for sticking it out in a "no-win" situation. I would go so far as to say there should even be an option to switch teams when your destroying another team and they are missing players. THAT would be fun.
I disagree that the reward should be glory or anything like gg coins. Glory is for a starter set of epic gear that is a little better than mul gear, the gg gear is a slight upgrade to that until one finds or buys better t2 gear. Once you have your pvp artifact, a full set of t2 pvp gear, glory and gg coins serve only as a way to generate ad. And not even that much. Most people I know who are hardcore pvpers have long shed their glory/gg gear and play domination only (no horse race) and for fun alone because after a certain point you really can't improve your stats on anything you get through pvp.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Why would anyone grind gg for a year for the 24k glory they can earn just by doing domination for a few days? Maybe I am missing something.
Jugger Conq GF
....
They were implying that the people that leave hate pvp and are being forced to do so to get the artifact.
By searching for a good match do you mean one your team immediately starts winning? I can tell you right now that's bull****. The problem is that you can immediately queue up again and again until you have the advantage. That's exactly what a lot of these players are doing. If you come into a PvP match rockin' an 8k GS you better expect you're going to get bodied. I was definitely a bit harsh when I said an hour+ debuff, but 15-30 minutes is not asking for too much I think. If you leave in a PvP match you basically deserted your team and deserve to be punished for it, end of story.
I almost agree with you. A matchmaking system and a ranked ladder would help alleviate some of the problems, but I guarantee you if there is no leaver penalty people will still try to exploit the system by basically win trading. Also, just because you lost the first fight doesn't mean you are completely out of it. I've been in plenty of games where the other team was stronger in a fight, but we were still able to win just by having better objective control. Just quitting outright as soon as you die one time is *****-made and you deserve to be banned from PvP for a short period to prevent you from just queuing right up again and doing it to another team.
How many ppl would there be in pvp without this artifact?
I lol'd hard at this one. You are so right. Player vs. player content offers more adversity and a greater challenge than scripted encounters with mobs. Most players who are good at PvP are even better at PvE because you know exactly what the mobs will do. I use to tell my friends & guildmates in SWG (pre-revamp) and WoW (vanilla - WotLK) if they wanted to get better at PvE to play more PvP content.
It should be Glory, and here's why. Who benefits the most from Glory? New PvP players who haven't been able to gear up. Who spends the most time getting steamrolled in PvP with little to no benefit? New PvP players who haven't been able to gear up. You don't need to motivate/reward the players who are already good and geared in PvP and playing for fun, you have to motivate the new players that aren't geared up, that are struggling against everyone else. You need to give THOSE players a reason to stick around, to make their effort not seem so futile. They will be less likely to leave a match, and less likely to give up PvP all together.
The goal is to get people to stop giving up in the face of insurmountable odds, not make it more lucrative to farm.
The difference between new/undergeared and established/well geared PvP players is akin to placing lvl 20 characters into PvP with lvl 40 characters. While, technically, they might all be lvl 60, they are not even close in terms of effective level in the game.
No. The only reason I got the PVP artifact is because it helps in PVE. If I ever decide to PVP again, I would want to do so casually and not go up against hard-core PVPers.
Which, I assume will be taken into account with their match making system. It's kind of funny that it wasn't in place to begin with since they do acknowledge gear score for Epic Dungeon entry requirements.
Emphasis added. Yes this is a big problem, and the PVP twinking at lower levels, using weapon enchants in Mulhorand weapons, just contributes to the PVP leaving problem at level 60, because now casual players get roflstomped at low levels too, inhibiting their ability to obtain glory at low levels (and generally turning them off from PVP in the first place). So once they get to level 60, they have to endure more matches ( = more leaving with woefully lopsided matches) in order to get their glory for starter epic gear.
Plus not to mention, it brings out the bad behavior even earlier in a character's progression. If you "own" other players at lowbie PVP just because you have a wallet and can buy a Greater Plague Fire for your level 30 CW, then sorry, it's not your mad skillz that beat the other team.