Comprehensive Hunter Ranger Feedback

24

Comments

  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    So where is your guide to help eveyone see the light idontuseforumsmu?

    The HR is a wonderfully flexible class that accomodates a lot of play style choices all of which when properly built work very effectively, including the full hubrid option. I have nothing against that play style but I'm yet to be convinced it is the outright best playstyle.
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  • katbozejziemi
    katbozejziemi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Clear the Ground does only 2/3rds of the damage of Split Strike.

    Also, in terms of appearance, the reverse grip with weapons this long and big just looks <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
  • destinyknight
    destinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Clear the Ground does only 2/3rds of the damage of Split Strike.

    Also, in terms of appearance, the reverse grip with weapons this long and big just looks <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.

    I kind of agree with the reverse grip weapons. I think they were going for Gut ripping knives (where the tips are used to rip open prey), the only problem is they are too long. Other than that, I like the rest of the blades. I think they are fine. Its just certain ones that are long and reversed with the tips leaning down and out. (Malaruon or whatever blades from the Rust Iron lock box equipment packs for example)
  • kinsaeda
    kinsaeda Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I'd kind of like to see the main hand hold the blade point up, and the off hand point down. It would be showing that they could attack of defend (deflect) at any time. An offensive/defensive stance.

    It makes sense for the smaller knives, but personally I want real swords. My Rangers always dual wielded ******* swords.
  • destinyknight
    destinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    kinsaeda wrote: »
    I'd kind of like to see the main hand hold the blade point up, and the off hand point down. It would be showing that they could attack of defend (deflect) at any time. An offensive/defensive stance.

    It makes sense for the smaller knives, but personally I want real swords. My Rangers always dual wielded ******* swords.

    they do this already. At least with the blades you get from the iron lock box equipment box. One hand holds the blade forward with the tip facing up, the other hand holds the blade backwards with the tip facing down. Pretty much a offensive/defensive stance like that.
  • linknigri
    linknigri Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited January 2014

    -Do you guys agree with my feedback? Disagree?

    -What would you suggest to improve the Hunter Rangers?


    Have you run into the same dodging issues I have?
    [/URL].

    Your feedback is aweasome I'll say some more feedback here, I'd like to ask for you to add the ones that you like to your post, as I'm to lazy to create another post of my own and as most of the people once the post has lots of coments wont be able to see them^^ Ps: feel free to use your own words to describle my feedback.

    Before I start, about the dodge question, the dodge as it is, is terrible, it should allow the ranger to stay more time imune to damage, u really cant apropriate use the melle without being able to avoid damage and yes I've experienced all the issues u talked about, but I think most of the problem with the HR dodge is the time that it stays imune, it seams to be a lot less than any other class.

    Anyway, you covered every change I'd like to see at the hunter ranger. I think everything that u said should be done with not exception.

    But there is one thing I'd like to state, something has to be changed on the ''aimed shot power'', that is true, but that cannot be removing the interrupt efect from basic atacks, it would be an extreme overpowered atack if that happens, but your other changes to the power are well stated, maybe a 70%/60%/50%/40% damage reduction to the power damage based on how mutch u charged the atack would be apropriate.


    Also, on the ''rapid shot/rapid strike'' I would be ok with this power if rapid strike had a huge buff like +25% damage bonus, I do think it would be ok if only the melle part was changed, it would already make it as usefull as the other bread and butter powers of the other classes, and it would give u another reason to go in melle, right now the only at-will that works well in melle is the ''aimed strike'' and that is not something u will be spaming like an at-will is suposed to be.



    So moving to my feedback, before saying them, I'd like to state that maybe it does not need for all of them to become true, but if at least some of them come true, than maybe the ranger could be less underpowered:

    Aspect of the lone wolf': maybe there could be a minimun of 5% mitigation bonus, so this power does not render useless on dungeons, or maybe it could add some deflect chance that is not able to be riped off.

    Aspect of the falcon: 5% more damage when u are in the extra range.

    Aspect of the pack: all the classes that take advantage of combat advantage damage already has their mechanisms of having it up 100% of the time, like CW and TR, also its easy to stay on oposite sides, this power is useless and pathetic. It should be changed to something different. How about it adding survival to a party instead of damage? how about an 2% mitigation bonus for every friend inside some feet radius close to the HR, this would be amazing, if u have the whole ''pack'' close to the HR they would have a flat 10% extra mitigation. But whatever, if u do not like the mitigation idea, than change it to damage, but this power has to be revised.

    Combat feat ''elusive hunter'': this should work on ranged stance as well, HR is suposed to be versatile and combat feats are not as versitile as the archer tree, also it is a lot less interesting power than people normaly think it is, most of the time even the melle ranger will spent holding its bow, the ones that try to mix the 2 trees does not even consider taking this power, I think they should, I think this power is lackbusting, I see some people saying that the HR has acess to huge deflection, but that is a big lie, a GWF and a TR will still have mutch more deflection chance and this power working only as melle, well, they are not working at all, on dungeons u will be using the bow 90% of the time, on the pvp u will use the melle till u use all your encounters and them escape in to ranged again, so if u think about it, if u really know how to play the HR or at least if u take a closer look to how the majority of people are playing the HR right now, than maybe u will understand that this feat is worthless. It is really bad in any playstyle, since no play style will ignore the bow.

    Commanding shot: plz, plz take out that huge casting time, no one uses this power, it lacks damage and its melle part is a defense buff, in fact, its the worst defense buff that we have, there is no reason for it to has that huge casting time.

    Blade storm: When in melle, 25% chance of doing extra 15% damage on lvl 3? Really? An mathematicaly 3.75% on only the melle stance? humm Buff it?


    Fox cunning: The CC thing, yeah, it is intended. And I agree, making the whole party evading CC its really good, but it should make at least the HR imune to it, I mean all our buffs already affect people less than it affect us, this should not be an exception. Hr should be able to evade CC with it and the rest of the party should be able to evade as well if the HR has the capstone feat of the nature tree.
  • umaeko
    umaeko Member Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    My feedback on the Hunter Ranger:

    Animations:
    • I dislike how my Wood Elf female Hunter Ranger stares at the ground the way she does. The level-stare she had in the straighter pose of the Character Selection screen is enviably much better.
    • I'll echo the distate expressed over the position of the bow when stowed in the back. Firstly, there's a way to stow a bow behind one's back, and it's usually done by strapping the bow by the side of the quiver. Secondly, the way the bow is positioned makes it very easy in combat stance to have the bow clip with my character's head in ways that I frankly think could be easily avoided by changing how much the bow leans forward in the back.
    • There's a lot of clipping going on with skirt portions of the armor, and capes. I'm kind of baffled that the cape - by default - isn't made to flow down further enough to not clip on the skirted-portions of armor in the rear.

    Equipment:
    • The Iliyanbruen armor pieces (both Ancestral and Fabled) look fantastic, but I'm disappointed to admit that the same does not go for the weapons.
    • The bows have very appealing inventory icon showing gracefully arched bowstaves that hint at the same kind of intricate elven detailing the armor have. But the game models fall down from that benchmark, instead being bulkily ornate as if the artist thought that the bigger, elaborate and more chandelier-like the bow, the better (hint: less is more). For that matter, the Ancestral Iliyanbruen bow also has some texture problems, as if the texture was applied in its insides rather than its surface (it seems see-through, but you can see the texture it's supposed to show on the opposite side).
    • The blades aren't much better. We get art for nice sabers in the inventory, and what we get are Trickster Rogue Daggers! Please fix them.
    • I've heard people expressing it is unfortunate that blades don't get visibly affected by weapon enchantments in the same way the bow is.
      (I'm ambivalent to that, though, since Perfect Vorpal is having a significant role in killing my eyesight)

    Shifting:
    I think, from my previous experience playing Trickster Rogues and Control Wizard, that I understand how to dodge. This said, when I dodge with my Hunter Rangers at times my experience dictates is appropriate, the game does not reward either my knowledge, alertness or savvy with success. Shifting repositions me, but I sustain damage.

    Suffice to say, I agree with those saying that the dodge window attached to shifting doesn't function adequately.

    Powers:
    A lot of powers with the Hunter Ranger made me feel like using them at the right time ought to help me dodge, and it doesn't happen. Mechanically, I get it. Visually and viscerally, it's a bit offputting.

    Examples of that include:
    -1. Using Maurauder's Escape to escape a red zone, only to end up still being hit by the attack even if visually I've left said zone.
    -2. Using Rain of Sword to jump aloft, over a monster swinging a weapon at me. Visually, I've felt inclined to time it for it, visually clearly jumped way above the attack, and by the time I've landed the attack has passed... but in the end I was still hit.

    I like Split Shot (surprise surprise), and I kind of agree that it feels the best because there are no better alternatives. In relation to that...
    Rapid Shot is an At-Will I like because it's my most comfortable 'melee attack'. But the anged version really needs to either be even faster, or more damaging. Aimed shot isn't often used by me because of its interruptability; I kind of wish it was more like how Split Shot/Storm Pillar functions: partial charge, partial reward, no interruption.
    I don't know what to say of the Paragon electric arrow or the electric spin - I know people swear by the melee version. Personally, It's a solidly crappy power in my eyes.

    Feats:
    I'd like Forestwalk to apply its movement speed boost when using Fox Cunning and applying Dodge to my allies and I. It feels wierd on my Nature build that it doesn't.

    I don't feel that the release of Commanding Shot and Hawk Shot is swift enough. The one-shot nature of Hawk Shot makes it feel unintuitive to exploit for me and the rest of my group - I might value a tangible damage buff over a duration more.

    Performance:
    I initially went for a very mobile build that was primarily an archer, but easily went hybrid.
    Rapid Shot/Split Shot were my At-Wills. Encounters were Marauder's Escape/Hindering Shot/Constricting Arrow. Class Features were Aspect of the Snake/Stormstep. Dailies were Disruptive Shot/Forest Meditation.

    With that build, I could spray arrows with split shot, then slow down enemies coming at me, charge at them and let loose with very wide circling slashes before dashing out, firing another hindering arrow, using disruptive shot to attack and lower my cooldowns and then fire another Hindering Shot.

    Not much outside of dungeons stood up to that. It was a very active set of combos I could unleash, and I found it rather fun. It also synergized very well with Bow Mastery.

    ...

    Then the MoA nerf came. It didn't break my build, but made it less enticing. I also discovered how being a amage dealer didn't have me stand out in that role. At best, I was mediocre faced to others, and that was while using my Perfect Vorpal enchant at that. And those low average-to-low Paingiver scores, despite my drawing a lot of aggro.

    Wanting to gainfully contribute, I tried out the Nature build, investing almost all my feat points in it (the only exception being Ghostwalker from the archery tree for better stamina regen). Using Stag Heart, Oak Skin and Fox Cunning made a significant difference for my dungeon parties, and my damage still placed me at least 4th in Paingiver (whereas I placed 3rd at best with aostly DPS archery build).

    I was able to make a difference, and be more pivotal to battles, though the demands (particularily on my fingers) of being alert, renewing my buffs and being timely about their application gets very grueling in hour-long runs (or attempts at multiple runs during DDs). It's a lotmore effort than it looks like compared to conditionally using attack powers.

    Effectively, the Nature ranger is a lot like a MMORPG Bard, or a Paladin with beneficial auras. I actually like this, as it lends to the idea that rangers are guides, and know how to deal with dangers from monsters to hostile environments. On the other hand, I'd really like the button mashing to be reduced (perhaps by toggles?) as well as the awareness of what a Nature ranger can achieve to be increased.

    I still use my former powers for doing my PvE dailies - the cooldowns are longer in general, but it feels more self-sufficient/less awkward/more comfortably dynamic. But for Dungeons, I'm pretty solidly using Stag Heart/Oak Skin/Fox Cunning.
  • savrai
    savrai Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I disagree with the vast majority of these posts. We have a power that you can half charge, keep aimed shot as is. As for allowing damage to NOT break the attack, it's a high risk- high reward power and it's not for everyone or every situation. Keep it as is.

    The sign of a well made class is that different people will say that different play styles are the absolute best. I am loving my 100% ranged Ranger and it's the only way I could envision playing it.

    I like the dodge mechanic and have learned to use it appropriately. Sometimes it's the Indian, not the arrow. If you're taking damage or shifting into splats or mis-timing, maybe it's not the shift that's the problem.

    Most of the complaints or calls for change are seeming to come from people not wanting to adapt their play style to how the game and powers currently work.
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  • bananachef
    bananachef Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Would like to see Nature's Feat tree changed. Nearly all of the Nature feats affect your Encounters, forcing you to run these specific Encounters in order to take advantage of your points. Both Melee & Archery have more versatile options in terms of Power-choice because their feats buff intrinsic aspects of the character.

    Honestly it's so unlike every other feat tree in the game. Other classes have a small number of feats dedicated to buffing Powers. These are those feats that give a bonus affect to MULTIPLE powers (2 or 3), giving you flexibility in Power-choice. On the other hand barring the Tier 1 feats, every single Nature feat is dedicated to only one Encounter.
    2 GWFS, 3 TRs, 2 GFs, 1 HR, 1 CW
  • destinyknight
    destinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    savrai wrote: »
    I disagree with the vast majority of these posts. We have a power that you can half charge, keep aimed shot as is. As for allowing damage to NOT break the attack, it's a high risk- high reward power and it's not for everyone or every situation. Keep it as is.

    The sign of a well made class is that different people will say that different play styles are the absolute best. I am loving my 100% ranged Ranger and it's the only way I could envision playing it.

    I like the dodge mechanic and have learned to use it appropriately. Sometimes it's the Indian, not the arrow. If you're taking damage or shifting into splats or mis-timing, maybe it's not the shift that's the problem.

    Most of the complaints or calls for change are seeming to come from people not wanting to adapt their play style to how the game and powers currently work.

    I kind of agree with you here. But there is definitely something legitimately wrong with the shift ability. Its been proven.

    It works sometimes, but not all the time. In the same scenarios, you get different results where that just isnt supposed to happen.
  • ambisinisterr
    ambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited January 2014
    savrai wrote: »
    I like the dodge mechanic and have learned to use it appropriately. Sometimes it's the Indian, not the arrow. If you're taking damage or shifting into splats or mis-timing, maybe it's not the shift that's the problem.

    The only time this is accurate is when people complain about the distance.

    The dodge mechanic is outright broken. It's not mistiming. Mistiming would still result in both damage and CC being applied and not one or the other.

    The issues with dodging are unique to the Hunter Ranger. It just doesn't always work.
    It does work most of the time. It doesn't work all of the time.

    I actually love the shift mechanic. It perfectly suits my playstyle and I wish it was on all of my characters. It just needs to actually function 100% of the time and right now there's plenty of proof it doesn't.
  • masterjewstar
    masterjewstar Member Posts: 563
    edited January 2014
    Yep, and you shouldn't be dodging into splats anyway you should be dodging away. Its so short a dodge that trying to time it going into a splat and expecting it to work 100% is unrealistic even by fantasy standards anyway.
  • destinyknight
    destinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Yep, and you shouldn't be dodging into splats anyway you should be dodging away. Its so short a dodge that trying to time it going into a splat and expecting it to work 100% is unrealistic even by fantasy standards anyway.

    The very same thing can and will happen shifting OUT of the spat as well as into the splat. Shifting in or out does that matter, that fact it doesnt work 100% at all is the issue. The fact that you dodge at a point thats supposed to make you invunerable for half a second doesnt work 100% of the time, and that doesnt work with inconsistent results no matter what the case shows there is a problem.
  • ambisinisterr
    ambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited January 2014
    Dodging into splats occurs in sea of red fights quite often.
    You dodge out of one splat and into another.

    I noticed most of the issues when in the Dwarf King Crypts dealing with the golem splats because it is extremely common to get surrounded by red. I don't normally try to dodge into splats but it is inevitable to occur at times.

    As for inconsistent dodging...
    It is one thing if that was intended and every class had a chance to fail a dodge...
    but that argument doesn't hold up when all other classes have a consistent result when dodging. :p
    Heck at least with the GWF I know if I am in a splat I will still get hit while sprinting.

    This isn't asking for mountains. This is asking for the same result to occur every time. They could add a chance to fail and I would be fine with that as long as the mechanic does as advertised.
    As of now dodging is advertised as no damage and immunity to CC during the animation.
  • leillanna
    leillanna Member Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I play as a hybrid ranged/melee ranger mostly in combat spec with 5/5 in black arrow for extra crit severity on ranged attacks. I am constantly shifting between ranged and melee. This is the play style I find most appealing. That said I would like to completely remove split shot from my bar but I can't. I would like to see electric shots damage increased by 10% only, give it a slow and speed the animation up a bit. This would bring a bit more utility instead of just raw damage. Rapid strike/rapid shot need a 25% damage increase. Aimed shot/aimed strike are perfect IMHO. Foxes cunning needs to have CC immunity put back into it. Rain of arrows is amazing for damage but the radius is just a little to small. Rain of swords is laughable however. Change it to single target burst skill. Split the sky and thorn ward are also good as they are. The dailies unless you're using storm step/ghost forest trick which will be fixed are not worth using, ever at all at any time. The passives are all quite good except blade storm needs a significant buff to use in place of aspect of the serpent. I agree with a lot more of what others have said. The class IS fun to play but it needs work. I can only assume and hope the devs have been collecting data since the class went in and have been working on tweaks and fixes.
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  • vengefulfury
    vengefulfury Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Meh i do that as well.
  • cbrowne0329
    cbrowne0329 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I run a combat ranger.

    I tend to run the following:

    Disrupting Shot, Forest Ghost
    Aspect of the Serpent, Twin Blade
    Fox, Binding Arrow, Hindering Shot
    Rapid Shot, Split Shot

    At times I will switch out Thorn Ward for Hindering (holding a point in PVP, though not often), Aimed for Split Shot (against bosses)

    Although it is not the optimal path, I found that this rotation works best for me.

    I love the double attacks. and the extra stacks because I switch stances all the time.
    If I launch Fox at a running attacker , I've seen it hit for as much as 4K per hit, or up to about 15K total.

    Bindings strong grasping roots is great for pinning attackers or runners at hits up to 3K normally.

    Hindering shot hits anywhere from 1.5K to 4K and has 3 charges... weak grasping roots is not really useful, but in melee it has strong grasping roots, which I will then use Fox Shift, Ghost, then switch back to Archery. Combo works really well. PVP and PVE.


    Here is my thing... I know the rotation does not output the most damage, but I believe it gives me the best survivability. Plus I like the unorthodox play... especially in PVP as it throws people off. For instance, I use a Greater Bronzewood... whereas most people will use Vorpal. It doesn't do as much damage, but being able to have higher damage through SF, Unstoppable, and ITC is priceless.

    Rapid shot... well is not that rapid. I would prefer seeing a 3 to 5 shot burst (to be tested for balance) with a .5 to .7 second recharge time between uses. It will make it more useful for runners, and wouldn't really require nerfing anything or increasing the damage.

    Split shot I don't think is OP... the aggro it generates balances the risk/reward of it.

    Electric Shot is pathetic.... I can't justify the melee combat damage to replace Rapid Shot.

    Aimed definitely needs an interrupt/release-weaker. Having nothing only makes it useful in boss fights, ONLY if you are lucky to not get aggro from adds.

    I play every class. So I like my ranger, but he definitely needs some boost. No nerfs to any powers though. Just adjustments to the way they work (e.g Aimed) - not damage increases.... EXCEPT electric shock (ugh I hate this power).
  • masterjewstar
    masterjewstar Member Posts: 563
    edited January 2014
    Well to each their own; I don't usually get hit by splats and I fight up close when it suits me e.g. prone and hindering then get back some stamina e.g. steel breeze which ties with constrict. Then start lighting them all up with clear the ground using split strike to attack through splats or to strike first. You've gotta kinda ease your ranger into melee continue hitting and knowing what they are doing and when to dodge and gtfoutta there while doing it.

    Keep dodging through them if close enough behind them time the attack and you might just dodge 2 splats instead of being hit by three if you're in melee range or just using melee you'll find 2 dodges will get you out of most splats in ranged and I'm only set up for ranged because we have close to 5-7 and it regens pretty fast.

    Yeah sure, if theres 100 adds then thats a fact of life for every one not just the ranger.
    Yes, I know split shot is so much better and I agree that clear the ground doesn't hit as hard as rapid strike; but its just as fast and you can move while doing it. If you're surrounded it has a better chance to proc certain feats from the trees, equipment, and boons and will hit them more than rapid again.

    But if like some people do gather together to focus someone you can ruin their day ES and splitshot or even with clear the ground, dodge, split shot hits as hard as chill strike when defense is debuffed and you crit. Electric shot hits 5 people for more area than the single target on rapid; and also crits independently per hit.

    It can't be that much more weaker for melee's because its only 20%; If they are all the way back. Commanding shot will do the debuff I was talking about and against a gwf who has yet to be hit, it will make them less effective because its not strong enough to trigger unstoppable by itself.

    Rapid shot strike is obviously for dpsing 1 target so use it when you plan on being alone in pvp or when fighting bosses and you don't want to draw too much attention from adds in that scenario unless you plan on kiting.

    I also have a decent amount of deflect; 16% and 27% damage resistance and Boars Hide is awesome.

    You have to time the dodge not with the splats but when they stop moving and watch them if it gets too hectic leave kite them for a while wait for some one else to take if any ones available.

    Bugs I've seen
    I also agree though that sometimes it is man I should have dodged it. But it's also the same way for some of the other classes sometimes. It's a new mechanic and it needs to be maintained and looked at carefully.

    I also would like ES looked at for timing. When the arrow leaves the bow and if you dodge before it does damage, it cancels the attack could you look at that too, It's not a huge deal. It's part of the reasons ES has so terrible looking damage; it also doesn't increase damage through rank ups it like others do just aoe gets bigger and I hit 1-1.7k on crit with it occasionally.

    Boars Charge also misses completely even when it touches a non-immune and does no damage. Close up it will miss going past them.

    Maybe boars charge could have the same mechanic as takedown for when the game messes it up, obviously not if its dodged or out ranged; either or.

    Oakskin's heal can be deflected.

    Also if you're a drow your buffs when they apply they can also apply dark fire to all applied.

    I also have not a problem with disrupt its fast it doesn't stop them from moving it just stops them from doing what they are in the middle of doing.
  • query523
    query523 Member Posts: 1,515 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Agree with most of what I've read here but I had some other thoughts on split-shot, aimed shot, and rapid shot. first I did some rather extensive testing with a buddy, a stopwatch, and trade of blades dummies. On 30 second trials I was getting comparable DPs from both. Maybe it is because I am using a crit heavy Orc build? But if I am getting the same DPs from two attacks and one of them can: re-target, is un-interuptable, and starts damaging sooner the choice is pretty simple. Split shot can spam damage around the room like crazy. But I don't think a flat damage comparison is reasonable. I almost never spam it except when aggregating trash mobs. Because SS arrgos anything that was not occupied. This is not only bad for me (squishy right?) because I can't fulfill my role if I am kiting uglies. It's bad for my team because it stretches them out and makes it hard on the tank and CW. I tend to lay tight cones on mobs I know are occupied between encounter timers (or whenever the singu drops/ I see a big pile of Xs around my GF). I mean unless I am soloing because I'm going to have to kill them all myself anyway. I mean unless I am missing something?
  • rodrant64
    rodrant64 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    As much as I want to love aimed shot for the pure damage it's capable of, I keep going back to rapid shot for single-target. It's dependable single target DPS that can't be interrupted. It's melee is also the best, at least single-target wise, and I use melee a little more than most HR's. One day I'll make a combat HR and see how well that goes for me.

    But since switching from an archery build (loved it for the DPS) to a nature build (love it even more for it's utility in helping out PvE parties), it's rapid shot all the way for me. I'm defensive-based with a lot in defense, deflect and regen, so 90% of the time I'm on adds and using split shot to generate aggro so single-target damage becomes less important anyways. Rapid shot does just fine for the few moments that I need to single-target enemies, plus rapid strike's underrated as far as it's damage.
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  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Aimed is indeed a situational power. By default I don't run it but whenever I need to maximise single target DPS (ie whenever I'm on boss) I always run it, with either Split or Rapid as the other power depending on what will be needed at times.

    Combine Aimed with Thorn Ward and Commanding and even without a CW using HV you can produce 30k plus crits with little trouble. Rapid just doesn't combine to produce that level of damage in that time. That said I'm a fan of Rapid and agree it is undervalued because it does more than just fast damage.
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  • arcmoon99
    arcmoon99 Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    A very well put together analysis. After all the HR is a fairly new classes that should undergo many changes. Like all classes did the first few months this game was released. I hope to see most if not all these changes added.
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  • whitupiggu
    whitupiggu Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    My HR is only 35 but from what little experience I have with them it seems either the ranged stance ability is good or the melee stance ability is good. Never both. To me it seems one tries to mimic the other but does it very poorly. Which means if you want a good ranged ability you are going to basically have a useless ability on your bar if you switch to melee stance. I think the ranged stance and melee version should compliment each other instead of trying to be a poor copy.
  • elminster
    elminster Member Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    It gets better. Split the Sky has a decent melee power called Throw Caution that boosts your attack power by 10% at the expense of defense. Not very effective for Combat rangers, but for Archery I use it religiously.

    Also you have Fox's Cunning (guaranteed to dodge the next incoming attack) which when swapped to combat becomes Fox Strike. This skill hits five times, splitting the strikes between up to 5 targets in its 18' range with a maximum of three strikes per target. It also has the added bonus of slowing the target(s) for a short time and giving you a 3 second invulnerability frame. I'd argue this to be the single strongest melee skill in a ranger's arsenal, potentially totaling over 15k between the strikes on my Archery build. Combat build would be even higher.
  • cbrowne0329
    cbrowne0329 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    query523 wrote: »
    Agree with most of what I've read here but I had some other thoughts on split-shot, aimed shot, and rapid shot. first I did some rather extensive testing with a buddy, a stopwatch, and trade of blades dummies. On 30 second trials I was getting comparable DPs from both. Maybe it is because I am using a crit heavy Orc build? But if I am getting the same DPs from two attacks and one of them can: re-target, is un-interuptable, and starts damaging sooner the choice is pretty simple. Split shot can spam damage around the room like crazy. But I don't think a flat damage comparison is reasonable. I almost never spam it except when aggregating trash mobs. Because SS arrgos anything that was not occupied. This is not only bad for me (squishy right?) because I can't fulfill my role if I am kiting uglies. It's bad for my team because it stretches them out and makes it hard on the tank and CW. I tend to lay tight cones on mobs I know are occupied between encounter timers (or whenever the singu drops/ I see a big pile of Xs around my GF). I mean unless I am soloing because I'm going to have to kill them all myself anyway. I mean unless I am missing something?

    Spaces between to make it easier to read. Other than that you are spot on.
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Biggest HR issue at the moment is agro.

    The more I tinker and play in Epic dungeons the more I see this issue.

    Even with a CW who is out dpsing the HR via AoE attacks (with no threat reduction feats) the HR consistently takes all the agro. This suggests their threat needs to be adjusted. I understand the thought behind the high threat on Split Shot (the main threat generator) but when it is taking agro off another AoE class that is doing more damage there is a problem.
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  • zomd
    zomd Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Biggest HR issue at the moment is agro.

    The more I tinker and play in Epic dungeons the more I see this issue.

    Even with a CW who is out dpsing the HR via AoE attacks (with no threat reduction feats) the HR consistently takes all the agro. This suggests their threat needs to be adjusted. I understand the thought behind the high threat on Split Shot (the main threat generator) but when it is taking agro off another AoE class that is doing more damage there is a problem.

    Yeah, aggro is a problem. I try to use Forest Ghost as an escape, which sometimes works. The problem is the sticky animation time. By the time it fires, I'm usually getting hit. It should come with a short evade that overlaps with the animation. As it is, using it feels like more of a gamble than it should be.
  • ambisinisterr
    ambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited January 2014
    zomd wrote: »
    Yeah, aggro is a problem. I try to use Forest Ghost as an escape, which sometimes works. The problem is the sticky animation time. By the time it fires, I'm usually getting hit. It should come with a short evade that overlaps with the animation. As it is, using it feels like more of a gamble than it should be.

    I really like that idea.

    I too find Forest Ghost is pretty unpredictable as an escape/defensive maneuver.
  • ximae
    ximae Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    Also you have Fox's Cunning (guaranteed to dodge the next incoming attack) which when swapped to combat becomes Fox Strike. This skill hits five times, splitting the strikes between up to 5 targets in its 18' range with a maximum of three strikes per target. It also has the added bonus of slowing the target(s) for a short time and giving you a 3 second invulnerability frame. I'd argue this to be the single strongest melee skill in a ranger's arsenal, potentially totaling over 15k between the strikes on my Archery build. Combat build would be even higher.

    I hope u mean 15k with the 5 strikes, not 15k on single target (3 strikes) coz if its the later im gona respec out of combat( im hybrid really) . I might be doing a little more damage than that on single target but not much more and a little more if moc procs on some of the hits. Could also be that u have a better vorpal, mine is just a normal.

    but that takes me to another issue, hybrid.... alot of times i get outdpsed by pure ranged, not by much if gear is at similar level, which makes me rethink my build. Im not sure about going all in till the end of the tree till master of combat or just taking correcting aim and critting more as I really dont see snipers aim very usefull to a hybrid as ur really most of the times in close/mid range.

    really I use melee more for the burst and moc procs can add some dps our ****ty damage blades make it somewhat underwhelming... so it really only adds decent dps if its a melee aoe like hindering strrike or clear the ground/split strike where it can proc multiple times in one hit.... and using melee at wills is already cutting dps, so i just tend to use them on bunched up mobs to proc the grandwarden set bonus when ive got roa pouring on them.

    In conclusion they really need to get the damage in the offhands pretty much higher (or push up the power/skill modifier up) to make melee more viable or desireable to use in pve, as right now melee atwills are too weak to use insetad of split shot.... same goes for the encounters (specially ros) with the exception of fox, which is strong coz it hits many times not because of how hard a single hit is.

    So in the end i really just use fox shift and hindering (i like it coz of the bugged strong grasping roots and no target limit aoe pretty usefull in singus.. not coz it hits really hard) and rain of blades when i get confused and think im in ranged stance Xd.

    What would really be cool though is if they changed rain of blades to bleed like aimed strike( but aoe) then it would be usefull even if it strikes like an at will.... but right now its pathetic and a waste of animation time coz even that is too long and ud be better off using an atwill instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by zomd

    Yeah, aggro is a problem. I try to use Forest Ghost as an escape, which sometimes works. The problem is the sticky animation time. By the time it fires, I'm usually getting hit. It should come with a short evade that overlaps with the animation. As it is, using it feels like more of a gamble than it should be.

    I really like that idea.

    I too find Forest Ghost is pretty unpredictable as an escape/defensive maneuver.

    yeah i take a ton of aggro too i had battlewise feated before but it really wasnt doing much, so i just respecced out of it.

    And tottally agree with forest ghost, the animation roots u long enough that if it was an oh **** button press ur probably dead by when u stealth.. also sometimes getting hit in the animation cancels the stealth and leaves u with a cooldown.
  • kazexkumo
    kazexkumo Member Posts: 46
    edited January 2014
    i m a Hybrid HR. I have problem/issues with Forest Ghost animation.
    When casting it and got stunned by something, it will leave cooldown and the stealth gone.
    its really annoying.
    Fox shift need some more improvement, sometime when casting it , can get interrupted/stunned by something else then leave a cooldown, should put immunity in that.
    Marauder escape can get stunned/interrupted while casting it. pls put immunity too.
    Marauder charge sometimes not casted when casting to enemy that suddenly out of range, leaving my HR behind. Shouldn't it just chase all the way?