tr new paragon

ikeepit3hunna · November 2013

Who is going to use the new paragon for tr? U lose se and itc but that could be replaced with bas and the new prone daily. Running high con int rolls and going silveries for offence slots/radiant defence slots. You could be a very "tanky" tr and still have high dmg from dots. And with perma stealth its almost posible to change gear/ encounter setups mid fight making you extremely adaptable to who your fighting. You could stall out any class efficiently except dc, still be able to kill cw/gf/tr.

godlysoul1 · November 2013

ikeepit3hunna wrote: »

Who is going to use the new paragon for tr? U lose se and itc but that could be replaced with bas and the new prone daily. Running high con int rolls and going silveries for offence slots/radiant defence slots. You could be a very "tanky" tr and still have high dmg from dots. And with perma stealth its almost posible to change gear/ encounter setups mid fight making you extremely adaptable to who your fighting. You could stall out any class efficiently except dc, still be able to kill cw/gf/tr.

Well itc is one of the big reasons people don't want to go with this path. 100% deflect chance or straight damage immunity for a duration is as tanky as it gets :P I have heard a lot of bad things about first impressions on this path, so I haven't tested it out myself yet, but it seems like it could have potential. I most likely wouldn't go with it though just because of itc loss.

munkey81 · November 2013

ikeepit3hunna wrote: »

Who is going to use the new paragon for tr? U lose se and itc but that could be replaced with bas and the new prone daily. Running high con int rolls and going silveries for offence slots/radiant defence slots. You could be a very "tanky" tr and still have high dmg from dots. And with perma stealth its almost posible to change gear/ encounter setups mid fight making you extremely adaptable to who your fighting. You could stall out any class efficiently except dc, still be able to kill cw/gf/tr.

I'm usually pretty good about building a good build. But I had no luck at all on ptr making anything worthwhile with this lackluster piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> idea of a Path they have given us.

What I didn't try was the perma stealth route.

I spose it could potentially be very good.

But honestly, I would rather kick myself in the nutz then play a perma stealth TR. I'm completely turned off by it, and wouldn't have any fun at all playing it.

I'm honestly completely pi$$ed at Cryptic for how lazy they were with this upcoming change.

I don't know about you guys but when I think of a different Path. I'm thinking something totally different. In every single game I have ever played in mmo's since UO, a different Path was almost night and day difference, to another Path.

This is just swapping some abilities, for some different abilities.

I really feel ripped off =/

Oh but guess what!!.......we get more cool Zen store stuff!:mad:

godlysoul1 · November 2013

I definitely feel the same way. When I first heard there was going to be new paths I was excited because I thought that meant entirely all new abilities/feats for each class. Only swapping out a few skills/feats doesn't really do it for me. I am glad that they are at least trying to expand it though, but I feel like they lost some potential with this upcoming update. This is especially true with how they decided to simply switch gwf and gf paths. Yeah, they are both melee warrior type classes, and they should be similar, but that seems like just taking the easy way out instead of catering to each class what would be better instead of just throwing it what they already had made. I've never bought anything cosmetic from the zen store unless it was to re-sell for profit. However, I have spent some decent money just transferring real money to AD so I could buy gear/enchants. I have no idea why they keep wasting their time with new zen cosmetics. Hell, I would rather pay for expansion updates or a small subscription fee and have them focus on the content rather than see more useless cosmetics.

wiserwithage · November 2013

It really depends on your character build and whether you're talking about soloing PvE, dungeon PvE, or PvP.

For my TR, I'm going Whisperknife the moment it becomes available. The character was made about a week before Whisperknife was announced, so I'm not emotionally tied to the Master Infiltrator line. My goal was to build a PvE character that was highly mobile and able to debuff things. To accomplish this, I'm using the Scoundrel feat line.

Even though I'm not a perma-stealth build, Whisperknife is really attractive. The combo of using the Hateful Knives daily power and the Seething Knives feat (which is going to replace the ITC option in the Scoundrel line) will be very useful to any TR, regardless of PvE or PvP. I also like the idea of being able to increase the dps output of my Whirlwind of Blades (daily), Blitz (encounter), and Cloud of Steel (at-will).

For my own build, Whisperknife is exactly what I needed to make slight tweaks. However most people will likely find that Whisperknife doesn't give them everything that they were wanting.

ikeepit3hunna · November 2013

Perma has its perks though. Perma tr vs pugs makes you feel like a ninja more then a glasscanon rogue haha. And idk how good it will actualy be yet I think it will be a nice change up. The metagame gets so stale with everyone running the same dammed build

munkey81 · November 2013

ikeepit3hunna wrote: »

Perma has its perks though. Perma tr vs pugs makes you feel like a ninja more then a glasscanon rogue haha. And idk how good it will actualy be yet I think it will be a nice change up. The metagame gets so stale with everyone running the same dammed build

I agree 100%. That's why I'm extremely crabby about this new path...

I'm going to keep messing around on PTR with dif builds and hopefully come up with something that suits ME. I'm not looking to revolutionize some awesome uber build, I just want to stay at the level of PvP I am(while getting better of course), and have a different option of a build that is still a lot of fun to play. Which of course is my end goal, I want to have fun. I don't care if Im the bestest ever, I just want to have fun doing it

However. What I am excited about, is these artifacts. With my current build and a fiew changes, I have something up my sleeve that will make my TR twice as Tanky as I am now, and increase the DPS output by a gross amount. So atleast I have that to look forward too

todesfaelle · November 2013

I managed to make a ranged PVE permastealth out of it. Has high room for error but the DPS is even more gimped. Might add it on my guide one of these days. But yeah, overall, the path is uninteresting. So far, based on my tests, I believe the only build that can properly support a Whisperknife are x3lade permas. It's possible to make a full-ranged TR, but without immunities, they will just get ripped apart by HV CW's for PVP.

beckylunatic · November 2013

I'm making one because it fits a character concept, more than because I think it'll be the best. Already got four rogues, might as well throw another one in the stable.

Technically he's made, but hasn't reached paragon level yet.

stabbath · November 2013

I have 3 rogues, 2 lvl 60, so I plan on trying out the new path with one of them.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

After looking on preview I realised how nice the new stuff is. Losing itc is bad but the new encounter is cc break which servrs the same purpose. Shocking is worse then the new daily new ranged atwill is better then cos

setherio · December 2013

I have 3 TR's at 60, each for different purpose and style. I've been debating on which I will change to Whisperknife and have also been spending a fair amount of time trying out various Whisperknife paths.

My 3 TR's:
Setherio (Tiefling): Hybrid TR - While not "permastealth TR", can maintain stealth well enough and deal a fair amount of damage. Is able to solo various epic dungeons and can clear Epic PK (*LEGIT* not "running to campfires") in under 1 hour solo.

Kira (Halfling): Powerhouse TR - While lacking some long-time survival, she can makes up for it with the raw damage she can she out.

Veritas (Drow): Experimental TR - Just recently got her to 60 and finished getting Skulker set... Has the highest DEX of any of my TRs...

After checkout out Whisperknife a lot, I've just about got my path finalized and decided I'm going to make Veritas a Whisperknife. I'm still debating on whether changing Setherio or not. I may change him and see how it goes then change him back to MI if things don't work out well.

A couple days ago I met up with todesfaelle while he was on his GF testing out his build for it. We decided to run Karru (normal) to check out our new paths and builds. And I was very pleased with how smooth it went. There were a few bumps but I don't think any one of us died a single time and the run was (relatively) fast. The final boss took us 15 minutes to defeat. After the run, todesfaelle and I were talking and he asked if I was going to post my guild here in the forums. I think I might, during the downtime for that update on the 5th, I'll probably post my build and give detailed explaination on what I chose and why and how to use it.

I made a video a while ago to show off some of Whisperknife's new powers/abilities/feats in a quick (6 minute) DR Dungeon Instance if anyone wants to take a quick look. Trickster Rogue - Whisperknife - Phantasmal Fortress (Preview Shard Testing)

I also made a video of the final boss of Karru with todesfaelle (as his GF), but I'll let todesfaelle decide to post the link or not (if it was a solo run, I'd post it, but I'd rather have his permission prior to since it's not just me).

All in all, Whisperknife is quite different than MI. As for my personal thoughts on it: It's a whole lot more fun too! I feel a lot more engaged in parties, I'm a lot more active as opposed to how I've been feeling lately with MI (just mind-numbingly repeating the same cycles) where as Whisperknife I'm doing a lot more at any given time.

Whisperknive WILL NOT be a path for every TR. But it does have a lot of potential for those willing to try it and give it a chance.

Again, I will be posting a guide come the 5th detailing how I play as Whisperknife, feats used, and things to aim for.

unnoticedshadow · December 2013

setherio wrote: »

I have 3 TR's at 60, each for different purpose and style. I've been debating on which I will change to Whisperknife and have also been spending a fair amount of time trying out various Whisperknife paths.

My 3 TR's:
Setherio (Tiefling): Hybrid TR - While not "permastealth TR", can maintain stealth well enough and deal a fair amount of damage. Is able to solo various epic dungeons and can clear Epic PK (*LEGIT* not "running to campfires") in under 1 hour solo.

Kira (Halfling): Powerhouse TR - While lacking some long-time survival, she can makes up for it with the raw damage she can she out.

Veritas (Drow): Experimental TR - Just recently got her to 60 and finished getting Skulker set... Has the highest DEX of any of my TRs...

After checkout out Whisperknife a lot, I've just about got my path finalized and decided I'm going to make Veritas a Whisperknife. I'm still debating on whether changing Setherio or not. I may change him and see how it goes then change him back to MI if things don't work out well.

A couple days ago I met up with todesfaelle while he was on his GF testing out his build for it. We decided to run Karru (normal) to check out our new paths and builds. And I was very pleased with how smooth it went. There were a few bumps but I don't think any one of us died a single time and the run was (relatively) fast. The final boss took us 15 minutes to defeat. After the run, todesfaelle and I were talking and he asked if I was going to post my guild here in the forums. I think I might, during the downtime for that update on the 5th, I'll probably post my build and give detailed explaination on what I chose and why and how to use it.

I made a video a while ago to show off some of Whisperknife's new powers/abilities/feats in a quick (6 minute) DR Dungeon Instance if anyone wants to take a quick look. Trickster Rogue - Whisperknife - Phantasmal Fortress (Preview Shard Testing)

I also made a video of the final boss of Karru with todesfaelle (as his GF), but I'll let todesfaelle decide to post the link or not (if it was a solo run, I'd post it, but I'd rather have his permission prior to since it's not just me).

All in all, Whisperknife is quite different than MI. As for my personal thoughts on it: It's a whole lot more fun too! I feel a lot more engaged in parties, I'm a lot more active as opposed to how I've been feeling lately with MI (just mind-numbingly repeating the same cycles) where as Whisperknife I'm doing a lot more at any given time.

Whisperknive WILL NOT be a path for every TR. But it does have a lot of potential for those willing to try it and give it a chance.

Again, I will be posting a guide come the 5th detailing how I play as Whisperknife, feats used, and things to aim for.

Thanks for this, I was debating whether I should try this or not. Looks interesting and new. Maybe we will see how it effects pvp as well. From what I' hearing, many people won't try this path out, but this is a great way to combat CWs imo. What do you think?

todesfaelle · December 2013

setherio wrote: »

I also made a video of the final boss of Karru with todesfaelle (as his GF), but I'll let todesfaelle decide to post the link or not (if it was a solo run, I'd post it, but I'd rather have his permission prior to since it's not just me).

Hey, man! I'm completely okay with people seeing the vid. It's a fun duo run for my side. Okay I'll just post it for you so we can save some time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZjmGerTLJ0

There we go!

We decided to run Karrundax together because both of us has stuff to test, and what better way to test our builds than to pit ourselves with a tough dungeon for just 2 players, right? Seth is the Whisperknife TR, I'm testing my experimental Swordmaster GF build. Just a shameless plug, it is a build that addresses the complaints of PVE tanks about their shields breaking too quickly and how hard it is to regain their shields in the process of it breaking. It can hold threat fairly well too. So if anyone's interested in this build, look forward to the guide which I'll be releasing after Module 2 comes out.

I like to call it the Iron Maiden build. I'm excited to unveil the many surprises this build has for players who want to play their tanks as tanks, and not as kiters.

As for the topic of the Whisperknife, observe how mobile the new path is with Vengeance's Pursuit. What's more surprising is that the AoE of Vengeance's Pursuit has no target limit, but the hit box is quite small so best use it when a CW uses Arcane Singularity. I'm also considering to roll a new TR for this path, a Tiefling Scoundrel, maximizing Deflect and Recovery for increased utility and defensive capabilities. Encounters will be Vengeance's Pursuit for the knife mark and teleport, Deft Strike for another teleport, and Smoke Bomb/Dazing Strike. Maximized control and mobility while still having a decent survival rate sounds good, right? It'll be a build designed to be mobile and tanky, and majority of the damage they deal will come from their At-Wills such as Duelist's Flurry and Disheartening Strike. Overall, this path ain't as flexible as Master Infiltrator, but it has its perks when played in the right build.

setherio · December 2013

todesfaelle wrote: »

Hey, man! I'm completely okay with people seeing the vid. It's a fun duo run for my side. Okay I'll just post it for you so we can save some time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZjmGerTLJ0

Thanks, I just didn't want to post it when you may not of wanted it to be posted. ^_^

todesfaelle wrote: »

There we go! We decided to run Karrundax together because both of us has stuff to test, and what better way to test our builds than to pit ourselves with a tough dungeon for just 2 players, right? Seth is the Whisperknife TR, I'm testing my experimental Swordmaster GF build. Just a shameless plug, it is a build that addresses the complaints of PVE tanks about their shields breaking too quickly and how hard it is to regain their shields in the process of it breaking. It can hold threat fairly well too. So if anyone's interested in this build, look forward to the guide which I'll be releasing after Module 2 comes out. I like to call it the Iron Maiden build. I'm excited to unveil the many surprises this build has for players who want to play their tanks as tanks, and not as kiters.

As for the topic of the Whisperknife, observe how mobile the new path is with Vengeance's Pursuit. What's more surprising is that the AoE of Vengeance's Pursuit has no target limit, but the hit box is quite small so best use it when a CW uses Arcane Singularity. I'm also considering to roll a new TR for this path, a Tiefling Scoundrel, maximizing Deflect and Recovery for increased utility and defensive capabilities. Encounters will be Vengeance's Pursuit for the knife mark and teleport, Deft Strike for another teleport, and Smoke Bomb/Dazing Strike. Maximized control and mobility while still having a decent survival rate sounds good, right? It'll be a build designed to be mobile and tanky, and majority of the damage they deal will come from their At-Wills such as Duelist's Flurry and Disheartening Strike. Overall, this path ain't as flexible as Master Infiltrator, but it has its perks when played in the right build.

The best things about Whisperknife are it's At-Wills and Enouncter, Disheartening Strike and Vengeance's Pursuit. todesfaelle (Banelore) asked me if there was a limit - I responded, "not that I know of." And as he mentioned, the AoE range is quite small (about the 1 1/2x, maybe 2x the amount Dazing and Wicked Reminder have - it's still relatively small. And also as he mentioned, using it right as a Singularity Drop will hit every single enemy caught. Toss a smoke bomb right after and you're good as golden

(if your vengence's didn't kill them). Also, I used thsi with minions, trying to gather them as close as I can on the karru run. I managed to hit (13 or 16?), crited each one for 4-5k.

As for the other things mentioned... He Banelore has a very interested idea for this path it looks like. I'm taking a different route. And as I said before, I'll post it on Dec 5th in full detail. In short, my path is more aimed at MAXIMIZING DEX/Critical Hit - #1 Priority is Crit %. Recovery and Deflect would be secondary. I use executioner and (more crit w/ Crit Team Work and the bonus to Vengence is amazing (+100% chance to interupt on initial attack (dagger throw) and follow up (teleport attack) slows the enemy 40%). I also use 2 from Scoundral. The idea in my setup will be Critical Focused and Combat Advantage Based (lots of feats and powers to get that). I call my build a "Support Primary -Executioner Secondary" as it can stand it's own on bosses just the same as MI. And Duelist Flurry for crit severity + bleed. Toss a Disheartening Strike to add poison damage (it attacks the enemy with a STRONG attack (on par with stregth of Gloaming) and for 5 seconds after initial hit, each second will do the same damage. Effecting making 2 forms of DoT on the enemy. So if you score a good 5k crit. you'll end up dping 5,000 * 6 = 30,000 dmg in 6 seconds.

Anyways, that's just a preview of my build/setup. I'll post the full thing in **full** details and include what I think the best companions that will help out with Active Abilities.

And to end this long response...

No, I don't think many people will play Whisperknife. But then again, a lot of people aren't willing to try things and figure things out. I think those people willing to try, test, learn about it's strengths and weaknesses will find Whisperknife just as strong and powerful (if not more so) than MI. From the looks of it, Banelore is planning his path and I'm sure he'll make a post for his build as will I and they look to be quite different.

yogokou · December 2013

Dazing Strike hits for 4k at a 8.3 sec cd for me. VP hits for 1100 (knife)+1100(slash) at ~18 sec. If I hit 4 enemies with Dazing Strike after a Singularity, I would have to hit about 15-16 enemies with VP to get the same damage. I would also get another Dazing Strike for 4k compared to the initial knife throw for 1.1k. Not to mention, dazing them. Another problem is the main dps feat of the path is second down the Saboteur tree, meaning you have to give up the initial Scoundrel feat that increases CA damage,meaning you are down to square one.

I too have tried toying around with the new path, but the numbers are so bad, I didn't find anything worth in it. The saddest part is devs completely ignoring all feedback provided so far. Since it seems they are not gonna bother at the moment with Whisprknife and simply push it out as it is despite the feedback provided. I'm glad at least some people are having fun with it. Personally I found it compeltely unfun: it is extremely static, many of the animations are slow, and clearing mobs in pve takes much much longer.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

Whisperknife will be good in pvp. I don't pve ever so I don't know if it would be good there. The main atraction of the encounter is cc break and usable from stealth

setherio · December 2013

yogokou wrote: »

Dazing Strike hits for 4k at a 8.3 sec cd for me. VP hits for 1100 (knife)+1100(slash) at ~18 sec. If I hit 4 enemies with Dazing Strike after a Singularity, I would have to hit about 15-16 enemies with VP to get the same damage. I would also get another Dazing Strike for 4k compared to the initial knife throw for 1.1k. Not to mention, dazing them. Another problem is the main dps feat of the path is second down the Saboteur tree, meaning you have to give up the initial Scoundrel feat that increases CA damage,meaning you are down to square one.

I too have tried toying around with the new path, but the numbers are so bad, I didn't find anything worth in it. The saddest part is devs completely ignoring all feedback provided so far. Since it seems they are not gonna bother at the moment with Whisprknife and simply push it out as it is despite the feedback provided. I'm glad at least some people are having fun with it. Personally I found it compeltely unfun: it is extremely static, many of the animations are slow, and clearing mobs in pve takes much much longer.

First off, I want to say, sure, whisperknife isn't for everyone, that's obvious. And yes, vengeance is weaker than Dazing. But question for you - do you hit 4 enemies with Dazing? I just did a test on how many enemies I could hit with dazing and at singularity drop, every single time it came out to be 3. I couldn't get a 4th enemy hit when 10+ enemies were dropped. I may of been slightly off in distance, I don't know. I am truly asking, can you show me some proof for a 4 hit dazing?

Secondly, Vengence is a lot more than that. Plus, I can use Dazing AND Vengeance. Teleport in with vengeance - Dazing Strike. Pull 'em both off. 2 is better than one?

Lastly, I'm not even going to attempt to pursuade people into using Whisperknife, or argue that Vengeance is z0mg godly - it's not. It's a TACTICAL encounter. Whiperknife is a TACTICAL path. And as far as I'm concerned, I could be the only person on Neverwinter to chose to use Whisperknife - and I'm perfectly fine with that. It works great with my playing style and I can pull it off just as well as I can pull off Master Infiltrator.

[edited additional comments]

Okay, so changes in whisperknife: Vengeance replaces ITC... You still got Dazing, you can teleport to them with vengeance, do dazing, and vengeance can also slow them 40% with feat. Granted, due to feats, you lose 3% crit chance. And maybe the damage output isn't as HIGH as MI - though I think that is arguable.... But it is a tactical path, and I still think the damage output, in an epic dungeon, can be on par with MI if not higher - given the proper skill of the individual (and gear).
[/end of editing additional comment]

PS: Sorry if I'm coming off a bit... whatever, you know what I mean. I have no intentions of insulting, bringing out, calling out, demeaning anyone, or anything of a negative attribute. If it comes off that way, I apologize. I'm just a bit sick of hearing about people begging for new things then when new thigns come out, all I hear is complaints. And a lot of players (not saying any of you) just look at guides and follow them without having fun, playing with stuff, messing around, enjoying the game, and testing what works best for themselves. So for those who read this, please don't think this is a personal attack on you or anyone else. Sorta just a vent and follow-up explanation as well as an inquiry (about Dazing hitting more than 3 enemies o.O)

reiwulf · December 2013

I can't wait to try the new path, but I have absolutely no idea what to do, what feats and skills to choose from, and I don't want to be forced to buy a retcon, is there a way to do it? like in the test server? to be able to test different builds?

killa530 · December 2013

there was a test server, Idk if it is still up. But setherio said that he was going to create a guide for this new path, i hope soon i can't wait to play it.

sockmunkey · December 2013

That is exactly how you do it.

Use the link to copy your character from live to to the test server.

http://nw.perfectworld.com/preview

When you log on to the test server you should see your character there. Experiment all you like, without worry. If you need another token, just copy your original character over again and experiment as needed.

masterjewstar · December 2013

well itc is going to be missing on any other paragon for the tr besides MI this basically means the people who don't like not having itc won't even use anything but MI. Which would be not experiencing everything and i guess thats ok for them.

rosicrucianist · December 2013

Thing I don't like is the loss of Stealth speed and crit chance. Be curious to other peoples opinions on it though...

wiserwithage · December 2013

My TR was only about 20th when the Whisperknife was announced. I was going Scoundrel for the debuffing route and was playing on using x3 dagger powers (x1 At-Will, x1 Encounter, x1 Daily), so the idea of using Dagger Threat for the extra dps output was really attractive. As things got more developed, I started to like the idea of Whisperknife even more.

Having done some actual play testing in the live version, I'm very satisfied with my TR being a Whisperknife. The PvE character concept was making a build that could have some decent AoE damage and would exist to increase the dps output of my fellow players. All things considered, my play style of Whisperknife fits with my theme. I may not be the hero of the party, but I've still got a respectable dps output and I'm an asset to have along.

One thing that surprised me was how unimpressed I ended up being with Dagger Threat. I just didn't see enough of a damage increase for the passive to be noticeable when it was slotted. In the end, I switched out Dagger Threat and added in Advantageous Position. The change was instantly noticeable. Getting that extra duration of Combat Advantage for my dps output has been a game changer for my soloing (as a non-perma stealth build) and it's even been helping out in dungeons.

The most noticeable difference is when I'm running around with other players who have decent +Combat Advantage benefits. Between the Hateful Knives (Daily) and Vengeance's Pursuit (Encounter) powers, a Whisperknife has some easy ways of giving everyone Combat Advantage. My current build is only running Hateful Knives (with the Seething Knives feat), but I still noticed a real difference when I did multiple GG runs with a 2nd TR. Our party asked us to solo the boss while they dealt with the adds and I could see the boss' health going down much faster when I timed my Hateful Knives for when my fellow TR ran out of stealth.

Once people get the Lantern artifact up high enough, they'll start getting some free +Combat Advantage (regardless of their class). When combined with their use of a Blink Dog for the Active Bonus of +% Combat Advantage, pretty much every player should be getting a dps difference when a Whisperknife grants everyone Combat Advantage conditions. With this in mind, I'm curious to see how desired a Whisperknife is after the next few months.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

After actualy testing it out. It looks like its been nerfed vs its preview status. New paragon daily is very lackluster for damage and the loss of itc was to much when I was playing a few matches

tr new paragon

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