i just tried the system on prrview. it is nearly impossible to rank up a rank 7 . i had 3 rank 7 and burnt sonethin like 2000 minor duplicated enchants and still no reached the needed points. also i had a ward, but if i reach the needed points i cannot rsnk up in any case couse i need also the stone. I didnt sudied well the system couse i had only 20 min free but it seems veryvery expensive in resources and TIME*to rsnk up. To save time i have a suggestion: we have 5
slots in refinement window, why should i burn only 1 object in any slot? if i have a stack of 35 enchants rank 3, let us to burn the whole stack in 1 slot.
Is this system better than previous? i think no couse we have also artifacts to rank up and where should we find all the enchantd to burn everywhere? I will never rank up my anchabts anymire lol...
please could you link me a discussion with math and explanations?
ps.
i think enchants in AH will become more and more expensive. Your opinion?
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2013
If I'm not too tired to do math, you'd need 16384 matching rank 1 enchantments to make a rank 8 under the fuse-four system, provided you never failed even one single fusion. Maybe that puts it into perspective a little. It takes a lot either way, but people are getting burned out while refining because they're trying to do it all at once, instead of a little at a time like they have been doing with fusions.
Criticisms about the cost and/or availability of reagents are separate because we don't know how that's going to shake out.
i undwrstand your math, but you are assumin you HAVE tons of not similar stone... maybe you need to burn everything you have in one enchantmets... and then? how you refine the others? how you refine artifacts? your math show that probably the refinement is much more expensive than before for rank 7+. Devps tried to distract us telling us tgat we need a smaller*** nunmber on enchants/runestone but we need much more AD and most of the time we will feel like we miss one more thing (the reagent, the stone... dont remember the name).
***and it is not true since you need more because of artifacts
i undwrstand your math, but you are assumin you HAVE tons of not similar stone...
And in the current system anything that's not a similar stone can't be used to rank up others at all. whats your point?
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2013
And again, you're taking the perspective of having to rank up everything you own rightthisverysecond, instead of collecting the pieces over time, which is what you'd have to do if you were waiting to accumulate proper matches in multiple of four.
To see what all the noise on this Refining system is all about, I copied my Lv60 CW over to Mimic to give it a try. On arrival, I found I had mail from Cryptic: this being a coffer that will be (presumably) given to all who have attained Lv60 before Module 2 goes live. (The accompanying letter seemed to indicate this.) The coffer contained the following:
1x [Lesser Power Stone]
1x [Lesser Stability Stone]
1x [Lesser Union Stone]
6x [Minor Marks of Potency]
As there are [Lesser Stones], one would think there are also [Greater Stones], but as there has been no mention of them, I guess they don't exist... yet... if ever...
To the unknowing, each [Lesser Stone] gives 2500RP's to the artefact of the corresponding type (and if you look at the list of artefacts you see they come in three flavours: Power, Stability, and Union) and 500RP's to anything else. They serve no other purpose.
After completing the artefact quest line (I chose the [Lantern of Revelation]), I threw in the [Lesser Power Stone] plus as many runes/enchants/shards as needed to get it up to the required rank for upgrading. Here I found I needed the following:
1x [Mark of Potency]
1x [Mark of Power]
2x [Lesser Marks of Power]
Feedback: Coffer: Marks of Potency Instead of having [Minor Marks of Potency] in the coffer, put in [Marks of Potency]. These are more likely to be required by Lv60 characters as (by this time) they will have any runes/enchants on their kit or companions of at least Rank 4 or higher, thus the [Minor Marks] will be (essentially) vendor trash as they are only (by all appearances) to be used in upgrading runes/enchants from Rank 1 to Rank 3.
To all those quibbling about the 'perceived' costs of upgrading your enchants, consider this:
As it stands, when Module 2 goes live, I will remove all Rank 4 runes/enchants currently equipped (not only on my gear, but on my companion and his gear, too) and replace them with available Rank 5/6 enchants (these being the highest I currently have available). These will then be refined with any Rank 1-4 matching enchants (or whatever is left) until full. One rune currently on my companion is a [Lesser Indomitable Runestone] which requires a snot-tonne of RP's to get it ready for upgrading. This will be my 'black hole' for getting rid of all excess Rank 1-4 enchants until I find the necessary marks/stones/etc. for upgrading any of the refined items. Result: plenty of bank space for the storage of said marks/stones/etc.
Sounds like a 'win' to me...
"I have never considered it polite to comment upon the ravings of the insane, nor profitable to engage in arguments with lunatics." - King Avallach (Taliesin - Stephen Lawhead)
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2013
I got 5 Lesser Marks of Potency in the couple of packages I opened, and they were actually going to be useful for me. Also one of each of the types of artifact refining stones, so no change there.
This had better not be an RNG thing.
I am so sick of testing what pops out of boxes for this system.
Well, either I drew the (very) short end of the stick, or the Devs have altered the contents as I got what the coffer said it held (as listed above). If the contents have been changed (even to [Lesser Marks of Potency]), these can be used for RP's (if you don't need them as reagents), whereas the [Minor Marks of Potency] can only be used as reagents (they cannot be used for RP's).
Not quite what I was hoping for, but certainly better than the original.
"I have never considered it polite to comment upon the ravings of the insane, nor profitable to engage in arguments with lunatics." - King Avallach (Taliesin - Stephen Lawhead)
0
ikuruyoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 132Bounty Hunter
edited December 2013
REFINE: BUG
The Loamweave armor enchantment lets you open the refine page, I was then able to add some stones and refine it to give it some refine points. Then slotted a ward and hit refine but nothing happened. The output also showed the enchantment used in a previous refine. Since you can't refine the Loamweave enchantment it should not let you add points to it.
I pulled this out of Panderus's addition to the preview patch notes from before last:
Anyone know where one gets a Cask of Wonders? It sounds like a lockbox item to me.
Because you really wanted it:
From Daily Knox quest for Phantasmal Fortress.
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited December 2013
To make a rank 8 enchantment on preview right now, you have to feed a rank 7 enchantment 4 identical rank 7s, then combine it with another identical rank 7 and add the new reagant (100k from vendor).
Unless you are buying up cheap enchantments specifically for refining, the new system is much more expensive. Once people figure out just how much more expensive and how many refinement points it takes, there will be no cheap purple enchantments that no one wants selling cheaply left.
Right now the only viable way to refine enchantments above rank 7 without it costing a fortune (as in much more expensive than on live) is to use enchantments like Tranquil that no one wants and are selling cheaply on the AH. There's also Fey Blessing, which you can earn once every 3 days for 20k.
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
...Unless you are buying up cheap enchantments specifically for refining, the new system is much more expensive...
There's your answer.
The point is to not upgrade the enchantments you plan on simply consuming. You lose refinement points in the upgrade process.
Instead of upgrading rank fours into rank 7's simply feed the rank 4's into the rank seven. Cost issue solved.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited December 2013
Don't don't don't use rank 7s to feed anything. DON'T! It's wasteful. You get far more points by using rank 4s, which you can farm or just be patient and pick up while playing.
Don't don't don't use rank 7s to feed anything. DON'T! It's wasteful. You get far more points by using rank 4s, which you can farm or just be patient and pick up while playing.
You even get a warning in the current version on preview, if you try to use any Rank >7 enchantment/runestones.
Is there any chance the green and blue versions of "Mark of Power" will drop in skirmishes? The mouse over says they drop in epic dungeons which I'm not looking forward to farming. Be nice if they dropped in level 60 skirmish during the event hour....
4 * 4 similar stone = 16
+28 PW = 4k * 28 = 112k (zen price) Total : 16 stone + 112k
After
rank 5 -> rank 7
similar stone = 14
+7 PW = 7 * 4k = 28k (zen price)
+3 * 25k mark = 75k(roof price) Total = 14 stone + 103k
With my test its cheaper but it s not revolution. May cheaper if drop rate blue mark is good.
I use similar stone , to compare with old syst, but use similar stone give only *2 bonus , so use non similar stone may a best way with new system.
This is just dumb. Why would you use that many PW's, or for that matter any PWs to get to a rank 7 The fact that you think you would need one PW for every fuse also is silly
This is just dumb. Why would you use that many PW's, or for that matter any PWs to get to a rank 7 The fact that you think you would need one PW for every fuse also is silly
Mostly agree. Dont use PWs if the enchantment you could lose is worth less than the PW. R5 to R7 Dark i would use ~15 or so. Silvery like 5 if i was unlucky for R6 to R7.
Roll the extra enchantment refinement cost into the cost of upgrade and eliminate having to have another rank 7, 8, or 9 as a reagent. You already have catalysts required, so people are still going to use wards. This would simplify it quite a bit.
I admit agreeing to this comment (and adding to it) will probably come too late to alter anything before Module 2 goes live, but I thought I'd run this up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes (or shoots!) it.
Not only would it eliminate the necessity of having extra enchants/runes hanging around to be used as reagents, it would also reduce the number of [Lesser], , and [Greater Marks of Potency] required. As it stands, to all intents and purposes the following marks are needed to get one enchant from [Rank 4] to [Rank 10]:
2x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
3x [Marks of Potency]
5x [Greater Marks of Potency]
Doesn't sound like a lot? Remember: that's just for one! Also remember you have 12 pieces of kit that can be enchanted, so you would need the following (at the basic level) to get them all maxed:
24x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
36x [Marks of Potency]
60x [Greater Marks of Potency]
Starting to look like trouble? It gets worse, because I haven't listed what you'll need for the reagents. For one you will need an extra:
14x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
21x [Marks of Potency]
15x [Greater Marks of Potency]
This is because you need an additional 7x [Rank 7's] - one gets used as a reagent to upgrade your [Rank 7], two are used in upgrading your [Rank 8] (one as a reagent to build up the other), and the final four for upgrading your [Rank 9]. This gives a total for one of:
16x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
24x [Marks of Potency]
20x [Greater Marks of Potency]
For all 12 you would need:
192x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
288x [Marks of Potency]
240x [Greater Marks of Potency]
And of course everyone has a companion of some sort. They each can have three runes, and their three equipment slots can also be enchanted. So an additional grand total for them would be:
96x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
144x [Marks of Potency]
120x [Greater Marks of Potency]
This means for one fully tricked-out character and companion combo, you would need:
288x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
432x [Marks of Potency]
360x [Greater Marks of Potency]
If this is what you want, and the current system goes live, then I hope you enjoy farming Epic dungeons for all those rare and epic marks!
However, if Kaylos' suggestion was implemented, the grand totals needed would be thus:
36x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
54x [Marks of Potency]
90x [Greater Marks of Potency]
A decidedly better-looking objective, I would think. If the refining system was changed to this, I think it would bring it more into line with what Pinpointerror was referring to in his Dev Blog:
While we want there to be some challenge involved - as we want the additional value of those high end Enchantments to be meaningful and have value as Epic items – there was room for that difficulty to be reduced...
Thoughts?
"I have never considered it polite to comment upon the ravings of the insane, nor profitable to engage in arguments with lunatics." - King Avallach (Taliesin - Stephen Lawhead)
0
uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
I admit agreeing to this comment (and adding to it) will probably come too late to alter anything before Module 2 goes live, but I thought I'd run this up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes (or shoots!) it.
[...]
Thoughts?
1. Buying (or farming) lots of enchantment (from AH) for the refinement points.
2. Buying the new refining stones (from vendor) for the refinement points.
The biggest RP numbers I have found in preview was 30k AD flawless saphire for 5000RP.
Upgrading my greater to a perfect is 310.000 RP so I need 62 flawless saphires for 1,86 million AD +catalyst +another greater.
Am I correct? Will it be the cheapest way?
0
zanzy1975Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1. Buying (or farming) lots of enchantment (from AH) for the refinement points.
2. Buying the new refining stones (from vendor) for the refinement points.
The biggest RP numbers I have found in preview was 30k AD flawless saphire for 5000RP.
Upgrading my greater to a perfect is 310.000 RP so I need 62 flawless saphires for 1,86 million AD +catalyst +another greater.
Am I correct? Will it be the cheapest way?
Any poor shards - 1200-1400 AD for 540 RP (310000/540*1300=746000), any enchant rank 5 - 900-1100 AD for 540 RP (310000/540*1000=574000)
0
slambitMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 282Bounty Hunter
edited December 2013
so much for a "simpler" system, cost on those reagents need to be cut down
1. Buying (or farming) lots of enchantment (from AH) for the refinement points.
2. Buying the new refining stones (from vendor) for the refinement points.
The biggest RP numbers I have found in preview was 30k AD flawless saphire for 5000RP.
Upgrading my greater to a perfect is 310.000 RP so I need 62 flawless saphires for 1,86 million AD +catalyst +another greater.
Am I correct? Will it be the cheapest way?
The cheapest way are Feyblessing. Cost 20k Ad for 12.960 RP.
R3 enchantment for 270 AD. R4 for 810.
so much for a "simpler" system, cost on those reagents need to be cut down
You don't need the same enchantment type. You don't need the same rank of the enchantment. You haven't so many steps for fusing. You need total less enchantment for the whole process.(+the RP have critical success) You can upgrade the slots enchantment without removing.
so much for a "simpler" system, cost on those reagents need to be cut down
You don't need the same enchantment type. You don't need the same rank of the enchantment. You haven't so many steps for fusing. You need total less enchantment for the whole process.(+the RP have critical success) You can upgrade the slots enchantment without removing.
I want that car to be recolored.
You don't need those wheels, you can buy steering wheel instead (it has power steering). You can change the wheel without going to car repair shop.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
I think it would be an awesome idea if you could upgrade your marks of potency. Imagine if you could combine 4 lessers to one normal and 4 normal to 1 greater!?! Another idea is to have secondary wards to protect your wards from being destroyed! That would totally streamline the system! /sarcasm
Seriously though, ditch the extra "catalyst" cost (extra rank 7, 8, 9) and roll it into the RP requirements for the upgrade. The extra rank__ to upgrade is very obnoxious as you get to higher levels. Also, ditch wards and and failure rate and just let us upgrade with marks of potency. Make them a bit more rare if you have to. The refinement system is currently too punishing in my opinion. Think about it, you have a failure rate, ward cost, marks of potency costs and the extra rank__ as well as the RP requirements. You don't need all of these. Remember you're trying to simplify this system.
Comments
slots in refinement window, why should i burn only 1 object in any slot? if i have a stack of 35 enchants rank 3, let us to burn the whole stack in 1 slot.
Is this system better than previous? i think no couse we have also artifacts to rank up and where should we find all the enchantd to burn everywhere? I will never rank up my anchabts anymire lol...
please could you link me a discussion with math and explanations?
ps.
i think enchants in AH will become more and more expensive. Your opinion?
Criticisms about the cost and/or availability of reagents are separate because we don't know how that's going to shake out.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Before
rank 5 -> rank 7
4 * 4 similar stone = 16
+28 PW = 4k * 28 = 112k (zen price)
Total : 16 stone + 112k
After
rank 5 -> rank 7
similar stone = 14
+7 PW = 7 * 4k = 28k (zen price)
+3 * 25k mark = 75k(roof price)
Total = 14 stone + 103k
With my test its cheaper but it s not revolution. May cheaper if drop rate blue mark is good.
I use similar stone , to compare with old syst, but use similar stone give only *2 bonus , so use non similar stone may a best way with new system.
rank 5 -> rank 8
4 * 4 * 4 similar stone = 64
+40 PW = 4k * 48 = 192k (zen price)
Total : 64 stone + 192k
After
rank 5 -> rank 8
similar stone = 58 (test)
+7 PW = 7 * 4k = 28k (zen price)
+6 * 25k mark 1 * 100k mark = 250k (roof price)
Total = 59 stone + 278k
But in this case , using non similar stone must be interresting , and would decrease cost of operation.
***and it is not true since you need more because of artifacts
Today we need , a tons of similar stone.
And in the current system anything that's not a similar stone can't be used to rank up others at all. whats your point?
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
1x [Lesser Power Stone]
1x [Lesser Stability Stone]
1x [Lesser Union Stone]
6x [Minor Marks of Potency]
As there are [Lesser Stones], one would think there are also [Greater Stones], but as there has been no mention of them, I guess they don't exist... yet... if ever...
To the unknowing, each [Lesser Stone] gives 2500RP's to the artefact of the corresponding type (and if you look at the list of artefacts you see they come in three flavours: Power, Stability, and Union) and 500RP's to anything else. They serve no other purpose.
After completing the artefact quest line (I chose the [Lantern of Revelation]), I threw in the [Lesser Power Stone] plus as many runes/enchants/shards as needed to get it up to the required rank for upgrading. Here I found I needed the following:
1x [Mark of Potency]
1x [Mark of Power]
2x [Lesser Marks of Power]
Feedback: Coffer: Marks of Potency
Instead of having [Minor Marks of Potency] in the coffer, put in [Marks of Potency]. These are more likely to be required by Lv60 characters as (by this time) they will have any runes/enchants on their kit or companions of at least Rank 4 or higher, thus the [Minor Marks] will be (essentially) vendor trash as they are only (by all appearances) to be used in upgrading runes/enchants from Rank 1 to Rank 3.
To all those quibbling about the 'perceived' costs of upgrading your enchants, consider this:
As it stands, when Module 2 goes live, I will remove all Rank 4 runes/enchants currently equipped (not only on my gear, but on my companion and his gear, too) and replace them with available Rank 5/6 enchants (these being the highest I currently have available). These will then be refined with any Rank 1-4 matching enchants (or whatever is left) until full. One rune currently on my companion is a [Lesser Indomitable Runestone] which requires a snot-tonne of RP's to get it ready for upgrading. This will be my 'black hole' for getting rid of all excess Rank 1-4 enchants until I find the necessary marks/stones/etc. for upgrading any of the refined items. Result: plenty of bank space for the storage of said marks/stones/etc.
Sounds like a 'win' to me...
This had better not be an RNG thing.
I am so sick of testing what pops out of boxes for this system.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Not quite what I was hoping for, but certainly better than the original.
The Loamweave armor enchantment lets you open the refine page, I was then able to add some stones and refine it to give it some refine points. Then slotted a ward and hit refine but nothing happened. The output also showed the enchantment used in a previous refine. Since you can't refine the Loamweave enchantment it should not let you add points to it.
Because you really wanted it:
From Daily Knox quest for Phantasmal Fortress.
Unless you are buying up cheap enchantments specifically for refining, the new system is much more expensive. Once people figure out just how much more expensive and how many refinement points it takes, there will be no cheap purple enchantments that no one wants selling cheaply left.
Right now the only viable way to refine enchantments above rank 7 without it costing a fortune (as in much more expensive than on live) is to use enchantments like Tranquil that no one wants and are selling cheaply on the AH. There's also Fey Blessing, which you can earn once every 3 days for 20k.
There's your answer.
The point is to not upgrade the enchantments you plan on simply consuming. You lose refinement points in the upgrade process.
Instead of upgrading rank fours into rank 7's simply feed the rank 4's into the rank seven. Cost issue solved.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
This is just dumb. Why would you use that many PW's, or for that matter any PWs to get to a rank 7 The fact that you think you would need one PW for every fuse also is silly
Mostly agree. Dont use PWs if the enchantment you could lose is worth less than the PW. R5 to R7 Dark i would use ~15 or so. Silvery like 5 if i was unlucky for R6 to R7.
I admit agreeing to this comment (and adding to it) will probably come too late to alter anything before Module 2 goes live, but I thought I'd run this up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes (or shoots!) it.
Not only would it eliminate the necessity of having extra enchants/runes hanging around to be used as reagents, it would also reduce the number of [Lesser], , and [Greater Marks of Potency] required. As it stands, to all intents and purposes the following marks are needed to get one enchant from [Rank 4] to [Rank 10]:
2x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
3x [Marks of Potency]
5x [Greater Marks of Potency]
Doesn't sound like a lot? Remember: that's just for one! Also remember you have 12 pieces of kit that can be enchanted, so you would need the following (at the basic level) to get them all maxed:
24x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
36x [Marks of Potency]
60x [Greater Marks of Potency]
Starting to look like trouble? It gets worse, because I haven't listed what you'll need for the reagents. For one you will need an extra:
14x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
21x [Marks of Potency]
15x [Greater Marks of Potency]
This is because you need an additional 7x [Rank 7's] - one gets used as a reagent to upgrade your [Rank 7], two are used in upgrading your [Rank 8] (one as a reagent to build up the other), and the final four for upgrading your [Rank 9]. This gives a total for one of:
16x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
24x [Marks of Potency]
20x [Greater Marks of Potency]
For all 12 you would need:
192x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
288x [Marks of Potency]
240x [Greater Marks of Potency]
And of course everyone has a companion of some sort. They each can have three runes, and their three equipment slots can also be enchanted. So an additional grand total for them would be:
96x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
144x [Marks of Potency]
120x [Greater Marks of Potency]
This means for one fully tricked-out character and companion combo, you would need:
288x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
432x [Marks of Potency]
360x [Greater Marks of Potency]
If this is what you want, and the current system goes live, then I hope you enjoy farming Epic dungeons for all those rare and epic marks!
However, if Kaylos' suggestion was implemented, the grand totals needed would be thus:
36x [Lesser Marks of Potency]
54x [Marks of Potency]
90x [Greater Marks of Potency]
A decidedly better-looking objective, I would think. If the refining system was changed to this, I think it would bring it more into line with what Pinpointerror was referring to in his Dev Blog:
Thoughts?
1. Buying (or farming) lots of enchantment (from AH) for the refinement points.
2. Buying the new refining stones (from vendor) for the refinement points.
The biggest RP numbers I have found in preview was 30k AD flawless saphire for 5000RP.
Upgrading my greater to a perfect is 310.000 RP so I need 62 flawless saphires for 1,86 million AD +catalyst +another greater.
Am I correct? Will it be the cheapest way?
Any poor shards - 1200-1400 AD for 540 RP (310000/540*1300=746000), any enchant rank 5 - 900-1100 AD for 540 RP (310000/540*1000=574000)
The cheapest way are Feyblessing. Cost 20k Ad for 12.960 RP.
R3 enchantment for 270 AD. R4 for 810.
You don't need the same enchantment type. You don't need the same rank of the enchantment. You haven't so many steps for fusing. You need total less enchantment for the whole process.(+the RP have critical success) You can upgrade the slots enchantment without removing.
I want that car to be recolored.
You don't need those wheels, you can buy steering wheel instead (it has power steering). You can change the wheel without going to car repair shop.
Seriously though, ditch the extra "catalyst" cost (extra rank 7, 8, 9) and roll it into the RP requirements for the upgrade. The extra rank__ to upgrade is very obnoxious as you get to higher levels. Also, ditch wards and and failure rate and just let us upgrade with marks of potency. Make them a bit more rare if you have to. The refinement system is currently too punishing in my opinion. Think about it, you have a failure rate, ward cost, marks of potency costs and the extra rank__ as well as the RP requirements. You don't need all of these. Remember you're trying to simplify this system.