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The role of a GF
rougedrogue
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 25
Greetings all.
I'm a relatively new level 60 GF. I've read the forums, watched the youtube videos and have generally done the best I can in dungeons.
Today I ran CC in a PUG (which I have run at least 6 times before with no problem.) and I read the comment (We're not going to do it with this tank.) That hurt!
Always helpful I asked, what do you need me to do? I was told to mass aggro and I wasn't blocking properly...
I changed things up, mass aggroed and blocked where I thought was necessary. Still wiped. Everyone bailed.
My technique is pretty simple, Tab the boss, TR and dance about the place marking and or killing as I can with FS, EF, LS with FR and VM on dailies
I'm not the best and I admit that. I ran with the wrong PUG for my playstyle and I'll admit that too.
What I would like to see is how the upper echelon GF's play according to their builds.
What is your role? How do you handle the boss or adds in any given dungeon if you're..
1) A tank
2) A hybrid
3) A DPS
I know there are a plethora of variables. I'd just love to hear the general ebb and flow..
I'm just a little baffled at the moment as I thought I was doing OK. O.o
-T.R.R.
I'm a relatively new level 60 GF. I've read the forums, watched the youtube videos and have generally done the best I can in dungeons.
Today I ran CC in a PUG (which I have run at least 6 times before with no problem.) and I read the comment (We're not going to do it with this tank.) That hurt!
Always helpful I asked, what do you need me to do? I was told to mass aggro and I wasn't blocking properly...
I changed things up, mass aggroed and blocked where I thought was necessary. Still wiped. Everyone bailed.
My technique is pretty simple, Tab the boss, TR and dance about the place marking and or killing as I can with FS, EF, LS with FR and VM on dailies
I'm not the best and I admit that. I ran with the wrong PUG for my playstyle and I'll admit that too.
What I would like to see is how the upper echelon GF's play according to their builds.
What is your role? How do you handle the boss or adds in any given dungeon if you're..
1) A tank
2) A hybrid
3) A DPS
I know there are a plethora of variables. I'd just love to hear the general ebb and flow..
I'm just a little baffled at the moment as I thought I was doing OK. O.o
-T.R.R.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
You aren't the only one to have a role in a boss fight.
Here's what I think, GF can be tank, DPS or hybrid BUT the game and every other class expect them to tank, so when you go in dungeon, be prepared to tank.
That being said, to tank well, you have to take most of the damage on yourself leaving your comrades free to DPS or heal (given their role).
So you have to take agro on most mobs and tank the damage (with passive defense or active one with shield).
Now if the healer is not focused on yourself and the DPS/controller do not do their jobs, you' won't last long and the wipe is near.
Mind me, you do not have to take agro on all mobs, that would mean your death, but you have too take agro on the most dangerous ones.
For most boss fight in this game, there are two things to do :
- DPS boss so it finally die
- Manage the adds so they don't interfere to much with the DPS on boss
If you do not do one of these, it's a wipe.
Given the boss, the tank must either tank the adds or the boss. If the tank is on boss, other players must handle the adds as you cannot do both.
Here's some of the classical configurations :
- GF tank boss, Another DPS is on boss too (TR are good for that), Mages and GWF handle the adds and cleric heals everyone
- GF kite adds (when adds are mostly cac, frozen heart for example), all DPS on boss
- GF and mage handle the adds, the other DPS are on boss (works well in pirate king)
CC can be a little tricky cause the boss moves a lot, and most of the adds are distance or really mobile.
Here's what i'll do, GF agro boss and some of the adds, mages and GWF handle the adds, and the last DPS on boss too. That might take a while, but that should work.
Your team must handle the adds, and you cannot do it alone, it's usually the mages role to do it with the help of a warrior (GF or GWF, given the situation and the team composition)
For add tanking, Lunging Strike + Enforced Threat + Frontline Surge was my classical loadout. Threatening Rush + Cleave as at-wills, Combat Superiority and Ferocious Reaction/Trample The Fallen for class features. But it all gotta depend on the build. Mine is Conqueror, so i build threat also by doing damage. (After the stalwart got broken, not that much tho
Currently i swapped Ferocious Reaction with Enhanced Mark because i have Bronzewood in my sword and because i ditched Enforced Threat in favor of Into The Fray. When your party has at least 2 wizards, their dailies will faceroll all the dungeon.
Also, to maintain the aggro you need to know where to put your marks and encounters on. For example, Arcane singularity redirects all aggro towards the wizard who casted it. So you'd better make your roar as soon as the mobs fall to the ground.
You can choose to aid the group by becoming a walking augmentation - Knight Captain set is T1, and so far it is imho the best set for tanky GF. This set's uptime is enormous (like 100% as i can see) so maybe it will get nerfed someday. Holy Avenger enchantment in your sword will also debuff mobs. Being able to tank doesn't mean block everything. It is impossible, so your role under loads of adds it to avoid as much damage as possible. Stack defense to 50% and deflect to 25% - or even more if you want it.
Making high DPS means equipping Timeless Hero set as well as plague fire enchantment - it will take time to get all that. Except for that, armor penetration to 24% is required, as well as Conqueror build so if you choose another path, i'm not sure you can go hybrid.
This is my load out for add tanking. Which was my priority. Admittedly, I had a hard time finding a rhythm. I run knights cap and indom for the two set buffs.
As in all things communication is key. I simply should have asked where they wanted me to focus. Boss or adds. Thanks for the feedback fellow guardians.
Some boss fights you'll be on Add Aggro duty and just marking & kiting while team burns boss. Other boss fights you'll be on boss while CW(s) toss/kite add's and some fights you just burn the boss down with the add's.
It really depends on the team you are with and their capabilities.
Sometimes it doesn't pay to try to aggro EVERYTHING. Sometimes you want to tank the boss alone, or the adds alone. This depends on the run and your group.
I wouldn't agree that your role is to avoid as much damage as possible, I'd say it's more to control some part of the enemy, and pull damage away from other members. You might be geared to do more DPS and need to avoid some of that incoming damage (or block more) or you might be geared to soak it up (high regen/deflect build for instance), but you still have to get a feel for your team, and what will work best as a group.
That being said, I also tend to think that a boss fight outcome generally depends more on the DC/CW combo than anything else. A good DC, being protected by a strong CW and free to heal can make a HUGE difference.
Like sloothzz pointed out, Into the Fray can really help your other party members shine. I use a similar load out, though I go with Anvil of Doom over lunging strike (and use threatening rush to move from mob to mob quickly). Especially if I'm focused on the boss or I'm killing ads vs simply kiting (like FH boss fight).
Also, if you are tanking just the boss, you might consider Knicht's Challenge AND Anvil of Doom for some wicked DPS boost, just be careful to mitigate that incoming damage. ;-)
I used to actually think we had a guard meter for something, but NOPE, we just prance.
The armour clad, shield bearing, shiny symbol of defence, character. Runs around in circles like a little girl whilst crying.
Thanks again. I really should have had some more situational awareness in that battle. It was just a bad night and the comments from my teammates really irked me.
And for boss tanking, the loadout is totally different. Cleave + Tide of Iron as at-wills - for constant debuff. Griffon Wrath, Bull Charge and Frontline Surge as encounters - Frontline serves as AP gain till boss has less than 25% health when you swap it for Anvil of Doom. Villain's Menace and Fighter's Recovery still stay - best dailies for a GF in dungeons. Or you might change the former with Terrifying Impact, up to you (i don't bother since i don't wanna snipe anything as a GF
Alse the KC set is not really good for boss fight, so i change it for a set of 4 blue/purple pieces that give me the best stats power- and crit-wise (my arpen is stacked to 22%/24% on my cat). I don't have Timeless tho - too lazy to go and get it.
If no one has an issue with that (none so far), we will enter and go to work.
The main reason for the approach is to keep Traven relatively rooted to my position on the battlefield - if he is allowed to teleport wildly, the squishier classes are in greater danger of his AOE bomb throw and double blade cleave (especially if he appears behind them). As long as the other team members take out the adds in the sparser parts of the battle (the archers and melee bandits), they can contribute to DPS’ing the boss.
When the more elite adds spawn (Hexers, Gnolls, etc), the team needs to get back to burning them as I keep Traven’s attention.
Meanwhile, I am basically doing a combination of striking and blocking with circular rotations around Traven if I can, in order to gain Combat Advantage. If my Guard meter goes into the red, I’ll start moving more - I should have Traven aggro’ed still so he will follow, and I don’t need to worry about him teleporting across the room to slice up the CW/DC.
Lately, I have been loading out with Lunging Strike, Knight’s Challenge and Anvil of Doom for the fight.
1) Lunging Strike - in case Traven sneaks a knockback kick in and I don’t block in time, I will see the big red circle under me after I come out of a stunned state. Lunging Strike will guarantee I’m out of the circle and right back up on Traven (with some damage too). Threatening Rush as an At-Will can perform the same effect, if you prefer another Encounter.
2) Knight’s Challenge - make sure you are on point with your blocking, because you don’t want to take his direct hits while the effect is on him. This can help burn him quickly, especially if you are a Conqueror spec without a TR helping you wear him down.
3) Anvil of Doom - make sure you use right after Knight’s Challenge for maximum damage, especially when he is at lower health.
I’ve also experimented with using Into the Fray to help the party movement and defense, especially during the elite adds phase.
Of course, it’s all up to the skills of the other players as well, but I haven’t wiped once with this strategy, even with some really messy groups. Make sure you are using potions liberally too, as I generally assume the DC won’t be there to heal me when I need it.
Your mileage may vary, but I hope this helps. Good luck!
Between PVP, PVE and Solo if I'm having a "mentally relaxed" night I can't flip the switch and, well, madness ensues.
I always tank add in T2s except for sometimes in PK if there is no TR. I think I ran CC a couple of times when I reached 60 on my GF but I did dps the boss without any real difficulty (with Knight's Challenge, Lunging Strike and BC-Anvil). The only real places I tank bosses are MC and DV.
If I ran CC now for some reason and was asked to tank adds I would just use my usual set up of ITF, Frontline and EF, with Terrifying Impact for my Daily. I'm a Tactician spec so I use Tample the Fallen-Battle Trample to generate my agro (I don't have the feat for threat and don't run Enhanced Mark anywhere but FH's last boss). I've held agro in ToS dealing 6 million in damage against 3 other people doing 17-20 million a piece.
Two things I can think to say:
1. Tab-Marking is an inferior way to gain agro. Except for FH, the only time I use tab to Mark is to get an Elite Mob on the other side of the battlefield I don't want to go fetch. If you aren't going to tank the boss, don't bother to tab mark it. To Mark other adds, use Threatening Rush, and slap them in the face with your shield. The Mark will go away but that doesn't mean you have lost agro. And only directly Mark the Elite Adds. A smattering of TR at-wills and EF on rotation should be all the Marking you really need. Elsewise, concentrate on controlling and killing. My rotation is usually ITF, TR at-will a ball of adds, Frontline Surge them, EF and Cleave until Frontline comes up again. Block only to get out of red ground areas, duck the rest.
2. Get a second kick weapon enchantment. I know a lot of GFs will swear by things like Vorpal or Bronzewood, but I have honestly found a difference in agro with any weapon enchantment that deals damage a second time. Plaguefire if you like, though I use Bilethorn (in testing I found Bile holds agro better than Plague but that may be my Battle Trample feat). I would guess it has a lot to do with TR at-wills and EF, since you deal damage a second time to Marked targets.
Your next dungeon is Idris, after CC. For the end boss fight, be careful using EF or TR at-wills at the top of the stairs on the second platform as it can provoke Idris. Slot in BC and Frontline and use them to push the Hulks off the second platform and make them walk back. Rinse repeat.
Agreed. Tab marking animation alone is a show stopper. I use it at the start, and that's where it begins and ends. I've gone full kc at this point and included into the fray in my load out. If nothing else ItF is fun as hell. I'm just running skirmishes to get a feel for the new set and power load out, so far so good. I have a life drinker slotted as I'm pushing for a life steal build. Great tips on iris!
Again, thanks for the feedback. You guys and gals are great!
Smacks to the head are optional of course. :cool:
These two traits are what define the GF in its current incarnation. Yes they can also deal out damage moderately well, but that is neither necessary nor a focused of the class. The one stat that will pretty much sum up how well of a job "tanking" you are doing is the damage taken figure in dungeons. If you aren't number one in this category consistently than there is a variance in the way the dungeon was played(you ran with 3 cw, you let a gwf do the tanking or something else along those lines)
When played as intended, you should always come out on top in a that category. As an example, I almost always soak as much or more damage than the rest of the entire party combined. Conversely this is done whilst being second to last in damage given(which merely illustrates damage is not mutually exclusive to tanking in this game)
This however comes down primarily to play style though and there are other GF users (conquerors) who can achieve the same ends through different means.
As for gear, there really is no best set up beyond what will compliment your play style. What works for me, how I'm set up, may not work for the next person so although it is fine to heed advice and try it out for yourself, always adapt suggestion to suit your needs.
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