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Arcane-Based Thaum

pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
edited November 2013 in The Library
I am thinking about respeccing to this. Comments welcome.

http://nwcalc.com/cw?b=p7j:4yhu4:8fen,1l330k3:60000:buu5v:b0000&h=0

In particular, my requirements are that I don't want to use Chilling Cloud (too slow, not arcane) or Storm Pillar (too clunky).

Also please keep in mind that I don't (yet) have the HV set so I don't get the benefit of its bonus.

Edit: Okay, think I fixed the link now.
Post edited by pointsman on

Comments

  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    In addition, with this build I also imagine a choice for encounters/dailies might go something like this:

    Soloing:
    Chill Strike (Mastery), Conduit of Ice, Steal Time, Shard
    Arcane Singularity/Oppressive Force, Ice Knife

    AoE Dungeons:
    Conduit of Ice (Mastery), Sudden Storm, Steal Time, Shard
    Arcane Singularity, Oppressive Force

    Singbot:
    Entangle (Mastery), Conduit of Ice, Steal Time, Shard
    Arcane Singularity, Oppressive Force

    Single Target:
    Icy Rays (Mastery), Conduit of Ice, Ray of Enfeeblement, Chill Strike
    Oppressive Force, Ice Knife

    Pushing Things:
    Repel (Mastery), Shield, Steal Time, ???
    Arcane Singularity, Oppressive Force (or maybe Ice Storm)

    PVP:
    Icy Rays (Mastery), Ray of Enfeeblement, Repel, Entangle
    Oppressive Force, Ice Knife
    When lots of TRs around: replace Repel with Steal Time

    For Valindra: choose Maelstrom instead of Oppressive Force
  • uurbsuurbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 449 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    For the Valindra/Fulminorax fight, one point in Maelstrom of Chaos (MoC) is enough--besides that fight, I don't use it at all. I tried it in different situations, but for me it was inferior to Oppressive Force.

    I guess, you're going to use Magic Missle as your standard At-Will power.

    Interesting build idea. I guess you are not going to have a lot of chill on your targets--and that is the reason why you omitted feats geared towards "Chilled" targets, and included Snap Freeze.

    Therfore, I would make just two changes:
    1. Fight On is superior to Controlling Action. I did some tests on the Preview shard, some month back, and in regards to Action Point gain, there is no difference between those two feats. But shorter encounter cooldowns, means more damage & control. Therefore, I would put two points in Toughness and one point more in Fight On.
    2. If you're a Tiefling do not use Tempest Magic--your Tiefling bonus will be overwritten bei Tempest Magic at 30%. Both feats do not stack. Therefore if you're a Tiefling I would put the two points of MoC (I meantioned in the beginning) into Storm Pillar and replace Tempest Magic with Destructive Wizardry. That way, for longer fights, you can use Storm Pillar to provide you with an additional 10% damage increase.

    Just my 2 cents,
    Urbs
    Proud member of Dragon Clan - German Gaming Community
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Ice Storm is somewhat useless in high levels. And its target limit is only 5. Imho, it's not worth using a daily power whose target limit is only 5 to push things. I would rather spend the 1 point to make Shied rank 2 than make Ice Storm rank 3.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    uurbs wrote: »
    1. Fight On is superior to Controlling Action. I did some tests on the Preview shard, some month back, and in regards to Action Point gain, there is no difference between those two feats. But shorter encounter cooldowns, means more damage & control. Therefore, I would put two points in Toughness and one point more in Fight On.
    I have had my Controlling Action maxed so I'm interested in this. Could you please explain your tests in details?
  • uurbsuurbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 449 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    ianthewizard2012 wrote: »
    I have had my Controlling Action maxed so I'm interested in this. Could you please explain your tests in details?
    Just read my old posting, where I explained what I did.
    Proud member of Dragon Clan - German Gaming Community
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    uurbs wrote: »
    Just read my old posting, where I explained what I did.

    Thanks. Quoted from your comment in that thread:
    2. How does "Controlling Action" compare to "Fight On" in regards to Action Point gain: With three points in "Controlling Action" it took me about 25 seconds to be fully charged, and with the same three points in "Fight On" instead, it took me about 25 seconds as well.
    Frankly speaking, that doesn't seem to be a very accurate testing.

    A test like this might be more accurate:
    1. With 0 points in Controlling Action, use tabbed Entangling Force on mobs who are dazed by Oppressive Force. Record the AP gain.
    2. With 5 points in Controlling Action, use tabbed Entangling Force on mobs who are dazed by Oppressive Force. Record the AP gain.
    3. Count the difference of AP gain from the above two tests.
  • uurbsuurbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 449 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    ianthewizard2012 wrote: »
    A test like this might be more accurate:
    1. With 0 points in Controlling Action, use tabbed Entangling Force on mobs who are dazed by Oppressive Force. Record the AP gain.
    2. With 5 points in Controlling Action, use tabbed Entangling Force on mobs who are dazed by Oppressive Force. Record the AP gain.
    3. Count the difference of AP gain from the above two tests.
    Great! Frankly speaking, I'm now waiting for your test results, but you don't compare Controlling Action to Fight On with that.

    I was and still am interested in general cases about AP gain and not any specific--besides the powers I used also count as "controlling". Therefore I did the testing with the (Thaumaturge-based) encounters. But, as I said in the previous paragraph, I'm very interested in your test results.
    Proud member of Dragon Clan - German Gaming Community
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    uurbs wrote: »
    Great! Frankly speaking, I'm now waiting for your test results.
    Well, I haven't tried preview shard, and honestly that thing sounds troublesome. I will simply assume that 5 points in Controlling Action does help.
  • drsconedrscone Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Nice looking build pointsman.

    For Pushing things you could have Shard as he last encounter just for damage and control, or Entangling Force which I find very useful to control one of the nastier adds before shoving them into the void.

    For PvP you could consider swapping CoI for RoE - both give similar mitigation with you feats, but CoI will catch anyone standing near the targets and it does seem to upset people that you cast it on. This is really just personal preference however - doesn't make a lot of difference really.

    ianthewizard - thanks for your contribution. Helpful as always. Oh, no sorry, I meant uurbs...
    Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
    Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    uurbs wrote: »
    [*]If you're a Tiefling do not use Tempest Magic--your Tiefling bonus will be overwritten bei Tempest Magic at 30%. Both feats do not stack.
    Urbs
    This is wrong, confirmed by devs (I will try to find the post). Both bonuses stack. I agree with other advices.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
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  • uurbsuurbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 449 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    darthpotater wrote: »
    This is wrong, confirmed by devs (I will try to find the post). Both bonuses stack. I agree with other advices.
    Dang, apparently, I do need to test it out myself :( Please try to find said post, because IIRC the dev said that it does not stack--but as English is not my mother tongue, it could also be that I misunderstood it.
    Proud member of Dragon Clan - German Gaming Community
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Thank you for the advice.
    I am not a Tiefling so I think I will stick with Tempest Magic.
    Changing the Heroic feat points to Fight On is a good idea.
    I was trying to find some justification for Ice Storm since I'm forced to spend 2 points in it.
    2 points in Maelstrom and 2 points in Shield also seems like a solid choice.
    I'll try this out this evening and try it out in Sharandar.
  • sslothzzsslothzz Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    In addition to all that - you don't need Evocation at all (for now it is somehow broken). If you go for arcane DPS, then your class features are Storm Spell + Eye of the Storm.
    Also, you might consider swapping Snap Freeze for Nightmare Wizardry. While CS/CoI damage with it is beautiful, Nightmare Wizardry works in perfect synergy with EotS, making your crits go crazy (especially if you have some vorpal). On the other hand, i have seen lots of wizards doing crazy damage with plague fire, so the choice is yours (just don't use anything higher than lesser for now).
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    darthpotater wrote: »
    This is wrong, confirmed by devs (I will try to find the post). Both bonuses stack. I agree with other advices.

    Tempest Magic and Bloodhunt do NOT stack, i.e. you do not get 15%. Tempest Magic just overrides it. That is,

    50% -> 30% = Bloodhunt.
    30% -> 0% = Tempest Magic.

    This has been tested by players and is in Grimah's Comprehensive Wizard Guide, which all CWs should at least glance through, to make sure they do not miss anything obvious.
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sslothzz wrote: »
    In addition to all that - you don't need Evocation at all (for now it is somehow broken). If you go for arcane DPS, then your class features are Storm Spell + Eye of the Storm.
    Also, you might consider swapping Snap Freeze for Nightmare Wizardry. While CS/CoI damage with it is beautiful, Nightmare Wizardry works in perfect synergy with EotS, making your crits go crazy (especially if you have some vorpal). On the other hand, i have seen lots of wizards doing crazy damage with plague fire, so the choice is yours (just don't use anything higher than lesser for now).

    I only have Lesser Vorpal right now.

    I don't think I can choose Nightmare Wizardry instead of Snap Freeze, I need 15 paragon points in Thaum in order to unlock the 4th tier (which I really want). But I would if I could.
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I wouldn't bother paying for a respec now, you're doing just fine now. There's no need to ultraperform in PvE, there's nothing so challenging to warrant a change from a functional build to a slightly better one. Classic Thaum, frost or arcane, is extremely viable in the new module too, just wait till the free respec token and the new wave of theorycrafting in the forums. I have a few lazy choices in my build too (including the useless Evocation) but not gonna bother to change anything.

    As for the build:

    - ignoring CC/Frozen Power Transfer is not a good choice, even as arcane, you took all kinds of AoE feats yet you missing on the best AoE at-will
    - controlling action is useless, toughness will help you in PvP but not only
    - learned spellcaster is an increase to EVERYTHING, instead of just AoEs. Your single target in PvP will suffer
    - destructive wizardry is a much better choice than snap freeze for what seems to be your purpose (AoE in PvE)
  • magemyronmagemyron Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    Tempest Magic and Bloodhunt do NOT stack, i.e. you do not get 15%. Tempest Magic just overrides it. That is,

    50% -> 30% = Bloodhunt.
    30% -> 0% = Tempest Magic.

    Hum, then check this topic out: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?436861-CW-feat-Tempest-Magic-Tiefling-racial

    Because of this statement, I've been using Tempest Magic as a Tiefling.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    magemyron wrote: »
    Hum, then check this topic out: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?436861-CW-feat-Tempest-Magic-Tiefling-racial

    Because of this statement, I've been using Tempest Magic as a Tiefling.
    Yeah that was the post. Thank you for finding.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
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  • sslothzzsslothzz Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    So now i am confused :)
    My Tiefling also has Tempest Magic. But i never see Bloodhunt icon on my targets below 50% health. I know what is looks like, and i watch thoroughly - but it's never there. So i think in the end it is broken.
  • magemyronmagemyron Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sslothzz wrote: »
    So now i am confused :)
    My Tiefling also has Tempest Magic. But i never see Bloodhunt icon on my targets below 50% health. I know what is looks like, and i watch thoroughly - but it's never there. So i think in the end it is broken.

    Hum, I also never noticed it's icon on the enemies, but it is perhaps like the Prestidigitaion feat, where it works on yourself without showing it's icon, like it does appear on your allies. Just a graphic omission.
  • sslothzzsslothzz Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    magemyron wrote: »
    Hum, I also never noticed it's icon on the enemies, but it is perhaps like the Prestidigitaion feat, where it works on yourself without showing it's icon, like it does appear on your allies. Just a graphic omission.
    I saw it once, on Frozen Heart last boss. It lasted several seconds and then gone.
    Never saw it from that time. A mystery :)
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