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Areas of Improvement for NWO!
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
First, I want to say thanks to Cryptic for making a VERY fun game and ontop of that its FREE!
I am writing this as a LONG time player since OB and have contributed financially as well towards this game. I write this as suggestion and encouragement and am REALLY hoping this gets passed to the DEVs... Sominator, that means you bro!
Leveling:
I wont suggest anything here because honestly it wont change anything. With the Boons system and end game, you already have ALOT to do to keep a character "up to date" and that will only getting larger with new expansions.
End Game Epic Dungeons:
ALOT of the "end game" is farming to get the best gear players can. However there have been alot of controversy about how current dungeons are boring or not worth it.
Honestly dungeons DO need to be re-worked and I have found alot of VERY exceptional write-ups about this, the most recent of which can be seen here:http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/sho...-realistically
Overall: People just hate mob farming for no rewards. That the the pure number of mobs that have to be killed, really ruin the PVE experience.
End Game Raids
Now this is something I truly think NWO can implement. It has been asked for a TON by alot of players and I think alot of potential here.
How NWO could implement this: I think 10 man raids would be optimal. Two parties of five, a weekly CD would be great! And better Equipment that is worth getting, not just like +5 more stats to the T2 versions... This really brings the community together to run these "raids" since its only offered once per week at max. Heck, you could even make it an event LIKE GG where you only have the opportunity to enter the raid dungeon a few times a day, however this seems more restricting than helpful.
PVP
NWO just has two domination maps, and GG which is honestly just "horse racing" as alot of people call it. I am very surprised CTF has not been done yet in NWO and I think a slayer match would be amazing as well.
World PVP could really enable the players to do ALOT of things and get their "pvp" fix.
How NWO could implement this: Each zone as different "instanced" versions of that zone. I could see world pvp easily implemented my just making ONE of those instances a "World PVP" instance. Towns/Camps are safe zones and everything else is fair game. Want to test your luck? Go level in a world pvp zone. Sick of ganking or getting ganked? Leave and go to the "safe instances" where PVP is disabled.
This really gives you the best of both worlds. What this ALSO allows is people in the PVP community to set up different types of things like 1v1s 2v2s etc....
Arena PVP
I made this because I think it deserves its own portion. Arena PVP is really a VERY lucrative business model for Cryptic. A large majority of players are asking for this and I would easily wager the LARGE majority of money spent in NWO is for pvp. Make PVP arena matches and you make it alot more popular increasing the people who spend money on the game.
Couple that with higher PVP (T3 maybe) rewards and (pvp weapons) obtained from this type of play and you have a VERY nice opportunity to satisfy players and bring in some $.
Gear/Stats
With substantial Diminishing returns on Stats, the upgrades in gear AND enchants from say a R9 to a R10 really dont upgrade the character much.
I really think that NWO should implement a Increasing Returns policy in which there are Lower levels of dim returns up to a certain threshold, example could be Critical Strike at 2k, each point UP to 2k provides LESS of a return than the points before This gives most 60s a "baseline" of stats liek it is currently so this would not affect T1 and most of T2 farming.
HOWEVER! Once you reach that threshold, each points after yield substantially GREATER gains. A player with 4k in critical strike should have IMMENSE crit chance because they gave up other stats to get this. Same with ARP/Power/Recovery etc... Right now because of HEAVY DR, Players are almost pigeon holed into a few builds and stat stacking because they can only push numbers so high...
This not only gives incentives for upgrading gear but also enchants which are the heart of this game.
"Legendary" items.
This is important to the community because its creates "celebrity status". The Legendary items should be very powerful, but VERY hard to come by.
I think there was some hope of implementation of this with the formorian weapons but honestly the upgrade was almost nothing compared to the cost. Alot of people did this because well... they didnt have much else to do.... But it wasnt because the weapon was SO much better that they wanted the item....
Make TRUE legendary and powerful items that and incredibly hard to get, but also very rewarding to get. I have started a thread about this here as a creative outlet for ideas:http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/sho...gn-a-Legendary!
I really hope this gets some attention because these are HUGE growth areas I think NWO could add.
Please dont flame, if you disagree here, thats fine but no need to turn this into drama. Thanks!
I am writing this as a LONG time player since OB and have contributed financially as well towards this game. I write this as suggestion and encouragement and am REALLY hoping this gets passed to the DEVs... Sominator, that means you bro!
Leveling:
I wont suggest anything here because honestly it wont change anything. With the Boons system and end game, you already have ALOT to do to keep a character "up to date" and that will only getting larger with new expansions.
End Game Epic Dungeons:
ALOT of the "end game" is farming to get the best gear players can. However there have been alot of controversy about how current dungeons are boring or not worth it.
Honestly dungeons DO need to be re-worked and I have found alot of VERY exceptional write-ups about this, the most recent of which can be seen here:http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/sho...-realistically
Overall: People just hate mob farming for no rewards. That the the pure number of mobs that have to be killed, really ruin the PVE experience.
End Game Raids
Now this is something I truly think NWO can implement. It has been asked for a TON by alot of players and I think alot of potential here.
How NWO could implement this: I think 10 man raids would be optimal. Two parties of five, a weekly CD would be great! And better Equipment that is worth getting, not just like +5 more stats to the T2 versions... This really brings the community together to run these "raids" since its only offered once per week at max. Heck, you could even make it an event LIKE GG where you only have the opportunity to enter the raid dungeon a few times a day, however this seems more restricting than helpful.
PVP
NWO just has two domination maps, and GG which is honestly just "horse racing" as alot of people call it. I am very surprised CTF has not been done yet in NWO and I think a slayer match would be amazing as well.
World PVP could really enable the players to do ALOT of things and get their "pvp" fix.
How NWO could implement this: Each zone as different "instanced" versions of that zone. I could see world pvp easily implemented my just making ONE of those instances a "World PVP" instance. Towns/Camps are safe zones and everything else is fair game. Want to test your luck? Go level in a world pvp zone. Sick of ganking or getting ganked? Leave and go to the "safe instances" where PVP is disabled.
This really gives you the best of both worlds. What this ALSO allows is people in the PVP community to set up different types of things like 1v1s 2v2s etc....
Arena PVP
I made this because I think it deserves its own portion. Arena PVP is really a VERY lucrative business model for Cryptic. A large majority of players are asking for this and I would easily wager the LARGE majority of money spent in NWO is for pvp. Make PVP arena matches and you make it alot more popular increasing the people who spend money on the game.
Couple that with higher PVP (T3 maybe) rewards and (pvp weapons) obtained from this type of play and you have a VERY nice opportunity to satisfy players and bring in some $.
Gear/Stats
With substantial Diminishing returns on Stats, the upgrades in gear AND enchants from say a R9 to a R10 really dont upgrade the character much.
I really think that NWO should implement a Increasing Returns policy in which there are Lower levels of dim returns up to a certain threshold, example could be Critical Strike at 2k, each point UP to 2k provides LESS of a return than the points before This gives most 60s a "baseline" of stats liek it is currently so this would not affect T1 and most of T2 farming.
HOWEVER! Once you reach that threshold, each points after yield substantially GREATER gains. A player with 4k in critical strike should have IMMENSE crit chance because they gave up other stats to get this. Same with ARP/Power/Recovery etc... Right now because of HEAVY DR, Players are almost pigeon holed into a few builds and stat stacking because they can only push numbers so high...
This not only gives incentives for upgrading gear but also enchants which are the heart of this game.
"Legendary" items.
This is important to the community because its creates "celebrity status". The Legendary items should be very powerful, but VERY hard to come by.
I think there was some hope of implementation of this with the formorian weapons but honestly the upgrade was almost nothing compared to the cost. Alot of people did this because well... they didnt have much else to do.... But it wasnt because the weapon was SO much better that they wanted the item....
Make TRUE legendary and powerful items that and incredibly hard to get, but also very rewarding to get. I have started a thread about this here as a creative outlet for ideas:http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/sho...gn-a-Legendary!
I really hope this gets some attention because these are HUGE growth areas I think NWO could add.
Please dont flame, if you disagree here, thats fine but no need to turn this into drama. Thanks!
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Well honestly ive always been leery about raids. Raiding in other games really ruined the game for me because it became a "schedule" and too much of a time "commitment" and I think people are afraid that it will turn into that.
Personally though, I think if they kept the dungeon much like the current ones, maybe more like CN, it would be a HUGE hit and people wouldnt feel the need to really be "committed" to certain time slots.
I think that is what scares people in NWO.
Maybe the length/duration of TWO CN runs together, except that none of the trash/mobs/ bosses reset or respawn during the week so it gives you a week to finish it.
It can either be a "hard serverside" reset. Or literally just a week from when you start either way...
So people can log on, clear 1 boss in 30-45 min. Leave and come back the next day or time they can...
People should get "locked" to that zone however and im not sure how hard that would be to pull off...
This would give the best of both as I know its hard to get even 10 ppl online coordinated to play. But raids would be a HUGE plus to this game and make people think more about build synergys too!
Also legendary items being very powerful and very hard to acquire... sounds exactly like tene's to me, which you are completely against no?
Will you disable the use of legendary items in PvP? If so why would I waste the time getting one lol?
Cryptic is not going to leave out their paying customers so they would inevitably make a payable way to get your legendary faster right?
Ah but this time it's ok because everyone can farm it and has access to it, it works for all classes, and it's very hard to acquire, oh wait...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
i have posted this many times, but if you reference the IRC chat with andy velazquez, they have discussed new pve and pvp content but it was way too early in development to make any announcements... which means that they have some ideas they're kicking around but you won't see for a while. maybe before, with or after module 3 would be my guess.
and it's not like anything that the OP has written up hasn't already been said here before. or that these ideas have likely already been discussed considering a lot (if not all) of the devs/employees of a gaming company are probably gamers.
but... it makes for a nice wish list.
But you have to see it from cryptics standpoint as well. Who is putting more money into their game, the 12 hour a day player or the 2 hour a day player with a full time job?
Should more play be rewarded? Of course. But as a F2P game they have to keep a model that allows plenty of enjoyment for those that spend money over time.
I'm saying this simply to say that it's inevitable that legendary items will be able to be acquired easier via money, and therefore this will turn into the exact same debate as tene's, it is the nature of F2P.
What I find funny is that making new items that are slightly easier to achieve than tene's (because no cash transaction is required) are just fine, but tene's are bad simply because they are very strong and very hard to acquire. At least I know what the next nerf thread in the forums will be if this is implemented.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I dont want to turn this into a tene thread my friend... Legendaries would be strong but not something pierces through all DR and deflect and cannot be dodged (you can see my thread about theoretical designs). It was not working like all other sources of necro damage were in the game so clearly not working as intended there can we just leave that as is please.
Onto the legitimacy of your points I agree 100% about raids. Which is Why I think a LESS time consuming raid (like 3 hours total a week) and LESS of a player commitment (maybe 10? instead of 25-40) Would alleviate alot of the pain revolved around raiding and making it a second job. I for one agree with you 100% that it shouldnt be that way but the "epic-ness" of these dungeons is long gone.
I am really excited about the new patch but I know in about 1-2 months people will have farmed that and all the boons etc... and wanting more. The more can be seen in these categories and I hope they address them, because adding more 5 mans just wont cut it and adding more dailies wont either.
I feel that there shouldn't be tier 3 gear for a long, long time, and even then, it has to be introduced to the game with caution. Continuous power creep (increasing power levels throughout the life of a game) has ruined a lot of games by enlarging the gap between the haves and the have-nots.
What I'd like to see, however, are more tier 1 and tier 2 items and handful of tier 2.5 items, which would be limited to main hand and off hand items. Basically, Neverwinter should go the route that Team Fortress 2 has taken and give us sidegrades instead of straight upgrades. There shouldn't be a clear choice when it comes to gearing your character; there should be multiple valid gearing options instead of the handful that we have right now.
Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...
Oh ok, so the this isn't the very first legendary on your list then?
I am not disagreeing with more powerful items, what I am pointing out is that on one hand you say something that is powerful and hard to achieve is OP, and then on the other hand you say it's not.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Interesting and valid points. The power (not stat) scaling has already begun with the artifacts and expansions. I hear what you are saying with the "haves" and "have-nots" although part of the issue is that in NWO people can get max lvl so fast and get T2 gear so fast... its not like a "constant progression" and I think thats what makes people bored...
You know.. There is an easy way to fix that power scale.... Put in defensive scaling as well... More HP, more DR, etc...
I agree with you that they should offer MORE T1/T2 items that fit more diverse builds... That would provide upgrades in other ways...
The biggest thing is its always a "carrot on a stick" mentality. There will be the few that HAVE the carrot, ALOT of players that want the carrot, and some who dont even see the carrot....
Right now ALOT of people have the carrot and thats part of the issue. The new artifacts are more "carrots" the new gear and boons are "carrots" and the new PVE instance are "carrots" but all of that seems to not be a lasting thing... in that it doesnt take long to get through it all....
Yeah and look at the damage on the weapon, its very low... So its a sacrifice to have that type of thing and I laid out in a post below how having decent arp and a bronze wood does the SAME thing. AND it can be dodged.... and its not buffed by stacking defensive stats (like hp)
Not to mention the item has NO weapon enchant... So how about this. You can have tenes the old system if you dont have a weapon enchant, fair deal? lol. I hope you can see the tradeoff there...
Lol you really don't see the OP'ness of this but you think tene's are too strong? are you serious?
The new meta would contain 2 Dwarf GF's with full Str/Con build b/c dex is unneeded as you have 100% ArP AND you ignore deflect. You could easily get huge crit chance and still achieve 12k+ power b/c again you have absolute max ArP for free. You would be able to kill any class except GWF in 1 rotation, and GWF would simply take 2. Just imagine knights challenge with a 30%+ crit chance and 0 damage reduction with 0% chance of deflect for your target, GF's would slaughter everyone simply because of this item.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Its just a suggestion, no need to flame LOL!
You do realize that 1 weapon damage the equiv of about 5 damage which is about 25 power. so losing 250+ weapon damage is ALOT of power you have to make up, just to make up the damage lost, like 6k+....
Like I said before, its just an option or something that could be fun. I already told you I have 46.6% arp including my Bronzewood and thats WITH 6 Tenes slotted... So I already ignore almost all of DR on anyone id fight. Not to mention mark reduced DR by 8% so now im at 54.6% - DR.... And thats with Formorian weapons.
That sword would also only be good against High DR targets but not help out at all against lower DR targets like CW/TR. It would actually make your damage worse, so its all about a tradeoff. Not to mention, NO weapon enchant slot and NO weapon set bonus...
So think about it this way. It gives you "maxed" arp which allows a full str roll which gives a damage boost, you can stack crit, but with no vorpal thats a big hit to your damage. YOu can stack power and with 6 * 300 = 1800 power doubled to 3600 but thats HALF the damage lost on your weapon...
So anyway I slice this, its seems like a powerful weapon but not insanely OP. I mean your encounter damage alone would drop about 24% or more just from the weapon damage loss alone. Then making that up via Str/Power would not be bad, but that gets you bad to breakeven at best...
I think there are is a TON of potential in this game, however The main areas in the OP are the biggest areas on concern and room for improvement I think.
But it sounds like you are describing a situation where I would attempt to complete a dungeon over a week's time or so, with a group from which I wouldn't be allowed to leave. I'm sorry, I can't support that - I only have enough time as it is during the week to do 4 or 5 dungeons, and with the failure rate of dungeon runs as it stands now, I'm lucky if even one of those is successful. It would be even worse if it would have to take me an entire month just to finish one raid-style dungeon.
Seems like you'd be permanently locking out the semi-casual player.
Raids aren't necessarily that insane.
Usually they are quests with a larger party than normal and often require special strategies and coordination. They can be harder for casual players, but some raids (such as DDO) aren't necessarily that much longer than a "standard" dungeon. This is even more the case as people become more experienced running them and know how to best direct their efforts, sometimes splitting the party to accomplish multiple goals simultaneously. Some raids even have that as a part of the mechanic.
Raids are generally unfriendly to working adults' schedules, and F2P games depend on that demographic to keep the servers running (no matter how much players seem to believe that there are thousands of children with wealthy, negligent parents casually supporting the game). Raids can be fun if done well, but there are many games out there that offer that experience, and NW is clearly built around small-party mechanics, at least at this stage in its development.
On a side note, this game is NW. There is no "NWO". Small nitpick, but months after the game's launch, it keeps coming up for some strange reason.
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Yeah I get where the anti-raid crowd is coming from. I am right there with you!
Its not that you cant leave the party, its that the instance gets "saved" to your character and any other character who kills a boss in your "raid".
Hypothetical:
Raid dungeon has 5 bosses.
Your group, call it "G1" Goes and kills bosses 1 and 2 in the first night. It took 1 hour to do, now your tired and go to bed. Get up the next morning and lo and behold you have 7 people from your group last night who are on and want to run it more. You spam zone chat for 2 pugs, pick them up and get rolling...
Now lets call this "G2" 8 of the same initial players and 2 new ones.
G2 has a hard time because the pugs and kills only boss #3. You call it a day. Two days later your initial group of 10 is back on, you guys log and grind out the last two bosses with G1 again.
Now, the two pugs are saved to your instance so anytime they log into that zone, the bosses are done for that week. If they dont want to get saved to an instance all they needed to do was not defeat a boss. Simple.
After the week is up, the dungeon fully resets and off you go again.
This keeps it casual, keeps it simple because its 10 players and not 40+.
It can be made even simpler, rather than making the raid against a full dungeon just do it against a single boss encounter like Gravitar from CO or the Crystaline Entity from STO.
EDIT: This is mainly because in order for the saved bosses to a. work correctly and b. not take up masses of space on the server, it'd need to be a new instance after each boss. Any MMO designer will tell you that when designing content for a lot of players at once, you want to reduce the amount of loading screens to a minimum (i.e. In a perfect world 1 loading screen)
It would eliminate the need to micromanage one's profession resources, for one. It would also cut down on the amount of ingame mail one needs to send the right items to the right characters.
Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...
I'm sorry, what about normal and epic 5 man dungeons then? Aren't they cookie-cutter?!? NWO level of uniqueness? Somewhere around 0.0001%.
No. Raids, dungeons etc. do not belong to a specific game. They belong in the RPG/MMO genre. It's OK to have them in NWO, nothing wrong with it. The important thing is that they are done right.
If not for raids, at least another level of dungeons or achievements for killing bosses in a difficult manner, with better rewards and stuff. But make the dungeons harder not my increasing mob numbers/HP, but by giving them new, dangerous abilities (hint: not AoE red circles...).
I agree with wanting account-wide storage. I've mentioned it it before, but in Champions Online, they tied account storage into player housing, (called hideouts there). I'd love to see something similar implemented here - especially if you could access it from anywhere, (like you can in Champions), and if it also had access to amenities like the auction house, a mailbox, access to the guild bank, and so on.
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Personally, I hope they don't wait until they add player housing to add account banks.
Well, tying account storage to player housing adds value to it. Also, in CO the hideouts were account-wide, which made them even more attractive!
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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Yes, I know how they worked in CO. But account banks is something we need now not maybe a year down the line.