I've been trying to use other abilities during matches that demand different playstyles, but it's hard to do that when I only pug. I'm not really in a guild (I am technically in one now, but that was just so I could get into gg), nor have been since beta started . Since players in pug matches are typically average (not taking the inexperienced and very strong pug players into account here) there isn't as much a demand for me to switch abilities a lot. I usually run impact/itc/lashing and will switch out either itc or impact for dazing if I feel it's necessary. I also do have to occasionally bring shadow strike to remain in stealth longer for certain backcapping situations.
(Edit: I think I just indirectly called myself better-than-average when I said "Since players in pug matches are typically average...". Didn't mean to make it sound that way. I have no idea if I'm any good or not)
I'm a firm believer in versatility of gameplay. It makes the matches more player vs. player than build vs. build (unless it's a fresh 60 against a perfect vorpal, rank 12 [yes, 12 ] player). Yes, I just used double brackets.
(Edit 2: I should've read/remembered one of your earlier posts that said you didn't have the full set yet. My bad, but the below is still relevant anyway)
I've also been wondering if it would be good to stick with the full t2 pvp set instead of 2/2 pvp and fabled. The upside to 4/4 skulker is the additional arpen and hp. The hp can help benefit the regen that is now being stacked. The longer stealth and stealth damage is nice, but not too noticeable in a build not focused around staying in stealth. The downside is losing a lot of power that the Fabled would've given. I'm pretty sure apren > power, but it depends on the amounts given and taken for each. So, 4/4 skulker gives 558 more arpen and the 2/2 set gives 1018 power. As far as I can tell, the arpen will equal more damage than the 1018 power. I don't know that for certain, but that sounds correct. So, the arpen in addition to hp seems to make the full skulker set seem, theoretically, better to me. Any thoughts on this?
(Edit 3: I need to stop editing. I just realized my math on the amount of arpen is bogus. My bad. I fixed it.)
I've been trying to use other abilities during matches that demand different playstyles, but it's hard to do that when I only pug. I'm not really in a guild (I am technically in one now, but that was just so I could get into gg), nor have been since beta started . Since players in pug matches are typically average (not taking the inexperienced and very strong pug players into account here) there isn't as much a demand for me to switch abilities a lot. I usually run impact/itc/lashing and will switch out either itc or impact for dazing if I feel it's necessary. I also do have to occasionally bring shadow strike to remain in stealth longer for certain backcapping situations.
(Edit: I think I just indirectly called myself better-than-average when I said "Since players in pug matches are typically average...". Didn't mean to make it sound that way. I have no idea if I'm any good or not)
I'm a firm believer in versatility of gameplay. It makes the matches more player vs. player than build vs. build (unless it's a fresh 60 against a perfect vorpal, rank 12 [yes, 12 ] player). Yes, I just used double brackets.
(Edit 2: I should've read/remembered one of your earlier posts that said you didn't have the full set yet. My bad, but the below is still relevant anyway)
I've also been wondering if it would be good to stick with the full t2 pvp set instead of 2/2 pvp and fabled. The upside to 4/4 skulker is the additional arpen and hp. The hp can help benefit the regen that is now being stacked. The longer stealth and stealth damage is nice, but not too noticeable in a build not focused around staying in stealth. The downside is losing a lot of power that the Fabled would've given. I'm pretty sure apren > power, but it depends on the amounts given and taken for each. So, 4/4 skulker gives 558 more arpen and the 2/2 set gives 1018 power. As far as I can tell, the arpen will equal more damage than the 1018 power. I don't know that for certain, but that sounds correct. So, the arpen in addition to hp seems to make the full skulker set seem, theoretically, better to me. Any thoughts on this?
(Edit 3: I need to stop editing. I just realized my math on the amount of arpen is bogus. My bad. I fixed it.)
As of right now I'm missing the arms for Skulkers..Have yet to try it out. I'll post back when I get the full set
The way I best like to play this build is with ITC, shadow strike, impact shot with duelist fury and cloud of steel. A key to remember when playing this build is you get feats which increase crit severity while stealthed, as well as increased effectiveness of combat advantage if you should chose these feats. Since deflect rogues get their deflect from CHA, they also gain combat advantage damage from the CHA stat, and this makes damage while stealthed incredibly better when combined with the two feats in addition to normal combat advantage bonuses gained from attacking in stealth. (While attacking from stealth, you always have combat advantage). This could further be effective if you take the feat giving extra at will damage when not being targeted.
For these reasons I believe shadow strike is pretty important. It would probably work better using sky flourish so that you could make sure you get some good hits in before you break stealth, but I like duelist fury for taking out more tanker individuals. This may be something I consider changing in the future as I get more damage on the build.
Also regen is key. If you want good regen, you can get rings for over 400 regen from the Pegasus seal vendor that are bind on pickup and for rogue only. They also have a good belt, but there is a better one "smiting" belt you can get in the AH which is also just for rogues, but has about 36 more regen.
For weapons I'd recommend Caldera Blade and Crystal dagger. Both daggers have good regen. Caldera blade can be found from running Karru normal. It drops from the first boss. Crystal dagger you want the epic version, which is from the second Dread Vault boss. I am not sure if this is also bind on pickup, but I know Caldera Blade is. I haven't seen any epic crystal blades in the AH recently. Another good weapon is dagger of aryvandaar. I am still debating whether I would prefer this to caldera blade or not since it lacks regen, but grants arm pen, deflect, and life steal, in addition to a little more damage. However, especially if you go itc, shadow strike, you will be able to heal a lot with the regen. For this reason I am currently leaning towards using Caldera Blade.
The individual who introduced me to this build is sitting around 40% deflect, 1.7k regen, and 1.7k lifesteal, and around I believe 25% defense. I know he likes to use at least deflect pot though, so this would be with ~40% with the pot (~300 extra deflect). Wish I could tell you his armpen too, he does use tenes though and high rank enchants, but this is just to show what its capable of :P (You can go regen without much sacrifice to other stats, but you will fall a bit short on arm pen or extra deflect. You will not be weak though since skulker/glory set will naturally give u lots of arm pen. In addition once you start getting vorpal your damage goes up because you still maintain around 40% crit as well if you go dex/cha)
Another tip for getting the life steal is to not go with the conventional 4 piece skulkers, but do 2 piece skulkers and 2 piece glory set. This is not a hard tip to see though so I'm sure people going with this build already knew that one, but I thought id add it.
There is also a bloodied frostwolf pelt out there somewhere for a neck item that gives regen as well as lifesteal. This is probably from an epic or normal wolf den dungeon run, and most likely bind on pickup seeing as I haven't been able to find this on the AH either.
Just some quick tips. Might as well give them out now that the build is going public :P Plus I'm banking on everyone going Hunter soon regardless lol. Which is my plan too anyway since it will require more strategy/interaction/creative building to be good at :P
Also regen is key. If you want good regen, you can get rings for over 400 regen from the Pegasus seal vendor that are bind on pickup and for rogue only. They also have a good belt, but there is a better one "smiting" belt you can get in the AH which is also just for rogues, but has about 36 more regen.
Just a reminder,
Seal of the Executioner from Pegasus Vendor no longer gives regen stat but critical instead.
There is a weaker version of it on Auction, which gives about 300+ regen, but I have no idea where its dropped.
Seal of the Executioner from Pegasus Vendor no longer gives regen stat but critical instead.
There is a weaker version of it on Auction, which gives about 300+ regen, but I have no idea where its dropped.
Technically, the Seal of the Executioner from the seal vendor is critical now, yes. However, there is a Ring of Preservation that gives 408 regen and a defense slot available at the seal vendor, as well. Also, there is another Seal of the Executioner that gives ~384 (from the top of my head) regen and an offense slot that can be bought for 41k ad at the accessories merchant that is next to the Pegasus Seal vendor. The ad merchant, not the gold one. I don't know of many people who know about this ring. It only gives 100 less regen than the original Seal of the Executioner and is infinitely cheaper now.
Technically, the Seal of the Executioner from the seal vendor is critical now, yes. However, there is a Ring of Preservation that gives 408 regen and a defense slot available at the seal vendor, as well. Also, there is another Seal of the Executioner that gives ~384 (from the top of my head) regen and an offense slot that can be bought for 41k ad at the accessories merchant that is next to the Pegasus Seal vendor. The ad merchant, not the gold one. I don't know of many people who know about this ring. It only gives 100 less regen than the original Seal of the Executioner and is infinitely cheaper now.
I hope this helps! :cool:
This is correct. It is also worth noting that the 384 regen rings come with an offensive slot, while the 408 regen rings come with a defensive slot.
If I ever do come back to this character though after hunter release, I plan to swap out the 2 feats from the middle tree for extra combat advantage boost and chance to deal damage on non-crits for the feat from the top path which gives stealth per hit. Essentially it will perform as a permastealth build, only with extra deflect. Again, this is based off of the fact that CHA adds deflect and combat advantage damage. Since one would always be in stealth, it is essentially equivalent to putting the points in STR, only you get deflect instead of other unnecessary effects (I believe stamina regen speed and something else maybe?)
Really good damage on gloaming since the update. Looks nice especially for his only lesser vorpal and not even cracking 2k arm pen. Also, only 1.2k recovery. Still leaves room for deflect enchants for sure.
It was nice to play a few matches with you Quite lucky, since it was a pug grouping. I'm not sure if you recognized me (probably not), but I was playing Hope.
Seeing videos and actually seeing the spec in action are two different things. I must say, you were impressive. Good job!
What do you think of the new soulforged? I'm not sure what to make of it.
Soulforged Armor: These enchantments have been reworked. When you die you are resurrected, healing you for 20/22.5/25/27.5% of average player health and healed for an additional 10/12.5/15/17.5% of average player health over 3 seconds. This effect may only occur every 90 seconds.
It has pros and cons, but I can't really say if it's better for this spec than the old because I never had a soulforged enchant. I level too many alts and never gave any of them enchants :rolleyes:
This is correct. It is also worth noting that the 384 regen rings come with an offensive slot, while the 408 regen rings come with a defensive slot.
If I ever do come back to this character though after hunter release, I plan to swap out the 2 feats from the middle tree for extra combat advantage boost and chance to deal damage on non-crits for the feat from the top path which gives stealth per hit. Essentially it will perform as a permastealth build, only with extra deflect. Again, this is based off of the fact that CHA adds deflect and combat advantage damage. Since one would always be in stealth, it is essentially equivalent to putting the points in STR, only you get deflect instead of other unnecessary effects (I believe stamina regen speed and something else maybe?)
Really good damage on gloaming since the update. Looks nice especially for his only lesser vorpal and not even cracking 2k arm pen. Also, only 1.2k recovery. Still leaves room for deflect enchants for sure.
Glad you liked the video one more thing I focused on my rogue STR stamina regeneration because of not wanting to invest in INT moreover u will have to be focused on feats facing this
Hey, is there any way I can build high deflect rogue with Skulker set?
Also, I am 30k hp rogue with 900 defence atm so... Is stacking pure hp better than deflect stat?
shy-nee@ryvengrothexplorer here! You may find me on gateway and give better recommendations if you wish
Thanks in advance.
Yes.
I'm not getting my deflect from my gear, I'm getting it from enchanting my defensive slots with Silverys, feats, and racial bonus from being a halfling.
I would highly reccomend getting the regen gear with that kind of health you have it will be amazing
I'm not getting my deflect from my gear, I'm getting it from enchanting my defensive slots with Silverys, feats, and racial bonus from being a halfling.
I would highly reccomend getting the regen gear with that kind of health you have it will be amazing
Well, yeah, I am tiefling and can't have +3% to deflect from my racial feats
Still, I am thinking of placing ability scores from strength to charisma. Will lose some damage but oh well.
I had been using high HP/Regen for some time with success, but it was still missing sustainability. So, I am really looking forward to using this hybrid. I had made some minor changes to the build you linked on the first page. Because I am a wood elf, the one benefit that I do have (with the exception of a bed full of women) is the added crit chance. So, i moved 5 points from 'Critical Teamwork' to 'Nimble Blade'. This essentially gives ALL of my attacks that don't crit a 20% increase in damage 35% of the time. Thats huge.
After reworking ability score, enchants, and equipment, I have about 40% crit, 30% deflect, 10% lifesteal, 10% regen, 27k HP. This is with 4/4 Skulkers
Also Alysin, I noticed you dont use Elixirs except for Heroism. Foehammers not only adds the 300 deflect, it more importantly adds 10% deflect severity, which drops damage taken from deflections from 25% to 15%. Imagine that for an increase in your tankyness. Also, steadfast for defense, and wildstorm for crit chance and severity would be huge for this build.
Now, the fun part of this build is the different strategy's you could implement. I too, will be using ItC, Lashing, Impact..First Strike/Skillfull..DF/CoS. With this you get a massive opener and tremendous sustainability. However, 'Brutal Backstab' gets lost in this setup with the exception of the opener. This feat has so much potential it should and can be utilized more with two different setups. The fist one keeps everything the same, but swaps ItC with ShadowStrike. This leaves you the big opener, but allows you to get back into stealth for a 25% severity increast to both Duelists furry AND your second stealth encounter. So, you could stealth --open with Impact (first strike/BrutalBS), Duelists, ShadowStrike--ReStealth--Duelist (BrutalBS)--Lashing (BrutalBS). This of course assumes that your target is even still alive through half of that or multiple targets.
The other strategy would be to swap ShadowStrike for Lashing, keep ITC and Impact. Swap First Strike with Tenacious Concealment. This gives you a more sustained damage and incredible survivability. Humans with 4/4 Skulkers 4/5 improved Cunning Sneak would see huge benefits from this setup.
"If you don't know who I am, then maybe your best course would be to tread lightly" -- Walter White
wildstorm for crit chance and severity would be huge for this build.
You have to be careful with that elixir. I do not believe it works as you expect if you already have a Vorpal. From light testing on my CW and GF, I do not believe it stacks with existing Critical Severity buffs. If anything it may even affect the range of crits available since on both my CW and GF I got some crits with implied base damage lower than that of the tooltip for that Power!
Here is my point of view about this build, as one of the elite best TR's on this game :
First of all, u are talking about adding some defense, i dont agree with that. Most of the things can still armor pen u for 100%, i really see no reasons at all for that.
Stacking deflect is fun no doubts, those lashing blades and ice knifes that should hit for 25k would hit for nothing, but its not like deflect will work all the time, u have about 60% chance of ur deflect being completely useless.
Stacking life and regen is far away better, will forever be far away better than stacking deflect. High hp is something that works and save u 100% of the time, not about %, luck, etc. And the more HP u got higher ur regen ticks will be.
I got 32k HP on my tr with 7 offense slots, yes SEVEN, i could go up to 35k or so easly if i want without changing much. Regen ticks of 1.5k, it can go up to 1.7k or so, its almost 9 sec of stealth + 4 of ITC, do the math u can regen the **** up so fast.
Beside that on ur videos u are just killing bad pugs(and a premade of pugs with guild tag), it dont really show nothing, and u would never be able to use this kind of power combination against any good team cuz u will get melted. Any kind of high level pvp requires shadow strike, its a fact, there is no other way to be a top TR without playing the "stealth warrior" build.
Ok now make a list of this small and clear facts :
As a high HP tr u can get about 10k life more than u currently have if u want. U will have more DPS as well (i got 20% armor pen with that regen, that life, and 7 greater tenes) either using tenes or regular armPen/power/whateverUwant enchants, u will get WAY higher regen ticks...
All that against something that has 60% chance of fail and do nothing? tsc tsc tsc..
I can do a friendly demonstration on the game if u want as im sure ANY TR on my guild would probably beat u 10-0 with the current setup/loudout that u are showing on this thread, or we can do it even more fun and play some premades to see how our stuff really works on the pvp :P
Hit me up if u want, u will know where to find me.
Blacksheep, <Enemy Team>.
*Edit -I forgot to mention, u can get about 25% deflect with the insane high HP/Regen build as well if u want ^_^
Any kind of high level pvp requires shadow strike, its a fact, there is no other way to be a top TR without playing the "stealth warrior" build.
I have seen plenty of devastating top TRs, especially those from Lemonade Stand (past and present), who either do not use Shadow Strike or do not slot it permanently.
Apart from that, I agree your build in general is highly optimized for premades and, of course, we all know how very successful you are with it. I do not believe that this thread is intended to be for premades, though. Still, will be interesting to see OP's response.
Here is my point of view about this build, as one of the elite best TR's on this game :
First of all, u are talking about adding some defense, i dont agree with that. Most of the things can still armor pen u for 100%, i really see no reasons at all for that.
Stacking deflect is fun no doubts, those lashing blades and ice knifes that should hit for 25k would hit for nothing, but its not like deflect will work all the time, u have about 60% chance of ur deflect being completely useless.
Stacking life and regen is far away better, will forever be far away better than stacking deflect. High hp is something that works and save u 100% of the time, not about %, luck, etc. And the more HP u got higher ur regen ticks will be.
I got 32k HP on my tr with 7 offense slots, yes SEVEN, i could go up to 35k or so easly if i want without changing much. Regen ticks of 1.5k, it can go up to 1.7k or so, its almost 9 sec of stealth + 4 of ITC, do the math u can regen the **** up so fast.
Beside that on ur videos u are just killing bad pugs(and a premade of pugs with guild tag), it dont really show nothing, and u would never be able to use this kind of power combination against any good team cuz u will get melted. Any kind of high level pvp requires shadow strike, its a fact, there is no other way to be a top TR without playing the "stealth warrior" build.
Ok now make a list of this small and clear facts :
As a high HP tr u can get about 10k life more than u currently have if u want. U will have more DPS as well (i got 20% armor pen with that regen, that life, and 7 greater tenes) either using tenes or regular armPen/power/whateverUwant enchants, u will get WAY higher regen ticks...
All that against something that has 60% chance of fail and do nothing? tsc tsc tsc..
I can do a friendly demonstration on the game if u want as im sure ANY TR on my guild would probably beat u 10-0 with the current setup/loudout that u are showing on this thread, or we can do it even more fun and play some premades to see how our stuff really works on the pvp :P
Hit me up if u want, u will know where to find me.
Blacksheep, <Enemy Team>.
*Edit -I forgot to mention, u can get about 25% deflect with the insane high HP/Regen build as well if u want ^_^
I'm not even sure if you are trying to be serious with this post or if you really are as inadequate as your statements. There are too many holes in your response to go through all of them. You should know (or you would had you actually read the contents of this thread), that the build does incorporate the use of health regen. I also am not sure where you got the idea that stacking defense was portrayed anywhere in the current thread. We are all quite aware of how arm pen works.
Also, most of the deflection comes from feats, ability scores, and racial traits. Again, you would know this had you put even a minute into the design of the build. as far as your stats. 32khp with only 2 defensive enchantment slots, I'm also currious how you obtained 20% armpen using zero offensive slots and two seal of executioner rings (I assume you must have these considering you have regen and 7 offensive slots, right?)--Well, I have 27k hp, 33% Deflect, 20% damage reduction, 20% armpen, 9.5 regen, 9.5% lifesteal. So essentially I will be deflecting 1/3 off all attacks (in which armpen doesnt matter), and i have about the same offensive stats as you.
However, please enlighten us all on how you obtain 32k hp with 2 def slots, and 20% armpen without slotting.
"If you don't know who I am, then maybe your best course would be to tread lightly" -- Walter White
I have seen plenty of devastating top TRs, especially those from Lemonade Stand (past and present), who either do not use Shadow Strike or do not slot it permanently.
Apart from that, I agree your build in general is highly optimized for premades and, of course, we all know how very successful you are with it. I do not believe that this thread is intended to be for premades, though. Still, will be interesting to see OP's response.
Nah, bro, nah. We all was "devastating top TR's" without shadow strike months ago, as u can see on my old video of almost 3 months ago : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6nLETM70AI&noredirect=1
Up to 60k crits on PvP on lashing blade, impact shots of 12-15k, etc. Its not viable anymore today, everyone is stacking tankiness somehow, while still having good dps. If u dont kill with ur lashing and whatever else u are using, and u have NO shadow strike, what u gonna do? run on circles? Its not viable, it will not work.
About those "devastating top tr's from Lemonade Stand", Noone of them will EVER play an important premade without shadow strike, thats 100% sure, as i said, we all did it one day, months ago, not anymore.
And well, what the point of introducing an build to the public if its not to premades? I saw on his video that he is using Perfect Barkshield, a guy with perfect barkshield is not building his character to kill pugs.(And who does anyway?)
I'm not even sure if you are trying to be serious with this post or if you really are as inadequate as your statements. There are too many holes in your response to go through all of them. You should know (or you would had you actually read the contents of this thread), that the build does incorporate the use of health regen. I also am not sure where you got the idea that stacking defense was portrayed anywhere in the current thread. We are all quite aware of how arm pen works.
Also, most of the deflection comes from feats, ability scores, and racial traits. Again, you would know this had you put even a minute into the design of the build. as far as your stats. 32khp with only 2 defensive enchantment slots, I'm also currious how you obtained 20% armpen using zero offensive slots and two seal of executioner rings (I assume you must have these considering you have regen and 7 offensive slots, right?)--Well, I have 27k hp, 33% Deflect, 20% damage reduction, 20% armpen, 9.5 regen, 9.5% lifesteal. So essentially I will be deflecting 1/3 off all attacks (in which armpen doesnt matter), and i have about the same offensive stats as you.
However, please enlighten us all on how you obtain 32k hp with 2 def slots, and 20% armpen without slotting.
Lol.
Did u ever heard about 20 CON and radiant 10's? ;p
Yea 20% exactly armor pen, why would i lie? Lol, its not like i am a random unkown n.o.o.b, every top PvP player that play premades know my name.
Actually i had almost 33K Hp until 3 weeks ago or so, but i switched my neck/belt from HP/crit/armpen to Regen/crit/armpen, so right now i have "only" 31.9k.
How i got those stats? No secret bro, skulkers and any random neck/belt that gives u any random ammout of armor pen? lol
I wish that if u had 33% + deflect u would actually deflect 1 of 3 hits, u really think i never tried it? Its just not working like that, its %, its about luck.
Its very simple, something that its about luck vs something that works 100% of the time plus benefits other stats like regen as well.
And as i said on my first post, i can show whatever i say here on the game, talking is easy..
I'd like to see your equipment/ability score some time or at least a current video. The one you just linked shows a completely different rogue than what was just described.
"If you don't know who I am, then maybe your best course would be to tread lightly" -- Walter White
yea and why didnt u check the date of it as well? lol, the video is almost 3 months old, and it has nothing to do with my current TR, its not even the same character, i made a new TR, we was talking about "non shadow strike TR's", and i just showed that it was easy back then to be a God without using shadow strike and with 0 skill requeriment.
Once again, i do not have updated videos, i am using diferent gears/builds/strategy/powers/everything. (Im way better now)
We dont need videos, why videos when we can do it on live? i've being lazy to make videos as u can notice on my channel.
Get ur premade and lets play, u or anyone else on this thread, hit me up on the game, im always looking for premade since the game is so boring atm.
ps : if its sooo hard to believe that i can have such a good balance of stats, i dont mind of just going there and letting u inspect me on the game if u want.
My gear sheet now is much different then it was when I originally made this point. Somewhere in this post I made the comment that gear and builds, are ever evolving, and obviously mine has changed significantly.
I decided to try out regen in the last couple weeks, and its obvious why I changed.
I was stacking straight deflect and defense. Now I still have 33% deflect, but I added almost 9k more health, 10% regen, and brought my lifesteal up to 10% as well. My tankiness that I seen before, is twice as strong now.
My videos are with, and against premades. I generally Q solo because it seems its easier to find a decent match, so the majority of my videos are solo Q'ing.
Saying that my past gear set and choice of abilities against the TOP TR's I would get melted is a bit one sided however. I've beat every top TR that comes to mind, except you Black because I have only fought you in one match, and beat them all 1 vs 1 with my previous gear set, that's including BiS TR's, 7G-Tenes, Perfects/10's. It is however much easier now, then it was when I was just deflect.
Is straight deflect the way to go in the top level? I would say definitely not. It may help you in 1 fight, but premades are about living, not killing 1 guy then dieing immediately. Health > Regen > Deflect > Defense > Lifesteal in my opinion as a TR>
The comment about "having" to use Shadow Strike. I guess it depends honestly who you are playing. Having 10's perfects and all the fancy stuff doesn't mean you are a skilled player. There are quite a fiew TR's with that gear, that are laughable in PvP.
Lately I have been trying things I don't normally do, or use, and thinking outside the box so to speak.
I've been using ItC, Path of Blades and Shadow Strike, with Duelist Flurry and GLoaming Cut. Having a lot of success with it, and getting better at using that combination.
My normal set up now is ItC, Impact, Lashing. I switch out Lashing quite often for Shadow Strike. All depends who I end up fighting, if I'm pugging or in a Premade. Everything I chose to use is Situational for me.
Edit: I've also changed from a 2/2 2/2 piece, to using full Skulkers, as well as changing some of my feats around.
I guess my best advice to any TR that wants to be competitive against other top TR's is ask a lot of questions. Its ok not to be the best. Even if you think you are the best, theres going to be someone better, its just how it is. So take what you can from everyone you fight against.
Just use whatever allows you to have the most fun.
I'd like to see your equipment/ability score some time or at least a current video. The one you just linked shows a completely different rogue than what was just described.
Then use http://gateway.playneverwinter.com and replace your name with his full name in the Character Sheet, e.g. Blacksheep@donblacksheep.
@Black. What are your plans when they change the way Tenebrous works? As of right now you are completely dependant on them for damage. When they take into account Defense and Deflect, against tanky types your damage is going to disappear. Curious what your plans are, or going to stick it out with Tenes and see how they work?
Well i did my coments based on the first post of the thread, couldnt really inspect u on the gateway since the gateway was down.
Having 30% deflect is ok, u dont really have to sacrifice THAT much to get it, but 40% + its too much..
As i said, i probably tried out everything that is possible to try out as a TR on this game, i had 30% + deflect, i just cant see it worth to spend whatever stats/items u need for it, but thats me, my own opinion.
U can easly get 25% deflect without anything extra, i just dont think the extra 5% of what u have to exchange into deflect to get that 30% + worth it, thats my point.
I am completely dependant on tenes to deal damage, are u sure?
I crit 7-10k impact shots, i am extremly good on duelist flurry, i would not say that i am dependant on tenes to deal damage.
ANYWAYS, with all the new stuff coming on like boons and artifacts, ill probably get my softcap on armor pen without using any darks, i really dont need any more defense slots, i can survive just fine, so its basicaly, Power/Recovery VS Tenes? easy choice
Power is kinda garbage imo, if i stack power/recovery what im getting, ohhh maybe more 1.5-2k crits top more on IS, and/or 1.7sec less CD on my powers? lol
Tenes will always be tenes.
ps : I am rich. I got rank 10's to swap if i do need them.
Well i did my coments based on the first post of the thread, couldnt really inspect u on the gateway since the gateway was down.
Having 30% deflect is ok, u dont really have to sacrifice THAT much to get it, but 40% + its too much..
As i said, i probably tried out everything that is possible to try out as a TR on this game, i had 30% + deflect, i just cant see it worth to spend whatever stats/items u need for it, but thats me, my own opinion.
U can easly get 25% deflect without anything extra, i just dont think the extra 5% of what u have to exchange into deflect to get that 30% + worth it, thats my point.
I am completely dependant on tenes to deal damage, are u sure?
I crit 7-10k impact shots, i am extremly good on duelist flurry, i would not say that i am dependant on tenes to deal damage.
ANYWAYS, with all the new stuff coming on like boons and artifacts, ill probably get my softcap on armor pen without using any darks, i really dont need any more defense slots, i can survive just fine, so its basicaly, Power/Recovery VS Tenes? easy choice
Power is kinda garbage imo, if i stack power/recovery what im getting, ohhh maybe more 1.5-2k crits top more on IS, and/or 1.7sec less CD on my powers? lol
Tenes will always be tenes.
ps : I am rich. I got rank 10's to swap if i do need them.
Yup and I totally agree. I had 41.8% deflect and it was obvious, think the biggest I ever took was around 19k from a perfect, and that was because I was proned. Problem I ran into, was sustainability in multiple fights back to back. Obviously not having any regen was getting me killed. So I changed. I'm at 31-33% deflect right now, without slotting any Silverys. I don't think I'll change my feats up and get rid of the 3/3 one for Deflect..atleast not right now.
Far as the Tenes, I know its not "all" your damage, but its an overwhelming majority of it. Against the squishier types and folks that aren't gearing defensively it'll be the same, but against someone who built themselves for defense. That tene damage is going to be very, very small. Me for example. I was fighting Kitty 1 vs 1, and winning with my previous set up of just deflect. She won more because she had the damage from Tenes, plus her regen. But now, after the supposed change, those Tenes will be but a scratch on me, if that, now that I myself am using Regen, and Barkshield.
We'll have to get together sometime here soon when Mod 2 and these changes come out. Would love to test some things doing 1 vs 1. Where is Khelzor(sp?) btw? Normally I get a couple 1 vs 1's against him during my play time, haven't seen him in fiew weeks.
Far as the Tenes, I know its not "all" your damage, but its an overwhelming majority of it.
All combat log parses I have ever heard of on G.Tenes amount to 20-50% damage at most and it is only significant because of the burst, but hardly overwhelming majority, especially in premades where everyone is built ultra defensively.
If you do not know how to play, or your build or playstyle has bad synergy with or without Tenes, you will be steamrolled by anyone with a clue. You even said yourself that you beat most other TRs, even when they had Tenes.
Regardless, of what build he uses, Blacksheep is far better than most TRs I have seen. Also, the Tene nerf would affect all who have it simultaneously. So, nothing has changed relatively. I suspect some Tene users will switch to higher rank Darks though because the only difficulty they have killing targets are from tanky targets. They can otherwise kill CWs in their sleep and it is only skill/experience that enables consistently taking out other TRs.
Comments
(Edit: I think I just indirectly called myself better-than-average when I said "Since players in pug matches are typically average...". Didn't mean to make it sound that way. I have no idea if I'm any good or not)
I'm a firm believer in versatility of gameplay. It makes the matches more player vs. player than build vs. build (unless it's a fresh 60 against a perfect vorpal, rank 12 [yes, 12
(Edit 2: I should've read/remembered one of your earlier posts that said you didn't have the full set yet. My bad, but the below is still relevant anyway)
I've also been wondering if it would be good to stick with the full t2 pvp set instead of 2/2 pvp and fabled. The upside to 4/4 skulker is the additional arpen and hp. The hp can help benefit the regen that is now being stacked. The longer stealth and stealth damage is nice, but not too noticeable in a build not focused around staying in stealth. The downside is losing a lot of power that the Fabled would've given. I'm pretty sure apren > power, but it depends on the amounts given and taken for each. So, 4/4 skulker gives 558 more arpen and the 2/2 set gives 1018 power. As far as I can tell, the arpen will equal more damage than the 1018 power. I don't know that for certain, but that sounds correct. So, the arpen in addition to hp seems to make the full skulker set seem, theoretically, better to me. Any thoughts on this?
(Edit 3: I need to stop editing. I just realized my math on the amount of arpen is bogus. My bad. I fixed it.)
As of right now I'm missing the arms for Skulkers..Have yet to try it out. I'll post back when I get the full set
Essence of Aggression
For these reasons I believe shadow strike is pretty important. It would probably work better using sky flourish so that you could make sure you get some good hits in before you break stealth, but I like duelist fury for taking out more tanker individuals. This may be something I consider changing in the future as I get more damage on the build.
Also regen is key. If you want good regen, you can get rings for over 400 regen from the Pegasus seal vendor that are bind on pickup and for rogue only. They also have a good belt, but there is a better one "smiting" belt you can get in the AH which is also just for rogues, but has about 36 more regen.
For weapons I'd recommend Caldera Blade and Crystal dagger. Both daggers have good regen. Caldera blade can be found from running Karru normal. It drops from the first boss. Crystal dagger you want the epic version, which is from the second Dread Vault boss. I am not sure if this is also bind on pickup, but I know Caldera Blade is. I haven't seen any epic crystal blades in the AH recently. Another good weapon is dagger of aryvandaar. I am still debating whether I would prefer this to caldera blade or not since it lacks regen, but grants arm pen, deflect, and life steal, in addition to a little more damage. However, especially if you go itc, shadow strike, you will be able to heal a lot with the regen. For this reason I am currently leaning towards using Caldera Blade.
The individual who introduced me to this build is sitting around 40% deflect, 1.7k regen, and 1.7k lifesteal, and around I believe 25% defense. I know he likes to use at least deflect pot though, so this would be with ~40% with the pot (~300 extra deflect). Wish I could tell you his armpen too, he does use tenes though and high rank enchants, but this is just to show what its capable of :P (You can go regen without much sacrifice to other stats, but you will fall a bit short on arm pen or extra deflect. You will not be weak though since skulker/glory set will naturally give u lots of arm pen. In addition once you start getting vorpal your damage goes up because you still maintain around 40% crit as well if you go dex/cha)
Another tip for getting the life steal is to not go with the conventional 4 piece skulkers, but do 2 piece skulkers and 2 piece glory set. This is not a hard tip to see though so I'm sure people going with this build already knew that one, but I thought id add it.
There is also a bloodied frostwolf pelt out there somewhere for a neck item that gives regen as well as lifesteal. This is probably from an epic or normal wolf den dungeon run, and most likely bind on pickup seeing as I haven't been able to find this on the AH either.
Just some quick tips. Might as well give them out now that the build is going public :P Plus I'm banking on everyone going Hunter soon regardless lol. Which is my plan too anyway since it will require more strategy/interaction/creative building to be good at :P
Seal of the Executioner from Pegasus Vendor no longer gives regen stat but critical instead.
There is a weaker version of it on Auction, which gives about 300+ regen, but I have no idea where its dropped.
Technically, the Seal of the Executioner from the seal vendor is critical now, yes. However, there is a Ring of Preservation that gives 408 regen and a defense slot available at the seal vendor, as well. Also, there is another Seal of the Executioner that gives ~384 (from the top of my head) regen and an offense slot that can be bought for 41k ad at the accessories merchant that is next to the Pegasus Seal vendor. The ad merchant, not the gold one. I don't know of many people who know about this ring. It only gives 100 less regen than the original Seal of the Executioner and is infinitely cheaper now.
I hope this helps! :cool:
This is correct. It is also worth noting that the 384 regen rings come with an offensive slot, while the 408 regen rings come with a defensive slot.
If I ever do come back to this character though after hunter release, I plan to swap out the 2 feats from the middle tree for extra combat advantage boost and chance to deal damage on non-crits for the feat from the top path which gives stealth per hit. Essentially it will perform as a permastealth build, only with extra deflect. Again, this is based off of the fact that CHA adds deflect and combat advantage damage. Since one would always be in stealth, it is essentially equivalent to putting the points in STR, only you get deflect instead of other unnecessary effects (I believe stamina regen speed and something else maybe?)
This video has inspired me to attempt it should I return after the hunter release :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ9TGxMqZg0
Really good damage on gloaming since the update. Looks nice especially for his only lesser vorpal and not even cracking 2k arm pen. Also, only 1.2k recovery. Still leaves room for deflect enchants for sure.
Seeing videos and actually seeing the spec in action are two different things. I must say, you were impressive. Good job!
What do you think of the new soulforged? I'm not sure what to make of it.
It has pros and cons, but I can't really say if it's better for this spec than the old because I never had a soulforged enchant. I level too many alts and never gave any of them enchants :rolleyes:
Swift Footwork
Twilight Adepth
Improvement Cunning Sneak
Nimple dodge (key factor Saboteur Paragon)
Sneaky Stabber (key factor Saboteur Paragon)
CHA is not a status bad, more woe would have to choose between him or DEX
About deflection is the best video sees how can I use this status in the defensive slot
Server: Rapier
Also, I am 30k hp rogue with 900 defence atm so... Is stacking pure hp better than deflect stat?
shy-nee@ryvengrothexplorer here! You may find me on gateway and give better recommendations if you wish
Thanks in advance.
WTB Class Reroll please
Yes.
I'm not getting my deflect from my gear, I'm getting it from enchanting my defensive slots with Silverys, feats, and racial bonus from being a halfling.
I would highly reccomend getting the regen gear with that kind of health you have it will be amazing
Well, yeah, I am tiefling and can't have +3% to deflect from my racial feats
Still, I am thinking of placing ability scores from strength to charisma. Will lose some damage but oh well.
WTB Class Reroll please
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,19i3iji:60000:6uu00:b0z51&h=0
After reworking ability score, enchants, and equipment, I have about 40% crit, 30% deflect, 10% lifesteal, 10% regen, 27k HP. This is with 4/4 Skulkers
Also Alysin, I noticed you dont use Elixirs except for Heroism. Foehammers not only adds the 300 deflect, it more importantly adds 10% deflect severity, which drops damage taken from deflections from 25% to 15%. Imagine that for an increase in your tankyness. Also, steadfast for defense, and wildstorm for crit chance and severity would be huge for this build.
Now, the fun part of this build is the different strategy's you could implement. I too, will be using ItC, Lashing, Impact..First Strike/Skillfull..DF/CoS. With this you get a massive opener and tremendous sustainability. However, 'Brutal Backstab' gets lost in this setup with the exception of the opener. This feat has so much potential it should and can be utilized more with two different setups. The fist one keeps everything the same, but swaps ItC with ShadowStrike. This leaves you the big opener, but allows you to get back into stealth for a 25% severity increast to both Duelists furry AND your second stealth encounter. So, you could stealth --open with Impact (first strike/BrutalBS), Duelists, ShadowStrike--ReStealth--Duelist (BrutalBS)--Lashing (BrutalBS). This of course assumes that your target is even still alive through half of that or multiple targets.
The other strategy would be to swap ShadowStrike for Lashing, keep ITC and Impact. Swap First Strike with Tenacious Concealment. This gives you a more sustained damage and incredible survivability. Humans with 4/4 Skulkers 4/5 improved Cunning Sneak would see huge benefits from this setup.
You have to be careful with that elixir. I do not believe it works as you expect if you already have a Vorpal. From light testing on my CW and GF, I do not believe it stacks with existing Critical Severity buffs. If anything it may even affect the range of crits available since on both my CW and GF I got some crits with implied base damage lower than that of the tooltip for that Power!
The defensive elixirs seem to work well though.
First of all, u are talking about adding some defense, i dont agree with that. Most of the things can still armor pen u for 100%, i really see no reasons at all for that.
Stacking deflect is fun no doubts, those lashing blades and ice knifes that should hit for 25k would hit for nothing, but its not like deflect will work all the time, u have about 60% chance of ur deflect being completely useless.
Stacking life and regen is far away better, will forever be far away better than stacking deflect. High hp is something that works and save u 100% of the time, not about %, luck, etc. And the more HP u got higher ur regen ticks will be.
I got 32k HP on my tr with 7 offense slots, yes SEVEN, i could go up to 35k or so easly if i want without changing much. Regen ticks of 1.5k, it can go up to 1.7k or so, its almost 9 sec of stealth + 4 of ITC, do the math
Beside that on ur videos u are just killing bad pugs(and a premade of pugs with guild tag), it dont really show nothing, and u would never be able to use this kind of power combination against any good team cuz u will get melted. Any kind of high level pvp requires shadow strike, its a fact, there is no other way to be a top TR without playing the "stealth warrior" build.
Ok now make a list of this small and clear facts :
As a high HP tr u can get about 10k life more than u currently have if u want. U will have more DPS as well (i got 20% armor pen with that regen, that life, and 7 greater tenes) either using tenes or regular armPen/power/whateverUwant enchants, u will get WAY higher regen ticks...
All that against something that has 60% chance of fail and do nothing? tsc tsc tsc..
I can do a friendly demonstration on the game if u want as im sure ANY TR on my guild would probably beat u 10-0 with the current setup/loudout that u are showing on this thread, or we can do it even more fun and play some premades to see how our stuff really works on the pvp :P
Hit me up if u want, u will know where to find me.
Blacksheep, <Enemy Team>.
*Edit -I forgot to mention, u can get about 25% deflect with the insane high HP/Regen build as well if u want ^_^
Meatball - Control Wizard
Criminal Cheater - Hunter Ranger
<Enemy Team> Guild Leader.
I have seen plenty of devastating top TRs, especially those from Lemonade Stand (past and present), who either do not use Shadow Strike or do not slot it permanently.
Apart from that, I agree your build in general is highly optimized for premades and, of course, we all know how very successful you are with it. I do not believe that this thread is intended to be for premades, though. Still, will be interesting to see OP's response.
I'm not even sure if you are trying to be serious with this post or if you really are as inadequate as your statements. There are too many holes in your response to go through all of them. You should know (or you would had you actually read the contents of this thread), that the build does incorporate the use of health regen. I also am not sure where you got the idea that stacking defense was portrayed anywhere in the current thread. We are all quite aware of how arm pen works.
Also, most of the deflection comes from feats, ability scores, and racial traits. Again, you would know this had you put even a minute into the design of the build. as far as your stats. 32khp with only 2 defensive enchantment slots, I'm also currious how you obtained 20% armpen using zero offensive slots and two seal of executioner rings (I assume you must have these considering you have regen and 7 offensive slots, right?)--Well, I have 27k hp, 33% Deflect, 20% damage reduction, 20% armpen, 9.5 regen, 9.5% lifesteal. So essentially I will be deflecting 1/3 off all attacks (in which armpen doesnt matter), and i have about the same offensive stats as you.
However, please enlighten us all on how you obtain 32k hp with 2 def slots, and 20% armpen without slotting.
Nah, bro, nah. We all was "devastating top TR's" without shadow strike months ago, as u can see on my old video of almost 3 months ago :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6nLETM70AI&noredirect=1
Up to 60k crits on PvP on lashing blade, impact shots of 12-15k, etc. Its not viable anymore today, everyone is stacking tankiness somehow, while still having good dps. If u dont kill with ur lashing and whatever else u are using, and u have NO shadow strike, what u gonna do? run on circles? Its not viable, it will not work.
About those "devastating top tr's from Lemonade Stand", Noone of them will EVER play an important premade without shadow strike, thats 100% sure, as i said, we all did it one day, months ago, not anymore.
And well, what the point of introducing an build to the public if its not to premades? I saw on his video that he is using Perfect Barkshield, a guy with perfect barkshield is not building his character to kill pugs.(And who does anyway?)
Meatball - Control Wizard
Criminal Cheater - Hunter Ranger
<Enemy Team> Guild Leader.
Lol.
Did u ever heard about 20 CON and radiant 10's? ;p
Yea 20% exactly armor pen, why would i lie? Lol, its not like i am a random unkown n.o.o.b, every top PvP player that play premades know my name.
Actually i had almost 33K Hp until 3 weeks ago or so, but i switched my neck/belt from HP/crit/armpen to Regen/crit/armpen, so right now i have "only" 31.9k.
How i got those stats? No secret bro, skulkers and any random neck/belt that gives u any random ammout of armor pen? lol
I wish that if u had 33% + deflect u would actually deflect 1 of 3 hits, u really think i never tried it? Its just not working like that, its %, its about luck.
Its very simple, something that its about luck vs something that works 100% of the time plus benefits other stats like regen as well.
And as i said on my first post, i can show whatever i say here on the game, talking is easy..
Meatball - Control Wizard
Criminal Cheater - Hunter Ranger
<Enemy Team> Guild Leader.
Once again, i do not have updated videos, i am using diferent gears/builds/strategy/powers/everything. (Im way better now)
We dont need videos, why videos when we can do it on live? i've being lazy to make videos as u can notice on my channel.
Get ur premade and lets play, u or anyone else on this thread, hit me up on the game, im always looking for premade since the game is so boring atm.
@donblacksheep
ps : if its sooo hard to believe that i can have such a good balance of stats, i dont mind of just going there and letting u inspect me on the game if u want.
Meatball - Control Wizard
Criminal Cheater - Hunter Ranger
<Enemy Team> Guild Leader.
My gear sheet now is much different then it was when I originally made this point. Somewhere in this post I made the comment that gear and builds, are ever evolving, and obviously mine has changed significantly.
I decided to try out regen in the last couple weeks, and its obvious why I changed.
I was stacking straight deflect and defense. Now I still have 33% deflect, but I added almost 9k more health, 10% regen, and brought my lifesteal up to 10% as well. My tankiness that I seen before, is twice as strong now.
My videos are with, and against premades. I generally Q solo because it seems its easier to find a decent match, so the majority of my videos are solo Q'ing.
Saying that my past gear set and choice of abilities against the TOP TR's I would get melted is a bit one sided however. I've beat every top TR that comes to mind, except you Black because I have only fought you in one match, and beat them all 1 vs 1 with my previous gear set, that's including BiS TR's, 7G-Tenes, Perfects/10's. It is however much easier now, then it was when I was just deflect.
Is straight deflect the way to go in the top level? I would say definitely not. It may help you in 1 fight, but premades are about living, not killing 1 guy then dieing immediately. Health > Regen > Deflect > Defense > Lifesteal in my opinion as a TR>
The comment about "having" to use Shadow Strike. I guess it depends honestly who you are playing. Having 10's perfects and all the fancy stuff doesn't mean you are a skilled player. There are quite a fiew TR's with that gear, that are laughable in PvP.
Lately I have been trying things I don't normally do, or use, and thinking outside the box so to speak.
I've been using ItC, Path of Blades and Shadow Strike, with Duelist Flurry and GLoaming Cut. Having a lot of success with it, and getting better at using that combination.
My normal set up now is ItC, Impact, Lashing. I switch out Lashing quite often for Shadow Strike. All depends who I end up fighting, if I'm pugging or in a Premade. Everything I chose to use is Situational for me.
Edit: I've also changed from a 2/2 2/2 piece, to using full Skulkers, as well as changing some of my feats around.
I guess my best advice to any TR that wants to be competitive against other top TR's is ask a lot of questions. Its ok not to be the best. Even if you think you are the best, theres going to be someone better, its just how it is. So take what you can from everyone you fight against.
Just use whatever allows you to have the most fun.
Then use http://gateway.playneverwinter.com and replace your name with his full name in the Character Sheet, e.g. Blacksheep@donblacksheep.
Having 30% deflect is ok, u dont really have to sacrifice THAT much to get it, but 40% + its too much..
As i said, i probably tried out everything that is possible to try out as a TR on this game, i had 30% + deflect, i just cant see it worth to spend whatever stats/items u need for it, but thats me, my own opinion.
U can easly get 25% deflect without anything extra, i just dont think the extra 5% of what u have to exchange into deflect to get that 30% + worth it, thats my point.
I am completely dependant on tenes to deal damage, are u sure?
I crit 7-10k impact shots, i am extremly good on duelist flurry, i would not say that i am dependant on tenes to deal damage.
ANYWAYS, with all the new stuff coming on like boons and artifacts, ill probably get my softcap on armor pen without using any darks, i really dont need any more defense slots, i can survive just fine, so its basicaly, Power/Recovery VS Tenes? easy choice
Power is kinda garbage imo, if i stack power/recovery what im getting, ohhh maybe more 1.5-2k crits top more on IS, and/or 1.7sec less CD on my powers? lol
Tenes will always be tenes.
ps : I am rich. I got rank 10's to swap if i do need them.
Meatball - Control Wizard
Criminal Cheater - Hunter Ranger
<Enemy Team> Guild Leader.
Yup and I totally agree. I had 41.8% deflect and it was obvious, think the biggest I ever took was around 19k from a perfect, and that was because I was proned. Problem I ran into, was sustainability in multiple fights back to back. Obviously not having any regen was getting me killed. So I changed. I'm at 31-33% deflect right now, without slotting any Silverys. I don't think I'll change my feats up and get rid of the 3/3 one for Deflect..atleast not right now.
Far as the Tenes, I know its not "all" your damage, but its an overwhelming majority of it. Against the squishier types and folks that aren't gearing defensively it'll be the same, but against someone who built themselves for defense. That tene damage is going to be very, very small. Me for example. I was fighting Kitty 1 vs 1, and winning with my previous set up of just deflect. She won more because she had the damage from Tenes, plus her regen. But now, after the supposed change, those Tenes will be but a scratch on me, if that, now that I myself am using Regen, and Barkshield.
We'll have to get together sometime here soon when Mod 2 and these changes come out. Would love to test some things doing 1 vs 1. Where is Khelzor(sp?) btw? Normally I get a couple 1 vs 1's against him during my play time, haven't seen him in fiew weeks.
Does regen stat recover percentage of your health based on your maximum hp or base hp?
Maxium Health. Which is why it is important when going for Regen, to make sure you have adequate health.
All combat log parses I have ever heard of on G.Tenes amount to 20-50% damage at most and it is only significant because of the burst, but hardly overwhelming majority, especially in premades where everyone is built ultra defensively.
If you do not know how to play, or your build or playstyle has bad synergy with or without Tenes, you will be steamrolled by anyone with a clue. You even said yourself that you beat most other TRs, even when they had Tenes.
Regardless, of what build he uses, Blacksheep is far better than most TRs I have seen. Also, the Tene nerf would affect all who have it simultaneously. So, nothing has changed relatively. I suspect some Tene users will switch to higher rank Darks though because the only difficulty they have killing targets are from tanky targets. They can otherwise kill CWs in their sleep and it is only skill/experience that enables consistently taking out other TRs.