I agree with the Tene enchant nerf, particularly about having it so that it doesn't fire off of anything other than at-wills and encounters. No more proc with dots.
I agree with regeneration. You're boosting heals outside of combat, when there's nothing happening to the player and he's just killed his enemy and run him off, while lowering in-combat. Makes sense.
Not happy with changing GG to a 10v10. Don't remove what's in-game, add to it. Like heart of the mountain. Like the idea of a new 10v10 map.
Would like to add the ability for multiple parties (like guild parties) to queue for larger event's simultaneously.
Like the changes for each class. GWF has me a few questions, though. Particularly the Unstoppable changes. As far as I can figure, it's theoretically and practically impossible to generate enough Determination to have unstoppable ready again before 5-10 seconds after the last pop. The internal timer seems very questionable.
Switching Unstoppable Recovery and Nimble Runner (especially when Unstoppable Recovery is obviously a sentinel build base point) would have an affect in the short future, but in the long run, would simply have us picking Great Weapon Focus and Deep Gash, or getting a 10% further tank boost on sprints as a point dump, and wouldn't help balance the build that much. It looks more like your trying to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of players of that build (maybe somebody in your guild you don't like, who knows), and less like you've got a legitimate reason for the change.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
I have perfect Vorpal bro. Im not even going to go into this post because it honestly is SO blatantly false that any pvper worth their weight will know that G Tene is the most OP enchant which BTW, doesnt sound like you know this, I have 7 GTE.
ok I go over what my pvp spec chars have as that seems to matter
gwf 7 g tene cw don't use tene gf don't use tene tr don't use tene dc(I don't play much as don't like it but no g tene
there all cn t2 gg mc geared all 60 this is not bragging this pointing out fact I play with and without g tene as seems I have no clue as I only have 7 of them
people have show you maths for barkskin and bloodtheft in other posts proving to you there easy counter all you do is open new thread every time u don't like what you see
and there are many good spec that don't use g tene at all for all class's that just as good if not better in pvp that people use
Not happy with changing GG to a 10v10. Don't remove what's in-game, add to it. Like heart of the mountain. Like the idea of a new 10v10 map.
Would like to add the ability for multiple parties (like guild parties) to queue for larger event's simultaneously.
Like the changes for each class. GWF has me a few questions, though. Particularly the Unstoppable changes. As far as I can figure, it's theoretically and practically impossible to generate enough Determination to have unstoppable ready again before 5-10 seconds after the last pop. The internal timer seems very questionable.
Switching Unstoppable Recovery and Nimble Runner (especially when Unstoppable Recovery is obviously a sentinel build base point) would have an affect in the short future, but in the long run, would simply have us picking Great Weapon Focus and Deep Gash, or getting a 10% further tank boost on sprints as a point dump, and wouldn't help balance the build that much. It looks more like your trying to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of players of that build (maybe somebody in your guild you don't like, who knows), and less like you've got a legitimate reason for the change.
Its not only completely possible for a GWF to go back to back unstoppable less than 1 second after being out of it, it actually happens all the time... I play a GWF and I can tell you its not uncommon. Against a 1v1 it wont happen that much but it still can happen if say a TR lashing blades you out of unstoppable. So hence the reduction on the determination gained from taking damage will lessen this a little, however the 2 seconds CD really wont affect most situations, just the few where it does happen. Sent get up to 90% DR in unstoppable. They also get quite a bit of temp HP in unstoppable as well.
Unstop Recovery is not in the Sent tree but its what most sent are using. Again it just make it so that other GWF builds a little more attractive. Losing 5% of temp hp each time you pop unstoppable, its not a huge deal but it adds up. Making it only attainable for other builds and making it so Sents only get what 15% Temp HP each time they pop it instead of 20% (I forget the exact math on it)
I actually think its not a bad tradeoff because deflect is very good. It then gives GWFs some type of "damage avoidance" while sprinting. My GWF has something like 34% deflect. So buffing that while sprinting means that its close to a 50% chance the damage will be deflected. I see that as a tradeoff and not a complete nerf. Most GWFs complain they have no way to avoid damage which is true, well this helps avoid some damage using a different mechanic than unstoppable spam. It also adds some skill level to the build as now you could time WHEN to sprint versus other classes to avoid taking bigger hits.
ok I go over what my pvp spec chars have as that seems to matter
gwf 7 g tene cw don't use tene gf don't use tene tr don't use tene dc(I don't play much as don't like it but no g tene
there all cn t2 gg mc geared all 60 this is not bragging this pointing out fact I play with and without g tene as seems I have no clue as I only have 7 of them
people have show you maths for barkskin and bloodtheft in other posts proving to you there easy counter all you do is open new thread every time u don't like what you see
and there are many good spec that don't use g tene at all for all class's that just as good if not better in pvp that people use
It doesnt matter what you have, you said I need to try things like P vorp.
Ive tried them and own them. That is my point.
Cool, good for you that you play without tenes... The math on barkskin and bloodtheft doesnt combat tenes ive tried them and its very situational.
I never said there arent good specs in pvp, I merely stated the BEST specs are all using Gtene setups, just ask lemonade stand
It doesnt matter what you have, you said I need to try things like P vorp.
Ive tried them and own them. That is my point.
Cool, good for you that you play without tenes... The math on barkskin and bloodtheft doesnt combat tenes ive tried them and its very situational.
I never said there arent good specs in pvp, I merely stated the BEST specs are all using Gtene setups, just ask lemonade stand
a lot builds use arp instead Gtene its hard for a lot class's to stack both and arp gives a lot big damage class more burst done right example
GF with arp can prone kill faster than one with 6 g tene
Cw with arp can kill faster than cw with 7 g tene Even HV cw has like 20% def
tr both viable seen both played well
GWF most are not using tene as there using t1 pvp set and rejen items and use sockets for def dodge to counter act the low def dodge from t1 but it heals a lot
DC think every single pvp one uses def dodge
all them set ups can use barkskin just for example and can be made stronger than g tene build with right gear spec player.
and its kind of insulting you saying all above spec's are not best because no g tene when people put a lot work into them and feel there stronger than most g tene builds there just examples not the only ones.
personally I would love to see you in game pm v pm I don't think u tried many specs at all I would not even use g tene now days I just invested in them before the stealth nerf on them.
its what I said before. Tenes makes ALL classes strong. if you nerf a GWF, a new trend rogue because of how they kill with tenes, you are not hurting the people who play alone with tenes, but you are hurting hundreds of people that cannot afford gtenes, or don't use gtenes by choice.
other than ArmPene kind of gwf that does decent dmg too is a tanker sentinel with cn sword and perfect vorpal, and instead tenes, all slots Critical strike. can get up to 45% critical chance, and like 85, 90% normal critical severity not counting the vorpal. Gplaguefire doesnt do a lot dmg for gwfs anymore, and terror works bad too in my own experience for gwfs, so perfect is a way to go even on sentinels with only 30ish % critical chance, adn they do good dmg.
if they nerf my gtenes one day, that is what I will do, because i tested it, and it kills OK without hurting much my tank.
players will always find a way around when things get nerfed.
just as the "1shot" rogues that got nerfed already found.
Blacksheep from my guild doesn't lose 1 x 1 for GWFs and he is a rogue
Leonidas is a GF and besides me i never seen him lose a 1 x 1 against a gwf too
there was a CW I fought once, and he almost killed in a 1 x 1. my hp at at 15% when i killed him.
I believe if i was 10% nerfed, i would never have a chance against him.
problem of nerfing the game and the classes just to please weak pvp players will eventually make the game not fun. good players will get tired of it, and they will move to a new a game. this has happened to many games.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
A lot of good ideas, unfortunately, OP classes will try to hold to their privileges. Such patchnotes would cause so many tears on the forums that the devs won't be able to do that.
also if you start nerfing stuff just because every one can not afford them you would need to nerf rank 10 enchantments as well as many can not afford them
price of items or value of items is no reason to nerf item or every one just has same items and there is nothing to work for or to aim for once you hit 60
I would also like to point out I know a lot people who have sold there g tene in ah to make better builds with rank 10s
A lot of good ideas, unfortunately, OP classes will try to hold to their privileges. Such patchnotes would cause so many tears on the forums that the devs won't be able to do that.
i believe the opposite.
the majority of players are bad pvp players. it is most likely they will be heard soon or late. but this will only ruin the game more and more.
the good pvp players will get tired of find a new way everytime, and the weak pvp players, they don't really love pvp and the game that much.
i ve seen people here in this forum complaining about pvp balance when they claim they only do pvp for dailies... LOL.
i just wonder if they will hear all the complaints at once. if they do it so, we will have
gtenes nerfs
gwf classes nerf
rogues nerf
cw?
i am just waiting for people start to complain about DCs soon.
its funny how many people always complained of GFs cc chain, and kill ability in pvp.
they didnt get nerfed really, and ppl found a way to fight them.
and now, the people who found way to fight them are the ones that the other people are asking for nerfs
this only makes me conclude the old saying:
"cant kill it? nerf it"
"it kill you? nerf it"
eventually there are people who want to look cool, and they think they are God because they copied someone's else build, and are doing nice in pvp that says their own class is OP and they need to be nerfed.
and they didnt even think about the build.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
also if you start nerfing stuff just because every one can not afford them you would need to nerf rank 10 enchantments as well as many can not afford them
price of items or value of items is no reason to nerf item or every one just has same items and there is nothing to work for or to aim for once you hit 60
that makes sense.
. I never ever had condition to afford ranks 10 haha, and I dont even bother since they are so expensive... i have only rank 8. so please nerf the ranks 9 and 10 enchantments.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited October 2013
Your suggested changes to GWF would kill what is left.. People seem to still complain about the sentinel GWF.. Idk why.. Before the last balance I agree I used to see super OP sentinels in pvp... Since that patch..I haven't seen a single one.. Maybe I have been lucky.. But it is obviously showing the balance either has a major nerf to sentinel GWF or it made most quit... If you come across one here and there so be it...
And you realise that there are other trees of GWF right??? Some of us chose destroyer because it can be better for pve.. Since that patch we are now super squishy.. We have suffered because ppl cry about sentinels.. Your changes would kill any chance a GWF has in pve.. GWF has very low damage.. It's single target damage is embaressing low..this would mean GWF would hardly generate unstoppable in boss fights in dungeons...
Your suggested changes to GWF would kill what is left.. People seem to still complain about the sentinel GWF.. Idk why.. Before the last balance I agree I used to see super OP sentinels in pvp... Since that patch..I haven't seen a single one.. Maybe I have been lucky.. But it is obviously showing the balance either has a major nerf to sentinel GWF or it made most quit... If you come across one here and there so be it...
And you realise that there are other trees of GWF right??? Some of us chose destroyer because it can be better for pve.. Since that patch we are now super squishy.. We have suffered because ppl cry about sentinels.. Your changes would kill any chance a GWF has in pve.. GWF has very low damage.. It's single target damage is embaressing low..this would mean GWF would hardly generate unstoppable in boss fights in dungeons...
Fail balancing
a lot gwf dropped gwf and changed class mainly because of pve nerf's in pvp there still 100% viable like all class's.
don't fear most us think same his notes suck and soon he will just make another thread trying force his ideas on others not hearing other peoples views.
he seems to think once people don't see his point he can make another post with same topics and people will not repost there views when there negative or don't see eye to eye with him.
personally I think he needs to play more class's and spec's and invest more time in them to see good and bad of all class's and how to combat builds he don't like
i believe the opposite.
the majority of players are bad pvp players. it is most likely they will be heard soon or late. but this will only ruin the game more and more.
the good pvp players will get tired of find a new way everytime, and the weak pvp players, they don't really love pvp and the game that much.
i ve seen people here in this forum complaining about pvp balance when they claim they only do pvp for dailies... LOL.
i just wonder if they will hear all the complaints at once. if they do it so, we will have
gtenes nerfs
gwf classes nerf
rogues nerf
cw?
i am just waiting for people start to complain about DCs soon.
its funny how many people always complained of GFs cc chain, and kill ability in pvp.
they didnt get nerfed really, and ppl found a way to fight them.
and now, the people who found way to fight them are the ones that the other people are asking for nerfs
this only makes me conclude the old saying:
"cant kill it? nerf it"
"it kill you? nerf it"
eventually there are people who want to look cool, and they think they are God because they copied someone's else build, and are doing nice in pvp that says their own class is OP and they need to be nerfed.
and they didnt even think about the build.
I rarely lose a pvp match unless my team is really terrible. I often get quite a lot of kills and a high score. I also know how insanely powerful conqueror GFs are, and i'm also aware of the fact that even a BiS gear DC with more than 32% DR can get one-shot by a stealthed rogue. How's that supposed to be fun when you can't do anything but being hunted and one-shot with the best gear you can find and high level enchantments by the damage + stealth class repeatedly? Unless you play the aforementioned op class, i mean. And when lashing blade doesn't do a one-shot kill, they can easily prevent you from doing anything with impact shot to finish you off. You can't do much since there's almost no CD on that ****. Oh joy.
I don't mind about lower GS characters, the issue is high GS. The game is far less balanced when everyone has a perfect vorpal, rank 8 enchantments and over 12k GS. There's just too much damage everywhere from everyone. My tank can two-shot a CW and if i can get to melee range (and believe me it's easy) he's dead for sure. I'm not sure it's normal.
And please have some dignity, don't tell me stealth has counters, because everyone knows it's impossible not to pay attention to the rest of the enemy team just to look for the rogue.
to me main issue is fact high gs people get put vs low gs people and people seem to think g tene are free or some thing. forgetting if they did not use g tene they would be using rank 9+ enchantments
if we get a ladder system and match making it would fix a lot these issues
This "patch" is far too tailored towards PvP with little to no consideration for PvE, with the exception of the CW HV fix (which should be fixed).
But also consider this.
- Nerfing Lashing Blade's crit: this would end up with most rogues just using Impact Shot, since after that nerf, IS' damage would definitely be superior to LB's damage. This would also make LB quite "meh" in PvE (not that you really should be using it much in endgame pve anyway...). Lashing Blade has a very high cooldown. Also, it's only really effective with good gear, such as perfect vorpal. Perhaps it should be the crit severity of the LB hit from stealth that could be changed - instead of being affected by weapon enchant, LB now crits with only 75% crit severity (base for rogues, 80% for half-orcs). This would balance out through gear as well, as it's usually the vorpal enchants that cause it to oneshot. Or just nerf vorpal in general as it's probably the best enchant for most classes atm, and nothing else is even really that close to it.
- Duelist's Flurry nerf would affect PvE quite hard. If your proposed change is for PvP (which it seems to be), I'd like to say that you're not considering both ends of the equation very well. DF is ridiculously easy to dodge in PvP, and anyone who tries to stand there and tank it has a l2p issue. That includes GFs blocking it (out of stealth).
- Shocking Execution can be dodged. It's just very hard to dodge because of the animation.
- I'm assuming you're saying "Shocking Execution will now only benefit in damage if target is less than 50% HP". SE does terrible damage at anything above 2/3 HP, but it's very good for killing tanky classes such as GWF and GF. A nerf like that would be alright, but honestly, the damage increase as it is doesn't really affect much until they're at about 50-66% HP, and that's on a crit.
- Nerf to DC? What?
- GWF nerfs - some of them are fine, but the proposed determination change would affect PvE too much. Again, your proposed changes are far too tailored towards PvP. The ideal solution here would NOT to put ahead all these changes, but rather make skills work differently in PvE and PvP.
- GF nerfs - it's not really the distance/height of the prones that need to be changed, but rather the duration they last (forgive me if this is what you're implying), and also possibly the range. However, I feel like the GF skills are fine as they are. If you keep out of range, you're fine, and if you decide to let a GF walk up to you with his shield, then that's your problem as you get prone-locked.
- GG - keep it as it is and add the 10v10 as a new map. I agree new PvP modes need to be added, but the current maps should be kept for variety's sake.
- That regen change would make regen on TRs pretty OP. Especially permastealth/semi-permastealth. Regen is fine as it is.
- Yes, tenebrous needs to be nerfed. However, not really sure weapon damage is the way to go about it as classes differ greatly in weapon damage ranges. It would be better making it a fixed value that scales with level, similar to how the Serene Runestones work (and Tranquil to an extent, but not with the current broken-ness of that particular enchant).
You have some very valid and good ideas but it's still far too tailored towards PvP with little or no consideration of PvE.
This "patch" is far too tailored towards PvP with little to no consideration for PvE, with the exception of the CW HV fix (which should be fixed).
You have some very valid and good ideas but it's still far too tailored towards PvP with little or no consideration of PvE.
I wont wall text respond, but I will post just MY thoughts... You may and probably disagree...
- If you nerf lashings 100% crit, but make it a shorter CD, I think thats an overall buff in DPS dont you think? I mean maybe it needs a more significant CD reduction but if you do the math on that, a PVE TR will have atleast over 40% crit right? Some have 55%+ due to stone etc. So the "gain" to stealth is a 50% crit chance, but if you can do a lashing blade way more often because of stealth, that wont make you lose DPS. I dont like using Impact in PVE because the animation time is much longer, the damage is less but thats me.
OVERALL: This doesnt effect PVE much, it may buff it, and it changes pvp quite a bit.
Duelists Flurry: Wouldnt having the attack speed improved 10% benefit PVE? It would make it easier to set up and easier to time, the only thing is you cant just face tank a boss like TRs can do now because it makes them immune to CC? I mean as a TR its pretty OP just sitting spamming and half the time I am in flurry?
- Shocking Execution - I have never seen someone dodge this when I play my TR and my guildies have not been able to dodge this, the animation is VERY telling hence why its easy when I play GF to block this, however, ALL other classes Dailies can be dodged or "out of range" where you then lose all your AP. So why do TRs get the special one here.
Also, Shocking does amazing damage. I have actually 1 shot people with FULL hp with this ability because it crits for 20k+ at FULL HP. It crits over 30k when someone is around half HP and I have had almost 40k crits at very low HP. That amazing damage PLUS lashing blade PLUS the in-avoidability of it... Its really OP. It needs to be toned down. I can get 15k NON crits with it... I mean... 15k NON crit.... No other daily except Ive Knife is that strong but Ice knife has the other issues I talked about and I have never seen an IK 1 shot some1 at full hp.
My Prop is that it only benefits from bonus damage if someone is below 50% HP. Thats it. No damage changes except that. So basically TRs have to actually time this ability for it to do nice damage, welcome to everyother class
OVERALL: NO effect to PVE, takes skill to use in pvp.
"DC nerf? who said ANYTHING about a nerf. they need a buff! Remove the reduced healing they have on themselves this HELPS PVE and helps PVP too... This should have happened a while ago...
OVERALL: BUFF TO DC in PVP and PVE.
GWF "nerf" What nerf? That you slightly decrease teh determination gained from taking damage but equal that out by dealing damage... I dont see how that would nerf PVE if anything PVE oriented GWFs would get a damage increase from this which would make up for the slam DPS decrease they got hit with a while back.
OVERALL: This gives more GWF builds suvivability rather than Sent are the only pvp way. This BUFFS PVE for GWFs and nerfs the 1 turtle pvp build SLIGHTLY, but not huge, just slightly.
GFs: We are talking the same thing here. Overall they are fairly inline (I hate saying that because I play the class as my main right now and dont want to seem self serving.) Except like I mentioned before, nerf the height and distance and you nerf the overall prone duration.
OVERALL: No change to PVE really, and a slight nerf in PVP for the class.
"GG - keep it as it is" - Yeah im cool with that, I just find it boring because its such a zerg fest. I have no problem with adding more, but I figured why not touch on the fact that most people dont like GG pvp? My perspective anyways.
"That regen change would make regen on TRs pretty OP. Especially permastealth/semi-permastealth. Regen is fine as it is."
Yeah well I still think a middle ground would be best here... Even a slight 25% reduction in combat and bring it back to normal out of combat. I mean... IN combat you shouldnt be full regening yourself. The other idea I thought was interesting is you regen a % of the damage you take. So you get to 10% and take 5k in damage, you heal for 500. This would make it really balanced...
"Yes, tenebrous needs to be nerfed. However, not really sure weapon damage is the way to go about it as classes differ greatly in weapon damage ranges. " -
Yes thats the point, Each class benefits differently. The I thought about it alot and I think it provides diversity to the enchant. I wouldnt mind it doing flat damage, but the idea is to make it scale of an offensive stat (like weap damage) rather than defensive.
OVERALL: GOOD THOUGHTS!
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited October 2013
^^^ nub please tell me how that isn't a nerf for GWF????
I play destroyer.. I'm already extremely squishy from the last balance patch.. We can't dodge or get immunities... Unstoppable is the only thing that allows us to be a melee class.. If you hadn't noticed both out aoe and single target dps is quite low.. So in what way will that help??? It doesn't make sense.. And at a boss fight with only single target dps.. This would probably cut unstoppable use in half.. We are already almost useless for this fight.. Now u want to make it worse.. Congrats
If GWF needs anything at this point it's a buff... Anymore nerfs would be absolutely rediculous
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited October 2013
Also mention that destroyers class feat is dealing 10% extra damage while unstoppable. So if I have to use my encounters to deal damage in order to use unstoppable.. Then I wouldn't have my encounters while its active.. If I have to wait for my encounters to reset I'm probably already dead...
Lol
Lashing Blade's DPS would be decreased because most rogues /should/ have around 50% crit chance and your proposed change is only 25%. If it were to be balanced, then the cooldown decrease should be 50% to match this. Not that LB should be used for DPS anyway.
The thing with DF's animation is that it's VERY long, and you still take equal damage while in it. Even a 10% increase in speed wouldn't be enough to compensate.
Shocking Execution is very weird when it comes to hitting and dodging. I was hit in the middle of Bloodbath the other day, which obviously shouldn't have happened. I believe Shocking Execution is a "lock-on" skill. As long as you are first targetted with it, it will still hit you (unless GF block). I've seen it dodged and I have dodged it, probably a bit of luck, but my speculation is that you either 1) be completely out of range (never tested this, you could probably try testing with deft strike) or 2) dodge at the time when the skill was EXECUTED, not when it hits. Again, I'm not sure how exactly it can be dodged but I've seen it happen. Ice Knife is just a lot easier because it's a cast skill.
Shocking only does good damage if it crits. On a non-crit it does something like 10-12k (more depending on HP). The only reason you would oneshot someone from full HP with shocking is if they're ridiculously undergeared/have <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> HP/you're very geared and SE crits. I'm fine with making it under 50%, but maybe instead of that, you could make it so that it has a decreased chance to crit the higher HP they are, and likewise, a higher chance to crit under 50% HP.
Also I misread your DC thing, thought you said to nerf their ability to self-heal, my bad on that.
As I said before, the determination nerf would hit quite a few GWFs pretty hard in PvE because they're pretty squishy believe it or not. And most GWFs don't output a lot of damage, only the very geared and well-played ones do (and most aren't). But as I said in my post as well in a diff section, the solution would be to separate how skills work for PvE and PvP. That would fix a lot of problems tbh. And QQing.
As for the GG PvP thing, it'd be nice to leave it there for the people who want it. Granted, as it is, it's just a horse race and ganking match (though I was having fun the other day with a couple of other TRs and WB bombing the other team :P). I think that maybe some mechanics of it should be changed (not really sure what), but it should still be kept 20v20.
As for regen, that'd be a better solution, but I still think it's fine as it is.
If tenebrous works that way, it'd be unbalanced across classes. Granted, CWs and TRs already would do less damage with tenes due to their HP difference to GWFs and GFs, but that's also because they don't sacrifice as much DPS as GWFs/GFs do to get that HP/regen. I'm not really sure about this part, but I still think a fixed value would be better balance.
^^^ nub please tell me how that isn't a nerf for GWF????
I play destroyer.. I'm already extremely squishy from the last balance patch.. We can't dodge or get immunities... Unstoppable is the only thing that allows us to be a melee class.. If you hadn't noticed both out aoe and single target dps is quite low.. So in what way will that help??? It doesn't make sense.. And at a boss fight with only single target dps.. This would probably cut unstoppable use in half.. We are already almost useless for this fight.. Now u want to make it worse.. Congrats
If GWF needs anything at this point it's a buff... Anymore nerfs would be absolutely rediculous
Maybe im not explaining this correctly.... So ill do it in plain English as simply as I can...
As of right now (feats excluded) GWFs gain determination from taking damage. My proposal is to nerf this by SAY (just a hypothetical number that is not final) 20%. So now you gain 20% less determination than you typically would. This would be a HUGE nerf for non sent GWFs. To combat this, you now GAIN determination from dealing damage. So now, instead of waiting to get hit a bunch to go unstoppable, you can sprint up, at will a few times and gain some nice determination for unstoppable.
The ONLY way this would be a nerf to its current state is if you were playing against a class that would completely kite you like a CW. Since youd gain less determination it would be a slight nerf in that one situation. If you saw my other comment about this, however, I asked to swap out 5% HP gained on activating unstoppable which is what 2600 for Non sents? You still gain temp hp and nice DR, but you would put those 5 points hopefully into a feat that gives you 10% deflect while sprinting, heck I would even say buff that feat to 15-20% so now you have a mechanic that takes skill and timing to use that can make you very very tanky... But while sprinting.
I dont see how that would nerf GWF in PVE since they are dealing damage quite a bit meaning they would be in unstoppable EVEN MORE than now... So, how is any of that a nerf? Its ONLY a nerf to PVP Sent builds and its only a SLIGHT nerf because they have to deal damage now to gain determination, they cant just sit and take the damage and run away. Also the 2 sec ICD would prevent Sents from going right back into it as soon as they pop out and say a TR lashing blades them, they SHOULD have to wait to pop it. I mean think about this,
THey activated it once and gained Temp HP, immune to stuns/cc and nice DR. They also healed 5% HP + regen ticks. THEN they get lashing blade crit for 14k? and BAM right back in, unstoppable again. Couple that with good regen and lifedrinker and that is what is OP. If you make a small kill window to counter it, well 2 seconds buys you SOME time to actually play attacks.
Again though, GWFs would have REALLY high deflect in sprint so GL dealing damage to them while they do that...
I see this as a tactical rebalance that gives the power to the player to play the class and not just a face tank roll face on keyboard mechanic...
Sprint would take skil lto time and now GWFs would think about using unstoppable at more opportune times in PVP. IN PVE, welcome to unstoppable MORE! How is that a nerf?
One of my problems with GWF in their current state:
Deflect counts against our unstoppable. I know other classes all generally have a pve build and a pvp build, and GWF is actually kinda balanced in that way (both builds suck for PvE, in general). But if you build a high-deflect pvp build, you will generate far less unstoppable than a high-defense build.
I'd love for there to be a way that deflect and defense builds generate unstoppable evenly. Don't rely on it for damage done, though, because sentinel does <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for damage.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Maybe im not explaining this correctly.... So ill do it in plain English as simply as I can...
As of right now (feats excluded) GWFs gain determination from taking damage. My proposal is to nerf this by SAY (just a hypothetical number that is not final) 20%. So now you gain 20% less determination than you typically would. This would be a HUGE nerf for non sent GWFs. To combat this, you now GAIN determination from dealing damage. So now, instead of waiting to get hit a bunch to go unstoppable, you can sprint up, at will a few times and gain some nice determination for unstoppable.
The ONLY way this would be a nerf to its current state is if you were playing against a class that would completely kite you like a CW. Since youd gain less determination it would be a slight nerf in that one situation. If you saw my other comment about this, however, I asked to swap out 5% HP gained on activating unstoppable which is what 2600 for Non sents? You still gain temp hp and nice DR, but you would put those 5 points hopefully into a feat that gives you 10% deflect while sprinting, heck I would even say buff that feat to 15-20% so now you have a mechanic that takes skill and timing to use that can make you very very tanky... But while sprinting.
I dont see how that would nerf GWF in PVE since they are dealing damage quite a bit meaning they would be in unstoppable EVEN MORE than now... So, how is any of that a nerf? Its ONLY a nerf to PVP Sent builds and its only a SLIGHT nerf because they have to deal damage now to gain determination, they cant just sit and take the damage and run away. Also the 2 sec ICD would prevent Sents from going right back into it as soon as they pop out and say a TR lashing blades them, they SHOULD have to wait to pop it. I mean think about this,
THey activated it once and gained Temp HP, immune to stuns/cc and nice DR. They also healed 5% HP + regen ticks. THEN they get lashing blade crit for 14k? and BAM right back in, unstoppable again. Couple that with good regen and lifedrinker and that is what is OP. If you make a small kill window to counter it, well 2 seconds buys you SOME time to actually play attacks.
Again though, GWFs would have REALLY high deflect in sprint so GL dealing damage to them while they do that...
I see this as a tactical rebalance that gives the power to the player to play the class and not just a face tank roll face on keyboard mechanic...
Sprint would take skil lto time and now GWFs would think about using unstoppable at more opportune times in PVP. IN PVE, welcome to unstoppable MORE! How is that a nerf?
U realise in pve the only thing that save you as a GWF when taking damage is unstoppable right?? There is nothing else that you can do.. U cant dodge or anything.. You can't cc... That's it so 20% nerf is massive and would likely make it that a melee class would be unable to melee at all
Now as destroyer I already gain determination by dps.. But to counter a 20% nerf on damage I would need something like a 500% buff on dps.. That's how big the difference is..
I'm sik of ppl crying about sentinel GWfs.. It's stuffed up all the other paths because of it.. We are beyond squishy now.. Because of posts like this...
And if you are crying about sentinels still then time to throw the game away
They aren't even that good anymore
Maybe im not explaining this correctly.... So ill do it in plain English as simply as I can...
As of right now (feats excluded) GWFs gain determination from taking damage. My proposal is to nerf this by SAY (just a hypothetical number that is not final) 20%. So now you gain 20% less determination than you typically would. This would be a HUGE nerf for non sent GWFs. To combat this, you now GAIN determination from dealing damage. So now, instead of waiting to get hit a bunch to go unstoppable, you can sprint up, at will a few times and gain some nice determination for unstoppable.
The ONLY way this would be a nerf to its current state is if you were playing against a class that would completely kite you like a CW. Since youd gain less determination it would be a slight nerf in that one situation. If you saw my other comment about this, however, I asked to swap out 5% HP gained on activating unstoppable which is what 2600 for Non sents? You still gain temp hp and nice DR, but you would put those 5 points hopefully into a feat that gives you 10% deflect while sprinting, heck I would even say buff that feat to 15-20% so now you have a mechanic that takes skill and timing to use that can make you very very tanky... But while sprinting.
I dont see how that would nerf GWF in PVE since they are dealing damage quite a bit meaning they would be in unstoppable EVEN MORE than now... So, how is any of that a nerf? Its ONLY a nerf to PVP Sent builds and its only a SLIGHT nerf because they have to deal damage now to gain determination, they cant just sit and take the damage and run away. Also the 2 sec ICD would prevent Sents from going right back into it as soon as they pop out and say a TR lashing blades them, they SHOULD have to wait to pop it. I mean think about this,
THey activated it once and gained Temp HP, immune to stuns/cc and nice DR. They also healed 5% HP + regen ticks. THEN they get lashing blade crit for 14k? and BAM right back in, unstoppable again. Couple that with good regen and lifedrinker and that is what is OP. If you make a small kill window to counter it, well 2 seconds buys you SOME time to actually play attacks.
Again though, GWFs would have REALLY high deflect in sprint so GL dealing damage to them while they do that...
I see this as a tactical rebalance that gives the power to the player to play the class and not just a face tank roll face on keyboard mechanic...
Sprint would take skil lto time and now GWFs would think about using unstoppable at more opportune times in PVP. IN PVE, welcome to unstoppable MORE! How is that a nerf?
only cw?
what about perma-stealth rogues, or rogues that know time their dodges with their stealth and itc well? there are actually rogues that dont try to be tankers and know how to play their class, so you are saying I deserve to be belt down against them because my unstoppable is op? same for CWs
what about gfs? there are actually GFs that also know to time their block and their cc chains very well, and these GFs, gwfs also hve a very little window to attack.
nerf unstopable this way you will do nothing but "kill the class" sir. because gwf will fight, guess who? only other gwf.
sprint is lower than you think, and it doesn't really "dodge". but i agree gwfs that actually know when to sprint, or use sprint to feint attacks like spin strike, or Indomitable strike do better than gwfs that do not know do it.
as lobo mentioned above, high deflect build = lower unstoppable rates. as you can see gwfs have to make huge sacrifices?
want to me draw an example why Unstoppable is OK, and gwf needs it as much as cws need their control skills and their dodges, and as muchs rogues needs their stealths dodges and itc?
remember when unstopable would have an activation bug?
and it wouldn't turn on even when you have your determination bar full?
yeah, let me tell you. it didn't matter how tanky you were, how good your gear were, how good your enchants you had. you were going down in seconds against anyone.
Without the cc immune, and the ability to block like gfs, gwfs are very very fragiles. just because they are meele classes. and seens people forget it, and rather to fight them face to face and asks for balance LOL.
now, with unstopable fixed, gwf can play well, and die and hold the ground as a good tank, but with their dps low. and against even teams, equally experienced and geared people, they are going down with unstoppable or not.
and dps gwfs with unstoppable or not, they are going down in PvP easy no matter what. destroyer or not.
let me explain you few things when you ask for nerf unstoppable. and if you try to do these, maybe you will do better against gwfs in PvP:
1> don't ever face a gwf in close combat if you are not other gwf or a gf
2> dont ever attack a unstoppable gwf unless you are safe at distance, and only with at wills.
3> don't ever waste your encounters and dailies in a gwf while he is unstoppable, if it has cc it will fail, and you will also waste dmg.
4>a good gwf will sometimes look like a coward, running away and building dete when get hit, instead fighting a good rogue face to face, and when he is unstopable he will have the sprint to rush to your face. and attack you.
5>try to time at least takedown cooldown, so you know better when to run/srpint/dodge away from it, or block.
be aware these things mentioned above and you will do fine. just as when a good gwf plays he will pay attention
when a rogue use his stealth, and their 2 dodges and itc, and try to use encounters only in this SMALL WINDOW of time.
when a gwf has to pay attention when gf has no block, and still not be proned to be able to use encounters as well.
just as gwf has to pay attention when CW used their 3 dodges too, and attack in this small window as well.
it is pretty obvious, experienced players will turn all these survivality skills into small windows to attack, and there is what differs good gwf, good rogues, good cws, good gf from the rest of you here complaining for nerfs. as well gear, enchants, build, feats, etc.
just as when I fight a rogue, I ha
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
1> don't ever face a gwf in close combat if you are not other gwf or a gf
2> dont ever attack a unstoppable gwf unless you are safe at distance, and only with at wills.
3> don't ever waste your encounters and dailies in a gwf while he is unstoppable, if it has cc it will fail, and you will also waste dmg.
4>a good gwf will sometimes look like a coward, running away and building dete when get hit, instead fighting a good rogue face to face, and when he is unstopable he will have the sprint to rush to your face. and attack you.
5>try to time at least takedown cooldown, so you know better when to run/srpint/dodge away from it, or block.
These points listed above are great advice for people, they should listen, however when you are playing a game that involves standing ina relatively small area for a long duration of time in order to eitehr contest or capture the point for your team, these options are not available and this is why the class needs a change.
Here is the interpretation/practicality of what you said:
1) "dont ever try and cap a point a GWF is standing on, if you do the best you can do is draw the match as a GF or GWF and try and contest the point as long as possible. If your a TR/CW/DC just run away because you cant get close enough to be ON the point and NOT be in close combat"
Point 2) If you see an unstoppable GWF, just stay away from them (and the point your trying to cap) because your at wills will do no damage and coupled with point 1 that unless your a GWF or GF, you shouldnt be in close combat. So basically, you cant do much.
3) Repetitive of point 2. basically run/dont get in close combat OR try and cap because thats considered close combat.
4) If you see a GWF running away, dont chase him because hell sprint towards you and take you down. So you thought he was retreating so you could cap the point? Nope, better just keep your distance.
Your advice offered no counters or points that show the GWF is currently balanced, you basically admitted in these points they are overpowered and since you play the class, and many do this, you want to strive to hold onto your class as is because who wants a nerf?
Now good players can time bursts in short windows. Its not impossible to do however you are still playing RNG with the insane deflect GWFs have. You act like its a bad thing when you deflect.. I mean you jsut took hardly any damage when you deflect so why the heck would it build good determination.
The fact of the matter is, its not hard for a GWF to build determination. In fact a Sent GWF can get his first stoppable at 85% that will last for four senconds, give you how much Temp HP? and heal you for 5% of your total HP. Putting you back at 90% base and then temp hp of 10% basically means your at FULL hp again for four seconds. That AND during that four seconds you gain over 25% DR which puts most Sents over 70% total DR if not more. Ontop of that, most have regen (which isnt much at that point) but also lifesteal and/or lifesdrinker and most Sents will come out of their 1st unstoppable with 90% HP or more.
Its FAR too easy to gain an unstoppable and from all my experience and gameplay footage I can show, its about 15% HP lost. 30% for a FULL unstoppable that lasts like 8 seconds and basically makes a GWF almost completely unkillable while in it, except for SE which ignored all DR. Think about that for a second.
Lets say a GWF is at 25% HP because he took a ton of damage as burst, he has a full Unstop meter. He pops that and it lasts almost 8 seconds at 90% DR. Well every 3 seconds he is getting 1600-2k in regne ticks, so almsot 6k healed from regen (4500ish or more) Then you get 8 seconds to attack which gives nice lifesteal, some Sents use restoring strike which heals 1.5k-3k depending on damage They gained 20% Temp HP (so almost 7k in temp hp) and full healed themselves 5% HP which on a 35k HP Sent is 1700. THEN add a lifedrinker, even a regular one, and youll add even more healing, add a pot just for fun and thats another 5k (smin CD though) But you can see, its VERY easy for that 25% HP Sent to now be well over 60%+ again. Which means another 15% loss for unstop OR 30% loss for a FULL unstop, it pretty much keeps you up 100%.
Now where it breaks down is when you have an extremely high burst from a lashing/IK/SE or GF perma prone.
A daily will WTF pwn any class though, gwf or not, so why should you base an arguement saying GWF are killable if you use a daily?
GFs cant perma prone you without it, TRs CAN lashing you for about 15k max (but again at 1/3rd chance to deflect) And chances are most arnt running perf vorps which means itll be close to 12k+ which is 1/3rd of most Sents HP pool.
If you take a 12k lashing, you back in unstoppable almsot immediately and again with the regen ticks/lifesteal/lifedrinker/restoring and very high DR.
So nerfing deter gain by 20% would mean a GWF Sent has to lose STILL only 18% to pop first unstoppable and 36% for a full unstoppable, If you then give deter gained for damage done across the board for all GWFs, then it only makes GWFs more squishy if you let yourself get kited around. You have mechanics to counter it well, like sprint and unstoppable still, Not to mention Roar+stunning flourish AND the fact that if you miss a takedown it has a 3 sec CD.
Id say its still no problem to play well.
My changes would also buff the damage put out from feats in the GWF Sent Tree to further balance the class.
99% of these threads are pvp-centric. this game is not pvp centric. this game will never be pvp centric. nerf this, buff that, balance this, fix this, fix that. i guess if part of your entertainment is to speculate on what the devs are working on or to create these wish lists... all the power to you. ultimately, the final word will never be the end user. and we will never have access to the internal list of what is actually being worked on. i have complete confidence in the developers, the leads, the directors and everyone else involved internally. you can point out everything that hasn't been perfect thus far in this game, but i'm also pretty confident that if it hasn't already been addressed, it will be.
99% of these threads are pvp-centric. this game is not pvp centric. this game will never be pvp centric. nerf this, buff that, balance this, fix this, fix that. i guess if part of your entertainment is to speculate on what the devs are working on or to create these wish lists... all the power to you. ultimately, the final word will never be the end user. and we will never have access to the internal list of what is actually being worked on. i have complete confidence in the developers, the leads, the directors and everyone else involved internally. you can point out everything that hasn't been perfect thus far in this game, but i'm also pretty confident that if it hasn't already been addressed, it will be.
game on!
Your right, this is pvp focused. I have been playing this game since OB and as a result I have farmed the PVE content until my eyes have bleed and then some. I mean how many CN runs can a guy go through before going insane?
That said, I would LOVE more PVE content, actual hard 10 man raids and such, but I dont see this happening anytime soon. Not to mention it takes something like 100 hours of coding for 30 minutes of gameplay.
PVP on the other hand, takes almost no coding for DAYS of gameplay. Which is why I am trying to get the DEVs to think just a tad more about pvp. I mean we have 2 5v5 maps and 1 20vs20 map. ALL of which are the exact same gametype, Domination... What about slayer? What about CTF? What about other gametypes? Isnt that a little lacking?
The other thing I have noticed is that PVPers are more likely to spend real $ on item upgrades. Noone buys a perfect vorpal to farm MC faster, but they buy perfect vorpals to hit harder in pvp. So you would think they would allocate a little resources to appease those players.
The combat in this game is VERY fun, that is why its popular and why the pvp has amazing potential. It wouldnt take much to really make pvp in this game excel ALOT! And it wouldnt take away from PVE.
I have been trying to think of ways to balance classes in pvp a little, while not changing pve much, and I think these changes are progress. Are they perfect? No. but I think its the right direction...
PVP on the other hand, takes almost no coding for DAYS of gameplay. Which is why I am trying to get the DEVs to think just a tad more about pvp. I mean we have 2 5v5 maps and 1 20vs20 map. ALL of which are the exact same gametype, Domination... What about slayer? What about CTF? What about other gametypes? Isnt that a little lacking?
this is based on what? you a coder? do you work for cryptic? or is this just your assumption because... it "seems" that it's not as difficult as pve content?
the simplified maps and tools you can access in the foundry are just a fraction of the tools the designers use to create maps. in addition to that, it's highly likely that whatever you guys dream up and put in these threads has already been written down and discussed. you guys seem to forget that these developers and designers are GAMERS just like you and have probably been playing as long if not longer than some of you. that's not to discredit anyone or to say that none of these ideas are considered, but as i stated originally... we don't have the final say on what is implemented. we don't have all of the internal information that cryptic has on which they will base their decisions on. sometimes those decisions are not popular... but these decisions are not up to us. and i'm not saying don't have these discussions, i am saying you should set your expectations accordingly.
this is based on what? you a coder? do you work for cryptic? or is this just your assumption because... it "seems" that it's not as difficult as pve content?
Because you can create 1 for yourself and people have even done this before, it takes much less time to make. I agree they use more things than in the foundary but not much more. Tell me what kinds of things take SO much coding time?
Ive even thrown ideas out like "make a pvp map event" where people design maps in foundry and then the top DEV picks get up on the PTR for people to vote on and test, the top 2 make it live...
How much coding to do that? Probably not 100 hours... BUt your right, I dont know, I just know what other people who do coding say and if you have the foundation (aka the map) in place, its pretty easily to tailor from there.
I know 100 hours is a roguh standard for 30min of quality gameplay. Even if its 1/2 that (which On average it isnt) still 50 hours for 30 minutes of gameplay. Well it would probably take them less than a week of work to get 1 new map in place in pvp. It also wouldnt take much to make a "slayer" gametype. I mean they already have a kill tracker.
It seems they really havnt put alot of thought into the pvp side of things, which blows my mind honestly...
he mentions they know we want more maps and such... seriously though why hasnt this been pushed up the pipeline? Most of the Zen/AD purchased in this game i would easily wager go to pvp...
And what did it take THEM to do that?
2 pvp maps... thats it... Compared to ALL the other content (which is pretty good) YOu can bet pvp is an afterthought in this game.
Since games are creations of creators, you can bet that the mind of the DEVs is similar to the game we have. PVE centered, Lore centered game. With a hint of PVP.
Well I would bet that if they did a major pvp patch, balance, new maps and gametypes you would see a dramatic rise in population again.
Comments
I agree with regeneration. You're boosting heals outside of combat, when there's nothing happening to the player and he's just killed his enemy and run him off, while lowering in-combat. Makes sense.
Not happy with changing GG to a 10v10. Don't remove what's in-game, add to it. Like heart of the mountain. Like the idea of a new 10v10 map.
Would like to add the ability for multiple parties (like guild parties) to queue for larger event's simultaneously.
Like the changes for each class. GWF has me a few questions, though. Particularly the Unstoppable changes. As far as I can figure, it's theoretically and practically impossible to generate enough Determination to have unstoppable ready again before 5-10 seconds after the last pop. The internal timer seems very questionable.
Switching Unstoppable Recovery and Nimble Runner (especially when Unstoppable Recovery is obviously a sentinel build base point) would have an affect in the short future, but in the long run, would simply have us picking Great Weapon Focus and Deep Gash, or getting a 10% further tank boost on sprints as a point dump, and wouldn't help balance the build that much. It looks more like your trying to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of players of that build (maybe somebody in your guild you don't like, who knows), and less like you've got a legitimate reason for the change.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
ok I go over what my pvp spec chars have as that seems to matter
gwf 7 g tene cw don't use tene gf don't use tene tr don't use tene dc(I don't play much as don't like it but no g tene
there all cn t2 gg mc geared all 60 this is not bragging this pointing out fact I play with and without g tene as seems I have no clue as I only have 7 of them
people have show you maths for barkskin and bloodtheft in other posts proving to you there easy counter all you do is open new thread every time u don't like what you see
and there are many good spec that don't use g tene at all for all class's that just as good if not better in pvp that people use
Its not only completely possible for a GWF to go back to back unstoppable less than 1 second after being out of it, it actually happens all the time... I play a GWF and I can tell you its not uncommon. Against a 1v1 it wont happen that much but it still can happen if say a TR lashing blades you out of unstoppable. So hence the reduction on the determination gained from taking damage will lessen this a little, however the 2 seconds CD really wont affect most situations, just the few where it does happen. Sent get up to 90% DR in unstoppable. They also get quite a bit of temp HP in unstoppable as well.
Unstop Recovery is not in the Sent tree but its what most sent are using. Again it just make it so that other GWF builds a little more attractive. Losing 5% of temp hp each time you pop unstoppable, its not a huge deal but it adds up. Making it only attainable for other builds and making it so Sents only get what 15% Temp HP each time they pop it instead of 20% (I forget the exact math on it)
I actually think its not a bad tradeoff because deflect is very good. It then gives GWFs some type of "damage avoidance" while sprinting. My GWF has something like 34% deflect. So buffing that while sprinting means that its close to a 50% chance the damage will be deflected. I see that as a tradeoff and not a complete nerf. Most GWFs complain they have no way to avoid damage which is true, well this helps avoid some damage using a different mechanic than unstoppable spam. It also adds some skill level to the build as now you could time WHEN to sprint versus other classes to avoid taking bigger hits.
It doesnt matter what you have, you said I need to try things like P vorp.
Ive tried them and own them. That is my point.
Cool, good for you that you play without tenes... The math on barkskin and bloodtheft doesnt combat tenes ive tried them and its very situational.
I never said there arent good specs in pvp, I merely stated the BEST specs are all using Gtene setups, just ask lemonade stand
a lot builds use arp instead Gtene its hard for a lot class's to stack both and arp gives a lot big damage class more burst done right example
GF with arp can prone kill faster than one with 6 g tene
Cw with arp can kill faster than cw with 7 g tene Even HV cw has like 20% def
tr both viable seen both played well
GWF most are not using tene as there using t1 pvp set and rejen items and use sockets for def dodge to counter act the low def dodge from t1 but it heals a lot
DC think every single pvp one uses def dodge
all them set ups can use barkskin just for example and can be made stronger than g tene build with right gear spec player.
and its kind of insulting you saying all above spec's are not best because no g tene when people put a lot work into them and feel there stronger than most g tene builds there just examples not the only ones.
personally I would love to see you in game pm v pm I don't think u tried many specs at all I would not even use g tene now days I just invested in them before the stealth nerf on them.
other than ArmPene kind of gwf that does decent dmg too is a tanker sentinel with cn sword and perfect vorpal, and instead tenes, all slots Critical strike. can get up to 45% critical chance, and like 85, 90% normal critical severity not counting the vorpal. Gplaguefire doesnt do a lot dmg for gwfs anymore, and terror works bad too in my own experience for gwfs, so perfect is a way to go even on sentinels with only 30ish % critical chance, adn they do good dmg.
if they nerf my gtenes one day, that is what I will do, because i tested it, and it kills OK without hurting much my tank.
players will always find a way around when things get nerfed.
just as the "1shot" rogues that got nerfed already found.
Blacksheep from my guild doesn't lose 1 x 1 for GWFs and he is a rogue
Leonidas is a GF and besides me i never seen him lose a 1 x 1 against a gwf too
there was a CW I fought once, and he almost killed in a 1 x 1. my hp at at 15% when i killed him.
I believe if i was 10% nerfed, i would never have a chance against him.
problem of nerfing the game and the classes just to please weak pvp players will eventually make the game not fun. good players will get tired of it, and they will move to a new a game. this has happened to many games.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Not necessarily, there's quite a few of us that chose non-Tene builds that perform just as good, if not better, than the Tene counterparts.
price of items or value of items is no reason to nerf item or every one just has same items and there is nothing to work for or to aim for once you hit 60
I would also like to point out I know a lot people who have sold there g tene in ah to make better builds with rank 10s
i believe the opposite.
the majority of players are bad pvp players. it is most likely they will be heard soon or late. but this will only ruin the game more and more.
the good pvp players will get tired of find a new way everytime, and the weak pvp players, they don't really love pvp and the game that much.
i ve seen people here in this forum complaining about pvp balance when they claim they only do pvp for dailies... LOL.
i just wonder if they will hear all the complaints at once. if they do it so, we will have
gtenes nerfs
gwf classes nerf
rogues nerf
cw?
i am just waiting for people start to complain about DCs soon.
its funny how many people always complained of GFs cc chain, and kill ability in pvp.
they didnt get nerfed really, and ppl found a way to fight them.
and now, the people who found way to fight them are the ones that the other people are asking for nerfs
this only makes me conclude the old saying:
"cant kill it? nerf it"
"it kill you? nerf it"
eventually there are people who want to look cool, and they think they are God because they copied someone's else build, and are doing nice in pvp that says their own class is OP and they need to be nerfed.
and they didnt even think about the build.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
. I never ever had condition to afford ranks 10 haha, and I dont even bother since they are so expensive... i have only rank 8. so please nerf the ranks 9 and 10 enchantments.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
And you realise that there are other trees of GWF right??? Some of us chose destroyer because it can be better for pve.. Since that patch we are now super squishy.. We have suffered because ppl cry about sentinels.. Your changes would kill any chance a GWF has in pve.. GWF has very low damage.. It's single target damage is embaressing low..this would mean GWF would hardly generate unstoppable in boss fights in dungeons...
Fail balancing
a lot gwf dropped gwf and changed class mainly because of pve nerf's in pvp there still 100% viable like all class's.
don't fear most us think same his notes suck and soon he will just make another thread trying force his ideas on others not hearing other peoples views.
he seems to think once people don't see his point he can make another post with same topics and people will not repost there views when there negative or don't see eye to eye with him.
personally I think he needs to play more class's and spec's and invest more time in them to see good and bad of all class's and how to combat builds he don't like
I rarely lose a pvp match unless my team is really terrible. I often get quite a lot of kills and a high score. I also know how insanely powerful conqueror GFs are, and i'm also aware of the fact that even a BiS gear DC with more than 32% DR can get one-shot by a stealthed rogue. How's that supposed to be fun when you can't do anything but being hunted and one-shot with the best gear you can find and high level enchantments by the damage + stealth class repeatedly? Unless you play the aforementioned op class, i mean. And when lashing blade doesn't do a one-shot kill, they can easily prevent you from doing anything with impact shot to finish you off. You can't do much since there's almost no CD on that ****. Oh joy.
I don't mind about lower GS characters, the issue is high GS. The game is far less balanced when everyone has a perfect vorpal, rank 8 enchantments and over 12k GS. There's just too much damage everywhere from everyone. My tank can two-shot a CW and if i can get to melee range (and believe me it's easy) he's dead for sure. I'm not sure it's normal.
And please have some dignity, don't tell me stealth has counters, because everyone knows it's impossible not to pay attention to the rest of the enemy team just to look for the rogue.
if we get a ladder system and match making it would fix a lot these issues
But also consider this.
- Nerfing Lashing Blade's crit: this would end up with most rogues just using Impact Shot, since after that nerf, IS' damage would definitely be superior to LB's damage. This would also make LB quite "meh" in PvE (not that you really should be using it much in endgame pve anyway...). Lashing Blade has a very high cooldown. Also, it's only really effective with good gear, such as perfect vorpal. Perhaps it should be the crit severity of the LB hit from stealth that could be changed - instead of being affected by weapon enchant, LB now crits with only 75% crit severity (base for rogues, 80% for half-orcs). This would balance out through gear as well, as it's usually the vorpal enchants that cause it to oneshot. Or just nerf vorpal in general as it's probably the best enchant for most classes atm, and nothing else is even really that close to it.
- Duelist's Flurry nerf would affect PvE quite hard. If your proposed change is for PvP (which it seems to be), I'd like to say that you're not considering both ends of the equation very well. DF is ridiculously easy to dodge in PvP, and anyone who tries to stand there and tank it has a l2p issue. That includes GFs blocking it (out of stealth).
- Shocking Execution can be dodged. It's just very hard to dodge because of the animation.
- I'm assuming you're saying "Shocking Execution will now only benefit in damage if target is less than 50% HP". SE does terrible damage at anything above 2/3 HP, but it's very good for killing tanky classes such as GWF and GF. A nerf like that would be alright, but honestly, the damage increase as it is doesn't really affect much until they're at about 50-66% HP, and that's on a crit.
- Nerf to DC? What?
- GWF nerfs - some of them are fine, but the proposed determination change would affect PvE too much. Again, your proposed changes are far too tailored towards PvP. The ideal solution here would NOT to put ahead all these changes, but rather make skills work differently in PvE and PvP.
- GF nerfs - it's not really the distance/height of the prones that need to be changed, but rather the duration they last (forgive me if this is what you're implying), and also possibly the range. However, I feel like the GF skills are fine as they are. If you keep out of range, you're fine, and if you decide to let a GF walk up to you with his shield, then that's your problem as you get prone-locked.
- GG - keep it as it is and add the 10v10 as a new map. I agree new PvP modes need to be added, but the current maps should be kept for variety's sake.
- That regen change would make regen on TRs pretty OP. Especially permastealth/semi-permastealth. Regen is fine as it is.
- Yes, tenebrous needs to be nerfed. However, not really sure weapon damage is the way to go about it as classes differ greatly in weapon damage ranges. It would be better making it a fixed value that scales with level, similar to how the Serene Runestones work (and Tranquil to an extent, but not with the current broken-ness of that particular enchant).
You have some very valid and good ideas but it's still far too tailored towards PvP with little or no consideration of PvE.
I wont wall text respond, but I will post just MY thoughts... You may and probably disagree...
- If you nerf lashings 100% crit, but make it a shorter CD, I think thats an overall buff in DPS dont you think? I mean maybe it needs a more significant CD reduction but if you do the math on that, a PVE TR will have atleast over 40% crit right? Some have 55%+ due to stone etc. So the "gain" to stealth is a 50% crit chance, but if you can do a lashing blade way more often because of stealth, that wont make you lose DPS. I dont like using Impact in PVE because the animation time is much longer, the damage is less but thats me.
OVERALL: This doesnt effect PVE much, it may buff it, and it changes pvp quite a bit.
Duelists Flurry: Wouldnt having the attack speed improved 10% benefit PVE? It would make it easier to set up and easier to time, the only thing is you cant just face tank a boss like TRs can do now because it makes them immune to CC? I mean as a TR its pretty OP just sitting spamming and half the time I am in flurry?
- Shocking Execution - I have never seen someone dodge this when I play my TR and my guildies have not been able to dodge this, the animation is VERY telling hence why its easy when I play GF to block this, however, ALL other classes Dailies can be dodged or "out of range" where you then lose all your AP. So why do TRs get the special one here.
Also, Shocking does amazing damage. I have actually 1 shot people with FULL hp with this ability because it crits for 20k+ at FULL HP. It crits over 30k when someone is around half HP and I have had almost 40k crits at very low HP. That amazing damage PLUS lashing blade PLUS the in-avoidability of it... Its really OP. It needs to be toned down. I can get 15k NON crits with it... I mean... 15k NON crit.... No other daily except Ive Knife is that strong but Ice knife has the other issues I talked about and I have never seen an IK 1 shot some1 at full hp.
My Prop is that it only benefits from bonus damage if someone is below 50% HP. Thats it. No damage changes except that. So basically TRs have to actually time this ability for it to do nice damage, welcome to everyother class
OVERALL: NO effect to PVE, takes skill to use in pvp.
"DC nerf? who said ANYTHING about a nerf. they need a buff! Remove the reduced healing they have on themselves this HELPS PVE and helps PVP too... This should have happened a while ago...
OVERALL: BUFF TO DC in PVP and PVE.
GWF "nerf" What nerf? That you slightly decrease teh determination gained from taking damage but equal that out by dealing damage... I dont see how that would nerf PVE if anything PVE oriented GWFs would get a damage increase from this which would make up for the slam DPS decrease they got hit with a while back.
OVERALL: This gives more GWF builds suvivability rather than Sent are the only pvp way. This BUFFS PVE for GWFs and nerfs the 1 turtle pvp build SLIGHTLY, but not huge, just slightly.
GFs: We are talking the same thing here. Overall they are fairly inline (I hate saying that because I play the class as my main right now and dont want to seem self serving.) Except like I mentioned before, nerf the height and distance and you nerf the overall prone duration.
OVERALL: No change to PVE really, and a slight nerf in PVP for the class.
"GG - keep it as it is" - Yeah im cool with that, I just find it boring because its such a zerg fest. I have no problem with adding more, but I figured why not touch on the fact that most people dont like GG pvp? My perspective anyways.
"That regen change would make regen on TRs pretty OP. Especially permastealth/semi-permastealth. Regen is fine as it is."
Yeah well I still think a middle ground would be best here... Even a slight 25% reduction in combat and bring it back to normal out of combat. I mean... IN combat you shouldnt be full regening yourself. The other idea I thought was interesting is you regen a % of the damage you take. So you get to 10% and take 5k in damage, you heal for 500. This would make it really balanced...
"Yes, tenebrous needs to be nerfed. However, not really sure weapon damage is the way to go about it as classes differ greatly in weapon damage ranges. " -
Yes thats the point, Each class benefits differently. The I thought about it alot and I think it provides diversity to the enchant. I wouldnt mind it doing flat damage, but the idea is to make it scale of an offensive stat (like weap damage) rather than defensive.
OVERALL: GOOD THOUGHTS!
I play destroyer.. I'm already extremely squishy from the last balance patch.. We can't dodge or get immunities... Unstoppable is the only thing that allows us to be a melee class.. If you hadn't noticed both out aoe and single target dps is quite low.. So in what way will that help??? It doesn't make sense.. And at a boss fight with only single target dps.. This would probably cut unstoppable use in half.. We are already almost useless for this fight.. Now u want to make it worse.. Congrats
If GWF needs anything at this point it's a buff... Anymore nerfs would be absolutely rediculous
Lol
The thing with DF's animation is that it's VERY long, and you still take equal damage while in it. Even a 10% increase in speed wouldn't be enough to compensate.
Shocking Execution is very weird when it comes to hitting and dodging. I was hit in the middle of Bloodbath the other day, which obviously shouldn't have happened. I believe Shocking Execution is a "lock-on" skill. As long as you are first targetted with it, it will still hit you (unless GF block). I've seen it dodged and I have dodged it, probably a bit of luck, but my speculation is that you either 1) be completely out of range (never tested this, you could probably try testing with deft strike) or 2) dodge at the time when the skill was EXECUTED, not when it hits. Again, I'm not sure how exactly it can be dodged but I've seen it happen. Ice Knife is just a lot easier because it's a cast skill.
Shocking only does good damage if it crits. On a non-crit it does something like 10-12k (more depending on HP). The only reason you would oneshot someone from full HP with shocking is if they're ridiculously undergeared/have <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> HP/you're very geared and SE crits. I'm fine with making it under 50%, but maybe instead of that, you could make it so that it has a decreased chance to crit the higher HP they are, and likewise, a higher chance to crit under 50% HP.
Also I misread your DC thing, thought you said to nerf their ability to self-heal, my bad on that.
As I said before, the determination nerf would hit quite a few GWFs pretty hard in PvE because they're pretty squishy believe it or not. And most GWFs don't output a lot of damage, only the very geared and well-played ones do (and most aren't). But as I said in my post as well in a diff section, the solution would be to separate how skills work for PvE and PvP. That would fix a lot of problems tbh. And QQing.
As for the GG PvP thing, it'd be nice to leave it there for the people who want it. Granted, as it is, it's just a horse race and ganking match (though I was having fun the other day with a couple of other TRs and WB bombing the other team :P). I think that maybe some mechanics of it should be changed (not really sure what), but it should still be kept 20v20.
As for regen, that'd be a better solution, but I still think it's fine as it is.
If tenebrous works that way, it'd be unbalanced across classes. Granted, CWs and TRs already would do less damage with tenes due to their HP difference to GWFs and GFs, but that's also because they don't sacrifice as much DPS as GWFs/GFs do to get that HP/regen. I'm not really sure about this part, but I still think a fixed value would be better balance.
Maybe im not explaining this correctly.... So ill do it in plain English as simply as I can...
As of right now (feats excluded) GWFs gain determination from taking damage. My proposal is to nerf this by SAY (just a hypothetical number that is not final) 20%. So now you gain 20% less determination than you typically would. This would be a HUGE nerf for non sent GWFs. To combat this, you now GAIN determination from dealing damage. So now, instead of waiting to get hit a bunch to go unstoppable, you can sprint up, at will a few times and gain some nice determination for unstoppable.
The ONLY way this would be a nerf to its current state is if you were playing against a class that would completely kite you like a CW. Since youd gain less determination it would be a slight nerf in that one situation. If you saw my other comment about this, however, I asked to swap out 5% HP gained on activating unstoppable which is what 2600 for Non sents? You still gain temp hp and nice DR, but you would put those 5 points hopefully into a feat that gives you 10% deflect while sprinting, heck I would even say buff that feat to 15-20% so now you have a mechanic that takes skill and timing to use that can make you very very tanky... But while sprinting.
I dont see how that would nerf GWF in PVE since they are dealing damage quite a bit meaning they would be in unstoppable EVEN MORE than now... So, how is any of that a nerf? Its ONLY a nerf to PVP Sent builds and its only a SLIGHT nerf because they have to deal damage now to gain determination, they cant just sit and take the damage and run away. Also the 2 sec ICD would prevent Sents from going right back into it as soon as they pop out and say a TR lashing blades them, they SHOULD have to wait to pop it. I mean think about this,
THey activated it once and gained Temp HP, immune to stuns/cc and nice DR. They also healed 5% HP + regen ticks. THEN they get lashing blade crit for 14k? and BAM right back in, unstoppable again. Couple that with good regen and lifedrinker and that is what is OP. If you make a small kill window to counter it, well 2 seconds buys you SOME time to actually play attacks.
Again though, GWFs would have REALLY high deflect in sprint so GL dealing damage to them while they do that...
I see this as a tactical rebalance that gives the power to the player to play the class and not just a face tank roll face on keyboard mechanic...
Sprint would take skil lto time and now GWFs would think about using unstoppable at more opportune times in PVP. IN PVE, welcome to unstoppable MORE! How is that a nerf?
Deflect counts against our unstoppable. I know other classes all generally have a pve build and a pvp build, and GWF is actually kinda balanced in that way (both builds suck for PvE, in general). But if you build a high-deflect pvp build, you will generate far less unstoppable than a high-defense build.
I'd love for there to be a way that deflect and defense builds generate unstoppable evenly. Don't rely on it for damage done, though, because sentinel does <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for damage.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
U realise in pve the only thing that save you as a GWF when taking damage is unstoppable right?? There is nothing else that you can do.. U cant dodge or anything.. You can't cc... That's it so 20% nerf is massive and would likely make it that a melee class would be unable to melee at all
Now as destroyer I already gain determination by dps.. But to counter a 20% nerf on damage I would need something like a 500% buff on dps.. That's how big the difference is..
I'm sik of ppl crying about sentinel GWfs.. It's stuffed up all the other paths because of it.. We are beyond squishy now.. Because of posts like this...
And if you are crying about sentinels still then time to throw the game away
They aren't even that good anymore
only cw?
what about perma-stealth rogues, or rogues that know time their dodges with their stealth and itc well? there are actually rogues that dont try to be tankers and know how to play their class, so you are saying I deserve to be belt down against them because my unstoppable is op? same for CWs
what about gfs? there are actually GFs that also know to time their block and their cc chains very well, and these GFs, gwfs also hve a very little window to attack.
nerf unstopable this way you will do nothing but "kill the class" sir. because gwf will fight, guess who? only other gwf.
sprint is lower than you think, and it doesn't really "dodge". but i agree gwfs that actually know when to sprint, or use sprint to feint attacks like spin strike, or Indomitable strike do better than gwfs that do not know do it.
as lobo mentioned above, high deflect build = lower unstoppable rates. as you can see gwfs have to make huge sacrifices?
want to me draw an example why Unstoppable is OK, and gwf needs it as much as cws need their control skills and their dodges, and as muchs rogues needs their stealths dodges and itc?
remember when unstopable would have an activation bug?
and it wouldn't turn on even when you have your determination bar full?
yeah, let me tell you. it didn't matter how tanky you were, how good your gear were, how good your enchants you had. you were going down in seconds against anyone.
Without the cc immune, and the ability to block like gfs, gwfs are very very fragiles. just because they are meele classes. and seens people forget it, and rather to fight them face to face and asks for balance LOL.
now, with unstopable fixed, gwf can play well, and die and hold the ground as a good tank, but with their dps low. and against even teams, equally experienced and geared people, they are going down with unstoppable or not.
and dps gwfs with unstoppable or not, they are going down in PvP easy no matter what. destroyer or not.
let me explain you few things when you ask for nerf unstoppable. and if you try to do these, maybe you will do better against gwfs in PvP:
1> don't ever face a gwf in close combat if you are not other gwf or a gf
2> dont ever attack a unstoppable gwf unless you are safe at distance, and only with at wills.
3> don't ever waste your encounters and dailies in a gwf while he is unstoppable, if it has cc it will fail, and you will also waste dmg.
4>a good gwf will sometimes look like a coward, running away and building dete when get hit, instead fighting a good rogue face to face, and when he is unstopable he will have the sprint to rush to your face. and attack you.
5>try to time at least takedown cooldown, so you know better when to run/srpint/dodge away from it, or block.
be aware these things mentioned above and you will do fine. just as when a good gwf plays he will pay attention
when a rogue use his stealth, and their 2 dodges and itc, and try to use encounters only in this SMALL WINDOW of time.
when a gwf has to pay attention when gf has no block, and still not be proned to be able to use encounters as well.
just as gwf has to pay attention when CW used their 3 dodges too, and attack in this small window as well.
it is pretty obvious, experienced players will turn all these survivality skills into small windows to attack, and there is what differs good gwf, good rogues, good cws, good gf from the rest of you here complaining for nerfs. as well gear, enchants, build, feats, etc.
just as when I fight a rogue, I ha
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
These points listed above are great advice for people, they should listen, however when you are playing a game that involves standing ina relatively small area for a long duration of time in order to eitehr contest or capture the point for your team, these options are not available and this is why the class needs a change.
Here is the interpretation/practicality of what you said:
1) "dont ever try and cap a point a GWF is standing on, if you do the best you can do is draw the match as a GF or GWF and try and contest the point as long as possible. If your a TR/CW/DC just run away because you cant get close enough to be ON the point and NOT be in close combat"
Point 2) If you see an unstoppable GWF, just stay away from them (and the point your trying to cap) because your at wills will do no damage and coupled with point 1 that unless your a GWF or GF, you shouldnt be in close combat. So basically, you cant do much.
3) Repetitive of point 2. basically run/dont get in close combat OR try and cap because thats considered close combat.
4) If you see a GWF running away, dont chase him because hell sprint towards you and take you down. So you thought he was retreating so you could cap the point? Nope, better just keep your distance.
Your advice offered no counters or points that show the GWF is currently balanced, you basically admitted in these points they are overpowered and since you play the class, and many do this, you want to strive to hold onto your class as is because who wants a nerf?
Now good players can time bursts in short windows. Its not impossible to do however you are still playing RNG with the insane deflect GWFs have. You act like its a bad thing when you deflect.. I mean you jsut took hardly any damage when you deflect so why the heck would it build good determination.
The fact of the matter is, its not hard for a GWF to build determination. In fact a Sent GWF can get his first stoppable at 85% that will last for four senconds, give you how much Temp HP? and heal you for 5% of your total HP. Putting you back at 90% base and then temp hp of 10% basically means your at FULL hp again for four seconds. That AND during that four seconds you gain over 25% DR which puts most Sents over 70% total DR if not more. Ontop of that, most have regen (which isnt much at that point) but also lifesteal and/or lifesdrinker and most Sents will come out of their 1st unstoppable with 90% HP or more.
Its FAR too easy to gain an unstoppable and from all my experience and gameplay footage I can show, its about 15% HP lost. 30% for a FULL unstoppable that lasts like 8 seconds and basically makes a GWF almost completely unkillable while in it, except for SE which ignored all DR. Think about that for a second.
Lets say a GWF is at 25% HP because he took a ton of damage as burst, he has a full Unstop meter. He pops that and it lasts almost 8 seconds at 90% DR. Well every 3 seconds he is getting 1600-2k in regne ticks, so almsot 6k healed from regen (4500ish or more) Then you get 8 seconds to attack which gives nice lifesteal, some Sents use restoring strike which heals 1.5k-3k depending on damage They gained 20% Temp HP (so almost 7k in temp hp) and full healed themselves 5% HP which on a 35k HP Sent is 1700. THEN add a lifedrinker, even a regular one, and youll add even more healing, add a pot just for fun and thats another 5k (smin CD though) But you can see, its VERY easy for that 25% HP Sent to now be well over 60%+ again. Which means another 15% loss for unstop OR 30% loss for a FULL unstop, it pretty much keeps you up 100%.
Now where it breaks down is when you have an extremely high burst from a lashing/IK/SE or GF perma prone.
A daily will WTF pwn any class though, gwf or not, so why should you base an arguement saying GWF are killable if you use a daily?
GFs cant perma prone you without it, TRs CAN lashing you for about 15k max (but again at 1/3rd chance to deflect) And chances are most arnt running perf vorps which means itll be close to 12k+ which is 1/3rd of most Sents HP pool.
If you take a 12k lashing, you back in unstoppable almsot immediately and again with the regen ticks/lifesteal/lifedrinker/restoring and very high DR.
So nerfing deter gain by 20% would mean a GWF Sent has to lose STILL only 18% to pop first unstoppable and 36% for a full unstoppable, If you then give deter gained for damage done across the board for all GWFs, then it only makes GWFs more squishy if you let yourself get kited around. You have mechanics to counter it well, like sprint and unstoppable still, Not to mention Roar+stunning flourish AND the fact that if you miss a takedown it has a 3 sec CD.
Id say its still no problem to play well.
My changes would also buff the damage put out from feats in the GWF Sent Tree to further balance the class.
game on!
Your right, this is pvp focused. I have been playing this game since OB and as a result I have farmed the PVE content until my eyes have bleed and then some. I mean how many CN runs can a guy go through before going insane?
That said, I would LOVE more PVE content, actual hard 10 man raids and such, but I dont see this happening anytime soon. Not to mention it takes something like 100 hours of coding for 30 minutes of gameplay.
PVP on the other hand, takes almost no coding for DAYS of gameplay. Which is why I am trying to get the DEVs to think just a tad more about pvp. I mean we have 2 5v5 maps and 1 20vs20 map. ALL of which are the exact same gametype, Domination... What about slayer? What about CTF? What about other gametypes? Isnt that a little lacking?
The other thing I have noticed is that PVPers are more likely to spend real $ on item upgrades. Noone buys a perfect vorpal to farm MC faster, but they buy perfect vorpals to hit harder in pvp. So you would think they would allocate a little resources to appease those players.
The combat in this game is VERY fun, that is why its popular and why the pvp has amazing potential. It wouldnt take much to really make pvp in this game excel ALOT! And it wouldnt take away from PVE.
I have been trying to think of ways to balance classes in pvp a little, while not changing pve much, and I think these changes are progress. Are they perfect? No. but I think its the right direction...
this is based on what? you a coder? do you work for cryptic? or is this just your assumption because... it "seems" that it's not as difficult as pve content?
the simplified maps and tools you can access in the foundry are just a fraction of the tools the designers use to create maps. in addition to that, it's highly likely that whatever you guys dream up and put in these threads has already been written down and discussed. you guys seem to forget that these developers and designers are GAMERS just like you and have probably been playing as long if not longer than some of you. that's not to discredit anyone or to say that none of these ideas are considered, but as i stated originally... we don't have the final say on what is implemented. we don't have all of the internal information that cryptic has on which they will base their decisions on. sometimes those decisions are not popular... but these decisions are not up to us. and i'm not saying don't have these discussions, i am saying you should set your expectations accordingly.
Because you can create 1 for yourself and people have even done this before, it takes much less time to make. I agree they use more things than in the foundary but not much more. Tell me what kinds of things take SO much coding time?
Ive even thrown ideas out like "make a pvp map event" where people design maps in foundry and then the top DEV picks get up on the PTR for people to vote on and test, the top 2 make it live...
How much coding to do that? Probably not 100 hours... BUt your right, I dont know, I just know what other people who do coding say and if you have the foundation (aka the map) in place, its pretty easily to tailor from there.
I know 100 hours is a roguh standard for 30min of quality gameplay. Even if its 1/2 that (which On average it isnt) still 50 hours for 30 minutes of gameplay. Well it would probably take them less than a week of work to get 1 new map in place in pvp. It also wouldnt take much to make a "slayer" gametype. I mean they already have a kill tracker.
YOur right, we dont have all the info and they may have discussed this, however, based on things like this:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/09/25/neverwinters-velasquez-on-lockboxes-foundry-and-module-2/
It seems they really havnt put alot of thought into the pvp side of things, which blows my mind honestly...
he mentions they know we want more maps and such... seriously though why hasnt this been pushed up the pipeline? Most of the Zen/AD purchased in this game i would easily wager go to pvp...
And what did it take THEM to do that?
2 pvp maps... thats it... Compared to ALL the other content (which is pretty good) YOu can bet pvp is an afterthought in this game.
Since games are creations of creators, you can bet that the mind of the DEVs is similar to the game we have. PVE centered, Lore centered game. With a hint of PVP.
Well I would bet that if they did a major pvp patch, balance, new maps and gametypes you would see a dramatic rise in population again.